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 StrangerInTheHouse
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 64
McCain and AgePage 2 of 9    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9)
McCain sometimes shows advanced signs of dimentia. He'll be making a speech and then just get a stupid looking smile on his face or seem like he's in another world and just says things that have nothing to do with the subject... or he'll say that Iraq is bordered by Afghanistan or the Anbar Awakening couldn't have happened without the surge (in fact, it happened 4 to 6 months before the surge ....) or start saying "Bomb Bomb Iran" like the song "Barbara Ann" or something like that.. *whew*

I'm not talking about all the time, because it's amazing how sometimes he seem amazingly lucid for someone who's going through something like that... but then, that's the way dimentia is: one has good days and bad days.
I'm sure it will be a close election, because republicans always vote the party, not the person... but either way, I have a pretty good hunch he won't be upright for a real long time...
Aging has alot to do with it.
 Dodger48
Joined: 4/28/2008
Msg: 66
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History
McCain and Age
Posted: 7/25/2008 9:17:48 AM
Unfortunate that the guy has to face such undue scrutiny. He has all the qualifications to be one of the best presidents.
Experience
War veteran
An outsider with insider abilities to get things done
A very elequant speaker (perhaps thats just his speech writers)

Obama has many good qualities as well, unfortunately though in him it will be a left wing george bush. His inexperience and ideological rigidity will cost the US the worlds superpower status.
 StrangerInTheHouse
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 67
McCain and Age
Posted: 7/25/2008 9:23:33 AM


Unfortunate that the guy has to face such undue scrutiny.

so uh... noting that the guy can't remember what he's talking about when he's speaking is something you call "undue scrutiny"?

 Green Sangha
Joined: 3/12/2008
Msg: 68
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History
McCain and Age
Posted: 7/25/2008 10:35:33 AM
I don't want to support ageism, but I think McCain's age will come into play in the fall. His poor memory, his halting speech, his lack of knowledge about historical events will all make him appear to be in failing mental health. I think it is a worthwhile concern. Some 70 year olds are vibrant. I have a good friend who is 69 who exercises more than me and has amazing mental alacrity...beats me at Scrabble every time. Then there are others like McCain who either never was that bright to begin with, or who is losing his mental abilities. It will influence how people vote, without a doubt.

The other aspect of this is that he very much represents an outmoded way of viewing the world, hence Obama seems like the real change-agent if you don't like the way things have been going for our country. I am not a big fan of Obama. I even considered sitting this one out once Hillary was out of the race. Now that I am more focused on McCain my view has shifted. I may not go to work for Obama, but in the end, for the sake of my country, I will vote for him.
 flyguy51
Joined: 8/11/2005
Msg: 69
McCain and Age
Posted: 7/25/2008 11:44:57 AM
William Henry Harrison was close to Mccains age at 68.

Ah, you might not want to cite this one.

In any case, the issue is not really age in the general sense, it is McCain's aging process and how it may affect his mental acuity. He has been through some serious sh!t in his time. I'm more worried about his grasp of what is actually happening at home and abroad these days.

Ron Paul is 72. I bet he wishes he got far enough in the process for his age to be scrutinized...
 flyguy51
Joined: 8/11/2005
Msg: 72
McCain and Age
Posted: 7/25/2008 12:06:32 PM
Look up Harrison. McCain does not want to follow in his footsteps. Believe me...

To clarify the "vague" stuff: people age differently. It is not so much the age in years, but how a person is aging on a personal level. As teachpeace has pointed out, McCain is getting to the point where distant memories are keeping their clarity, but recent (and more relevant) memories are slipping away too easily for comfort.
 gentalltheway
Joined: 9/9/2006
Msg: 76
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History
McCain and Age
Posted: 7/25/2008 4:06:02 PM

As for illnesses. Either one could drop dead in office. Obama is a smoker. He could contract lung cancer/COPD, etc. and die or become greatly physically weakened. Either one could have a brain tumor...the list goes on and on and on.

Oh come on! There's a 25-year age gap for crying out loud! I think that it would be a sure bet to see McCain go first.

No one would want to see someone leading the most powerful army in the world going senile within a few years. Life expectancy for men in the US is 75…need I say more?

McCain already has a foot in the coffin... nuff said.

Anyway, I believe that as soon as things will heat up this fall, travelling and long hours, McCain health will become a very serious issue.
 exodusi1
Joined: 8/19/2006
Msg: 79
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History
McCain and Age
Posted: 7/25/2008 5:38:34 PM
The Nuclear Treaties, SALT I and SALT II were during the Carter Administration, not the Reagan Administration.

Reagan swelled the national debt from 1 Trillion to 4.5 Trillion in 8 years. Even Dubya only doubled it.

He spent 1 Trillion alone on SDI, which has NO chance of ever working. No, Reagan wasn't a good president. Name one accomlishment?
 StrangerInTheHouse
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 83
McCain and Age
Posted: 7/25/2008 7:09:35 PM


I don't think Reagan was in as bad of "shape" as some of our liberal friends would lead you to believe.


Oh COMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMME ON!!!
 o76923
Joined: 11/3/2007
Msg: 96
McCain and Age
Posted: 7/26/2008 2:08:32 AM
Real quick to the Reagan thing before I move on to important issues: He had Alzheimers. He said so himself in a handwritten letter to the American people. Even before he admitted it, there was alot of speculation. Citing him as an example of old Presidents being all good and healthy isn't a good idea.

Down to business. Nobody is saying McCain is a bad guy (well, they shouldn't be). Nobody is denying that he didn't do something good for the country in his life. Nobody is saying that there is some invisible line where you become too old to leave the home, live on your own, drive, etc... (not on this forum anyway).

What the McCain concernists are saying is that
1. He is out of touch with today's world (a biproduct of being at the cutting edge and leader in the world about 20 years ago)
2. He is exhibiting signs of a disease which could impact his presidency.
That's it. There are plenty of forums to bash every other little thing about McCain from his inability to high-5 somebody to his complete reversal on all positions in the past 4 years. The only thing that should be brought up on this forum are things related to those two points. If somebody wants to debate the merits of Reagan, go start a forum about him (or look for an already opened one). If somebody wants to compare Obama to Carter, there's already about 3 forums I regularly post on that do. But the point here is supposed to be "Does McCain's age, or things that happen because he has aged, effect how he would be president."
 o76923
Joined: 11/3/2007
Msg: 97
McCain and Age
Posted: 7/26/2008 2:08:49 AM
Real quick to the Reagan thing before I move on to important issues: He had Alzheimers. He said so himself in a handwritten letter to the American people. Even before he admitted it, there was alot of speculation. Citing him as an example of old Presidents being all good and healthy isn't a good idea.

Down to business. Nobody is saying McCain is a bad guy (well, they shouldn't be). Nobody is denying that he didn't do something good for the country in his life. Nobody is saying that there is some invisible line where you become too old to leave the home, live on your own, drive, etc... (not on this forum anyway).

What the McCain concernists are saying is that
1. He is out of touch with today's world (a biproduct of being at the cutting edge and leader in the world about 20 years ago)

2. He is exhibiting signs of a disease which could impact his presidency.

That's it. There are plenty of forums to bash every other little thing about McCain from his inability to high-5 somebody to his complete reversal on all positions in the past 4 years. The only thing that should be brought up on this forum are things related to those two points. If somebody wants to debate the merits of Reagan, go start a forum about him (or look for an already opened one). If somebody wants to compare Obama to Carter, there's already about 3 forums I regularly post on that do. But the point here is supposed to be "Does McCain's age, or things that happen because he has aged, effect how he would be president?"
 Dodger48
Joined: 4/28/2008
Msg: 98
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History
McCain and Age
Posted: 7/28/2008 4:05:30 PM
Short awnser No. Is it an advantage possibly experience always is. Is it a good attempt to discredit the guy for no apparent reason, absolutely. I haven't heard any reason to give credance to this, he has a clean bill of health.
 flyonthewall!
Joined: 3/31/2008
Msg: 99
McCain and Age
Posted: 7/28/2008 4:40:27 PM
o76923 --

I don't agree with either of your points, but where do you get the idea that McCain is exhibiting signs of Alzheimer's?

As an older person, McCain is more at risk of Alzheimer's than Obama, but even people in their 40s can get it.

Holding age against McCain is no more valid than holding greater security risks, and probably the need for additional Secret Service protection, against Obama. As long as we are picking from a universe of human beings, we are going to have to select one of those imperfect people.

Given that, I care if my President has qualifications for the job. Being a community organizer and former law school lecturer isn't it. This is why I'm voting for McCain.

McCain 2008!
 o76923
Joined: 11/3/2007
Msg: 103
McCain and Age
Posted: 7/28/2008 9:16:32 PM
fly,
I didn't mean to imply that I agree with the McCain concernists in that post. I am merely trying to state objectively what they are claiming so that there won't be attacks or defenses against things nobody is saying.

The issue of Alzheimer's was actually brought up by several other posters in regards to the claim Reagan was a healthy president. I disagree that he exhibits signs of Alzheimer's disease, MCI perhaps, but not Alzheimer's. There are some traits associated with both McCain and sufferers of some forms of dementia (inability to catalog new facts, enhanced memories of remote events, mood swings, etc), but there is no way for a member of the public to ever know for sure, most of us are not trained to that level in psychology. And almost none of us are around McCain enough to really know. Our only samplings of him are by definition very public and stressful which can exacerbate any symptom.

And there is a big difference between needing to hire an extra secret service member or two, and having a president who could suffer from a traumatic flashback, lose the ability to think abstractly, or anything along those lines. I'm not saying that either of those would happen to McCain, but that's why his mental state is an issue. Because some believe that he does.

I'm far more concerned about when he grew up than with how old he is. That and his complete reversal of positions since 2000.
 o76923
Joined: 11/3/2007
Msg: 104
McCain and Age
Posted: 7/28/2008 9:18:02 PM
Oh, I should mention on an unrelated note that McCain's biopsy being conducted in secret is doing nothing to allay the people's concerns when Obama brings the press corps with him to get preventative care.
 flyonthewall!
Joined: 3/31/2008
Msg: 105
McCain and Age
Posted: 7/28/2008 9:30:49 PM
o76923 --

What are you talking about? McCain does not suffer any form of dementia, and I have spent enough time around him to know that. All people forget things every once in a while. He does not have PTSD either, or I've never seen any evidence of it. I didn't meet him until the 1980s, so I don't know what he was like right after coming back from Vietnam.

McCain's biopsy was not taken "in secret". If you knew anything about people who've had skin cancer, then you would know they go for a check-up every six months. If a mole is found then it's removed and sent to pathology. McCain had no way of knowing whether or not he would be having something removed from his body before he went to the appointment.

When he showed up in public with a bandaid on his face, he told us exactly what had happened. That's hardly secrecy. Do you expect the man to issue a press release every time he goes to the doctor?

McCain has not "completely reversed" his positions since 2000. I'm not going to go through each issue, but for one thing he's still in favor of campaign finance reform. And speaking of campaign finance, he's actually taking the matching funds and adhering to federal campaign finance regulatoins -- and guess who isn't?

McCain 08
 MacKevinized
Joined: 2/15/2006
Msg: 107
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History
McCain and Age
Posted: 7/29/2008 5:09:32 AM

I don't think Reagan was in as bad of "shape" as some of our liberal friends would lead you to believe.


No he wasn't, Nancy was sure of that because her psychic told her so. The psychic could 'communicate' with Ronie to find out what he really wanted and she could whisper it to him while he was making his public appearances.

Ron was actually good at reading lines but I think he had sporadic bouts with reality only occasionally.


What are you talking about? McCain does not suffer any form of dementia, and I have spent enough time around him to know that.


I could concede he may not have the beginnings of dementia if you conceded:

he forgets what he is saying quite often,
is easily irritated,
forgets which pocket his written speech is in and fumbles for it in front of the cameras.
Can't get it together to use a computer and/or tele-prompter.
Whines about not getting enough attention.

It's not about age either, my sister had the same symptoms and it turned out to be a cyst on her brain. Medication took care of it for my sister but if it's age that's causing it for McCain, I don't think they've found a cure for that yet.

Funny thing, they might be able to find a way to use stem cells to fix those symptoms but McCain is probably McSame as the bushies.
 flyonthewall!
Joined: 3/31/2008
Msg: 108
McCain and Age
Posted: 7/29/2008 5:53:48 AM
I haven't noticed he gets irritated or forgets what he's saying "often". And a lot of my friends who are his age aren't all that computer literate, so what?

In the future stem cells may be able to cure things, so far, not so much. However, McCain supports embyonic cell research:


Supports federal funding of embryonic stem cell research
Q: Would you expand federal funding of embryonic stem cell research?

A: I believe that we need to fund this. This is a tough issue for those of us in the pro-life community. I would remind you that these stem cells are either going to be discarded or perpetually frozen. We need to do what we can to relieve human suffering. It's a tough issue. I support federal funding.

Source: 2007 GOP primary debate, at Reagan library, hosted by MSNBC May 3, 2007


http://www.ontheissues.org/Social/John_McCain_Abortion.htm
 MacKevinized
Joined: 2/15/2006
Msg: 109
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History
McCain and Age
Posted: 7/29/2008 7:17:36 AM

I haven't noticed he gets irritated or forgets what he's saying "often". And a lot of my friends who are his age aren't all that computer literate, so what?


I notice it, he's asked a question about an issue and this look of panic seems to take over for a moment and he blurts out some slogan or says "Obama's wrong on this issue because...." and many times what he says has nothing to do with the answer.
He usually blubs toward the end of his outings, then his handlers swiftly whisk him away.

Lately I've seen he just ignores reporters questions when he knows he can't answer their questions. I just saw him sneer at a Wall Street Journal. He picked her out of a crowd of reporters, she identified herself as from the WSJ and started asking a question. Before she could ask the question, he sneered and asked another reporter for another question. He was acting totally ignorant and rude towards her. Ignoring economic questions isn't a good strategy.
 MacKevinized
Joined: 2/15/2006
Msg: 112
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History
McCain and Age
Posted: 7/29/2008 2:29:31 PM

Senator McCain has been coming in for some mockery lately for having answered the "Mac or PC?" question from Politico.com with, "Neither, I am an illiterate." But before writing off the likely Republican nominee as a Luddite or an old fogey, allow us to contemplate the idea that Mr. McCain might be smarter than we all think


I contemplated for about 20 seconds on that one. It's pretty out of touch with modern communications to be unable to navigate a computer and the internet.
 flyonthewall!
Joined: 3/31/2008
Msg: 116
McCain and Age
Posted: 7/29/2008 8:09:27 PM
Nah. McCain knows how to spell "too", when it means "too much", or "too senile" -- especially when it refers to Obama.
 Strongdad
Joined: 6/9/2007
Msg: 117
McCain and Age
Posted: 7/29/2008 8:24:58 PM
I too, look forward to them debating. Too bad Obama backed down on the recent townhall debate invitations. It was such an opportunity to show some courage. Obama's lack of experience at almost everything will be highlighted sitting next to McCain. I can't wait to hear Obamas responses to policy questions in areas he hasn't even heard of yet, while the ole guy schools the young boy.

Fun times for all. LOL.

SD
 Strongdad
Joined: 6/9/2007
Msg: 118
McCain and Age
Posted: 7/29/2008 8:27:03 PM
I have noticed some internet posts here, claiming McCain has alzheimers. So many cyber doctors....so few patients. LOL. Good God.

SD
 o76923
Joined: 11/3/2007
Msg: 119
McCain and Age
Posted: 7/29/2008 9:19:31 PM
I think it's gonna be funny because Obama won't have to do anything other than stand within a few feet of McCain. There's a 40 year age difference. That's the difference between a middle schooler and retirement. And as much as I'd like to wave that off as "oh, you're just being ageist" I think it'll help Obama score alot of points with the audience before anything happens.

And to the issue of McCain not using computers or the internet, that's somewhat terrifying. I know that the senate didn't adopt Computers over legal pads until the 70s. And it wasn't until this decade that they switched to Windows and office, but to still be computer illiterate is a tad out there. If nothing else, computers have been one of the most influential things in recent history. On top of that, the internet is one of the things that draws the line at the end of the post-modern movement. The creation of a forum in which anyone can say anything is a pretty new concept. Before, it was impossible for one rogue to share his crazy ideas with the entire world. Now, that rogue could get millions of views per day. The barrier to entry on public speaking has plummeted down from the ultra rich to the lower-middle class. There's also the revolution in commerce, globalization, and any number of other things that have changed as a proximate result of public internet.

I'm not expecting McCain to use myspace polls to determine US policy, nor am I expecting arms deals to be on eBay. But I'd at least like to know he'd make a passing glance at the last 20 years of development. Then again

Tom for President '08
 MacKevinized
Joined: 2/15/2006
Msg: 121
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History
McCain and Age
Posted: 7/30/2008 3:08:30 AM

After seeing how those town halls were a big hoax, I can see why Obama chose not to participate. And if you think there are policies that Obama has not even heard of yet, you're fooling yourself. He knows where he is....it's not like he woke up one day and said "gee...maybe I'll run for President today!! You really think McCain's going to "school" him in economics? lol Um, yeah. That's funny.


McCain really was trying to bum a ride to those debates he suggested. He probably doesn't like the image of asking cindy for her plane all the time.
But it would have made for great photo ops, McCain exiting Obama's plane with Obama's slogan on it in the background.

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