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 mungojoe
Joined: 11/15/2006
Msg: 86
Concealed Carry Laws in Cities / Suburbs = Terrible Idea Page 3 of 13    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13)

The liberal gun grabbing media simply refuses to report the good side of the gun issue


if guns are outlawed...only outlaws will have guns !!!!


The person could have just as easily and probably would have slammed his car into the hummer if he did not have to gun.

This is exactly the kind of mindless sloganeering that makes anti-gun control types seem like unthinking, irrational nutbars that need to be restricted to nothing more dangerous than plastic forks and spoons.

Plus a lot of that same old illogic and false arguments about gun control being gun banning. No one has said a word about banning guns yet some just can't seem to make that logical connection. Instead the words are drowned out by those little voices in their heads that say exactly the opposite of what was heard.

Why would we want to trust anyone who is incapable of tasks as simple as listening to what is said or actually understanding what is said to have their hands on something as potentially dangerous as a gun? Such an obvious lack of critical thinking is exactly what makes them incompetent to safely own a gun.
 printer2
Joined: 6/19/2007
Msg: 89
Concealed Carry Laws in Cities / Suburbs = Terrible Idea
Posted: 8/18/2008 4:28:18 PM
I do not have an aversion to guns having shot many thousands of rounds through a barrel. I am luck to live in a country where there is no need to carry a firearm, not that it is allowed here. I am sure there are places in the US that I would not feel safe to walk the streets, actually just crossing the border I do not feel the sense of security that I do anywhere I do in my country. I can understand the feelings of the posters that are for civilians to walk around armed.

The question as I see it is in the long run would the US be safer if people were allowed to carry or not. By allowing people to carry firearms the implication is that it is ok to shoot another human being. Just for now let us put aside weather or not it is justified or not.

So now you have a society that allows a person to take another's life. And according to your constitution every citizen has that right. (Actually that was not the intention when the constitution was written up, the right to bear arms was enshrined so the population had a way to combat Brittan if it ever decided to come knocking again.)

So you have a society that allows killing but the only check that you have is the moral fiber of the person with the gun to keep his or her finger off the trigger. At one time the general population had more moral fiber but today it seem to be lacking (Too much refined food I think).

So I think the two sides of the argument is do you take a stand and say it is not acceptable to kill others and try to back society away from thinking it is ok to do such a thing? Or do you arm a large portion of society and just trust in the luck of the draw to deter the dim witted members of society that they should not commit crime.

Tough choice. Glad I live in Canada.
 AceOfSpace
Joined: 5/28/2007
Msg: 90
Concealed Carry Laws in Cities / Suburbs = Terrible Idea
Posted: 8/18/2008 6:29:49 PM

I'm a firearm carrier in favor of stricter laws. I don't believe any yahoo should be able to own a gun. I would like some form of restriction and filtering process before you can buy one. Of course, this wouldn't cut down on all firearm related accidents or assaults, but it probably would cut down on them. If you are ever commited into a psychiatric instintution, you should have to be cleared by a medical board before you should ever be allowed to own a gun. I realize this is somewhat coming into play now after the Virginia Tech shooting, but this should have been implemented on day one. A lot of people are saying they need to restrict and test and ban firearms, but honestly if they figured out the very simple basics of this problem, it would be a better deterent then stricter gun laws.


Thank, Sidd, for speaking up and making sense. Now, if you can just talk some sense into those yahoos who keep spouting "guns don't kill, people do. Dah yup!," that would be great!


The only place outside a military base that operates in a similar fashion is a prison. So keep that in mind.


In prisons, guns are strictly segregated from the inmate population. Guards who interact directly with prisoners NEVER carry guns. Access to guns in both settings is strictly controlled, and no soldier will ever get access to a gun unless there's an order to issue him one. And that's not just a matter of inventory control, it's a matter of military discipline. Drunken soldiers with access to guns would be a very bad idea on any base, even the ones in the middle of Missouri.

But you and I are essentially in agreement about the principle. Let's either do the right thing by training everyone in school, or let's do the other right thing of restricting access only to those who have been successfully trained.

And, if you're one of those idiots who is about to scream that I'm trying to take your guns away, think again, idiot! I'm urging you to stop blowing smoke out your ass and go get the training you need to KEEP YOUR GUNS SAFELY.

If you don't want to exercise your right responsibly, you are setting yourself up to lose it. And if you do eventually lose it because you refuse to think it through, go look in the mirror, pal. I'm trying to help you out. The rights of every innocent bystander in your vicinity are balanced against your right to bear. If you can't bear your weapons in such a way as to respect their rights, you forfeight yours. AND YOU KNOW IT.

So do us all a favor. Shut the f up and go get trained. If you've been trained, excellent! Thank you! I don't want to know anything more than that. You can have all the guns that you've been trained to use and store safely as far as I'm concerned.
 AceOfSpace
Joined: 5/28/2007
Msg: 91
Concealed Carry Laws in Cities / Suburbs = Terrible Idea
Posted: 8/18/2008 8:23:43 PM
You will never know how you will react to killing someone until you do. You may save someone's life, but at the risk of ruining your own. You may lose your family, your job, your mental health, and more. You need to think about this every time you decided to take a gun with you."

I think everyone needs to think of this before taking a firearm anywhere.


Wiser words were never spoken. Thank you.
 AceOfSpace
Joined: 5/28/2007
Msg: 93
Concealed Carry Laws in Cities / Suburbs = Terrible Idea
Posted: 8/19/2008 5:10:50 PM
it is NEVER acceptable to kill anyone who is not trying to harm you in some way. obviously, if an individual chooses to announce to the world that he is not worthy of being deemed a human being, and tries to break into your house, it is ALWAYS acceptable to exterminate it. there is a huge difference.


It's the "in some way" loophole that bothers me. It's also your willingness to presume that the alleged rapist doesn't have a mother whose expectation of due process for her child is something you can violate with impunity. You have no right to do that, gun or no gun.

When you are elected Sheriff, then you can do that duty. Meanwhile, as a citizen, you can make a citizen's arrest and use reasonable force to hold a suspect in place until the authorities arrive. If a suspect attempts to use force to escape, you can do what you have to do. But you do not, and never will, have a license to kill. Sorry dude.

You come across as someone who itches for an excuse to kill, and your attempt to rationalize the act beforehand lead me to think that you are not someone with the sobriety or maturity to handle the responsibility of a gun.

I don't expect you to understand that or why I would say it. But perhaps if you think about it with something other than your adrenal glands you will get a clue.

Arguments like yours convince responsible people, both gun owners and nonowners alike, that not everyone is capable of managing the responsibility of gun ownership. So you might want to stop puffing your chest and realize that the more you talk that way the more ammunition you give to people who want to take guns out of the hands of people like you. Personally, I'll feel much safer when you, in particular, are disarmed.

Before you go off, why don't you stop and think about why I might say that to you, when I have told other people in this thread that I support them in keeping theirs.

And if you do decide to go off on me because you prefer that to thinking, you lend even more credence to my claim that you, in particular, are unfit to own a gun. In other words, let me put it this way:

Grow the F up.
 printer2
Joined: 6/19/2007
Msg: 94
Concealed Carry Laws in Cities / Suburbs = Terrible Idea
Posted: 8/19/2008 5:21:47 PM


it is NEVER acceptable to kill anyone who is not trying to harm you in some way. obviously, if an individual chooses to announce to the world that he is not worthy of being deemed a human being, and tries to break into your house, it is ALWAYS acceptable to exterminate it. there is a huge difference.

I have noticed in your posts that you do not specify the level of violence that would be needed to justify shooting a person. Wait let me rephrase that. It is acceptable to shoot (exterminate) a person if he tries to beak into your house even if no violence towards you is committed. I think you just proved the point for people who think yahoos should not be armed.
 Montreal_Guy
Joined: 3/8/2004
Msg: 95
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History
Concealed Carry Laws in Cities / Suburbs = Terrible Idea
Posted: 8/19/2008 5:39:51 PM
Trained and experienced peace officers can't even do that, so why should any civilian with a gun be able to ?
 eclecticangel
Joined: 11/4/2006
Msg: 97
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History
Concealed Carry Laws in Cities / Suburbs = Terrible Idea
Posted: 8/19/2008 6:05:22 PM
I am a small single woman who likes to fish and hike and have very little upper body strength. Although I am a bit of a tree hugger I need to be able to protect myself, my children and my home. I have taken safety classes and been a member of the N.R.A. for about twenty years. I am amazed a the fact that people who oppose legal owners of guns don't realize that all that happens when gun become illegal to own is that the only people who have them are criminals.............................Da!
"The Right To Bare Arms" is a fundamental right to all Americans who register. (helping keep track of those who choose to own guns). One must have a clean record to obtain a gun . If there are a few loons who slip through the cracks so that hundreds, maybe even thousands of responsible law abiding citizens may feel and be safer blame it on the system and those who administer the concealed weapon permit(s)



P.S. Besides people who drive those bigger Hummers and SUV often need a reality check about the fact that there are other people on the road that they are expected to share the road with....Just Kidding - But I do really hate those things!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 mungojoe
Joined: 11/15/2006
Msg: 98
Concealed Carry Laws in Cities / Suburbs = Terrible Idea
Posted: 8/19/2008 6:51:40 PM

It's the "in some way" loophole that bothers me. It's also your willingness to presume that the alleged rapist doesn't have a mother whose expectation of due process for her child is something you can violate with impunity. You have no right to do that, gun or no gun.

There does seem to be a tendency among a set of the anti-control side to come across as excessively aggressive and angry.

I am reminded of Al Pacino in "Taxi" where he is standing in front of the mirror repeating "You talkin' to me?". They often seem to "glaze over and drool" about using their guns like Homer over a doughnut and take a glee in the prospect that exceeds all but the most psychotic of criminals.

This is the group that drives the pro-crowd to work even harder. If the anti crowd really want to shut down gun control they need to figure out a way to disarm this crowd.
 mungojoe
Joined: 11/15/2006
Msg: 100
Concealed Carry Laws in Cities / Suburbs = Terrible Idea
Posted: 8/19/2008 7:17:32 PM

when was Al Pacino in " TAXI" ????????

Sorry... de Niro.

I always confuse their roles for some reason.
 mikecraig
Joined: 5/11/2007
Msg: 101
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Concealed Carry Laws in Cities / Suburbs = Terrible Idea
Posted: 8/19/2008 7:46:44 PM
I only have knowledge of the incident in Indiana. I live in the area and drive that same stretch of interstate every day. You did not get (or care to repeat) the whole story. Don't misunderstand, I don't condone what he did, but she was very much the aggressor in this instance. She didn't just try to courteously merge because her lane was ending. That is a very heavily travelled area, especially at rush hour, stop and go sometimes. People force their way to the left lane (the one that ends) even though it is clearly marked, and 99% of people know it ends because they drive it every day. They try to pass as many people as they can before the lane ends, then try to force their way back over at the end of the lane. She tried to intimidate him with her big Hummer, and tried to force her way over 4 times, threatening to hit his car. Once again, I do not condone his actions, but for most acts of road rage, there is an aggressive driver whose actions caused it, but they always seem to come out as the innocent victim.
Guns are a tool, the same as a car, a knife and fork, etc. Any tool can be used offensively or defensively, including a gun. A gun laying on a table never has or never will kill or maim someone. A person has to pick it up and use that tool to hurt someone, same as a person decides to get in their car and use that tool to run someone off the road. As a law abiding citizen, the constitution says that my right to bear arms shall not be infringed, so that I have a chance to defend myself against someone trying to do me or my family harm. Yes, I live in a very safe area and I probably will never need to use a gun in self defense, but, just in case, I have one. I live in the middle of town and I have seen a police car drive past my house only twice in 8 years, so no, the police aren't always there to protect you and I.
 bikerguy45
Joined: 3/15/2007
Msg: 102
Concealed Carry Laws in Cities / Suburbs = Terrible Idea
Posted: 8/19/2008 7:59:29 PM
i don't claim to be an expert on this topic..however, our constitution is clear about the right to keep & bear !!!!.. research shows that this right doesn't apply just to LE or military..those who arent citizens can comment on this uniquely American constitutional right if they choose ..regardless of ones personal beliefs our founding fathers have spoken & courts have avoided the temptation to legislate from the bench !!!!!!! hooray for the interpretation of the constitution as a non living document subject to revisionism !! bikerguy
 mungojoe
Joined: 11/15/2006
Msg: 104
Concealed Carry Laws in Cities / Suburbs = Terrible Idea
Posted: 8/19/2008 9:13:24 PM

You're thinking of "Taxi Driver"

"Taxi" was a tv show with Judd Hirsch, Danny Devito, Marilu Henner, Christopher Llyod, Tony Danze, and Andy Kaufman as the wonderful "Latka"

Gotcha.

In that "Taxi" over "Taxi Driver" vein, I would also trust Lloyd's character with a gun before DeVito's.
 AceOfSpace
Joined: 5/28/2007
Msg: 105
Concealed Carry Laws in Cities / Suburbs = Terrible Idea
Posted: 8/19/2008 9:48:50 PM
Mike,

No stick of dynamite laying on a shelf has ever hurt or maimed anyone. That being said, there is obviously no need to lock the storage sheds where high explosives are kept or require that anyone be trained or licensed to use them.

Give me a ****ing break.

There is one salient difference between a stick of dynamite and a gun. The dyanite wasn't designed specifically to kill people.

You KNOW that argument is a bunch of feel-good nonsense and yet you persist in repeating it. WHY?

Do not EVER talk to me about fuzzy-thinking liberals when you spout bullshit like that.
 AceOfSpace
Joined: 5/28/2007
Msg: 107
Concealed Carry Laws in Cities / Suburbs = Terrible Idea
Posted: 8/20/2008 5:10:11 PM
Nice comeback, strat!

Got me!

(The argument that guns don't kill is still bullshit though.)
 mikecraig
Joined: 5/11/2007
Msg: 108
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History
Concealed Carry Laws in Cities / Suburbs = Terrible Idea
Posted: 8/21/2008 3:32:09 PM
Royal majesty...feel free to visit Washington DC. They can't carry or even have guns in their homes... they also have one of, if not the highest murder rate in the nation. You would feel safe there?
 mikecraig
Joined: 5/11/2007
Msg: 109
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History
Concealed Carry Laws in Cities / Suburbs = Terrible Idea
Posted: 8/21/2008 3:41:38 PM
printer 2... Your from Canada, and you know our constitution's second amendment was written to fend off a future invasion from England? We just freed ouselves from government oppression and wanted to make sure the people always had the means to do it again, even if it was our own government. The second ammendment doesn't give us the right to bear arms, read it, it guarantees that the right we already have, shall not be infringed.
 mikecraig
Joined: 5/11/2007
Msg: 110
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Concealed Carry Laws in Cities / Suburbs = Terrible Idea
Posted: 8/21/2008 3:52:28 PM
Ace
I reread my previous post and I can't find where I said anything about training or licensing, not sure why you went off on me about that. I was merely making the point that a gun is a tool, like dynamite. And you're right, dynamite wasn't designed to specifically kill people...it was designed to destroy everything, and everyone, in close proximity.
 AceOfSpace
Joined: 5/28/2007
Msg: 111
Concealed Carry Laws in Cities / Suburbs = Terrible Idea
Posted: 8/21/2008 5:47:16 PM
Mike,

When you say that "guns don't kill, people do," you imply that they are inherently safe. You imply that you see no need for proper training or safe storage that is secured against untrained or unstable hands.

Are you really that stupid that you cannot see the implications of such a foolish slogan?

(Understand, I'm not just going off on you about this, I'm going after all of the adrenalized idiots who spout that nonsense as if it was the gospel. But when you spout it too, you put yourself in the company of such idiots, and how am I supposed to know the difference?)
 mikecraig
Joined: 5/11/2007
Msg: 113
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Concealed Carry Laws in Cities / Suburbs = Terrible Idea
Posted: 8/21/2008 7:30:56 PM
Now why would you call me stupid? I'm beginning to think you are one of those hotheaded adrenalized idiots you speak of. Do you know anything about guns? Have you ever handled one? Shot one? I haven't implied anything about training, storage, etc. You are reading what you want to into what I'm saying. All I'm saying is that, yes, guns are inherently safe. They do not "go off" by themselves, it is all in the person handling them. They have safeties built in to prevent them discharging when dropped. If there isn't a manual safety, there is a hard and heavy trigger pull, some have a grip safety, some have a magazine safety, shooting one is a deliberate act. No, I don't leave a gun laying on a table for anyone to pick up. I never said that, not sure how you read that into what I said. I simply said a gun laying on a table never killed anyone. Someone had to pick it up and decide to do that.
Back to the title of the thread.... why do you suppose the nut jobs bent on killing and maiming go to a school campus? Do you suppose it has anything to do with the gun ban that campuses have? Think they realize most students and staff are law abiding citizens that won't risk expulsion or termination to carry a firearm, and therefore there is little risk of someone stopping them before they do what they want? Check the statistics that the Brady group won't tell you. Whenever a state was considering a right to carry law, anti-gunners predicted a gunfight at the OK corral every night. The opposite is true. Violent crime goes down... the bad guys can no longer count on an easy target... that little old lady might be packing. Ask the people of Australia...their guns where taken away, crime went up.
And all this talk about killing... I think some have watched too many movies and tv shows. Just because someone gets shot doesn't mean automatic death. If someone was attacking my family I would use enough force to stop the attack, just as police are taught. If that is simply producing a firearm, fine. If it means using it, well, he did break into my house. Unfortunately, I can't read minds, so I don't know what someone is planning. I just want to have the tools to defend myself and my family and luckily the constitution says I have that right.
 mungojoe
Joined: 11/15/2006
Msg: 115
Concealed Carry Laws in Cities / Suburbs = Terrible Idea
Posted: 8/21/2008 7:40:02 PM

Do you suppose it has anything to do with the gun ban that campuses have?

No, not in the least.

They go to schools because that is where the people they want to get even with usually are.

And how, exactly is it that all these KIDS have all these guns to take there in the first place? Are their parents not supervising what they do with them, not keeping them secured so the kid has to ask permission to take it?

Seems to me the "hole" isn't with the gun ban at schools but the ease with which these kids acquire the gun in the first place (like a b'day present from Daddy, with unsupervised access or Daddy's guns not locked up).
 AceOfSpace
Joined: 5/28/2007
Msg: 116
Concealed Carry Laws in Cities / Suburbs = Terrible Idea
Posted: 8/21/2008 8:08:06 PM

Now why would you call me stupid?


Because you quoted a stupid slogan. If the shoe doesn't fit, don't put it on again.


I'm beginning to think you are one of those hotheaded adrenalized idiots you speak of.


Nah. Just lost my patience. You probably didn't deserve that, but there are plenty who might have.


Do you know anything about guns? Have you ever handled one? Shot one?


Yes, I have handled and shot rifles and pistols. Very fun toys when shot at the range.


If someone was attacking my family I would use enough force to stop the attack, just as police are taught. If that is simply producing a firearm, fine. If it means using it, well, he did break into my house. Unfortunately, I can't read minds, so I don't know what someone is planning. I just want to have the tools to defend myself and my family and luckily the constitution says I have that right.


Good. I support you in exercising the right in the responsible way you just outlined. Please pardon my earlier outburst at you. And if you would do me a favor and knock some sense into those adrenalized idiots who also quote that saying that I hope you'll be wise enough to lose, I'd be grateful.
 mungojoe
Joined: 11/15/2006
Msg: 117
Concealed Carry Laws in Cities / Suburbs = Terrible Idea
Posted: 8/21/2008 8:12:44 PM

kids and teenagers are cunning. and if they know anybody connected with black market type stuff it becomes really easy.

As true as that is, it is largely irrelevant to the question.

In the vast majority of these cases the weapons used were legally acquired and usually by an adult family member.
 tallskier
Joined: 5/20/2005
Msg: 118
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Concealed Carry Laws in Cities / Suburbs = Terrible Idea
Posted: 8/23/2008 11:18:57 AM

These crimes (and again these are only two very recent examples) simply could not have occurred without "concealed carry" permits being available.


This is a completely absurd assertion. It's like claiming we don't have bank robberies since we made it illegal to rob banks.

You can demonize any concept by cherry-picking from anectdotal evidence. Far more people are killed every year in automobile accidents, so why not ban automobiles?

Despite the fact that you can cite some cases where holders of concealed carry permits do evil, the fact is that they are involved in crime at a much lower raqte than the population at large.
 tallskier
Joined: 5/20/2005
Msg: 119
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History
Concealed Carry Laws in Cities / Suburbs = Terrible Idea
Posted: 8/23/2008 11:22:26 AM

There is one salient difference between a stick of dynamite and a gun. The dyanite wasn't designed specifically to kill people.


Nor was the firearm. It is designed to expel a projectile at high velocity - all else is a matter of application. None of my guns has done more than make a hole in a piece of paper or cardboard.
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