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 AVulcanRider
Joined: 7/13/2008
Msg: 3
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Russians Not to Blame for Attacks??Page 2 of 2    (1, 2)
Saying Georgia started it is like the Bully who says , Well he started it . He was beating the hell out of my fists with his face .
Russia has never had a problem with kiling their own people . But when someone in another country does it they're going to stop it ???? Come on , I don't buy that .
HERE'S THE BIG PICTURE : If Russia regain Georgia , the gain controll of all oil to western
Europe . While every other country in the world is trying to get more oil , the U.S. is out to weaken themself . DRILL HERE > DRILL NOW . And screw nancy , and the Sierra club
 Draskinn
Joined: 7/11/2007
Msg: 5
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Russians Not to Blame for Attacks??
Posted: 8/14/2008 11:01:31 PM
So if Georgia didn't start this dont you think its odd that Russia would be thinking of going after their President for war crimes?

http://www.russiatoday.com/news/news/29005



August 14, 2008, 16:14

Saakashvili may be put on trial in Russia, say prosecutors

Russian investigators have launched a criminal case on charges of genocide in connection with the events in South Ossetia. Russia’s Interfax news agency reports that the Russian General Prosecutor's Office has said Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili may also be put on trial.

Igor Komissarov, deputy chairman of the Prosecutor’s Investigation Committee, said it had "initiated a genocide probe based on reports of actions committed by Georgian troops aimed at murdering Russian citizens, ethnic Ossetians, living in South Ossetia."

According to the latest figures, about 1,600 residents and 74 Russian peacekeepers have been killed as a result of Georgia’s attack on South Ossetia.

Speaking at a joint media briefing with French President Nicholas Sarkozy, President Medvedev said double standards are inadmissible when evaluating the actions of politicians who are guilty of mass killings of civilians.

“The situation when one, who committed thousands of crimes, is characterised as a terrorist, and another as a president of a sovereign state, is very strange,” he said.

Meanwhile, Marina Gridneva, a spokesperson for the General Prosecutor's Office, told Interfax that Russian law allows for foreign citizens to be brought to trial if they have committed a crime against Russia’s interests.

She said that evidence of murder, following the attack of Georgian troops in South Ossetia, may be used as a basis for future charges against Saakashvili.

Aleksandr Torshin, Vice Speaker of the Russian Federation Council, said that Saakashvili and his closest allies must answer for their actions in front of an international tribunal.

But he said he is worried by some assumptions in the west that Mikhail Saakashvili is “inadequate and may be mentally ill.”

“In such a case there will be no trial against him. He would get a certificate, a ward, and everything would be explained that he is nutty. I fear such a development of events, and I have an impression that this variant is being considered in the west,” Torshin said.
 JeffC13
Joined: 6/15/2007
Msg: 6
Russians Not to Blame for Attacks??
Posted: 8/15/2008 12:14:58 AM
If you could have SEEN the parade of hawkish pundits speaking from the podium for the American Enterprise Institute on C-Span yesterday. Endless hours of crap, and a willing media in the audience lapping it all up. Fred Kagan, Ralph Peters, etc., all pontificating and blathering that "evil" Russia was the aggressor, and had this all planned long ago, blah blah blah... I could feel the bile building and projectile vomiting that was about to commence, before I managed to overcome and turn the channel.

I find it interesting that C-Span and others from the "liberal media" will carry water for any Reich Wing "think" tank function or press conference for hours on end, whenever they need to "catapult the propaganda," as Boy King once put it. Curious, but when does C-Span give air time to progressive think tanks? Or pluralist speech? Or liberal functions? Peace activists? I've never seen it. But when the Reich wants to beat the war drums? They're like, "where do we plug our mics in?"

15 years ago, we had mother Russia rolling over and showing it's soft underbelly for us in surrender. Instead of nurturing it, we bilked it for half a trillion dollars throughout the Papa Bush and Clinton Administrations. Both looked the other way while western investors "Enron-ed" Russian bond markets and sunk the Ruble, in direct defiance of Russian Federation legislation. Real nice. Then that country, or what's left of it, is forced to sell off its arms on the black market, and the Chechyans and Muslim fanatic networks become armed to the teeth. What a surprise?

Yeah, I'd say the Russians have been picking themSELVES up by their own bootstraps, with little help from the West at all.

Their current leadership, however, which has done a remarkable job, all things considered, have reason to be rather leery of Bush League agenda, at this point. Our corporate leadership has been lying to them since the end of the Cold War.
 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 8
Russians Not to Blame for Attacks??
Posted: 8/15/2008 5:47:33 AM
Georgia followed the footsteps of Saddam in 1991--thought the superpowers wouldn't mind if they attacked a neighbor. Got surprised when the superpower came in with overwhelming force and knocked out the infrastructure--just like we've done to Iraq since 1991.

Years after we are dead, they'll be doing something and claiming the ass-whupping of 2008 as the reason for it....
 AVulcanRider
Joined: 7/13/2008
Msg: 10
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Russians Not to Blame for Attacks??
Posted: 8/15/2008 6:59:27 AM
And if Russia was worried about how many Civilians were being killed ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
well how many did they kill while bombing the sh*t out of all those cities ???????
 gentalltheway
Joined: 9/9/2006
Msg: 11
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Russians Not to Blame for Attacks??
Posted: 8/15/2008 9:50:41 AM
I had to laugh when I read this...


Bush says Russian 'bullying and intimidation' are not acceptable


And better yet...


bullying and intimidation are not acceptable ways to conduct foreign policy in the 21st century.


Yep...coming from bushie himself!
 darjeeling
Joined: 3/11/2005
Msg: 17
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Russians Not to Blame for Attacks??
Posted: 8/16/2008 6:02:54 AM

If you could have SEEN the parade of hawkish pundits speaking from the podium for the American Enterprise Institute on C-Span yesterday. Endless hours of crap, and a willing media in the audience lapping it all up. Fred Kagan, Ralph Peters, etc., all pontificating and blathering that "evil" Russia was the aggressor, and had this all planned long ago, blah blah blah...

I was very interested in seeing that AIE Symposium but didn't know about it till the last minute at which point I was due to pick up a relative from the Airport so I only got to 'hear' about 30 minutes of it while I was getting cleaned up.

I could feel the bile building and projectile vomiting that was about to commence, before I managed to overcome and turn the channel. ... I find it interesting that C-Span and others from the "liberal media" will carry water for any Reich Wing "think" tank function or press conference for hours on end, whenever they need to "catapult the propaganda," as Boy King once put it. Curious, but when does C-Span give air time to progressive think tanks? Or pluralist speech? Or liberal functions? Peace activists? I've never seen it. But when the Reich wants to beat the war drums? They're like, "where do we plug our mics in?"

Taking your comments in their reverse order, I'm a C-Span junkie, and think they do about as good a job on balance as we might expect to get. I don't actually believe that any prevailing imbalance in C-Span's coverage is due to systemic bias, but might be more accruable to the Right's relatively better use of media in its sophistication to promote itself, which is, not at all accidental, but entirely delberate, and has therefore become functionally systemic.

Which is why I kindly suggest that we all might overcome either urge, to gag or change the channel; and must think of such things as lessons in 'framing' and oppositional research. A Sun Szu recommends ... if one doesn't completely 'know the enemy', you are wasting effort and casting about in the dark.

But back OT and on point, isn't it interesting that AEI had all of its arguments and talking points so neatly laid out to hold a 90 minute symposium for what was a relatively unsuspected turn of events as the Georgian Russian conflict going hot; and unless one thinks that the AIE folks frantically cobbled this togther over the weekend, I would say it suggests a certain degree of foreknowledge to the forces at work.

15 years ago, we had mother Russia rolling over and showing it's soft underbelly for us in surrender. Instead of nurturing it, we bilked it for half a trillion dollars throughout the Papa Bush and Clinton Administrations. Both looked the other way while western investors "Enron-ed" Russian bond markets and sunk the Ruble, in direct defiance of Russian Federation legislation. Real nice. Then that country, or what's left of it, is forced to sell off its arms on the black market, and the Chechyans and Muslim fanatic networks become armed to the teeth. What a surprise?

While I am not exactly familiar with Western machinations in Russia's economic markets, I do not doubt it at all, and wonder how this led to the Russian Oligarch's cornering (plundering) of its natural resources, and find it interesting, that Israel's hand is beginning to show in the Georgian conflict. One does also need to understand that AEI and the PNAC share common ideology and office space in the building they jointly operate from.

@ NERO1 .. Hey you beat me to it; I was just reading this Buchanan piece at Antiwar.com and was going to post it here too.

Tells you how far off the mark these people are when I am actually agreeing with Patrick Buchanan.

I can understand your shock Stella Blue, as Pat Buchanan is generally pretty much 'right on' in his judgements about American policy in foreign affairs, his stance stands in sharp contrast to the neoconservative contingent which he says 'has highlacked the GOP', and as a paleoconservative advances the traditional conservative values of general non-intervention in the sovereign affairs of other nations, use of the US military as a (truly) last resort, and decrying the concepts of phony preemptions and Nation Building. He has also been critical, for several years now, of the provocative Bush policy encircling Russia, and the accompanying rhetoric, that act to 'provoke the Russian bear'.

He's been a featured writer at Antiwar.com for awhile now, his piece 'Whose War?' written on the eve of the Iraq war is truly cogent in its deliniation of the organizations and charaters that most strongly promoted it.

Surprisingly, he is now one of my favorite writers and commentators, while I still disagree with his ideas about social and domestic problems and their remedies, he is not a phony, tells it straight, and as such (IMHO) is deserving of our general respect ... litterally a conservative that one can work with. Bottom line I would much rather deal with a true conservative than a neocon any day, and on this issue the differences in their positions are stark.

caw
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