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 Welsh474
Joined: 9/13/2010
Msg: 226
Women's Financial StatusPage 10 of 27    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27)
Geez Cindy, it's funny how that works. For the last two days on this post my funny bone keeps returning to the 69 position - you remember that one - 69. Seems there are a lot of women that prefer the 68 position - that means "you do me and I'll owe you one".
 BLoNde__ANgeL
Joined: 9/20/2011
Msg: 227
Women's Financial Status
Posted: 4/7/2012 5:10:15 PM
So we just got back from dinner & I told him about this thread while we ate. He laughed & said if it's "dutch" it's not a date...the total w/ tip AFTER the $25 coupon was $52 & he was paying in cash- he had only 1 single, so I threw in the other buck...he said be sure to tell them u threw in a dollar plus the $25 off which cost $2...

He said he never heard of such cheap men. We laughed & had a good time-it's not all about $$$ that is just part of it...
 Giggles10000
Joined: 6/17/2011
Msg: 228
Women's Financial Status
Posted: 4/7/2012 5:19:56 PM

One man asked from a POF get together asked me to go with him on a trip to Florida and expected me to pay my plane fare there.. I just laughed and thought my goodness what is he thinking.. Not this girl.. for starters I would lose two weeks of making money and it would cost me to do this trip.. Pure dollars and sense here I would prefer not to lose the money and stay home.

1. Why should he pay for your airfare? Horror of horrors, possibly as an exchange for free sex?
($500 for 14 nights comes to less than $40 per event). Would you expect him to pay also for your food and accommodation?
2. Should he have also reimbursed you for two weeks of lost income and kennel fees?
3. And when it comes to pure dollars and sense, he could find much cheaper entertainment right on the beach.


This guy just asked me last week to meet him in Dubai--I said hell yea and made my airline reservations--you only live once and the work etc will still be there when you get back.

He has money and he was going there, he did decide to stay at a nicer place and for longer since I am going and he even offered me my own room, which I advised him how I felt about that --why should I expect him to pay for me to get there--would it be nice --maybe-- but then I become a possession not a person. I prefer a man who views me as an equal person in his life, not someone on a pedestal or someone he can control.

I have never failed to offer to pay for my part of a first meet/date or at the least to leave a tip, I have offend a few men but most seem to like the idea that I am not out to get a freebie from them.

Now I can at this moment afford to go, if I couldnt then I would just have waited until he got back in the states to meet, he just thought this was an awesome way to meet and after reading about Dubai I have to say I agree. And please I really dont care what your personal opinions on this is. The point is everyone has to do what makes them happy--Im not Cinderella waiting on Prince Charming to come in and swoop me off from my boring existence.
 BLoNde__ANgeL
Joined: 9/20/2011
Msg: 229
Women's Financial Status
Posted: 4/7/2012 5:26:45 PM
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
and one time in band camp...
 cap_n_mORGAN
Joined: 7/3/2009
Msg: 230
Women's Financial Status
Posted: 4/7/2012 8:53:33 PM

But didn't this thread start out as an inquiry for a consensus of opinion about mens' general idea of what was an acceptable financial status for 45+ women-or if it even really mattered?

Cindy O


Actually the OP interjected this into the topic.




That's more of a question to men, but women's opinion is also important.

What are the expectations from a woman of 45+ in that department? Own her home? Should her mortgage be paid off? Have an X amount of money on savings or in investments, etc?

Just curious, since it seems like a lot of men would like a woman to pay her way on vacations and entertainment, but at the same time to be financially secure and self sufficient with her assets.


So the OP is the one that opened this for discussion.

On a regular date I would not expect any contribution from the lady....if she offered to leave the tip I wouldn't have a objection.....as long as she left at least 15% as I believe in leaving a decent tip.
t
On a extended holiday or a expensive concert or something of the like yes I would expect her to pay her own way.

In LTR/marriage the same would be expected ....we should share the household expense's and each keep a personal checking account.

That way we each have our own money for the things we want personally AFTER paying our share of the bills of course.



Just curious, since it seems like a lot of men would like a woman to pay her way on vacations and entertainment, but at the same time to be financially secure and self sufficient with her assets.


So OP are you saying a woman can't pay her way on dates and be financially secure and sufficient with her assets?

Seeing as men normally pay for both and the same financial security is expected of him...Why is it such a burden on the woman just to pay her own way?
 BLoNde__ANgeL
Joined: 9/20/2011
Msg: 231
Women's Financial Status
Posted: 4/8/2012 8:09:43 AM

but quality men, these days, are starting to wise up and hold women to a higher standard.

they can stay home alone on a Saturday nite while other are out having fun...and a relationship...

The other nite on CNBC there was a TV show "Love at First Byte" about internet dating. They did alot of research & said that for a man, income & height was very important, but not for the women. It was appearance that got the women the dates. All of the other stuff was secondary.

It's hardwired into us for women to assess a man as his ability to be a good provider (hunt) & women to be attractive & healthy looking (good genetics/reproductive ability)

You can't fool mother nature!

read David M. Buss, Dr. Helen Fisher, Steven Pinker, David J. Buller
 Welsh474
Joined: 9/13/2010
Msg: 232
Women's Financial Status
Posted: 4/8/2012 9:09:22 AM
I didn't really have a problem with Dreamfire's post - what I got from it was "what do WE bring to the table" and I'm looking at that statement from both sides, men and women. Apparently for some they have a new guy on the line every week, if I knew all I had to do was put on 75 pounds and pose in semi-lingerie shots I'd try it. I just don't want the weight gain and I'm not into showing my ass-ets.

As for "It's hardwired into us for women to assess a man as his ablility to be a good provider (hunt) & women to be attracive & healthy looking (good genetic/reproductive ability). I get that, I've read many a book by Helen Fisher. But when was the last time a man had to go out and hunt and at our age men aren't looking at us for our reproductive capability - we're long past that. I look at it as - what do I, as a human being, bring to the table. And what does he, as a human being, bring to the table. It's way more involved than a wallet and good skin care. At this age I'm looking for someone financial responsible, learned from their mistakes, can compromise and adapt to life's situations, has the ability to be an equal partner, is respectful of our relationship, is my true friend and lover in every way, can appreciate what I have to offer and I in turn will do the same. I have no room in my life for a "taker" and by the same token he should no feel like I am the "taker".
I like the word "partner" and I intend to have a partner and be a partner in every sense of the word.

As for "all that other stuff is secondary", I agree to a point. We all have our initial attraction - could be the eyes, could be the body, could be the hair and yes, for some, it could be the wallet or the fat chick in lingerie shots. But all the "secondary" stuff is what makes a relationship. It may start with a winning smile but the glue that holds it together is love in a loving, respectful long term relationship. Once you get past the looks and the wallet there better be something more there or it won't work.
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 233
Women's Financial Status
Posted: 4/8/2012 9:23:34 AM

Actually, nothing has shifted and the point that keeps getting missed(which is why the subject keeps coming up) is a woman's financial conduct in a dating scenario is a fairly strong indicator of how she will behave in a long term relationship or marriage.


Oh-I didn't miss that point, I thought it was so well understood as to go without saying. It makes perfect sense to me. But according to those in the know, all that matters is a womans looks-and from what I 've been seeing on this thread, her ability to make sex a bargaining chip instead of "just giving it away".

Here's a question for men who claim they deal with being run over by the freight train of "housewife syndrome", the double standards, the brainwashing, manipulation, emasculation...why did you go along with it?

I don't dispute that these things happen to men who allow it to happen.

But from where I sit,I cannot say I've seen a lot of it-mostly what I have seen in my life is women who not only were wage earners but also still handled a very large percentage of the traditional homemaker/mother duties. If it were necessary to "outsource" duties, it was the wage earner/homemaker wife/mother who made those arrangements.

Let me explain the one of the big concerns that these "exceptional" women have to look out for. And that is MEN who bring little to the table but expect that these "exceptional" women are so anxious to have a man in their lives that they will overlook the financial disparity.
When these "exceptional" women go out to meet a man, they have to be concerned that their less-traditional position of financial equality in dating is going to either OFFEND a more traditional male, or is it going to look like an open invitation to a parasitic one?
Yes, I realize that some of these men have been financially devastated by a rapacious divorce settlement-or they have genuinely been backhanded by Fate. But the concern is there, and trust me, it is real.

From time to time the subject comes up here in the forums and some of us allegedly "exceptional" women joke that finding a SO is easy-all one needs to do is attend the next "Adopt a Drunk" event at the local bar and grill and bar...

Sadly, most of what's left in the pool are the takers.
Well, "exceptional" women tend to find either that, or men who are so terrified of getting caught up with ANOTHER "taker", that they come across as "takers".


but quality men, these days, are starting to wise up and hold women to a higher standard.
***************************************************************************************************
they can stay home alone on a Saturday nite while other are out having fun...and a relationship...


I notice that there was no attempt to argue the "quality men" observation. Or are we just supposed to presume that being in a relationship is incontrovertible proof of being "quality people"?
I might also argue that 'quality men' who happen to be unpartnered can usually find plenty of other interesting and fun things to do, that quality people of either gender do not sit at home mourning their current single situation. In fact, having no one to answer to/accommodate can actually present one with some interesting and fun options.


It's hardwired into us for women to assess a man as his ability to be a good provider (hunt) & women to be attractive & healthy looking (good genetics/reproductive ability)


This statement has merit when we talk about young people. Nor is it my intent to discredit "chemistry" as a vital element of a healthy relationship for people of any age.
But it sure seems to me that by age 45+, the "hardwired"/"chemistry" part ought to be tempered with some evolved reasoning-shouldn't a 45+ man be wondering how a 45+ woman has been surviving? Are 45+ women REALLY planning to reward their new-found "providers" with offspring?

Do tell!
Cindy O
 cap_n_mORGAN
Joined: 7/3/2009
Msg: 234
Women's Financial Status
Posted: 4/8/2012 9:37:29 AM

The other nite on CNBC there was a TV show "Love at First Byte" about internet dating. They did alot of research & said that for a man, income & height was very important, but not for the women. It was appearance that got the women the dates. All of the other stuff was secondary.

It's hardwired into us for women to assess a man as his ability to be a good provider (hunt) & women to be attractive & healthy looking (good genetics/reproductive ability)

You can't fool mother nature!


Ahh but nature learns to adapt rather quickly.

When I was a boy I had a dog that was hit by a car. It broke his hip badly. I nursed him for weeks he healed but could not use his back legs for months. He would pull his back legs off the ground and walk on his front legs only.

Then he began to use his back legs as one. After about 6 months he was back to running still using his back legs as one, so he was able to return to his favorite pass time of chasing down rabbits. He did just as well as he did before he was crippled by that car.

So understand just as my dog did men that have been blindsided will learn how to heal and find new ways to accomplish their goals.

So listen to the news stories all you want while ignoring the many real voices here that say they are done with the status quo.

Today's dating scene is not what it was 50 years ago or even 10 years ago for that matter.

And as far as sitting home on Saturday night alone that is funny.

I don't do that unless I want to and what many here seem to be missing is the men are not saying they can't find dates or relationships.

We are saying we DON"T want the dates and relationships with women that measure us by our wallets.

We want women that want a truly equal relationship.

Cause just as my dog learned to chase down rabbits again......he also learned to stay away from the cars and not get hurt again.

Just as some of us men are learning to be much more careful in our choosing, and only choose to have a relationship with women that are willing to do as much for the relationship as we are.


Edit to add...

Again I find myself agreeing with Lady C4 at age 45 do you really think reproducing is on a mans mind?

 SpeedracerSmith
Joined: 3/5/2012
Msg: 235
Women's Financial Status
Posted: 4/8/2012 10:37:34 AM
Where I live in SoCal..they like them young. I've met MANY men 45+ who want children and will only date women of childbearing age...but MOST men over 45 aren't looking for reproducing.
 Paderic
Joined: 2/23/2010
Msg: 236
Women's Financial Status
Posted: 4/8/2012 10:44:21 AM
The other nite on CNBC there was a TV show "Love at First Byte" about internet dating. They did alot of research & said that for a man, income & height was very important, but not for the women. It was appearance that got the women the dates. All of the other stuff was secondary.


That's probably true for the majority of people, but that does not mean it's true for everyone or that everyone should follow this prescription to find happiness. Some of us do not want the traditional "Me man, you woman!" type of relationship.

Women who bring nothing but their looks into a relationship really shouldn't be surprised when they are discarded for a better looking candidate. By the same token, men who bring nothing but their bank balance into a relationship shouldn't be surprised when they are discarded for someone with more money.


It's hardwired into us for women to assess a man as his ability to be a good provider (hunt) & women to be attractive & healthy looking (good genetics/reproductive ability)


The notion that we're "hardwired" into any way of thinking is a crock. Humans are remarkably intelligent creatures capable of adapting.

People are not all alike.


they can stay home alone on a Saturday nite while other are out having fun...and a relationship...


Snarky comment aside, that is preferable to being trapped in the wrong relationship.

For me, a relationship where I am measured by how much money I provide to my spouse does not sound like fun at all. It sounds more like a road map to divorce.
 nativerock
Joined: 10/16/2010
Msg: 237
Women's Financial Status
Posted: 4/8/2012 10:52:38 AM

Simple, but it doesn't work because rule # 2 for many women is that they never ask a man on a date. Much more effective to just stop asking women out who never offer to contribute. It doesn't take many dates to see the pattern.


If a woman went out and enjoyed herself with this man she will in fact ask him either over for dinner or out to some event she is invited to.. After all she wants to see him again..
 BLoNde__ANgeL
Joined: 9/20/2011
Msg: 238
Women's Financial Status
Posted: 4/8/2012 11:05:43 AM
take a course in Evolutionary psychology...just cuz we no longer can "reproduce" does not mean our instincts disappear...

denying "instincts" can be counter-productive...

once I learned what I did in my class & through subsequent reading, it really changed my life!
 Luv_Lyfe
Joined: 7/19/2010
Msg: 239
Women's Financial Status
Posted: 4/8/2012 11:11:14 AM
I get asked out by women who pay when they initiate the date. It is a genuine pleasure for me. Things should balance out in a healthy relationship. By the way, I find it appropriate to look at each woman's fincancial situation individually. In general if the woman makes half of what I make I expect her to carry 1/3 of the load. If she made 1/4 what I do she would carry 20% of the load, and so on although other factors may enter the picture such as having a child in college. A woman I am dating and I do not conciously keep track. Rather, we gift to one another.
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 240
Women's Financial Status
Posted: 4/8/2012 11:49:16 AM

just cuz we no longer can "reproduce" does not mean our instincts disappear...

I'm not saying that they did or that they should. But to me, it doesn't matter how much money a man has or how much of it he's willing to lavish on me-if I don't want to have sex with him,I'm not going to get into a relationship with him.
On the other side of that coin, If I meet a man I want to have sex with, but he looks like a socioeconomic black hole looking for some fool to suck in-I ain't getting into a relationship with him either. I'm not demanding absolute economic parity, "tit for tat" "scorekeeping"-in fact I've come to believe I would be most confortable in a relationship that allowed for financial autonomy and we each provide our own place to live.

Again, I'm not talking about "scorekeeping", I'm not talking about "fwb", I'm talking about a relationship that allows each of us to maintain financial boundaries, and any taking down of those boundaries would be an act of pure love, not an entitlement or foregone expectation.
Cindy O
 Paderic
Joined: 2/23/2010
Msg: 241
Women's Financial Status
Posted: 4/8/2012 12:29:43 PM

take a course in Evolutionary psychology...just cuz we no longer can "reproduce" does not mean our instincts disappear...


I'd rather pack my derriere with M80s and squat over a campfire.


denying "instincts" can be counter-productive...


Surrendering to societal expectations can lead to misery.

Some of us don't want what society says we're supposed to want and we're perfectly happy with the lives we've chosen.
 cap_n_mORGAN
Joined: 7/3/2009
Msg: 242
Women's Financial Status
Posted: 4/8/2012 1:01:34 PM

Surrendering to societal expectations can lead to misery.

Some of us don't want what society says we're supposed to want and we're perfectly happy with the lives we've chosen.


And some here will go to any length to try and convince us we are wrong to feel that way. It seems that if we can be happy not following the "rules" they want to force on everyone......they can't be happy.

As someone said above strength is not bearing a life that most expect of us. It is having the fortitude to communicate what you actually want in a partner and relationship not caring what others think.

To reduce humans to instinct alone is ludicrous. We may be mammals but we do have higher thought and freewill that most animals lack.

I know what I am looking for and may never find it, however I would rather be single and enjoy myself rather than accept a common relationship. One where I am worried about having to be sure my wallet is flush enough for a woman to stay.
 TryAgan
Joined: 4/4/2008
Msg: 243
view profile
History
Women's Financial Status
Posted: 4/8/2012 2:07:42 PM

At this age I'm looking for someone financial responsible, learned from their mistakes, can compromise and adapt to life's situations, has the ability to be an equal partner, is respectful of our relationship, is my true friend and lover in every way, can appreciate what I have to offer and I in turn will do the same. I have no room in my life for a "taker" and by the same token he should no feel like I am the "taker".
I like the word "partner" and I intend to have a partner and be a partner in every sense of the word.

That's my motto. Applies to living together, and to trips, too.

Over the years, I took many nice vacations with active and able female companions, and we both shared the expenses. Now, I don't do any cruises nor all-inclusive resorts, usually it's flying or driving to some remote spot and exploring the country by car or on foot (except Florida in the winter). Sharing the travel costs works for both, and of course, there are also other benefits than just the monetary savings.

I never got any demands from them for me paying the entire trip cost, they always appreciated those opportunities and interesting vacations, except one city mouse, who after the first hike near Anchorage confessed, that although she liked nature, her idea to immerse herself into it was a leisurely walk in a nearby botanical garden. Well, we both survived the trip, she discovered there things other than the shopping malls, she even took pictures of moose, wolves, and grizzlies, and my 2013 travel schedule is already filling up.
 Dragracer428
Joined: 1/1/2012
Msg: 244
Women's Financial Status
Posted: 4/8/2012 3:55:27 PM
Have read this whole thread with much interest, has made me think about my attitudes about the subject.
I am a poor example myself of financial responsibility, am obsessed in a small way with a very expensive hobby and have given little thought to retirement.
Had what was a historic week for me in that I had dates with 3 different ladies. Somewhat surprised to find at the end of that week to be more interested in the lady with the best personality and that financial stability was a bigger factor than I ever thought it would be. Very surprised to find that was one of the deciding factors with the very striking lady who never volunteered a penny on either occasion we met. While I would have insisted on the initial meeting and first date, the lack of an offer bothered me more than I would have thought it would before reading this thread.
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 245
Women's Financial Status
Posted: 4/8/2012 4:13:52 PM
Dragracer-
I for one can understand about someone who has invested a lot of time and money in the pursuit of excellence via a hobby, competition, or unusual occupation. But then again, I'm the one speaking about relationships that are not so interwoven that one persons' issues takes both people down.

And while I don't agree with it personally, I guess I can understand that there are people who look at relationships as a means to better feather their nest, so to speak. I think it would be a source of stress for me, to be in a relationship where I came to be extremely attached to a higher "manner of living" on somebody else's dime. Yeah yeah, I suppose I could marry the guy and then go after half his stuff if the marriage failed, but DAMN!-that sounds like going to a helluva lotta trouble-it's only money,and ya can't take it with you.

That said, I am not interested in adopting a male financial/practical project,either. I can't afford a human house pet.

I prefer to stick within shouting distance of the top-and bottom of the socioeconomic bracket I've become acustomed to. Marrying "up" or taking on a man that saw ME as a meal ticket-or a way to bootstrap himself back to financial stability-neither one of those is my vision of a good idea.
Cindy O
 BLoNde__ANgeL
Joined: 9/20/2011
Msg: 246
Women's Financial Status
Posted: 4/8/2012 5:01:22 PM
http://www.usatoday.com/money/workplace/2004-08-26-women_x.htm

this has older stats, but says that women make approx 75 cents on the dollar compared to men. Even if she gets child support, the cost of taking care of those kids eclipses the amount of support she gets, IMO...

So if we already start out at a financial disadvantage, then have the additional fiscal responsibility of child rearing...ahem, sorry when I was raising my kids, no, I was not gonna go Dutch. Not one man ever asked me to either. And I never made demands on those I dated. If there was someone special & they offered to take me out, of course I said yes. If they were icky, I said no, even if they offered to take me to Aruba, etc.

To each his own on here. When someone cares about us, they don't split pennies & with hold...maybe some people here are not accustomed to someone caring enough to share w/o the "owning" & any other negative connotation. I suspect some even BS about it too...but that is another story...



The notion that we're "hardwired" into any way of thinking is a crock.
I did not know u had a PHD in scince, psychology or biology...

Snarky comment aside, that is preferable to being trapped in the wrong relationship.
are you saying there is no such thing as the "right" relationship?

 Paderic
Joined: 2/23/2010
Msg: 247
Women's Financial Status
Posted: 4/8/2012 6:43:40 PM
I did not know u had a PHD in scince, psychology or biology...


When did you earn yours?


are you saying there is no such thing as the "right" relationship?


If that's what I intended to say, that's what I would have said. So, no, that's not what I'm saying.


To each his own on here. When someone cares about us, they don't split pennies & with hold...maybe some people here are not accustomed to someone caring enough to share w/o the "owning" & any other negative connotation. I suspect some even BS about it too...but that is another story...


Some women get it, some don't. It isn't about splitting pennies and withholding, it's about being on equal footing in a relationship. Women who get it just come right out and offer to pay their share. There's no arm twisting or arguing involved.

That's one reason I prefer women with decent careers, they tend to be the ones that understand.

A lot of guys say they don't mind paying your way because they think that's what you want to hear, but just wait until your first argument. I guarantee you'll hear a different tune then.
 mjinict
Joined: 8/13/2008
Msg: 248
view profile
History
Women's Financial Status
Posted: 4/8/2012 8:06:08 PM
A lot of guys say they don't mind paying your way because they think that's what you want to hear, but just wait until your first argument. I guarantee you'll hear a different tune then
--------------
So you think all guys share your views. I don't think so. Some men are more generous than others. Could be how they were raised, could be because they can better afford it, or they have a generous nature and are really smitten, who knows. But there are all types of mens views and variables on the subject.
 TryAgan
Joined: 4/4/2008
Msg: 249
view profile
History
Women's Financial Status
Posted: 4/8/2012 8:17:46 PM

Some men are more generous than others

Yes, that's true. Yet some people might think of another adjective.
 largo2
Joined: 12/13/2011
Msg: 250
Women's Financial Status
Posted: 4/8/2012 8:38:15 PM
Yanno, I don't make 75% of what men in my chosen field make, my pay is equal to theirs. Why would I expect them to pay my way?

Its fun treating someone to an evening out, and it is fun being treated. It must be very tiresome always paying for someone else, I would imagine, especially when dating someone who is practically a stranger. Especially if they have an attitude of entitlement.
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