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Show ALL Forums  > Politics  > Illegal Immigration and The Upcoming Election: What Impact will it ha      Home login  
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 Ready4SomethingFun
Joined: 3/17/2008
Msg: 240
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Illegal Immigration and The Upcoming Election: What Impact will it havePage 11 of 16    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16)

Get ready because I am fairly sure that illegal immigration is next on President Obama's agenda


Is it going to be a program to send them back to their countries of origin or a program to give them all amnesty? If it's the former you will see me 100% percent behind our president on it, if it's the later:
 Imported_labor
Joined: 3/7/2008
Msg: 241
Illegal Immigration and The Upcoming Election: What Impact will it have
Posted: 8/17/2009 4:49:35 PM

.....our border patrol has been ordered not to stop them again or lose your job. 500,000 crossed since Jan. 1


Source please when giving out facts! Unless it is an opinion?


and they get preferential treatment in schools jobs home loans . they can 100%loan to buy farms here and the government well paid for all equipment they need to operate them


Same as above, source is needed to determine if this is fact or fiction!


but you white folks CAN,T .. act now to stop them don,t let up on the government vote them out if they say they are going to vote for amnesty . when the illegals are gone there are still 15 ,000,000 here legally . and they can ask for permission to migrate here but we really don,t have a big need for illiterates here right now .


I guess that part is self-explanatory. I know a lot of whites that are illiterate also, and here in this board I have seen a lot of people who can type but they are, for most practical purposes, intellectually illiterate. You just gave us proof!
 EarlzP
Joined: 12/9/2007
Msg: 242
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Illegal Immigration and The Upcoming Election: What Impact will it have
Posted: 8/17/2009 5:59:04 PM

So Earl, do you know what his plan is for illegal immigration? Frankly I think this should have been at the top of his "to do" list.


No I don't understand why but he has not consulted me, yet. But I am sure no matter how he wants to deal with illegal immigration the republicans will not support him. Maybe he should do what the republican party did about health care and illegal immigration, nothing
 Ready4SomethingFun
Joined: 3/17/2008
Msg: 243
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Illegal Immigration and The Upcoming Election: What Impact will it have
Posted: 8/18/2009 3:05:59 AM

No I don't understand why but he has not consulted me, yet.




I think what was implied there though is, you made the statement in response to my previous post that Obama would be undertaking the illegal immigration problem soon, so you might possibly have some inkling of what his position might be.


But I am sure no matter how he wants to deal with illegal immigration the republicans will not support him.


I can't speak for all republicans, nor do I wish to, but if Obama goes after amnesty you will find me in the thumbs down group, as usual. But if he goes toward border enforcement and deportation you will probably find more dems than republicans on the opposing side. I would be in the cheering section on that move.



Maybe he should do what the republican party did about health care and illegal immigration, nothing


Maybe he will, but, as far as illegal immigration goes, there really wasn't a whole lot of outcry in the public sector until unemployment started rising, which would have been, oh, let's turn back the clock, AFTER the democrats took the majorities in the house and senate in 2006. People usually don't worry too much about stuff until it starts personally affecting them, unfortunetly, and now this is, so now would be the time to act.
 Imported_labor
Joined: 3/7/2008
Msg: 244
Illegal Immigration and The Upcoming Election: What Impact will it have
Posted: 8/18/2009 4:00:20 PM

People usually don't worry too much about stuff until it starts personally affecting them, unfortunetly, and now this is, so now would be the time to act.


Well, it looks like they have been acting:


Armed federal immigration agents have illegally pushed and shoved their way into homes in New York and New Jersey in hundreds of predawn raids that violated their own agency rules as well as the Constitution, according to a study to be released on Wednesday by the Benjamin N. Cardozo School of Law.

The study by the school’s Immigration Justice Law Clinic, backed by several law enforcement experts including Nassau County’s police commissioner, found a widespread pattern of misconduct by agents from Immigration and Customs Enforcement after analyzing 700 arrest reports obtained from the agency through Freedom of Information lawsuits.

The raids were supposed to focus on dangerous criminals, but overwhelmingly netted Latinos with civil immigration violations who happened to be present, the study said. Raiders mistakenly held legal residents and citizens by force in their own homes while agents rummaged through drawers seeking incriminating documents, the report said.

Acting without judicial search warrants, the agents were required to obtain informed consent from a resident before they entered a private residence. But the study found that in 86 percent of the Nassau and Suffolk County arrest reports that it analyzed, and a quarter of the New Jersey cases, no consent was recorded.


By the looks of it their actions are based very much in racism! I hope the Obama administration will change that. People who lack a strong moral character shouldn't be given an incentive to violate people's constitutional rights.
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 245
Illegal Immigration and The Upcoming Election: What Impact will it have
Posted: 8/18/2009 5:05:53 PM
Buddy, you kind of need to learn a new tune.

How many times have you posted this same thing anyway?
 RUMISSINGMEYET
Joined: 7/31/2006
Msg: 246
Illegal Immigration and The Upcoming Election: What Impact will it have
Posted: 8/18/2009 5:21:31 PM
Till idiots like you get the message. Me and my Billion dollar corporate friends have pulled out all of our manufacturing assets (and cash assets) and sent them to Asia. We are leaving you people to fend for yourselfs. You better get the big picture soon.
We are going to set on our new homes front porches on the exotic white sand ocean fronts in Asia. And watch you crash and burn what was once our home american dream country.
 geeleebee
Joined: 5/26/2008
Msg: 247
Illegal Immigration and The Upcoming Election: What Impact will it have
Posted: 8/18/2009 5:30:29 PM

Till idiots like you get the message. Me and my Billion dollar corporate friends have pulled out all of our manufacturing assets (and cash assets) and sent them to Asia. We are leaving you people to fend for yourselfs. You better get the big picture soon.
We are going to set on our new homes front porches on the exotic white sand ocean fronts in Asia. And watch you crash and burn what was once our home american dream country.


Oh. Dear.

You do realize, don't you, that your rude remarks are being made to a gentleman from Canada? And that making remarks like that can get you banned?

You just go on and 'set' on your front porch, and leave the rest of us to fend for 'ourselfs'. In the meantime, MY billion-dollar corporate friends are staying right here.
 Imported_labor
Joined: 3/7/2008
Msg: 248
Illegal Immigration and The Upcoming Election: What Impact will it have
Posted: 8/19/2009 8:49:06 AM

Till idiots like you get the message. Me and my Billion dollar corporate friends have pulled out all of our manufacturing assets (and cash assets) and sent them to Asia. We are leaving you people to fend for yourselfs. You better get the big picture soon.
We are going to set on our new homes front porches on the exotic white sand ocean fronts in Asia. And watch you crash and burn what was once our home american dream country.


You are nothung but an ignorant troll!

Either that or, if we are to go by what you are saying, you are one of the traitorous corporate sharks that have exported millions of good paying American jobs to countries where you can more easily exploit the workers by bribing the corrupt government officials?

Explain to us, if you can, what is "the big picture"? Somehow I doubt it that you have what it takes to accomplish that task.

Anyone who has followed this discussion would know that there are different points of view regarding the issue of costs/benefits related to the participation of the "illegal" workers in the USA economy. Any points of view that help us understand the complexities of the issue are welcomed. The posts that are placed in here just to inflame the racial hate, such as your message # 363, belong in the extreme right-wing forums where you extracted it from to cut and paste it here. Most of the links for verification of the information are unavailable, and the ones that are available are the right-wing sites that don't offer any sources for verification of their allegations.

Here is an excerpt of an old article that should give you some idea of both sides on the impact of the "illegal" workers on the USA economy.


Illegal workers: good for U.S. economy
The U.S. has benefited from illegal immigrants, most economists say, though some low-skilled workers have been hurt.
By Chris Isidore, CNNMoney.com senior writer
May 1, 2006: 3:08 PM EDT

A crackdown in illegal immigration in 2004 caused a shortage of workers needed to bring in the lettuce crop in the Western United States, said Powell, which he said caused a $1 billion loss for the industry as many growers had to leave their fields unharvested.

"To hire Americans to do it, they would have had to raise wages so far, it wouldn't have been worth it for them," said Powell at the Independent Institute. "It caused less of a loss to leave the crop to rot."

As for complaints that many critics of immigration cite - demand for social and government services by immigrants - most economists believe that is outweighed by the increased economic activity, even if some specific school districts or public hospitals struggle with the costs associated serving the immigrant community.


The complete article is available at this link:

http://money.cnn.com/2006/05/01/news/economy/immigration_economy/index.htm
 Ready4SomethingFun
Joined: 3/17/2008
Msg: 249
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Illegal Immigration and The Upcoming Election: What Impact will it have
Posted: 8/19/2009 9:06:21 AM

you are one of the traitorous corporate sharks that have exported millions of good paying American jobs to countries where you can more easily exploit the workers by bribing the corrupt government officials


Whoa, slow down with the venom for a sec, and think about it. Our own government by allowing illegal aliens to work here is part of the direct cause of this. If Business A is trying to be legitimate and do things on the up and up, Business B is hiring illegals and paying them 30% to 50% less in wages, then he is going to put Business A OUT of business.
 Imported_labor
Joined: 3/7/2008
Msg: 250
Illegal Immigration and The Upcoming Election: What Impact will it have
Posted: 8/19/2009 10:48:12 AM
Whoa, slow down with the venom for a sec, and think about it. Our own government by allowing illegal aliens to work here is part of the direct cause of this. If Business A is trying to be legitimate and do things on the up and up, Business B is hiring illegals and paying them 30% to 50% less in wages, then he is going to put Business A OUT of business.


Interesting how one of the loudest proponents of cracking down on the illegal aliens comes out so fast to defend a troll posing as a corporate traitor who exports American jobs overseas!

Let's use the brain muscle here! Are you saying that the blue-collar and white-collar jobs that are being exported by the profit-hungry troglodites are jobs that the "illegal aliens" are performing for other corporations here in the USA? And that is the reason why the corporate traitors are exporting the American jobs to other countries?

Wow, those "illegal aliens," as you call them, must be very fast learners. I just checked this forum and I found that in message # 291, March 2008 you were saying that they weren't able to do much more than labor in agricultural, janitorial and contruction demolition companies.


Illegals don't do much building according to what I read, they do the vegetable picking, janitorial work and in construction are mostly on the demolition and clean up crews. (message # 291)


If now you are saying that the "illegals" took the type of American jobs that the corporations unable to compete here in the USA exported to more friendly shores, then you would have to agree that those "illegals" aren't that illiterate like the brainless post in message # 356 says they are.
 Ready4SomethingFun
Joined: 3/17/2008
Msg: 251
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Illegal Immigration and The Upcoming Election: What Impact will it have
Posted: 8/19/2009 11:10:30 AM

Wow, those "illegal aliens," as you call them, must be very fast learners. I just checked this forum and I found that in message # 291, March 2008 you were saying that they weren't able to do much more than labor in agricultural, janitorial and contruction demolition companies.


First off, when did I say they were illiterate? I did say they were mostly doing jobs that "no one else wanted" but that was a reiteration of the line that most pro-illegal proponents use to justify their reason for being here. I have learned many things since this thread was buried for several months and some things have changed. Such as finding out illegals are working in assembly lines and factories. They are working as plumbers and electricians--poorly I might add--most of what I read usually ends with someone having to re-do the cheap or sub-code level of work performed.

I actually did re-read much of this thread since it's reappearance and I don't see myself ever calling them anything other than illegals and felons. But I will admit much has changed since March of 2008, and if you read further into the thread, much of it was acknowledged right in this thread.


Let's use the brain muscle here! Are you saying that the blue-collar and white-collar jobs that are being exported by the profit-hungry troglodites are jobs that the "illegal aliens" are performing for other corporations here in the USA? And that is the reason why the corporate traitors are exporting the American jobs to other countries?


To some extent, yep, I sure am. Not so much white collar, but yes, blue collar. I honestly don't think that many white collar jobs are going overseas, if they are, the ones working those jobs are probably going with them. Unfortunetly, if a comapny wants to stay legal, the overseas move is, but hiring illegals is not.


If now you are saying that the "illegals" took the type of American jobs that the corporations unable to compete here in the USA exported to more friendly shores, then you would have to agree that those "illegals" aren't that illiterate like the brainless post in message # 356 says they are.


Most of this is answered above, and I'm not saying it is a problem across the board, but it does contribute to the problem as do a lot of other factors. The reasons companies move to other countries is: cheaper labor and cheaper taxes. The illegals can be considered a factor in the former and government a factor in the later. Well, government is a factor in both actually.
 Imported_labor
Joined: 3/7/2008
Msg: 252
Illegal Immigration and The Upcoming Election: What Impact will it have
Posted: 8/19/2009 3:33:22 PM

First off, when did I say they were illiterate?


I didn't say that you did, did I? So that won't work to put me in a defensive mood here. I did say:


you would have to agree that those "illegals" aren't that illiterate like the brainless post in message # 356 says they are.


That wasn't your post, so that sentence doesn't refer to your posts. However, I don't hear any voices coming from the right-wing, republican side calling for moderation in the discourse here. Someone has to tell those posters placing messages here only to express their hate that we know better, and that we will expose their ignorance and bad faith.


To some extent, yep, I sure am. Not so much white collar, but yes, blue collar. I honestly don't think that many white collar jobs are going overseas, if they are, the ones working those jobs are probably going with them. Unfortunetly, if a comapny wants to stay legal, the overseas move is, but hiring illegals is not


I hate to break the old news to you, but the off-shoring of American white-collar jobs has been a problem for a long while. It seems to me that you haven't been keeping an eye on the moves of the corporate sharks. Don't be surprised when you call the customer service department for your credit card company, and the person who answers speaks english with a heavy accent. If you ask, you would be surprised to know that you are talking to someone in India, or another country that welcomes the American jobs.

Here is an excerpt from an old article:


U.S. Companies Defend Export of White-Collar Jobs: 'No God-Given Right'
NewsMax.com Wires
Wednesday, Jan. 7, 2004
WASHINGTON – Worried about possible government reaction to the movement of U.S. technology jobs overseas, leading American computer companies are defending recent shifts in employment to Asia and elsewhere as necessary for future profits and warning policy makers against restrictions.
"There is no job that is America's God-given right anymore," said Carly Fiorina, chief executive for Hewlett-Packard Co. "We have to compete for jobs."

In a report released Wednesday, the companies said government efforts to preserve American jobs through limits on overseas trade would backfire and "could lead to retaliation from our trading partners and even an all-out trade war."


The complete article is found at

http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/1/7/144142.shtml
 Ready4SomethingFun
Joined: 3/17/2008
Msg: 253
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Illegal Immigration and The Upcoming Election: What Impact will it have
Posted: 8/19/2009 3:51:57 PM

So that won't work to put me in a defensive mood here.


Not my modus operandi. I think you are in a defensive mood all throughout this thread, but that is a matter of opinion, I don't try to put anyone on the defensive. We've had too many conversations within this thread for me to start it now. I agree 357 is somewhat a troll post, but there is a smidgen of truth that lies within it.


However, I don't hear any voices coming from the right-wing, republican side calling for moderation in the discourse here. Someone has to tell those posters placing messages here only to express their hate that we know better, and that we will expose their ignorance and bad faith.


No arguement there. If I walk into a thread at post 357 and start an arguement I would expect the same. My only defense of post 357 is it has a few minor truths within in. I think was abundantly clear on the part I agreed with.


I hate to break the old news to you, but the off-shoring of American white-collar jobs has been a problem for a long while. It seems to me that you haven't been keeping an eye on the moves of the corporate sharks. Don't be surprised when you call the customer service department for your credit card company, and the person who answers speaks english with a heavy accent. If you ask, you would be surprised to know that you are talking to someone in India, or another country that welcomes the American jobs.


You are right, I didn't even think about call centers, and I hate them to no end, I was thinking more along the types of office workers and the like. I think we should make companies move them back here and let illegals man them.

Just kidding, I have pretty much stated from the beginning of my joined this thread that we need to get our companies back in this country. But I can bet you about a trillion dollars that you and I will not agree upon the method that it could be done. And that method is to lower the corporate taxes. This gets dems in an instant uproar when I say it, but aren't jobs one of our main concerns right now? Won't the workers be paying taxes? Well, lower corporate taxes is a small price to pay to get jobs to return, but many would rather just have no jobs.
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 254
Illegal Immigration and The Upcoming Election: What Impact will it have
Posted: 8/19/2009 4:40:20 PM
Alright, I'll bite. How would lower corporate taxes bring jobs back?

Seems to me that lower corporate taxes would tend to be an incentive to send more jobs offshore. See, taxes are paid on profits; jobs are sent offshore for lower costs; lower costs means more profits. So, if taxes are set at a higher level, the cost/benefit analysis of off shore jobs includes the extra taxes they would pay - the lower the corporate tax rate the more incentive to build off shore.

And of course, lower corporate taxes ultimately destroys the infrastructure that makes the US worth doing business in - less help for the needy means more crime; less education funding means fewer qualified workers; less law enforcement in every field means more pollution, crime, fraud, etc; physical infrastructure falling apart.
 Ready4SomethingFun
Joined: 3/17/2008
Msg: 255
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Illegal Immigration and The Upcoming Election: What Impact will it have
Posted: 8/19/2009 10:46:37 PM

Seems to me that lower corporate taxes would tend to be an incentive to send more jobs offshore. See, taxes are paid on profits


Then would you mind telling me what the incentive would be that will bring them back? Raising taxes?

All I see are companies moving to countries where there are little or no corporate taxes, and those countries seem to welcome them with open arms.




And of course, lower corporate taxes ultimately destroys the infrastructure that makes the US worth doing business in - less help for the needy means more crime; less education funding means fewer qualified workers; less law enforcement in every field means more pollution, crime, fraud, etc; physical infrastructure falling apart.


I think it would depend on how many employees that corporation employs. If they have 1500 employees, then surely those 1500 people paying taxes is better than if the corporation isn't here at all. Get 50 or 60 of those companies back and you have less needy. And more people working means less crime (except those unwilling to work and they are going to be a problem no matter what), more paid into schools (and no one is going to stop buying lottery tickets and going to casinos regardless--that is big source of school funding), less need for law enforcement, not sure about the less pollution---how exactly does less law enforcement mean more pollution? Do you mean less EPA? Whoopee, if there is no business to begin with they aren't needed anyways, if there is then let them double up on their workforce, see they can hire more people too, when they are out there fining more businesses for violations. I think if you go look at any town that is now a ghost town due to corporations fleeing the scene (see Detroit, or my good old hometown, Dayton Ohio) you'll see plenty of infrastucture falling apart.

But I guess some people would rather see no business at all if they can't fleece the owners. Damn the citizens who'd actually like to work for a living, if the corporations aren't willing to pay for the lazy who don't.

Not to mention, since this a thread about illegal aliens, aren't willing to pay for their well-being when they shouldn't even be here.
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 256
Illegal Immigration and The Upcoming Election: What Impact will it have
Posted: 8/19/2009 11:01:57 PM
It's not corporate taxes that are causing jobs to move overseas.

In fact the places jobs are moving to have higher corporate taxes. They do have lower wages. Unless you're seeing factories setting up in Andora, the Cayman Islands or Lichtenstein.....well, you're just plain wrong. See, General Electric doesn't pay corporate taxes in Indonesia or India because it files it's corporate taxes in America.

So explain to me how lowering the tax rate will incentivize GE to fire up the factories in America again.

I know the kneejerk reaction on the right is always to lower taxes, but you kind of have to take the blinders off when you're outside a circle of true believers.
 Ready4SomethingFun
Joined: 3/17/2008
Msg: 257
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Illegal Immigration and The Upcoming Election: What Impact will it have
Posted: 8/20/2009 12:11:21 AM

It's not corporate taxes that are causing jobs to move overseas.


Damn these liars!!!



http://www.eagleforum.org/column/2007/may07/07-05-02.html


The combination of avoiding U.S. corporate taxes and having Chinese taxes rebated (forgiven) will help DaimlerChrysler to sell new cars in the United States much cheaper than any it can manufacture in Detroit.


http://www.sodahead.com/question/174689/are-you-concerned-about-america-companies-moving-jobs-overseas/


Why are we losing jobs? Because the costs of operating a corporation in the United State is so high that the company cannot continue to make a profit. Several factors are cited, but one of the biggest is the high cost of U.S. corporate taxes rates.


If the corporate taxes are not the issue why are U.S. corporations shoving an estimated 13 trillion dollars (according to Miller-McCune.com) in overseas tax havens?


In fact the places jobs are moving to have higher corporate taxes.


Really?


http://www.reason.com/news/show/134478.html


The U.S. corporate tax rate is simply too high. When you add state corporate taxes to the 35 percent federal rate, you arrive at a whopping 40 percent average corporate tax burden, the second highest among the 30 countries in the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD).


From a sister site to Real Clear Politics, a site many here often point to as an unbiased source:


http://www.realclearmarkets.com/articles/2009/05/obama_gets_tax_policy_backward.html



Economists are in broad agreement that cutting the corporate rate is a national priority. In a 2002 study, American Enterprise Institute economists Kevin Hassett and Eric Engen argued that the most efficient corporate tax rate is zero. The mobility of capital income means that even a small amount of tax introduces large distortions into an economy as capital flies away to a lower tax environment. More interesting, if counterintuitive, is the fact that because of capital mobility the people who stand to benefit most from a corporate tax cut are workers. In a 2006 study, the economist William C. Randolph of the Congressional Budget Office concluded that “domestic labor bears slightly more than 70 percent of the burden” imposed by corporate taxes.

And so, instead of cutting our corporate tax rate, the second highest among developed countries, to bring it in line with the rest of the world, or treating overseas profits in the same manner as most other developed nations which generally don’t tax overseas earnings, the Obama administration will make our corporate tax code more onerous.




So explain to me how lowering the tax rate will incentivize GE to fire up the factories in America again.


I'm stumped. If all these big time economists are wrong, I guess that circle of true believers are living in a pipe dream. I guess the rest of the world is wrong too. They are all cutting corporate taxes as well.
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 258
Illegal Immigration and The Upcoming Election: What Impact will it have
Posted: 8/20/2009 7:11:03 AM
You've pointed me to (well funded) right wing think tanks and economic institutes that say "cut corporate taxes." That doesn't shock me. We have one here too: the Fraser Institute. If you and I got together tomorrow and decided to set up one of these things we'd find that we had corporate donors knocking on our door and lots of media asking for our opinions.

But you may have noticed that their arguments really don't tell you why GE is going to fire up American factories if corporate taxes are lowered. It's kind of a faith-based thing on their part.
 Ready4SomethingFun
Joined: 3/17/2008
Msg: 259
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Illegal Immigration and The Upcoming Election: What Impact will it have
Posted: 8/20/2009 3:08:40 PM
I really don't know the origin of all the few sites I chose out of about 120,000 that popped when I googled "cut corporate taxes" (or something to that effect) except I do know that "real clear" is a site that the lefties here often site to prove their points. Now that they made a statement that in your eyes is "Clearly right wing" they have suddenly become a (well funded) right wing think tank?

I really didn't see the GE arguement addressed specifically, so I can't comment honestly about them. But in my opinion it is worth a try to do anything to get jobs back in the country. If the government has to suffer a little in the process, tough, they are supposed to do what's best for the majority of the people, not themselves, or only the unfortunate of this country. And the majority in this country is saying jobs are a huge issue, being that 10+ percent are unemployed right now. I would think it would be in our best interest to at least try it.

And since it is the thread theme, I think that shipping illegals back to their countries of origin would be in our best interest too. To many of those unemployed that are going to be without benefits soon, 8.00 an hour is starting to look better than nothing. The store I manage put a part time help wanted sign out recently and we got over 100 applications in 2 days. We had people begging for that 7.25 an hour job, literally. It is really sad to see that when we could very easily open up at least a few million jobs for our own citizens, that they WOULD work and would be better than the "homeless and starving" option that is bearing down on many right now.

In both scenarios maintaining the status quo is not helping one little bit.
 Imported_labor
Joined: 3/7/2008
Msg: 260
Illegal Immigration and The Upcoming Election: What Impact will it have
Posted: 8/21/2009 9:23:09 AM

And since it is the thread theme, I think that shipping illegals back to their countries of origin would be in our best interest too. To many of those unemployed that are going to be without benefits soon, 8.00 an hour is starting to look better than nothing. The store I manage put a part time help wanted sign out recently and we got over 100 applications in 2 days. We had people begging for that 7.25 an hour job, literally. It is really sad to see that when we could very easily open up at least a few million jobs for our own citizens, that they WOULD work and would be better than the "homeless and starving" option that is bearing down on many right now.


Somehow in the back of my mind I have a doubt related to the sincerity of this type of post.

I have a hard time believing that someone who is blaming the "illegals" for all the troubles that the country is now having, would truly have a concern for the best interest of his fellow Americans.

Here are the reasons for my doubt. If your thinking is that all the troubles in the economy will disappear because, if and when all the "illegals" are deported, all the unemployed Americans will have jobs, and then they will not have to avail themselves of the "homeless and starving option," then you need to start thinking long and hard about the effect that the deportation of millions of workers and consumers will have on the economy. It is hard to imagine all the "un-intended" consequences that such policy may have. Some industries may very well collapse, and many businesses may have to further down-size when they lose their customers.

On the other hand, at the present time employers like you, who say that you care for your fellow Americans while bashing on the "illegals," don't seem to have a problem offering jobs at, or below, the poverty line rates. If you are trying to say that you want the "illegals" deported so that unemployed Americans will have a chance to get jobs at a higher pay than the $7.25 that you are now paying, then why don't you start offering higher pay and require proof of citizenship or legal residency. That is not an illegal action on the part of the employer. Heck, you might even advertise it with big letters on the front window of your store: HELP WANTED--- $15.00/hour---CITIZENS OR LEGAL RESIDENTS ONLY---APPLY INSIDE. I bet that you will be in the local news the same day, and in the national news soon after. I am guessing that your store may get a lot traffic for a while, but I can't promise you that you will always be that successful.

That would show to me that you really care for your fellow Americans, and besides the higher pay you could offer them health and dental benefits at rates that they can afford.
 Ready4SomethingFun
Joined: 3/17/2008
Msg: 261
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Illegal Immigration and The Upcoming Election: What Impact will it have
Posted: 8/21/2009 12:40:38 PM

Somehow in the back of my mind I have a doubt related to the sincerity of this type of post.


Somehow in the back of my mind, I thought you might.


I have a hard time believing that someone who is blaming the "illegals" for all the troubles that the country is now having, would truly have a concern for the best interest of his fellow Americans.


Fair enough, and if you read the previous two posts, and several of my earlier ones, you would know I do not lay full blame on illegals. I also lay blame on those who employ illegals (remember you pushed me to state it outright, even though I never denied it?), and I also blame companies moving overseas.


If your thinking is that all the troubles in the economy will disappear because, if and when all the "illegals" are deported, all the unemployed Americans will have jobs, and then they will not have to avail themselves of the "homeless and starving option," then you need to start thinking long and hard about the effect that the deportation of millions of workers and consumers will have on the economy. It is hard to imagine all the "un-intended" consequences that such policy may have. Some industries may very well collapse, and many businesses may have to further down-size when they lose their customers.


Specific examples, or is this all speculation? My take on the above series of statements is first, the effect on illegals is not my main concern, the people of my country are, the illegals should not be here, regardless of what brought them, retained them or otherwise.

It really is hard to imagine any "un-intended" consequences that would be negative. The industries could avoid collapse by immediately hiring Americans to do the jobs the illegals were doing. What you aren't grasping is that now, Americans are willing to work for 8.00 an hour, and they are eager to fill positions almost anywhere at any time.

How would any more customers be lost be deporting illegals and putting Americans to work than are being lost due to Americans not working and having no money to spend? Yeah, items specifically sold to illegals might lose a few customers but since most the money they earn goes back to the motherland, I don't the economy taking a huge hit as the trade off will be more money circulating in our economy.



employers like you, who say that you care for your fellow Americans while bashing on the "illegals," don't seem to have a problem offering jobs at, or below, the poverty line rates. If you are trying to say that you want the "illegals" deported so that unemployed Americans will have a chance to get jobs at a higher pay than the $7.25 that you are now paying, then why don't you start offering higher pay and require proof of citizenship or legal residency.


First off, we do only employ legal American workers and require proof before hire, I wouldn't work here otherwise. The jobs we offer are meant to be for high school/college people and second jobs for those needed a little extra income, they weren't designed for career moves. And by the way we move people up to around 9.00 and hour after we get them trained, but that is neither here nor there in the arguement. Why not request the same thing from Wal Mart and McDonalds, I think they might hire a few more folks than we do anyway, and I'd be behind you 150% in that endeavor. My store is a mom and pop, not a chain, we keep a staff of between 12-15 people and we have to be very competitive to make very little. We pay better than the corporate chain stores in the area. And we do offer health insurance.


That would show to me that you really care for your fellow Americans


No it wouldn't. Because I think the best thing for America is to rid itself of illegal aliens and all the burdens they cause our country. And you think that I am wrong and uncaring for thinking that way.
 angelsands
Joined: 9/17/2005
Msg: 262
Illegal Immigration and The Upcoming Election: What Impact will it have
Posted: 8/29/2009 2:33:40 PM
Thank You Mr cashu... I think is just fair to do what you propose. I work at a company where they are IN NEED of people who are Americans or residents. In the state that I live at, the unemployment rate is high.. and the company that I work for, pays good wages, and noone has to be a rocket scientist to do the work. BUT THE COMPANY (AS WELL AS MANY OTHERS IN THE STATE THAT I LIVE AT) IS HAVING A VERY HARD TIME TO FIND PEOPLE WHO WANT TO WORK.... !!! Because they prefer to have the benefits the goverment is offering... And it makes me wonder WHERE are all those "citizens" Mr. ready claims that are willing to work the kind of work that the "illegals" are doing. And I repeat... These companies PAY VERY WELL... !!!
 Ready4SomethingFun
Joined: 3/17/2008
Msg: 263
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History
Illegal Immigration and The Upcoming Election: What Impact will it have
Posted: 8/30/2009 12:01:02 AM

And it makes me wonder WHERE are all those "citizens" Mr. ready claims that are willing to work the kind of work that the "illegals" are doing. And I repeat... These companies PAY VERY WELL... !!!


Show me where the jobs are, and I'll send the people to fill them. So will Detroit, so will Cincinnati, so will a bunch of small towns in Kentucky & Indiana. But first prove to me the jobs are there, and that these people will make this "boatload" of money, because they will have to relocate and that ain't cheap. But I can guarantee you, if what you say is true, I can find the workers. I have people in my store everyday, my friend in Cincy has people in his store everyday. The town I live in is becoming a ghost town because people are leaving to find work, they'd be happy as hell to come to where ever you are.
 angelsands
Joined: 9/17/2005
Msg: 264
Illegal Immigration and The Upcoming Election: What Impact will it have
Posted: 8/30/2009 2:02:04 AM
First off, Mr ready,, I do not know what You consider a "boatload of money" ... But the thing is.. that they don't even have to relocate.. I don't know ...maybe they will have to.... But I can tell You this. if You Know of any military base close to where You live, You can send "your people" there..... I am sure they can find a job there... NOPE...!! I am not talking about ENLISTING.... Here we are in need of construction workers... And the last report I have shows that most of the goverment enticed jobs ALL AROUND THE COUNTRY are in the same situation... Call fort bragg... fort gordon... camp lejune,,.... the point... well... You get the idea... Uhh.. I hope...!! WE ARE IN NEED OF GOOD WORKERS...!! Send them in...................!!!

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