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 exodusi1
Joined: 8/19/2006
Msg: 177
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The Hillraisers just won't foldPage 6 of 26    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26)
Just so it is answered in both places, not to be rude.

http://news.electoral-vote.com/
this is the one I go by, but I conceed yours is a great and unbiased source!
 ManeRider
Joined: 5/22/2005
Msg: 178
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The Hillraisers just won't fold
Posted: 8/7/2008 3:04:51 PM

http://news.electoral-vote.com/
this is the one I go by, but I conceed yours is a great and unbiased source!

As I recall, Ga went to Obama in the primaries so I dont' quite understand why npr is showing them being a red state. I agree, npr is a very unbiased source, but there seems some contradiction.
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 179
The Hillraisers just won't fold
Posted: 8/7/2008 3:26:31 PM
For the same reason California is a blue state even though McCain won the primary there. Georgia is going to go Republican in 2008, same as it's done for decades.
 ManeRider
Joined: 5/22/2005
Msg: 180
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The Hillraisers just won't fold
Posted: 8/7/2008 3:34:29 PM
well fvk me...lol

I have to wonder, though.... Ga has a lot of blacks in the population that would otherwise not vote. My thoughts might be they'll actually show up and vote, no?
Edit to Add:
Newsflash (sort of) From Shieldvulf

Sometimes you folks crack me all the way up. The reason the red 'n blue map looks so red is that the red states are mostly empty space! American population centers are in the blue states, which is why they get more representatives and more electors.
If only cattle and sheep could vote, Republicans might have a prayer this year. But, until then, not.

Cheers!

Vulf

 exodusi1
Joined: 8/19/2006
Msg: 181
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The Hillraisers just won't fold
Posted: 8/7/2008 3:50:35 PM
The greater the African~American vote, the Bluer the state will be. Republicans know this, that's why they suppress the black vote.
 exodusi1
Joined: 8/19/2006
Msg: 182
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The Hillraisers just won't fold
Posted: 8/7/2008 3:54:40 PM
We don't suppress the military vote. There are almsot as many Democratic votes as republican in the military. it is about 55-45. Not enough to want to suppress. Besides, we are about getting and counting ALL the votes. We sue to count votes, republicans sue to prevent the counts. BIG DIFFERENCE!
 exodusi1
Joined: 8/19/2006
Msg: 183
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The Hillraisers just won't fold
Posted: 8/7/2008 4:31:07 PM
I don't have a source for it, however, the African~American population tends to vote over 90% Democrat, the military is largely African American. I also know from personal experience, though that is not a solid reference. I am guestimating, based on my knowledge of the military, not exactly scientific. However, we aren't afraid to lose fair, we just want fair elections for all.
 exodusi1
Joined: 8/19/2006
Msg: 184
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The Hillraisers just won't fold
Posted: 8/7/2008 6:38:32 PM
2.4 million
Number of black military veterans in the United States in 2005. More military veterans are black than any other minority group.
http://www.census.gov/Press-Release/www/releases/archives/facts_for_features_special_editions/007862.html

I said I don't have the actual numbers and was largely from anecdotal evidence. I conceed I don't have the exact figures. But it was a Red Herring Fallacy anyway, because Democrats DON'T want to prevent veterans from voting. We just want all the votes counted. We win when EVERYONE'S votes are counted. We lose when people's votes are suppressed. So it is a moot point anyway. But you are wrong about the military being that firmly behind McCain. All but one of the Veterans I know are voting for Obama.
 ManeRider
Joined: 5/22/2005
Msg: 185
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The Hillraisers just won't fold
Posted: 8/7/2008 6:46:58 PM
I think you answered for me, Purple, that there may be a greater number of turnouts among blacks. I do assume many blacks don't vote because forever, it's been a white vs white presidential race. And as for Atlanta having a huge turnout of voters, within the city of Atlanta, their numbers are extremely high. Atlanta's a black mecha, so.... there's always going to appear a large percetange because, well, they have the greatest numbers of inhabitants.

edit: rural Ga has it's own share of blacks in all of the small towns, several generations worth, so it would not surprise me if they came in numbers challenging the old voting ways of yesterdays.
 exodusi1
Joined: 8/19/2006
Msg: 187
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The Hillraisers just won't fold
Posted: 8/8/2008 4:20:09 PM
It isn't the Democrats, it is the Republicans who voted for her in the primary.

Democrats aren't going to vote for Bush, err McSame, it just isn't going to happen.
 faith2565
Joined: 3/25/2006
Msg: 188
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The Hillraisers just won't fold
Posted: 8/8/2008 5:28:44 PM
83% of the Clinton supporters have already declared they would support Obama. It will be ok in the end. Majority of the military is not black. My son's unit has over 50 men and their are only 3 blacks. I thought the numbers would be higher also. I will try to scan the unit picture and place on my page.
 ManeRider
Joined: 5/22/2005
Msg: 189
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The Hillraisers just won't fold
Posted: 8/8/2008 7:10:57 PM

t is becoming obvious how important it is to the Democrats that these rebels who won't fall in line be kept under the radar.

It might be the democrats are keeping tabs on the "rebels" in Hillary land because their hate-filled outward displeasure with Obama could result in an assasination attempt. Its not as if racial or gender zealots come to public events with tags on their sleeves. I'm sure that would be at least part of their concern.
 faith2565
Joined: 3/25/2006
Msg: 190
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The Hillraisers just won't fold
Posted: 8/9/2008 12:48:17 PM
No Obama is not Hillary and no where near it. Thank God!

That is why he is on the ticket. Could you imagine the campaign. McCain with the anti-christ ad's while Hillary misremebers.
 flyonthewall!
Joined: 3/31/2008
Msg: 191
The Hillraisers just won't fold
Posted: 8/9/2008 7:58:16 PM
FWIW, surveys I've seen show that the racial composition of the military is more or less the same as their percentage in the general population.

Here are a couple of pie charts on the ethic population of the US and Army recruits in the year 2004:

http://www.nationalpriorities.org/Racial+Composition+of+Army+Recruits+vs.+Population+2004

The figures were gotten through an FOIA request and US Census statistics.
 ManeRider
Joined: 5/22/2005
Msg: 192
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The Hillraisers just won't fold
Posted: 8/9/2008 9:10:35 PM

He's not ready for prime time. Perhaps in a few years he may be? Only time will tell. But now is amazingly premature! He was shoved into the nomination by the public and media frenzy, and that is extremely unfortunate

Suthe`nBoy.........I gotta ask....... how much they payin` ya to spread this 'massage' of Clinton?
Seems I recall the debates between all candidates, Richardson, Edwards, Kucinich, Clinton, Obama, et al. I also recall the Republican debates.
Could it not be that the vast majority of voters actually enjoyed seeing how Obama presented himself? He stood his ground as well if not better than anyone else on that stage. Maybe that's why people are picking him as their nominee now. Or did I miss something?

I still strongly suggest that Clinton supporters (or anyone else who it may appeal to), contact her campaign via the web site and put pressure on Hillary et al to run as an Independent.

PLEASE PLEASE.... tell me you're not one of the 17% of Hill voters still trying to get her name on a ballot? OMG. They're being labeled as extreme radicals, especially in the face of Hillary coming out and openly campaigning for Obama. I mean, with all due respect,....which part is giving you the problem.... the "N' or the "O"?
In terms of experience, I'd say a good number of those on the stage were all more experienced in Washington than Obama, but everyone already knew that. Maybe they see a glimmer of hope in him that the others weren't able to bring about. Maybe it was the manner in which he responded. MAYBE..... it was because Hillary was trying to hurl her insults at both Edwards and Obama that caused her to lose that battle. Maybe her psycho-babble sounded too much like the old-style politics we've seen for so long. (I actually liked Richardson, FWIW. )
I personally felt Hillary could have stepped down from her recitations, and answered questions directly, rather than taking the opportunity to say whateverthehe1lshewanted abou whateverthehel1agenda she wanted to preach on. She clearly missed the opportunity to strut her stuff because she chose not to answer questions with answers, but instead, gave much hyperbole on issues that were almost distant to the actual questions she tried answering. My opinions, but I think that summed it up for me. Obama answered directly into the line of questioning, his answers a form of conviction, and wasn't diluted with a bunch of strings attached or the hyperbole I saw in Clinton. I hope she works alongside Obama, if not as VEEP, in some other very strong capacity. She's a good woman and Obama could use her on his side. She is apparently backing him, campaigning for him while on vacation. That's a good sign.
One more thing: Even if some feel Obama isn't ready, Presidents are often figureheads, they do what others tell them to do. I mean, look at Bush, FCS. He couldn't blow his own nose. Do you really think Obama would do any worse than HIM?
 faith2565
Joined: 3/25/2006
Msg: 193
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The Hillraisers just won't fold
Posted: 8/10/2008 7:12:22 PM
She is trying to play both sides. Her heart is not in it. Bill, can not even just say he will be a good president. The Clintonites are also starting to make it 'the civil war part ii'. The rumor is that she is trying to assist McCain in winning so she can run in 2012 and that the 17% are feminist and racist. They are talking about making part of the convention about her people being so upset.

I thought she would have been good on the ticket, but now it looks as though she would be more of a headache.

Obama 08
 Strongdad
Joined: 6/9/2007
Msg: 194
The Hillraisers just won't fold
Posted: 8/10/2008 7:20:56 PM
Watching Hillary and Obama flip each other the bird this year has been entertaining, indeed. Hillary admits that democrats have sexists amongst them, while Obama and his fans admit that there are many racists amongst the democrats. All, who pretended for years that racism and sexism was merely a fault of republicans.

It is good Obama and Hillary have exposed the sexism and racism which runs rampant in their party. But, it really isn't news to those of us who have been saying it all along.

Hilarious!

SD
 faith2565
Joined: 3/25/2006
Msg: 195
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The Hillraisers just won't fold
Posted: 8/10/2008 8:28:19 PM
I have said since the primaries that the democrats are hurting themselves. I am not a democrat. I am an independent. Clinton's supposed plan is going to back fire. It is not making her look strong, but selfish. But, when I attended the local convention I could see the drama within the party. They keep saying it will be worked out, but it is beginning to look bad. If Clinton is thinking about 2012 she will not even get pass the initial primary. Meaning that list of 10-15 people that state they are running. She will not get as far as Edward's did this time. She needs to chill.
 Strongdad
Joined: 6/9/2007
Msg: 196
The Hillraisers just won't fold
Posted: 8/10/2008 8:37:43 PM
I have to wonder about mathematics. Obama thinks that 10,000 people died in a Kansas tornado, in a town where only 1500 or so live. Then, he thinks there are 58 states in the US.

Now, this......

After I posted the above, I saw on CNN that only 17% of Hillary supporters are saying they will vote for McCain. lol So much for millions of scary PUMA's
____________________________________________________________

Let's see now. Hillary had 18 million votes. 17% of 18 million is????

Millions of votes. Hillary supporters have a legitimate reason to vote for McCain. I am glad they will be....by the millions, indeed.

Gotta love "the new math." These people wanna be in charge of MONEY???

SD
 faith2565
Joined: 3/25/2006
Msg: 197
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The Hillraisers just won't fold
Posted: 8/10/2008 8:42:34 PM
It was posted a while back that 17% of Clintons voters will either vote for McCain or not vote. That is old news. It is also be said that they are beginning to look bad in the eyes of others. This is about Clinton trying to win in 2012. We will see at the convention. I was hoping she would be the VP, but now it looks like she would be more of a pain in the bottom. My sister stated that a journalist stated on the news the other day, they would not be surprised if Clinton did not vote for McCain.
 Strongdad
Joined: 6/9/2007
Msg: 198
The Hillraisers just won't fold
Posted: 8/10/2008 8:46:55 PM
While PUMA and other pro Hillary groups look bad to Obama and his fans, they look good to me! Hillary's speech to her supporters yesterday, as well as Bill's tepid remarks about Obama this weekend demonstrate how divided the democrat party is. Never underestimate the Clintons. Never, never, never.

I keep wondering how Obama thinks he can unite our country, when he can't even unite his own party.

SD
 faith2565
Joined: 3/25/2006
Msg: 199
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The Hillraisers just won't fold
Posted: 8/10/2008 8:49:10 PM
Their time is over. They are making it loud and clear. The convention will reveal allot.

Obama will win in the end!

Obama 08
 flyonthewall!
Joined: 3/31/2008
Msg: 200
The Hillraisers just won't fold
Posted: 8/11/2008 5:42:18 PM
Really, who will they vote for? If they don't vote, Obama wins. So the evangelicals will vote for McCain because there's no alternative for them.

On the other hand, lack of unity in the Democratic party will certainly hurt Obama. There are no fewer than 30 organizations trying to either get Hillary on the ballot, or encouraging Hillary supporters to vote for McCain.

Now I don't think the Hillary supporters trying for an upset for the convention will succeed, but there are certainly millions of them who will vote for McCain come November.

v v v v v Seventeen percent of Hillary's supporters are 3 million voters. The PUMAs, plus conservative Democrats, and those who just won't vote for Obama because of his name or race adds up to a lot of lost votes.
 ManeRider
Joined: 5/22/2005
Msg: 201
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The Hillraisers just won't fold
Posted: 8/11/2008 5:42:44 PM

While PUMA and other pro Hillary groups look bad to Obama and his fans, they look good to me! Hillary's speech to her supporters yesterday, as well as Bill's tepid remarks about Obama this weekend demonstrate how divided the democrat party is. Never underestimate the Clintons. Never, never, never.

I keep wondering how Obama thinks he can unite our country, when he can't even unite his own party.


I dont' see how it could be determined that the democratic party is divided if only 17% of Hillary zealots are planning on switching parties or writing her name in on a ballot.
That leaves 83% of her voters still supporting the overall democratic tickets. (I.E: Obama)
Sounds fairly unanimous to me.
 Strongdad
Joined: 6/9/2007
Msg: 202
The Hillraisers just won't fold
Posted: 8/11/2008 5:56:01 PM
Do you think 3 million is going to make or break anyone in this race? I don't see how it could.
____________________________________________________________

I guess that depends upon how many of them cast pregnant chads with their ballots.
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