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 tjrogelio
Joined: 11/8/2005
Msg: 14
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Should we place children First?Page 2 of 3    (1, 2, 3)
Think of how many children you could save if you didn't buy a computer or pay for internet service.
 secret_agent_thing
Joined: 3/20/2008
Msg: 17
Should we place children First?
Posted: 8/6/2008 9:57:48 AM
If a baby dies from dirty water every 15 seconds I think we should try cleaning the water, not trying to solve it by killing off Fluffy.

And I guarantee I've spent less this month on a pet than you have for your internet connection.
 ChocolateNutt
Joined: 6/25/2006
Msg: 19
Should we place children First?
Posted: 8/6/2008 10:43:53 AM
friendlyentity

Pets are not the problem in our society. It is proven fact that animals can vastly improve the lives of humans. That is why pets are now being introduced into seniors housing and special care homes--they improve the mental state and sometimes the medical conditions of the people in those situations merely by being present.

How many times have you heard of people being saved by the actions of animals. Cats, dogs, horses have all been documented to have saved the lives of humans, sometimes at the expense of the animal's own life. If you had banished those pets, their owners would be dead now. Dogs are being used in the police force every day because of their intelligence and bravery--shame on you for not appreciating their assistance and sacrifices.



One baby dies from dirty water every 15 seconds


That baby is dying in a locale that is unaffected by my owning a cat. The problems in those areas are a lot larger than just my actions or yours. They require all our nations to work together to assist them, and in some cases the situations in those countries have been directly caused by the greed of the world's superpowers: the United States, Great Britain has caused suffering in every corner of the world, Spain, France--human beings from every walk of life cannot seem to pass up the opportunity for gain even if that gain is at someone else's expense. It is terrible, but I don't see an end to acquisition any time soon.

If you want to discuss wasteful luxuries, pets are at the bottom of that list. Boats, SUVs, quads, skidoos, sportscars: these are ALL unnecessary toys that we use for pleasure and status. They cost much more to purchase and maintain than a pet and cause actual damage to the environment around us.

My dream is to be able to travel to less fortunate and more troubled nations to help with distribution of food, building of homes and schools, waterways, etc.

Nutt
 ChocolateNutt
Joined: 6/25/2006
Msg: 20
Should we place children First?
Posted: 8/6/2008 11:10:12 AM
That's a terrible attitude paumanok. We are all obligated to take care of the helpless: children, seniors and the disabled--compassion and responsibility is part of what makes us human.

Nutt
 ChocolateNutt
Joined: 6/25/2006
Msg: 29
Should we place children First?
Posted: 8/6/2008 12:26:10 PM
A bequest of that amount for endangered animal species or other animal-protective purposes would be easy to understand as an environmental measure, but not a bequest for dogs or cats.


Why makes an endangered species more worth cash than pets? There are many dogs, cats and other domesticated animals that suffer terror, pain, starvation, etc every day. Every living being deserves respect and compassion, each person chooses how to help the world. Did you ever consider that Leona Helmsly only ever felt comfortable with or received unconditional love from her pets? I would guess that would make them deserving of her money and protection in her mind, and that's all that matters.

As for your post Paumanok, if you'd put the comments from your second post in your first, you would have received no criticism for me. You didn't. Your first comment was that there is no moral obligation to care for children--expressed as your personal opinion not as how you see society's views to be.

Yes our society is concerned with the welfare of others on a sliding scale. But that doesn't mean you have to choose not to care.

Nutt
 secret_agent_thing
Joined: 3/20/2008
Msg: 37
Should we place children First?
Posted: 8/6/2008 2:46:28 PM

T'hose unwanted animal pets can be quite humanely collected, and as with farm animals converted into a wholesome and nutricious mix - all ready for exportation.


So to solve the problem of not having enough money to give to third world countries you're proposing we spend even more money to kill off all the pets and build processing plants to make them into food? Kinda defeats the purpose doesn't it? Not to mention it's pretty disgusting.
 RSwindol
Joined: 8/25/2005
Msg: 43
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Should we place children First?
Posted: 8/7/2008 4:15:39 AM
One baby dies from dirty water every 15 seconds

On one hand, I feel sorry for those babies. But on the other hand, do you know how over populated this world would be if we prevented each of those deaths?
Fact: Death is a part of life. The sooner we learn this, the better off we will be as a population.


Actually OP having read your profile, for someone who thinks it's so essential to be honest, how come you have so many 'prefer not to say's' on your profile?

Someone needs to learn the difference between being honest and being open. They are not synonymous. Could it be that he "honestly" prefers not to say? Because he doesn't want to share every aspect of his life with strangers doesn't make him dishonest. It just makes him private. Get a clue.


you are just another over opinionated and dis-likable person.

After reading several of this posters posts, I would say this was a very ironic statement.
 yna6
Joined: 1/21/2007
Msg: 44
Should we place children First?
Posted: 8/7/2008 7:31:48 AM
Sure...everyone could cut their lifestyles down and all that money sent to save other human lives. Or...people in those other countries could be taught population control, farming, water conservation, etc.
Besides...with global warming going on, the ice caps are melting, which means lots of clean drinking water for all...just getting it there is the next step!
 Rythmn
Joined: 1/21/2006
Msg: 45
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Should we place children First?
Posted: 4/3/2010 3:37:31 PM
sounds like you are having a bit of a translation problem, OP. so, i will surmise.

if you are concerned about economic and humane priorities, what you are not considering is:
1) i hate to say it, but the pet industry provides many jobs for people: vets, techs, pet supply manufacturer's and distributors, et al. which in turn puts food on the table for those who work within this sector.
2) pets provide a source of companionship for children, the lonely and the elderly. they certainly were a deciding factor, when i fost/adopted my three teens. remember, ours is not an extended family/communal society--both have their pluses and minuses.
3) many people who have and are not operating out of hunger or desperation, have a generalized kindness. they have pets AND they give to a lot of charities. when you are a constant giver, with not a whole lot in return, often it is the pets who replenish your emotional bank account.
4) people who abuse pets, will also abuse people--as per the literature on sociopathy. yet, there is no similar publicly accessible info on the suffering within the food industry. most people cannot bear to watch these films and prefer to live in denial. this is part of human nature, which is also applicable when dealing with devastating world issues, where a person feels powerless.
5) i suggest you look at the analogy of the airplane going down. the mother must take the oxygen first to remain alive to give the baby oxygen. also, world hunger would be solved if there was more plant protein made available to shorten the food production cycle AND if the poltical/economic tariffs on home production in 3rd world countries were not played with by international industrialists.

capeesh?

note: last nite i watched a devastating movie on hunger in afghanistan and people sobbing/screaming they wished they were dead. it was not a pretty picture. what do i do about it? find the guy's book again as i forget the name, i was so enraptured/overwrought by the documentary. then i take political action and i find some way to donate. if each person just donated a teensy bit, it would make a difference. as they say, everyone must pass it on. the results are algorithmic. but, human nature will always create more spoils.
 karma1160
Joined: 6/10/2008
Msg: 46
Should we place children First?
Posted: 4/3/2010 6:15:51 PM
Animals have a place in making life better for many. What other entity loves someone unconditionally, wags their tail just cause you walked in the door, and will lick away your tears when you cry?
 southernlass
Joined: 5/2/2006
Msg: 47
Should we place children First?
Posted: 4/3/2010 9:53:55 PM
Personally, I feel as if we have contributed as a nation to the plight of these children the OP mentions. Let's look at the recent report on the Haitians and the millions that America alone has contributed to the catastrophe that occurred there. Americans are very generous, probably the most generous in the world, in fact.

We have children and adults starving to death in this country, who are homeless and sleeping out of doors in tents, if they're lucky.

President Obama is making sure that our tax dollars go to the poor all over this world, so you need have no fear. President Obama has spent more of our tax dollars on the poor than probably any president I know, most especially in light of the economic times our nation is going through. I think we've definitely put more than our fair share into the collection plate, this time around.
 valenciacityx
Joined: 3/10/2009
Msg: 49
Should we place children First?
Posted: 4/6/2010 1:18:13 AM
Dont have children.
Look you just saved 2.3 souls or so.
 NowSucksLess
Joined: 2/4/2010
Msg: 50
Should we place children First?
Posted: 4/6/2010 8:46:22 AM
Did you know that for just $6,000.00 a month, you could feed a middle-aged guy for a month at H(.)(.)ters? Please give. Think of the (18 year old) kids!
 late™
Joined: 2/1/2010
Msg: 53
Should we place children First?
Posted: 4/7/2010 11:01:42 PM
One fifth of the worlds wealth is in the control of 800 people.

People demonize the threat of a "redistribution of wealth" as if it's a fanged snarling "socialist" (run away!!!!) monster under the bed, ...there's a reason for this. They're trying to take everybody's mind of the fanged snarling monster who redistributes most of the wealth to an ever shrinking minority already.

.00000007% have 25%

Follow the money, and be damned aware of how much of it's passes through your hands .

it's never really yours you're just one of the many
...feeding the machine.
How do YOU define, "obscene"?
 late™
Joined: 2/1/2010
Msg: 54
Should we place children First?
Posted: 4/8/2010 12:02:33 AM

.00000007% have 25%

20% ........not 25%, ...we'll have to wait another 5 years for it to get to 25% -> my bad.
 want to travel
Joined: 7/29/2006
Msg: 55
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Should we place children First?
Posted: 4/8/2010 1:53:10 PM
the sad truth is, most of the kids you are talking about are from the 3rd world,the answer is really not that complicated, they should use birth control, and have abortions
adults should not have children that they cant afford, it really is that simple
i will give you an example, europe was left in ruins, some cities where destroyed, 80 % of the buildings where ruined such as berlin, budapest, stalingrad, and many many more,water, electricity, all utilities gone, people rebuilt, with no help at all, in the case of germany, they even had to pay war reparations, because they where not given any aid at all, and where put on 800 calorie a day, what did they do, the rebuilt, on the other side, italy, and england where totally broke, they had to live on rations for years, what did they do with there ruined economies and buildings, they rebuilt
haiti has an earth quake , what are they doing, complaining that they are not getting enough help, they expect the world to feed them, rebuild for them,and give them money, because they have so many children.
 ChocolateNutt
Joined: 6/25/2006
Msg: 56
Should we place children First?
Posted: 4/9/2010 4:09:34 PM

adults should not have children that they cant afford, it really is that simple


Actually it is NOT that simple. Those nations are suffering because they can't afford the birth control or abortions. Oftentimes, pregnancies aren't even under the control of the women who pregnant. Many of those places are low in women's rights and high in something called rape. They don't expect people to give them money or help them, they are simply dying!

Also, the countries that you are speaking of rebuilt. Haiti was a 3rd world country below the poverty line of the world before their disaster. England, Italy, Germany all had previous resources to draw upon, and it is not at all true that they received no aide (except for Germany) from the North American nations. And by the way, the reason that most European superpowers became superpowers was because of their rape of the rest of the world, dear. Ever heard of conquistadors? lol I don't consider that type of behaviour something to fawn over or encourage in other nations. In fact, many of the worlds 3rd world nations are suffering poverty in direct relation to their experiences with nations such as England, Italy, Spain.

Nutt
 want to travel
Joined: 7/29/2006
Msg: 57
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Should we place children First?
Posted: 4/11/2010 11:39:14 AM
i do agree with the posting above,it just goes to make my stand stronger, we should NOT give a dime to culture that, torture, rape, and abuse the females in there countries
what would happen to men in our society if we treated women in such a way, they would be considered criminals,therefore if we support these cultures, we become part of the problem, and that is criminal
one very recent bit of news comes to mind, the little 12 year old girl that was married off to an old man, died from internal bleeding as a result of the 'husband trying to impregnate her(rape), yemen has no legal age of majority for girls, many are married off at even younger ages. only to be raped by there husband s,over and over, is it moral to have friendly relations with a country that has a culture and a society that permits these crimes and abuse against children, and women, i think it is our crime to do so
haiti, has a history of systematic abuse of there women, and children of both sexes
i know, i was there, as for europeans in haiti, they had a revolution two hundred years ago, they are one of the first republics in the world, there revolution was total, the slaves did commit genocide against there french owners
 ChocolateNutt
Joined: 6/25/2006
Msg: 58
Should we place children First?
Posted: 4/11/2010 12:18:55 PM

is it moral to have friendly relations with a country that has a culture and a society that permits these crimes and abuse against children, and women, i think it is our crime to do so


That's one way of looking at it. I read an article in the Reader's Digest written by a woman who volunteers in Afghani aide centres that treat women. She describes women trying to burn themselves to death to escape from their husbands or just an intolerable life. Do you think that closing down the hospitals that are treating those women and children in Afghanistan will help the women and children? Personally, I think they'll just be left to die in the streets or ditches in agony and fear with no attempt to alleviate their suffering.

Rather than cutting off the aid to those who are suffering, a better option would be to impose other types of sanctions on the country itself.

Nutt
 want to travel
Joined: 7/29/2006
Msg: 59
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Should we place children First?
Posted: 4/11/2010 12:39:18 PM
we have invaded that country, and have opened up schools, and made sure women have the right to vote, as for closing hospitals, aghganistan, really did not have any, they really had no infrastructure, no roads, schools, hydro,or roads
now things are really better for the women in that country, but it took, a war, occupation to do it
i still think sanctions would at least help in a minimal way, we can not invade every country, at least with sanctions, we are not aiding and supporting the abuse, rape, and general nasty way of treating half the human beings in these cultures
as for aid, i know of not one example of the aid actually helping women, other than the ones that where liberated by force, try, going to yemen, or arabia, to set up aid for women and girls, they will decapitate you,in public.... fact
 ChocolateNutt
Joined: 6/25/2006
Msg: 60
Should we place children First?
Posted: 4/11/2010 8:02:28 PM

as for aid, i know of not one example of the aid actually helping women


I beg your pardon? You can't see how caring for the woman's burns helps her? I can't quite fathom that attitude. This was a situation of a woman traveling from north america to Afghanistan. I don't think she was lying.

Nutt
 want to travel
Joined: 7/29/2006
Msg: 61
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Should we place children First?
Posted: 4/12/2010 7:39:10 AM
since the occupation and overthrow of the taliban, many, many, women,( girls) where helped by the international community
women and girls can now have a life, they can go to school, some even choose to marry , who they choose to marry
an example of what i am saying, is the year before the war,the taliban, was using a soccer stadium, (that was built from international aid) for the public executions of mostly women and young girls, who in one way or another , talked back to there husbands, or secretly learned how to read
when the international aid agencies, and governments, complained, they where told by the taliban that these countries should build another stadium, for soccer, as the one they where using was only used for public executions
 ChocolateNutt
Joined: 6/25/2006
Msg: 62
Should we place children First?
Posted: 4/12/2010 6:24:36 PM
travel: your last post is in direct contrast to the rest of your posts. You might want to make up your mind what side of the fence you want to be on.

Anyway, my apologies everyone, for not sticking directly to the subject.

Nutt
 want to travel
Joined: 7/29/2006
Msg: 63
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Should we place children First?
Posted: 4/13/2010 8:43:58 AM
that is not true at all,there is no contrast at all, i worked for a human rights, and was sent to hungary, in 1990, i did visit, the housing for the orphan s and unwanted children, it was way worst than my african trip, part of my job was to direct funds to these places, a couple of year later i went back and there was little or no improvement , once romania wanted to join the european union, they cleaned up there act, it was not that romanians are bad people, they just accepted that that was the way things are, once europe told them to clean up there act, or they would not get into the EU, they did, not only did they clean up there act, they have some of the best run facilities in europe
i am sorry i did not stick to the subject too
my only point is for most of the 3rd world, and some developing countries should only get aid if they have conditions, by the way, i worked for the human right organization, with no pay, i have given 5 years of my life to work for charity.... catholic school will do that to you
 want to travel
Joined: 7/29/2006
Msg: 65
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Should we place children First?
Posted: 4/13/2010 10:19:56 AM
really if you think about it, most of the people, in england lived in dire poverty, during there empire days
the child labor, the misery of the industrial revolution, a great many came to north america, as indentured slaves
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