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 rearguard*2
Joined: 2/8/2008
Msg: 26
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Women's Financial StatusPage 2 of 27    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27)

If money matters more than love then the relationship is screwed anyway no matter what else.


Nice dream. However, I do think that the "love is everything" is the result of years of building a life together. To start one up, you need the cash to at least pay bus fare over to see her, and probably more than that if you really expect to make any progress. I hardly think that money is everything in a relationship, but, at least in the early stages, it plays a big part in how things develop....
 Moonchild51
Joined: 3/11/2007
Msg: 27
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Women's Financial Status
Posted: 7/29/2008 9:20:15 AM

Do your beads match your toolbelt", financially speaking, that is


Oh my good God! lmao...Some folks simply have such a way with words.!!!!!
 Henry L. Moon
Joined: 6/1/2008
Msg: 28
Women's Financial Status
Posted: 7/29/2008 9:25:47 AM
lol@ do your beads match your toolbelt.......and to steal a quote....."I don't care WHO ya are...That's funny!!"
 Rythmn
Joined: 1/21/2006
Msg: 29
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Women's Financial Status
Posted: 7/29/2008 10:58:58 AM
well rearguard2, most of the men i meet are struggling or they think i can be bought or impressed with their assets. i've lived the razzle dazzle life and right now i am looking for a person's "character" and "warmth". that assumes chemical attraction of course. i can do this because i am self sufficient within "my" definition and like the person above, this does not include a whole lot more than living comfortably within my means.

most of the people in this world are struggling, as well as the usa average citizen. i do not lead a fancy life anymore and yet compared to the national average, i am still upper middle. but in a high cost of living area, this brings me down in CA per se. one of the confusions is that way too many millionaires (i lose that term loosely) have recently "cropped up" and the middle brackets are lowering. when the ecomomy goes down, the millionaires "crack up". kind of wonder if it was stamina that brought them there, inflated and arrogant industrial practices or maybe momentary luck?

so, this really has nothing to do with men or women. both groups can whine about lack of fairness "after it is over". but they all entered willingly into contracts with whatever laws surrounded those contracts. men make more on the average in the past. professional women tend to hold their own when compared to men in the same field. discrepancies in income often have to do with the kind of jobs, couples are holding individually. in the past, men tended to marry lower income women and more and more women nowadays have married lower income men. some seek to share a level playing field and then there are no discrepencies upon divorce.

here in CA, alimony is hard to come by for any duration (compared to other states) and i was happy to waive it with an ex who consistently could not hold down a job (despite his "rare" high salary) and who would not have made it w/o my income while continuing to live in a "home". child support is child support. in CA, it is appalling and unlike other states, parents who can "afford it", still are not "required" to put their children though college.

so many women support men via jobs through medical school or while married and raising families. what this would cost a "family man" if the woman died has been priced out at way past a middle manager income. so, yes, some men and some women do get screwed and the system goes round in that you need to afford an attorney to win one's case--but everyone has a sob story. everyone has made his/her own bed within the laws of where they willingly decided to "marry".

the person above made a very good point as to what one's mortage is nowadays. there are people in my area, who bought homes 30 years ago for a song and then there are those of us who moved here recently and bought way too high--this is one of the highest cost of living areas in the usa. then on top of that, they tax in CA upon purchase price, so i get to pay for services "annually" that are received by another person (for a song), who bought their home for 20 percent less than my cost and whose value may be 2x-2x the value of mine. therefore upon sale, they are the richer.

there are so many different scenarios. people with low incomes owning homes, people who just rent rooms and manage other people's households for them, people whose assets are frozen in the economy and who cannot "afford" to sell, people who have lived in their current homes for eons and are now financially free but "stuck" in their small towns, people with cash flow, people who overspend.

there is no way, one can determine all this w/o prolonged observation of behavior and if you are going to get married, FULL DISCLOSURE and definite pre-nup agreements are in order. i have had two divorces and neither of them focused around money. that is because, although i took risks and moved around, i still knew where my money was at and what was due/fair to the two of us when we broke up. i was dam-ed if some attorney was going to get his half of whatever we put together.

so, if a person is hard working, not in debt that could affect my FICO, living lower then me and not after my money or vice versa, willing to pitch in, do other things, so be it. if more than me, as long as our lifestyles meld, so be it. not looking to spend his money or mine w/o good reason. just looking for peace and joy and laughter.
 rearguard*2
Joined: 2/8/2008
Msg: 30
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Women's Financial Status
Posted: 7/29/2008 12:40:16 PM

" Do your beads match your toolbelt"


Okay! I will send a pic of me wearing my tool belt with me holding up a copy of my latest bank statement. Unfortunately, I don't have a tool belt with beads on it...I am a "real man" type of guy......
 jsphn11
Joined: 12/24/2007
Msg: 31
Women's Financial Status
Posted: 7/29/2008 12:41:33 PM

I'll tell you what, if you can pay your bills, I'll pay for dinners and holidays. lol. That's all I ask. In fact, that's all normal everyday people (men & women) look for.

That's what I ask for too
However, in reality I can't get rid of the situations when I am expected to pay in order to date. Since my mortgage is still a huge part of my monthly income I have to budget my other expenses in order to not get into debts, and am very successful in that. So, I am getting the attitude that I should participate financially 50/50, otherwise I am a gold-digger.

Very confusing, especially y since I was raised with traditional values in relationships.
 Moonchild51
Joined: 3/11/2007
Msg: 32
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Women's Financial Status
Posted: 7/29/2008 1:16:42 PM

Unfortunately, I don't have a tool belt with beads on it...I am a "real man" type of guy......


Now just how come I can't get the YMCA song out of my head?????
 justwant2no
Joined: 11/14/2007
Msg: 33
Women's Financial Status
Posted: 7/29/2008 1:37:25 PM
I was upfront with my SO, I told him flat out; I ain't no sugar momma - this here's all smoke and mirrors! I've got a great house (that was bought three years ago - that has a HELOC and deteriorating value - that I had to buy my ex out of) but I'm mortgaged to the hilt. Can't sell, or I'd be upside down. I've got a good job, but no disposable income, just a boatload of debt. But nobody has to pay for me. It's my hole. I dug it, and I'll dig it out. I suppose to some that makes me a liability. Fortunately neither I nor my SO look at it that way. Our finances are separate, and that's fine too. I'm not looking for anyone to pay my way, and I kinda resent the inferrence that if I'm not well off, or completely out of debt, I'm some sort of pariah. Eh, their loss I say.
 jsphn11
Joined: 12/24/2007
Msg: 34
Women's Financial Status
Posted: 7/29/2008 3:48:01 PM

I always was told if you do not have enough money to buy something you do not put it on your credit card and you wait until you have enough.

I agree, that's a golden rule to keep us all out of trouble.


...are you suggesting they pay for the privilege of dating a woman???
It seems too many woman have a similar view of having problems sticking their hand in their wallet when the bills arrives.

No, I am saying that you should only date women who share your views in that department, or not date at all. You can't expect those "too many women" change their views because you would like them to.


Where is the line between traditional values that woman do not pay,, and gold diggers?

My opinion only. Gold-diggers are the ones who look for a sugar daddy to support their life in all aspects. A man paing on a date and picking up a woman doesn't fall into that category.
 rubygrl
Joined: 6/18/2007
Msg: 35
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Women's Financial Status
Posted: 7/29/2008 6:23:36 PM
WOW!!!! I have read thru this entire thread. There are a few points in here that do make me think about how I have felt in the past. However, I can only speak for me at this point. If I ask a man out then I expect to pay for the outing. If he asks me out then I would expect for him to pay. I am not saying that I ask him out on an equal basis, that is just not the case. However, I do enjoy having a gentleman come over and I will buy the meat (no hamburger helper either) and I will cook it up. All he needs to do is join me in my home for a nice dinner and good company. I enjoy that much more anyway than going out all the time. The main problem with that is when it does happen 99% of the time they think I am inviting them over because I want sex. THAT PISSES ME OFF!!! I refuse to stop inviting a gentleman over (after I have gone out with him a few times of course) because of that concept.

As far as balanced finacially...I might be alittle bit harder on men in this case. I expect a man to be able to support himself now and in retirement. I went thru hell getting things in order for me with regards to this area. We had to give each other 50% of our retirements in the divorce. I did my part and gave him his....he still refuses to follow the order and give me what is due me. That means my own account is extremely short at this point. I bought his arse out of the house because he was stupid. I wanted him to have the house and everything that went with it. I waited till the very last moment. He would have let it be sold, due to other circumstances that was not an option I was willing to look at. So I paid him off a very large amount of money. He found out his little country wife wasn't as dumb as he thought.

Now the alimony thingy.....THAT is what hit me. Married for almost 20yrs. He goes to school (out of town none the less) and wifey takes care of everything at home. Works her job so she is home to see the kiddos off to school and there when they get home. Turns down promotions "because it doesn't work with his schooling" drops out of college herself "because he can't handle the kids" so he increases in marketabilty the entire marriage and his paycheck goes up and up. He says his retirement is much better so we put lots of money in his acct and very little in my acct. Wifey enjoys the benefits of that and forgets about all the minor inconviences she made in her personal life because she wanted to.

Divorce time comes...he has a hissy fit because HE is the one who earned all the money and she just took care of the house and the babies. BUT he says she works and is able to support herself so why should I have to pay her anything. By this time she is past her prime to really get into the business world where she can make as much as he does or just close. She is not stupid nor is she lazy, But why should she have to continue to give up her future security (not that there is much there cuz it all went into HIS retirement remember) Alimony is not given because it is the law or it is the right thing to do. It is given because of the longevity of the marriage and the unbalance of the money earned along with the comfort level of life one is giving up.

And just for the record alimony is given to men too. So what I can say is prenup---yes
pay for vacations----if I ask you to go I am going to pay. Support you--- not a chance in hell. Work with you 50/50 ---you bet, I would do everything I could to balance things evenly. At our age the rules of the game have changed. No bitterness anymore and no ugly feelings about alimony either.
 Henry L. Moon
Joined: 6/1/2008
Msg: 36
Women's Financial Status
Posted: 7/29/2008 6:52:48 PM
Right ON.....that made sense....it wasn't whining, grasping or harping...it was well thought out and intelligent and something a man can respect.
 rubygrl
Joined: 6/18/2007
Msg: 37
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Women's Financial Status
Posted: 7/29/2008 8:00:18 PM
sam-spade, thank you for the confidence boost. Everyone needs one once in awhile. Maybe I should clarify. I love my job, been there going on 24yrs now. I have no intention of leaving it. I make ok money now that I have had the opportunities to advance after the divorce and the babies were gone (and took a few). What I am saying is for me to advance further in my career at this point would require me to go back to college (which I would have to pay for upfront with 50% back with a "B" ave) then I could promote. This would give me maybe a couple $ an hour in a raise and then work 50-60 hours a week. OR go to another company with my degree and start all over with the vacation (I get 4-5 weeks a year) senority (work shit shifts again?) After balancing everything out. 1. I would have a college loan to pay back 2. work my arse off for a couple bucks more 3. take the promotion and work all Holidays (cuz managemnt needs to be there then too). I needed to make that move 15 years ago to be benefitting from it now. It is not worth it to me at this point. I work the hours I want and take vacation whenever I want to. And I make more than most of the managers do now. Still does not mean I should just walk away from over 20yrs of hard work in the marriage and at work.
 Moonchild51
Joined: 3/11/2007
Msg: 38
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Women's Financial Status
Posted: 7/29/2008 8:24:47 PM
Ruby? Kudos to you from one gal who has been there and most definately done that!
But ya know what? Our type picks up our socks and move on! I did it and surely you will as well! Just have to hang in there and give it your all.

Dating at our age does present its issues. I have found men who earn a darned good living but we still split things out. I have also found men even at my age who have no desire to earn a living period. I did that for 16 years and I choose not to do it again. If I can haul arse daily, so can the man I am involved with. I do in fact understand child support and his having to try and maintain some form of life, so I am more than happy to go half way. In this day and age, it is more than understandable!
 rubygrl
Joined: 6/18/2007
Msg: 39
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Women's Financial Status
Posted: 7/29/2008 8:30:58 PM
I am totally ok and comfortable with who and where I am. But I was thinking that if a guy wanted to take me to dinner in Paris this Friday.....yea I would let him pay.
 Henry L. Moon
Joined: 6/1/2008
Msg: 40
Women's Financial Status
Posted: 7/29/2008 8:52:24 PM
That's one hell of a first date!...I'd opt out to stay the entire weekend
 Sapphireeyes
Joined: 1/13/2008
Msg: 41
Women's Financial Status
Posted: 7/30/2008 2:18:03 AM
This issue really strikes a nerve with me, I hate it when a man throws that he has money at me...it is insulting.

I hate going on a date and asking if they would like me to pay for my part or leave a tip and they act like I just cursed them out but then later on they act like I OWE them something for the dinner that I just attempted to pay for.

I think you can do alot of things that dont cost alot...ie lunch at a park, taking a walk around a lake, there are music festivals or some type of festival going on most weekends. I have two kids that I am the only support of, so I see me spending money to go out with someone as taking money away from them. I would rather do something inexpensive and get to know someone than burden either of us with a expense dinner and yet I have had men volunteer to fly in and take me to dinner and it just totally amazes me that they are willing to do that...just in some ways doesnt seem sane.
 justwant2no
Joined: 11/14/2007
Msg: 42
Women's Financial Status
Posted: 7/30/2008 6:19:56 AM
I don't know who brought it up - but someone made a good point about us ladies fixing dinner for our man! I pay for all the groceries and prepare most of the meals... I've been known to pull out all the stops on more than one occassion - bottle of wine,****ails, appetizers, dessert, the whole nine yards! ... come to think of it, he owes me some dinners out!
I guess what I'm saying is; I think most of us are in agreement that no one wants to get involved with someone who is financially unstable, unable to cover their own needs and requires 'being saved'. It seems like the breakdown comes with the idea of 'the extras' - vacations, extravagant outings, retirement. That's where things get dicey.
 Moonchild51
Joined: 3/11/2007
Msg: 43
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Posted: 7/30/2008 9:34:26 AM
^^^^Now you stop that crying honey!
By your post, you have done very well for yourself! We have all had our financial setbacks and have done our best to recover from them. Look at all you have accomplished and be proud. Anyone ever says something to me about what I supposedly "should have" at this stage of my life, can kiss my patootie!
 jsphn11
Joined: 12/24/2007
Msg: 44
Women's Financial Status
Posted: 7/30/2008 10:00:18 AM

Subsitute the word women for men and I believe you'll have the answer you seek.

That is exactly what I am doing. BTW, I don't seek any answers. I've already figured that out some time ago.
 catman40
Joined: 5/20/2007
Msg: 45
Women's Financial Status
Posted: 7/31/2008 4:42:06 AM
it's hard for me to let a woman pay . My ex ALWAYS EXPEXCTED me to pay . I am 42 never married . no kids . I make $7 an hour . I am happy . I know some who make $10 and are NOT happy . ladies , let it flow . most of us men don't care if , you can pay for us to go to paris . all we really like is for YOU to be with us .
 Henry L. Moon
Joined: 6/1/2008
Msg: 46
Women's Financial Status
Posted: 8/1/2008 7:18:14 AM
I'm just a simple bead salesman
 classic-man
Joined: 9/9/2006
Msg: 47
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Posted: 8/4/2008 8:08:48 AM
I am going to play the devils advicate here, I have dated women with out money and dated women with money -it not what you have in finicial assets and securities in your life but how you "MANAGE IT"

In a dating relationship one learns how the others --S/O -- respects money by thier spending habits? The "KEY" is to watch and observe the others spending habits to see if they balance with your- a misser and a misser will be compatable - yet a spender and a misser won't work-- in some atmospheres!

The outcry that Its my money when I earn it and its your money when you earn it in a marriage is self centered and can ruin a realtionship with out common goals and investments for the future? A off balanced financial atmosphere is very common today in many relationship and marriages!

I have expereinced women wanting to" BUY" their way in a loving ralationship - which shouldn't work at all? Nor a man shouldn't buy their way in a relationship- the key again is respect the assets of the other - try to compromise on the value of the dollar --each to their own about their attitude of fininacial stability and status.

I am a firm believer that what i come into a relationship is mine in the long run (depending on the number of offspring on each side) and yours is yours in the long run (at our age in time)! What we gain in a permanent (marriage )relationship is ours gained by mutual respect and goals- till the misfortune - of a separation of any kind be ---it divorce or death! I wish the courts saw it that away but sometimes --somewhere the courts went astray? JMHO
 c_deacon
Joined: 3/13/2005
Msg: 48
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Women's Financial Status
Posted: 8/4/2008 10:32:05 AM
Having a huge house and a huge debt with the mortgage does not make one financially secure, nor does driving that expensive car that you must make payment on each and every month.

The financial status of a potential is important as we mature and potentially have more because time and work has allowed that to happen. It is not the only item to look at, nor is it the main one, but we are all deceiving ourselves if we deny the fact that being financially secure is important for both genders.

I guess what is important will be the quality of the one I am interested in and all that is a part of that person, including finances.......

Just as I look to see if the one I am interested in wants to have more children, I will also be interested in knowing if that person can hold their own financially with me as well. I do not want to start another family, and I do not want to have to begin at the ground up dealing with debt and financial insecurity.

I am at the age that having a decent retirement is important, liquidity of assets that are available, health insurance that is maintained and available long term, little credit card debt, and a rating that is sufficient that you do not need another to help you make it, because you can not on your own.

Just as most women will look to see if the one they are very interested in can hold his own financially, and support the relationship equally if not more......many men will do the same because equality is really what we want, and not control.

Just my opinion........
 GEOSCH
Joined: 8/9/2008
Msg: 49
Women's Financial Status
Posted: 8/18/2008 5:29:57 PM
I am the type of guy that does not care what you have. I dont care if you make $4 an hour and live at home with mom. I would sign any pre nup I dont want your house, car, money. I just want a loving relationship.
 infennario
Joined: 5/24/2011
Msg: 50
Women's Financial Status
Posted: 3/25/2012 11:32:20 AM

So, I am getting the attitude that I should participate financially 50/50, otherwise I am a gold-digger.


Yes, me too.

What a great thread this is. I feel so much better after reading some of the posts in this thread. It’s wonderful to remember that I’m not alone, especially after encountering so much judgment and condemnation from some men in the 50-65 age range because I don’t have financial assets accumulated comparable to theirs. It was because of different priorities, that I am proud of and don’t regret. I’m not in debt, and not looking for a sugar daddy at all! But to be labelled a gold-digger because a man with similar education, career and family has more than I do at this stage of the game, is to miss some really big pieces of the puzzle. It’s just not an either/or black/white equation. Good thread.
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