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 zangie
Joined: 5/30/2007
Msg: 48
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Guys who want to hang out spur of the moment at the start of a relationship...Page 2 of 11    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11)

So after 2 dates, as one poster said, If I liked you and was not having a great week, why not hang out, order some chinese and watch a movie? This would probably be a last minute thought, not an after thought though.


Bob: I think you missed the point...the OP was speaking of someone she just met, who she doesn't know at all..suggesting going to his house or hers..totally different than someone you have already been out with...

I do find it interesting that you accuse some women of "man bashing", then write a whole post which basically bashes women? Pot meet kettle.



It's sad, but true, if all the guys you date are only trying for sex what is the common denominator, YOU! 10 guys have been on here saying they don't do it, but you blow by them or poo poo what they say due to your experience. A few women have said otherwise, but you ignore them to and cheer each other on for citing your negative experiences.


Can't speak for anyone else...but, I personally never said ALL men do anything..I said it happens a lot more than it doesn't..and some men don't seem to want to accept that. I never poo pooed any guys who said they weren't like that either...I have met and dated some who weren't...some men are so busy being defensive and claiming they aren't like that to get the point...I'm not saying all men do this...I'm saying enough do, that it makes you more cautious than usual...and that you can't determine a man's character or motives immediately at all. Men keep claiming we can...well, I'd like them to try being female for a day on here and see how it isn't that easy at all. The fact that I am discussing a problem that occurs in no way implies I think all men are this way, or trying to pick on men as a group. It is merely a discussion of some of the difficulties I have faced.



Average joe has to write 50 women to get one date. He maybe a great guy, who would treat you with respect but will not write you, due to the fact the wall starts out to high to climb.


I have no "requirements", none are listed on my profile and I don't insist on any. My only rule of thumb is that I don't have sex on a first date. I don't think respect is an unreasonable request, which, whether talking about that, or any other thing, is all I require. The sad fact is that women have to be more cautious than men, I don't particularly like that aspect of online dating, but, it is a reality.



It's sad, but true, if all the guys you date are only trying for sex what is the common denominator, YOU! 10 guys have been on here saying they don't do it, but you blow by them or poo poo what they say due to your experience.


This is the most offensive thing you said , in my opinion. Their is nothing about me that causes men to inappropriately talk about or insist on sex, other than that I am female. It happens to all women on here as far as I can tell. It certainly does to any I talk to off the forums. It is naive of you if you don't think there are many men out there who are looking just for sex..thank goodness for the honest ones. They try it with anyone they can (that they find attractive, most of the time)..has nothing to do with what the woman herself is like. If I had a "looking for NSA sex" vibe..this wouldn't be a problem now, would it? They wouldn't need to be dishonest, or sly.

I wish some guys would get something...it is not a reflection on you personally for anyone to talk about some bad experiences they have had. I do not punish the "good" guys in any way for what the "bad" have done, other than I am reasonably sure he is a good guy before I put myself in a vulnerable position. And if they really are "good" guys, concern for my comfort zone is a given.


I can't say how to change it for you, since you are OK missing great guys, why discuss it? You will continue to make the same mistakes you have already due to the fact you won't look at your own selection process if it keeps happening to you.


I'm not missing any great guys..I have met in person, and online,quite a few. In my case, it is the selection process itself that weeds out (most of the time), the more unsuited for me ones. I think you may , again, miss the point. I have never dated a player in my life. I have, however, on a first date, before I could possibly know too much about a man, been unpleasantly surprised by inappropriate behavior.

You can not assume what a person is like till you meet them in person. Many people online pretend to be something they are not..and it isn't so easy to tell online. No body language, no eye contact, not mannerisms. So, until I meet someone and get a sense of him...I am not going to put myself in a dangerous or uncomfortable position.And the really "good" guys understand this perfectly, and have no problem with it.

EDIT: Sorry for the length..didn't realize I wrote so much...
 verygreeneyez
Joined: 3/15/2006
Msg: 49
Guys who want to hang out spur of the moment at the start of a relationship...
Posted: 8/18/2008 6:16:49 PM

You can not assume what a person is like till you meet them in person. Many people online pretend to be something they are not..and it isn't so easy to tell online. No body language, no eye contact, not mannerisms. So, until I meet someone and get a sense of him...I am not going to put myself in a dangerous or uncomfortable position.And the really "good" guys understand this perfectly, and have no problem with it.

So very true.
 Miss Angele
Joined: 5/6/2007
Msg: 50
Guys who want to hang out spur of the moment at the start of a relationship...
Posted: 8/18/2008 6:25:34 PM
Prettite
Thank you for putting that into words so eloquently, there is nothing I can add except my nod of agreement.
 zangie
Joined: 5/30/2007
Msg: 52
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Guys who want to hang out spur of the moment at the start of a relationship...
Posted: 8/18/2008 6:41:03 PM

If anyone can please direct me on how to do this properly that would great!


Pettite: When you do your quote and then answer...don't hit post...use your back arrow, go to the next post you want to quote..copy..the use the forward arrow..you will go back to your first post..put in you brackets and quotes..say what you want to say..then repeat the process till you have quoted and posted all your comments..if you want to go back after you have hit post...use the edit feature under your pic..you have 15 minutes...hope this was clear...
 zangie
Joined: 5/30/2007
Msg: 53
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Guys who want to hang out spur of the moment at the start of a relationship...
Posted: 8/18/2008 6:57:25 PM

Read some of the posts of, I think it was desert wildflower and her profile in the early part of the thread. If you read those and tell me you don't understand what I mean, then there is no point talking and I will not concede the point, but refrain from this thread as it has no balance.


Bob: This may be one of those mars/venus things...lol...

When I read posts like that, as a woman, I feel empathy for her pain. I know she isn't saying that all men are bad, really, she is speaking from a hurt place. I originally posted on here, because I could identify with what she was saying, and felt I could support her a bit.

You should realize that rarely are those kinds of posts directed at men who aren't that way. She is speaking of those that are. ( Sorry, desert, if I am misunderstanding).

Many women, more so than most men..post as a way of expressing their feelings. What someone's feelings are can't be argued with. They are what they are. Many men just don't see beyond the words, and are taking it personally. Maybe it is the left brain thinking, I don't know.

Besides all that...the balance is the people who disagree...no one is stopping them from posting their opinions, and they have...but, you are never going to get any thread to be composed of entirely all one opinion. Nor be able to balance it evenly with opposing opinions. In my view, this is the beauty of forum posting. I have learned a lot.

I understand the taking it personal thing...I used to do it all the time on here...and I was taken to task for it..but, I have learned ...(most of the time...lol), to have thicker skin and stay true to what I believe, and to not assume that every post that says something derogatory about women, is about me? I can only post my views, and know who I am..an either people like me, or agree with me, or they do not. The coolest thing has been the respect I have for quite a few posters, whose opinions are different than mine.

There is nothing wrong with anyone, male or female, talking about their experiences. No one has to agree with their interpretations, and are free to post otherwise. But, you can't deny this is their experience, and they are allowed it.

In a ideal world...no one on here would ever say anything that hurt my feelings, or, that bashed women either ( and trust me, there are those too). However, ideal would be boring, and I wouldn't learn sometimes to see it from the other side.
 verygreeneyez
Joined: 3/15/2006
Msg: 59
Guys who want to hang out spur of the moment at the start of a relationship...
Posted: 8/18/2008 7:49:46 PM
Prettite: What I do is leave notepad, Word or WordPerfect open when in forums. Then you can copy, paste multiple posts/posters without having to use the "reply to post" function until the very last post of the thread. I even add the [quote ] and [/quote ] and my replies when in the other program. Then you just copy/paste the entire thing, already coded, here in the reply box. It just keeps things organized and you don't run the risk of being blocked with the 2 in 10 rule (Moderator block, I think) which allows you only 2 posts in 10.



My experience has been that the way we allow the relationship to start out, is generally the way it will continue.

What you accept in the beginning, you can expect in the end. (I completely agree.)

~OT~ I like the spur of the moment stuff sometimes. I'm fairly routine driven and even a little reclusive, so it's nice once in a while to break out of my self-imposed sanctions. I used to do TONS of spur of the moment things ~ I actually sort of miss those times.

Edit: I don't do the night-time spur of the moment stuff, however. Day or early evening, great....night/late night? After the bars close? Not in this lifetime.
 dave1234
Joined: 11/7/2004
Msg: 60
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Guys who want to hang out spur of the moment at the start of a relationship...
Posted: 8/18/2008 7:52:23 PM

(Msg 112)
(Dave)There are many misconceptions regarding booty calls and one is that sleeping with a guy right away results in one. Most guys like sex and when they meet a gal who enjoys sex they are not going to seek it elsewhere. They are going to want to have a relationship with that gal.


For the most part, that has not been my experience and I've been around the block a few times. Oh, and I'm a woman.


Last year there was a thread about one night stands (ONS). I asked how many women have actually experienced a ONS after, say, 40 years of age. I think one person acknowledged it. The rest assumed an encounter would be a ONS so they didn't participate.

My point is I believe many women have experienced guys just wanting a ONS but that was in the past. The vast majority of guys over 40 can not simply walk out of their house and get laid, simply put. (Prostitution being the exception). Should they find an accomodating gal they are not going to enjoy it once and then dump her for no reason. It doesn't make sense. It's not logical.

It seems the problem is the gal not being interested in the guy later on as opposed to the guy not being interested in the gal. Frequently, women here have said they didn't want to be sexually involved with a guy until they knew him because they may discover the guy is not the type they want to have a relationship with. While that's certainly a valid point it is not the same as guys wanting a ONS.

Marc writes way back in msg 85,
Personally, I find that me "just hanging out" with someone is the best indicator for whether or not we would be compatible. After all, "just me, hanging out" is often how I am in day to day life.


While Marc is more than a quarter century younger than I am I can relate completely. Unless one is just interested in casual dating most relationships are about "hanging out". It's hanging out on a Monday night and a Tuesday night and a Wednesday night and a Saturday or Sunday. What is living together if not "hanging out"?


(Msg 91) Leave that to the guys with a low enough self-respect to want to jump through your hoops and conform....... The ones you will end up with are the wimps and the desperadoes who will be more likely to validate your fears.


I think that's one of the things some ladies do not comprehend. Also, the "player" will jump through hoops because that's part of the game. The goal is to get you in bed. Picture a chess match. A large part is about guessing your opponent's next move.

Whenever a lady describes being used by a guy, really used as in the guy being married or trying some financial scam, the scenarios are so similar. "The guy was a real "gentleman". He was never "pushy". He was so considerate of my feelings."

Sure he was. He played the game.


(Msg 135) You prove to her that you are worthy of those privileges by showing her through your behavior that you're a good guy, and the type of man she seeks.


Be wary of the game payer. They just love to meet ladies with that attitude.
 zangie
Joined: 5/30/2007
Msg: 63
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Guys who want to hang out spur of the moment at the start of a relationship...
Posted: 8/18/2008 8:40:24 PM

Whenever a lady describes being used by a guy, really used as in the guy being married or trying some financial scam, the scenarios are so similar. "The guy was a real "gentleman". He was never "pushy". He was so considerate of my feelings."

Sure he was. He played the game.


I'm sorry Dave, this is silly. There are perfectly "good" guys who also treat you well. Your implication is that any man who is nice to us is playing us? WTF? So, the really good guys have no consideration for your feelings? They force you into things you don't want to do? They are never gentleman? What a crock...

It isn't what a man says or does...it's how sincere he is. Sincerity is the difference between a player and a "good" guy...and this sometimes take a bit to discern...but, so far, I haven't been wrong...I have never had a guy date me for a while, have sex, and then leave.

All men don't change their behavior with age..and I have met enough men who were up front with just wanting sex, to know that there are those who aren't honest about it. I have male friends who do it all the time...Since I am one who just can't have a laissez fair attitude about having sex and then being dumped..not worth the risk..and I still maintain, because it has been my experience, that any guy who truly likes me...is respectful of my comfort zone...and it has worked just fine...I haven't met a guy yet, who expected sex on a first date, and when it didn't happen, he disappeared...
 zangie
Joined: 5/30/2007
Msg: 64
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Guys who want to hang out spur of the moment at the start of a relationship...
Posted: 8/18/2008 9:28:28 PM

The original "think of something better. I dare you." challenge was a challenge to come up with a more positive win/win outlook which is pretty much the whole point of my msg 25.


I don't know Mr Snap...I think the problem may be a difference in what men think is a win and what women think is a win?

Personally, I am not afraid... just mindful of doing stupid things that only hurt me...and not repeating past errors...

Edit: as to post 51..I don't see where she says anything that is different than what I was saying, just said differently...and actually, I don't even go that far...
 SweetnSassyNatureLover
Joined: 4/11/2008
Msg: 66
Guys who want to hang out spur of the moment at the start of a relationship...
Posted: 8/18/2008 9:42:04 PM
I'll teach you.
Do you know how to highlight text?
1. Highlight the phrase you want to quote.
2. Click "copy", either with the right button on your mouse or from the Edit button at the top of your screen.
3. Click your cursor in the message box, and "paste" using either method in #2.
4. You should now have the phrase you want to quote. To force it into a "quote box"
use the square brackets and put
[ quote ] atthe front of the phrase and [ /quote ] at the end of the phrase. Do not leave spaces between the bracket and quote as I have done.



Just tryin g this out guys - keep posting.

EDIT - doesn't look like I did it right!!????

NEW EDIT - Yayy thanks for the lesson!!!! Now what was the topic??? Oh yeah, guys wanting to hang out from the start. Is this kinda saying "I am being put in the friend zone"? by a girl??
 zangie
Joined: 5/30/2007
Msg: 69
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Guys who want to hang out spur of the moment at the start of a relationship...
Posted: 8/18/2008 10:33:00 PM

Since I doubt you would contact a man first...


I contact men first all the time...and I am far from the league that gets tons of emails...


You of course, don't see that, if a man respects you, sees a future with you, he will wait.


Bob, I don't know how you could misunderstand this..this is exactly what we are saying? That is why we are cautious, and don't want to be anywhere that makes it easier for a man to suggest it, or pressure.

This is directed at the men who do...not the men who don't..those are the ones we are looking for...why on earth do you think it means you?
 LadyEdenMO
Joined: 7/3/2008
Msg: 71
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Guys who want to hang out spur of the moment at the start of a relationship...
Posted: 8/18/2008 11:41:03 PM
Ok, have read the ENTIRE thread.

First, I’m a person that likes to hang out with someone I’m just getting to know.
I also prefer doing activity “dates” even for a first meet, over a dinner or lunch first meet anytime. In either case, I want to be out among others, not alone behind closed doors with someone I don’t know very well. I’m not expecting freaks wanting to eat my liver with Chianti and favar beans or rapists around every corner – but it does only take one. I also don’t care to get pawed and in a wrestling match because THEY don’t know ME well enough to know that’s not my thing and will push that envelope.

Truth be told, I hope a person I want to get to know is a gentleman, does have respect and consideration for me – and yes, finds me appealing enough that carnal thoughts are not repugnant. I loved that clip in the movie “Hitch” where the client was advised to take that first kiss only 90% of the way and to allow her to pony up the last 10%. I don’t want to be forced. I don’t want to be grabbed, groped or fondled. I don’t want to be “seduced”, talked or teased into intimacy that I’m not ready for, am not comfortable that I want. I’m a big girl. If a fellow lets me know he’s interested, if and when I’m prepared to, I’ll meet him the rest of the way. – you betcha! If it’s just not there, isn’t going to be there, I’ll say so too.

Yes, most often the fella makes the first moves, is expected to be the aggressor. Some guys are trying to read green lights, while others just assume. Some pay no attention, solely focused on their agenda with little or no regard for the individual in their sights.
By being careful not to put ourselves in situations where we invite misinterpretation or risk of assault with someone we don’t know very well, by exercising caution, – we’re playing games, not being “sports”, giving nice guys a hard time? Sorry, if the danger and need for caution was not real there would be no need for parking lot escorts, pepper spray and self defense courses. In the real world it’s not being paranoid – it’s not being stupid and volunteering to be a victim.

Calling someone in the evening, especially late in the evening, by someone that you haven’t spent considerable time with, wanting to come by their place IS an attempted booty call. What? We’re supposed to believe he’s been searching desperately for her number for days and when he found it, in his excitement, pure joy and desire to bask in the presence of this lovely he didn’t know what time it was? Puhhhhlease! It’s definitely an “I’m horny”, who can I call move.

As for the OP, women have always “tested” men for suitability, each to her own criteria. A man chooses to pursue a female based on his own criteria. If either doesn’t suit the other – NEXT! OP, if your “rules” are working for you, it’s working for you – nuff said.
 midancer2
Joined: 5/30/2007
Msg: 72
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Guys who want to hang out spur of the moment at the start of a relationship...
Posted: 8/18/2008 11:44:40 PM
Aside from all the other good reasons, it's just not safe to be alone with a man you don't know.
 YingKissesYang
Joined: 5/12/2005
Msg: 73
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Guys who want to hang out spur of the moment at the start of a relationship...
Posted: 8/19/2008 12:31:28 AM
"""Just tryin g this out guys - keep posting.
EDIT - doesn't look like I did it right!!????"""

Here's the fast way us washingtonian guys quote a gal....first, I click and paste with her, then I like to go like this""""""........"""""". Life is too short to type a box and the word quote and backslashes all around, I want to put her thoughts in italics in a memorium.

....now about those guys who think average women are bitter, frigid, uptite, knotted,

Such men have spent a lifetime self centered and unable to connect with a woman, """"this is directed at the men who do...not the men who don't..those are the ones we are looking for...why on earth do you think it means you?""

like here is a typical quote. Do you think this person needs therapy? He doesn't sound happy at all, he might pretend to be,

""" it would mean dating bitter women who can only believe the worst in a man"""

Yah dude, the women are bitter and see the worst in the opposite sex, you keep right on thinking that..If you own a mirror, write those words backwards in lipstick and see what they say....

PS: for all the nice guys who can't keep a woman, I know why ....our houses are too messy and we are on the internet too much, otherwise, they'd keep us for sure. You don't need to own a Harley or even shave your balls. Just be yourself and clean house. I'd like to try out my grandma role play game I bought.

edit: last poster pretty much summed it up READ THIS GUYS: """calling someone in the evening, especially late in the evening, by someone that you haven’t spent considerable time with, wanting to come by their place IS an attempted booty call. What? We’re supposed to believe he’s been searching desperately for her number for days and when he found it, in his excitement, pure joy and desire to bask in the presence of this lovely he didn’t know what time it was?"""

But, alas, I am sure 4 or 5 more guys will chime in how bitter and mis informed she is, and its no wonder she can't get a date. Cause you guys you angry bitter guys who think hanging out is a good harmless cheap way to meet someone are ruining it for us perves who do know she knows women know what we are doing......LOL
 SweetnSassyNatureLover
Joined: 4/11/2008
Msg: 74
Guys who want to hang out spur of the moment at the start of a relationship...
Posted: 8/19/2008 12:38:44 AM
"""Just tryin g this out guys - keep posting.
EDIT - doesn't look like I did it right!!????"""

Here's the fast way us washingtonian guys quote a gal....first, I click and paste with her, then I like to go like this""""""........"""""". Life is too short to type a box and the word quote and backslashes all around

....now about those guys who think average women are bitter, frigid, uptite, knotted,


Hey mudpacker .... I did it!! And what about those guys who think women are bitter, frigid, uptite, knotted..... ??????

Is this a gender bashing thread?? I think message #161 had a good point, we all have "rules" or standards - stick with your own beliefs and if the guy/girl can't respect that then move on.

 YingKissesYang
Joined: 5/12/2005
Msg: 75
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Guys who want to hang out spur of the moment at the start of a relationship...
Posted: 8/19/2008 12:49:30 AM
'''''Hey mudpacker .... I did it!! And what about''''

Yeah, we should get married this weekend. You got any money? I need a place to stay. But it seems so many woman are jaded and bitter and won't get married or have sex on a first date. Though it has been explained to women that a few forums, a couple emails, a phone call and an IM is all it should take to know if you want to get married, or have chemistry, or have sex, or our criminal background and level of sincerity.

Which one do you want to do, get married or have sex? You will understand I am doing you a favor by skipping the emails, instant message and phone calls. The best way to get a man is to know him by just a spontaneous spurt of the moment, ie, "HANGOUT" late after you've had a few drinks, I see you online. That way, you can relax so he can be himself. Me? I'm trustworthy cause I don't drink, but I love that slutty bar breath fragrance. Golly Wally, I wish I was one of these rare guys who isn't just thinking about sex anymore, or how angry and bitter most women in this (and every) thread are....Are they one and the same?

Hey Wally, do you think if I had a good attitude and some dating skills, I could meet a woman with a good attitude and good dating skills? Do likes attract? Does the Pope wear waterproof fur? Do Zen masturbators clap their hands?

Hey now before you make a logical or emotion based decision, like some women do....lets hang out and talk about our sexual styles before we waste time becoming friends. I have lots of friends, but hardly any, well none, sex partners. I should have lots, seeins how there are so many lonely women here begging for a date. But most of them can't handle my superior male sexual fantasies and some ability to maintain a hardon. Thats why I jibber gabber a lot in bed and specialize in funny stuff. Has any guy ever made your belly button hard? or given you multiple BB orgasms? That's my specialty, Ladies, call me "the buttoneer".
 SweetnSassyNatureLover
Joined: 4/11/2008
Msg: 76
Guys who want to hang out spur of the moment at the start of a relationship...
Posted: 8/19/2008 1:02:21 AM
'''''Hey mudpacker .... I did it!! And what about''''

Ok, we should get married this weekend. You got any money? I need a place to stay. But it seems so many woman are jaded and bitter and won't get married or have sex on a first date. Though its been explained to women that a few forums, a couple emails, a phone call and an IM is all it should take to know if you want to get married or have sex.

Which one do you want to do, get married or have sex?


Well I certainly am not going to marry someone on the firstdate!! Wait, can I wear a bright orange and green polka dotted dress with big huge fluffy sleeves and a purple and yellow striped veil?? Please can I, can I?? Where do you want to meet?? Hey my friends uncle just got out of prison and he could do the ceremony for only $5 and gas!!! Hehehee just teasin ya!!

So obviously I am now really unsure of what the issue is here on this thread.

Oh yeah - so is that my only choices?? To either get married or to have sex?? Is this a new rule?? Sorry, I get lost sometimes in what the issue is with all the turns and twists the threads often take.

OK, I will add that I can see both sides. I do relate to women who want to wait. The references I have heard men say like "I need to test drive before I buy the car" comes up, and that mentality is pathetic. I am not a car, and most used cars that get test driven alot are never bought. I too want to a man that will commit to being with just me. Does that mean immediate marriage - heck NO. Does it mean sleep with him on first date - NO, not that it hasn't happened but you learn from your mistakes. My experience has taught me (I am sure many women can relate) that usually this situation never ends in a relationship, and as someone said, for women to be intimate our hearts are in it, our emotions and it is not just physical for us. I don't want to be a "hit it and forget it" girl to ANYONE.

NOT ALL woman are angry and bitter. I sure am not. I am not about carrying a load of hate for anyone, it only weighs me down and keeps me from enjoying life. Besides, men are awesome!!! Just like not ALL men are angry and bitter!!! Unfortunately there are some, but that's their issue.
 YingKissesYang
Joined: 5/12/2005
Msg: 77
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Guys who want to hang out spur of the moment at the start of a relationship...
Posted: 8/19/2008 1:27:09 AM
Mr snap happy, I think you are stretching this out a bit..as are some other folks:

""""I guess the take home message is conduct yourself in a way which leaves out the "can't get me, I'm way too smart for you - look at all my rules" attitude which is a red rag to a bull player. I suspect most women who communicate this challenge to players are unaware that they are doing so. They end up with more player types hitting on them, and it validates their fears, """ and guys pass you up.....

What's all that about? Most gals here have it figured out simply: "IF A STRANGE GUY CALLS TO HANGOUT, SAY "NO THANKS".

I'm one of the number one top gold players here, and I don't do that. I just play.

It's a good idea to go back to OP's original question. How ever it is true many men from the internet (like me) will ask to come over at the weirdest times...Is it just as true that men women meet at social functions call at odd hours for random spur of the moment unplanned "hangouts".

And FYI, it did sound like Dave1234 was saying that the nicer a guy acts, the more he is probably a player. Maybe Zangie shouldn't have even replied to that. What do you think?
 windloverr
Joined: 2/29/2008
Msg: 78
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Guys who want to hang out spur of the moment at the start of a relationship...
Posted: 8/19/2008 3:17:24 AM
You started out this thread asking for advice or opinions; NOW you appear to be the one doing the teaching. Are you asking for advice; or confused that people disagree with you?

What a lot of people have been trying to point out to you is that your "rules" DO NOT weed out "players." They may weed out some, but they also weed out people who like being spontaneous. Following rules DOES NOT, in any way, indicate respect; it indicates an ability to follow rules. Period.

You have obviously felt used, and been deeply hurt, on more than one occasion; and are apparently trying to set up some type of defensive shield to protect yourself in the future. You have also apparently run into problems with your “policies.” The magic trick is that there is no magic trick. The only way to weed out a player, is to get to know them. The best way, is to get to know their history. The problem with “policies” is that they also weed out people who don’t deal well with inflexibility; whether they are a player, or not. Personally, I’m one of those. Absolutely nothing personal on you; it’s just who I am.


Players by definition do not respect women, and the "policy" that I posted requires a man to do just that.
NO! All your “policy” does is require someone to follow rules. Personally, I absolutely adore, and respect, women; I HATE “policies.”


Thus it becomes evident - very early on usually, who the Players are. They do not appreciate being required to treat a woman like she is anything but a piece of meat, and any woman wh o asks for more then that is deemed "too demanding", or requiring of the man to "jump through hoops", or she will be of accused of "having too many restrictions". Furthermore, men who treat women with respect are seen as "desperados" and "wimps".
If it were only the “players” you were weeding out; you would be able to write that paragraph with happiness and joy; because you would have successfully weeded them out. However, judging from the judgmental defensive posture you’ve taken; my guess is that you aren’t entirely happy with your results. As far as name calling goes, you’re right; anybody who refers to anybody as a “desperado”, or “wimp” is someone you should rejoice at no longer associating with.


Women are played because they are naieve and/or push-overs. When we sleep with a man too soon, we fall under something of a spell, and the man can do no wrong. We are blind to the warning signs, and we relax our boundaries.
This part is obviously biographical; and explains why you are doing what you are doing. I understand, and respect, your motives; however, you also need to realize that a lot of women CAN be spontaneous, and go over to guys houses, WITHOUT an issue. Although, that's also EXACTLY what a player would tell you in order to "lure" you to his house. It goes both ways.


If women had policies in place that are aimed at weeding out Players, they would save themselves a lot of grief.
Pity it isn’t that simple.

Respectable men would honor those policies, because they are not burdensome.
To a point. Obviously, they are burdensome; or you would never have felt the need to post this thread. There is a HUGE difference between “preferences” and “personal requirements.” Nobody would argue with a preference; whereas very few would accept personal requirements. If an event, or your lifestyle, dictates scheduling; no problem, I’ll schedule months out. If, however, you demand scheduling; that’s making him subservient; and it won’t be happening.


I mean, is it too much to ask to give a girl 24 hours notice for a date...at least in the beginning?
Absolutely not; certainly not for the first date or two. However, if “something comes up” are you flexible to change? i.e. “Hey, I just got concert tickets for tonight! Would you like to go?” If your ONLY excuse is “Sorry, no 24hr notice”; that's just a rule for the sake of having a rule.
Is it too much to ask to keep that date?
Absolutely not. Any broken date needs to have a really good excuse. I honestly can’t recall the last time I broke a date.


What about about honoring her wishes to refrain from spending time alone at one's home until she feels comfortable with it? Is she worth that much? Honestly, if a guy thinks that is too much to ask...WHO NEEDS HIM?
I completely agree with you here. In my previous post I was pointing out that you CAN hang out at someone’s home; while making it explicitly clear that sex isn’t happening. However, if your reasoning is that “you don’t trust yourself”; I totally understand, and respect, that; and anybody who pushes the issue is exactly someone you don’t want to hang with anyway.

TO WEED OUT PLAYERS: You have to get to know them. There isn’t a short cut.

Take home message: The single greatest predictor of future behavior, is past behavior. Talk to them about previous relationships; ask their opinions; see what the have actually done; and how they have actually handled things. See how they think. Anyone can lie; listen to their “off the cuff” remarks; and their spontaneous opinions. Then you’ll know if you’ve got a player or not.

Also, to clarify, when I was talking about “hanging out” at someone’s home, I was NOT[i/] talking about a FIRST date! I STRONGLY advise everyone to NEVER go to someone’s home, or invite them to yours on a first date. I’ve had a few women offer to allow me to pick them up at their home for our first date. While I KNOW they are “safe” with me, LOL; and while I’m all about being the gentleman, and picking them up, etc; I wouldn’t do it. This is a dating site; and these are strangers; LADIES, you MUST think safety first. (No, for the two goobs out there, I was NOT worried about them hurting me, LOL.) Although, there is a story on here about some girls ex coming by, and caving in the rear window of a guy’s vehicle, while he was inside the house on a first date.

Good luck.
 dave1234
Joined: 11/7/2004
Msg: 81
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Guys who want to hang out spur of the moment at the start of a relationship...
Posted: 8/19/2008 6:47:20 AM

(Msg 144) A man should be trying to impress a woman he finds a connection with." That shows wisdom and maturity.

Followed by,
So a woman who expects to be treated with common respect is asking too much of poor "average Joe". Your average Joe sounds like a Player!


Common respect or trying to impress? They are not the same thing. The average person will respect another but they will not try to impress unless they have ulterior motives.

Most guys are aware that if they have to impress (chase, woo, jump through hoops) they will have to do that when in a relationship. A person who demands being impressed (chased, wooed, etc) is not going to change once in the relationship. If they think they’re so important now they will think the same way once in a relationship.

So, what type of guy is going to stick around; a serious guy who knows that should a relationship result he will spend the rest of his life trying to gain favour with the woman or a player who knows he’s just there to score and then the game is over?


Any guy who has healthy testosterone levels and finds me attractive will likely want to get romantic with me if we were alone together in the privacy of our home. As a woman, I have to decide whether I am ready for that kind of activity with you.


A simple solution is to tell the guy nothing sexual is going to happen until you both are tested for STDs. There’s nothing to debate. You both make an appointment and get tested together. It’s highly doubtful a player is going to get tested every time he tries to score.

The tests are inexpensive and the results available within days. It shows both people are serious about each other. Problem solved.


(Msg 146) There are perfectly "good" guys who also treat you well. Your implication is that any man who is nice to us is playing us?


No, not every man. Not even most but you can be sure the guy who isn’t “perfect” or isn’t willing to “jump through the hoops” isn’t likely to be a player because he’d just as soon leave and say to hell with it.

The serious guy isn’t going to play the game. The game player will play right along. That’s the game! That’s the whole idea. Trick you. Deceive you. The serious guy is up front. If the woman is not interested he leaves. By not playing the game he shows he’s not a game player. It’s rather straight forward I would think.


(Msg 153) Players by definition do not respect women, and the "policy" that I posted requires a man to do just that. Thus it becomes evident - very early on usually, who the Players are. They do not appreciate being required to treat a woman like she is anything but a piece of meat, and any woman who asks for more then that is deemed "too demanding", or requiring of the man to "jump through hoops", or she will be of accused of "having too many restrictions".


Not according to what I’ve read on here and private emails with a couple of posters. The player did come across as respecting the woman.

"Of course a woman has to be careful. Of course guys are all after sex.”

The player knows what the woman wants to hear. That’s the game! The player comes across as a guy who understands woman’s concerns. He puts the woman at ease by agreeing with her. He wins her confidence. He doesn’t care if he has to “crawl” because it’s about winning the game. He has no intention of staying with her after he gets what he wants. He doesn’t care about being manipulated and being subservient to the woman because the reality is he is the one doing the manipulation.

Ask yourself, “Why is the guy putting up with my crap?” Why? There has to be a reason. Unless he can’t possibly get another gal then I suppose he’ll put up with whatever is necessary but thinking about the average guy why would he tolerate that?

As I mentioned before women who have been seriously used were used by guys who went along with all the nonsense. Guys whom women thought were “perfect”. Guys whom women were sure they passed all the tests.


What about honoring her wishes to refrain from spending time alone at one's home until she feels comfortable with it?


Is it too much to ask the woman to come over in the afternoon? Is it too much to ask her to sit in the back yard so she and the guy won’t be alone in the house at the same time? What is wrong with the direct approach such as, “I don’t feel comfortable coming over at night because I’m not ready for anything romantic. Can I visit this Saturday afternoon?”

Straight. To the point. I can’t see a decent guy refusing unless he has something scheduled for Saturday.


(Msg 158) I have. To my face. After we had sex, he told me I was a slut for giving in so easily. That was in my twenties. The memory is vaguely parked in my lower brain.


Exactly! When you were in your 20s. That’s why I wrote in msg 142,
I asked how many women have actually experienced a ONS after, say, 40 years of age. I think one person acknowledged it. The rest assumed an encounter would be a ONS so they didn't participate.

My point is I believe many women have experienced guys just wanting a ONS but that was in the past. The vast majority of guys over 40 can not simply walk out of their house and get laid, simply put.


One can not compare the intentions of a 25 year old to a 45 year old but that seems to be what happens. Whether it’s to do with a guy’s intentions or women expecting dating to be the same as it was when they were in their 20s things are not the same.

There were plenty of places where people in their 20s hung out and 20’s guys had more energy and time to go out. The 40s guy is not in the bars and clubs every night and there aren’t that many 40s gals there anyway. The situations can not be compared meaning the intentions of guys can be compared to 25 years ago.


(Msg 162)………since when is having boundaries disrespectful to a man (refering to your statement that most self-respecting guys will pass me over if I possess this *attitude*)???


It’s not the boundaries that are disrespectful. Disrespect has nothing to do with it, in any case. The problems arise when one sets conditions that are illogical. For example, when one states they do not know a person well enough to have sex and then follow it up with wanting to go slow getting to know the person. If knowing the person is preventing one from having sex then logic dictates getting to know the person as soon as possible IF they are interested.

Human nature being what it is there comes a point where if someone is deliberately making things difficult the other person "switches gears" and it becomes a contest. At 40+ years of age surely one can state directly their preferences and be done with it.
 YingKissesYang
Joined: 5/12/2005
Msg: 82
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Guys who want to hang out spur of the moment at the start of a relationship...
Posted: 8/19/2008 11:05:45 AM
""The problems arise when one sets conditions that are illogical.""

That is why the logical thing to do is meet at a neutral place for the first couple of dates (especially for online dating, but OP was talking about people she had met through friends, etc. It is still LOGICAL practice not to meet strangers at one's home). You had a good idea Dave, meet in the afternoon, IF BOTH PEOPLE WANT TO. That's the logical way to start a relationship, is to agree on things.

But lets say a nice lady says, "Oh Dave, you flatter me, you really are a sexy devil. I'm kinda busy right now, but would love to go out with you Friday nite, on a date. How's about we meet at TJ Shenanigans for the twilite dinner special, and that will give us all nite to chit chat".

I like dates, I like social events, I like museums and bike rides. Meeting a possible lover is a great excuse to do those things with her. But, If I'm horney, I'll start sending messages late at nite offering my "hangout services". I really can't believe an intelligent mature romantic fellow thinks any woman in her right mind wants to "meet and hangout" with a stranger she only met once.
 dave1234
Joined: 11/7/2004
Msg: 88
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Guys who want to hang out spur of the moment at the start of a relationship...
Posted: 8/20/2008 7:29:17 PM

(Msg 184)
(Dave)Ask yourself, “Why is the guy putting up with my crap?” Why? There has to be a reason. Unless he can’t possibly get another gal then I suppose he’ll put up with whatever is necessary but thinking about the average guy why would he tolerate that?

This statement is a perfect example of why and how my policy weeds out the undesireables. Any "average Joe" that would deem what is important to me, for my safety and comfort level, to be nothing but "crap" or "nonsense" (as you wrote right after this sentence), clearly does not respect women. I wouldn't want to be with a guy like that, and if that's what this so-called "average Joe" thinks, then it's obvious why he can't get a date.


My statement was immediately followed by, "As I mentioned before women who have been seriously used were used by guys who went along with all the nonsense. Guys whom women thought were “perfect”. Guys whom women were sure they passed all the tests." (Msg 178)

The point is a person can have all the boundaries and submit all the tests they want. If they are "generally" unreasonable, "generally" being defined as what the "average" person would do, then the guy who accepts that is just as likely to be a player as opposed to one who respects women. The reason being a guy will respect himself and if he's acquiescing to demands the average person would find inappropriate one has to ask, "Why?"

From the different threads I've read and the occasional email exchange it wasn't the "naive" gal who got used and that's what "annoyed" the authors of the posts. They were intelligent, educated ladies who put guys through the tests. Of course, the guys were players.

As I asked before why would a decent, honest guy go to unusual lengths to accomodate a lady he barely knows? It's possible he's just a really nice guy but it's more likely he's a player.

I've always been straight forward with women and seldom had a problem finding one and it quickly weeded out the career daters.
 YingKissesYang
Joined: 5/12/2005
Msg: 91
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Guys who want to hang out spur of the moment at the start of a relationship...
Posted: 8/22/2008 12:49:22 AM
""" I shouldn't have said anything .... It's frustrating when you feel as though people twist your words..... Please accept my apology. I know you have posed some questions to me .....I hope you don't mind if I pass on that.

Just this afternoon I found this interesting talk which might explain where I am coming from. http://loporto.com/garret/2008/08/15/your-true-will/
(about 4 minutes into the talk) ......
..... the only way to improve the scene/community as a collective is to not let traumatic experiences victimise us over and over. Most of us have experienced trauma ....the good news is that there are choices in the way we respond to it."""

Mr Snap Happy, I deleted a few words, but in no way have I twisted your words. you do understand the difference right (sorry if I am "intellectualizing). Dare I ask, WHAT DOES TRAUMA have to do with good manners, planning a date, and not wanting a booty call? Even if 1/3 women have been seriously traumatized (raped or beaten) by a male , and 2/3 or more have frequent cum ons, that's a separate issue. The point of this thread has almost no reference to "trauma", what the concern is WHAT KIND OF ASHHOLE asks a strange woman to come over? Hopefully, when his "suggestion" is rightly rejected by all but the most desperate women (or men) he says a polite "thank you", like I do.

No need for truama therapy to answer this question, but maybe a few guys who answered need it.
 YingKissesYang
Joined: 5/12/2005
Msg: 99
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Guys who want to hang out spur of the moment at the start of a relationship...
Posted: 8/22/2008 11:41:27 PM
""""I will say it again.... IF the tables were turned and it was the women that were expected to pay each and every time they go out on a date, maybe then they would see how one sided that is.
A man can be a total gentleman and still not pay for your meal... and the women that scream, "CHEAP"... what do YOU give in return for said man paying your way?""

That is a whole different thread Dr.Phil. You don't need to say it again. You shouldnt have said it in the first place. I guess, on the brite side, I must seem like a genius compared to some guys. You rock dude! Keep on keepin on.

I don't think anywoman on here mentioned wanting to hang out with immature twits.

""" Guys at any age range can get with just about any hot or not so hot girl they want with various degrees of effort of course. You can't return to your 20s, so if you want to hang out with dudes, you need to change your expectations or fall back from the game""""
 sydneyleigh
Joined: 3/21/2008
Msg: 103
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Guys who want to hang out spur of the moment at the start of a relationship...
Posted: 8/23/2008 6:59:42 AM

If you demand that a man spend money on you, cause I ASS U ME that you WORK, right, then why can they not demand to have sex with you... isn't that being a prostitute?




if a man demands sex, he is a sexual predator.
is that how you want to be viewed?

if a woman demands that a man spend money on her before sex...
then she's a prostitute.
i KNOW that's not how I want to be viewed.

I prefer to spend time with someone, getting to know them. He picks up the check if he asked me out, I pick up the check if I asked him out... I think I should have been demanding more sex according to your theory, cause we know all of those guys tried to get down my pants, right?

~eyeroll~

I'm all for safety, but can we start from a position of mutual respect? otherwise, why BOTHER with the date?

And if i'm hanging out, its with my buddies, "hanging out" immediately puts a guy in the friend zone, where he will languish, watching me date.

sydneyleigh
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