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 nipoleon
Joined: 12/27/2005
Msg: 42
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A quote from Anais Nin....Page 2 of 5    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5)
The part about this I don't like is the passive/aggressive manipulation aspect of this.
Women who use sex to manipulate men into getting what they want.
Women who think they can get a man by adopting a passive role sexually and excusing themselves from any responsibility for sex and the results of sex later.
There are too many women who play this little game and it's a losing game as well.

This has always been a sticking point with men in regards to female equality.
You can't be submissive and equal at the same time.
Women want to play on the field with the big boys, but they don't want to play hard ball. They don't want to take equal responsibility for sex.
Women want to point their fingers at men and say, " You're the one who has to have it, I'm not the one who needs it like you do ".
Don't you see how this is a sexist and prejudiced attitude ?

I understand the whole lustful, passionate, " in the moment ", sex play.
But, this should not be a basic strategy for a relationship.
 La Gioconda
Joined: 6/27/2008
Msg: 44
A quote from Anais Nin....
Posted: 8/17/2008 9:45:57 AM
I stumbled on this thread, although I hardly ever go and explore subjects of Sexuality on the forums, because I find many are attention seeking. However, laughinglibra I have read a number of your comments in the past and you always impressed me. Since I must step out now and take care of some business, I just wanted to mark this thread so I can come back to it. What you said about female sexuality, it is very true. Anais Nin.... it gave me nice warm shivers, when I read the paragraph from her book. Yes, I want him over me, and always over me and me always under him..oh, god yes.

This what I always try to point out on forums, when people discuss equality issues, but are so fukced up when they try to understand the dynamics between female and male in a romantic relationship. In a bedroom I am a woman and he is a man. and we are not equal, meaning not the same.

Thank you, La Jaconde
 toomuch13
Joined: 6/28/2007
Msg: 45
A quote from Anais Nin....
Posted: 8/17/2008 2:29:13 PM
"You can't be submissive and equal at the same time."

There is a grain of truth to this. The dominant male I was with had major control issues outside of the bedroom, which he needed to work on and I would not tolerate. The submissive man was in the same boat, but on the other side of the spectrum. The bedroom is a microcosm of a relationship and if there is inequality there, it spreads throughout.
 La Gioconda
Joined: 6/27/2008
Msg: 46
A quote from Anais Nin....
Posted: 8/17/2008 3:49:44 PM

The bedroom is a microcosm of a relationship and if there is inequality there, it spreads throughout.


hardly...

inequality in bedrooms, isn't actually about "Inequality per se", it is just a word we are using 'inequality' but the word has different meaning when you apply it to bedroom and versus real life.

Him over me, me under him... it has got nothing to do with 'inequality per se'
 toomuch13
Joined: 6/28/2007
Msg: 47
A quote from Anais Nin....
Posted: 8/17/2008 4:03:45 PM
"inequality in bedrooms, isn't actually about 'Inequality per se', it is just a word we are using 'inequality' but the word has different meaning when you apply it to bedroom and versus real life."

Your experiences have been much different than mine.
 La Gioconda
Joined: 6/27/2008
Msg: 48
A quote from Anais Nin....
Posted: 8/17/2008 4:16:33 PM
It's very possible toomuch13, I don't dispute it. Basically my point was that this kind of inequality that Anais Nin is describing in her book (I will read her more thouroughly), is actually healthy.

Being submissive in life in general, and having to deal with dominant male, that is supressing the feminine, controlling freak.... my experiences with those types were less than positive in bedroom dept, in fact I would say opposite took place in the bedroom. When there is control there is no intimacy and certainly no intimacy in the bedroom either. It is acutally about more control, which kills the intimacy. I go simply numb with those types. Luckily there was only one controlling freak in my life, and nor more, thanks. La Jaconde 2 cents
 toomuch13
Joined: 6/28/2007
Msg: 50
A quote from Anais Nin....
Posted: 8/17/2008 5:28:24 PM
Worldchild I was just going to post about Henry Miller! Henry Miller has a very different account of Anais Nin and felt she left much to be desired in the bedroom. Anais Nin did not have a pleasant life and I agree with you about her inability to write a plot.
 Head451
Joined: 5/14/2006
Msg: 51
A quote from Anais Nin....
Posted: 8/17/2008 6:20:57 PM
Thank you....I loved this superlative Woman in life and revere her now in spirit. This from her diary:
"The personal life deeply lived always expands into truths beyond itself".....As one who has died in the flesh, came back, and is now still living, day to day, I now really know this.
I believe in the passage that you quote, she was expressing that to be fully a woman she wished always to be completely part of the ying-yang of male-female. To be the receiver, acceptor, and then to give back. To be always chased round the circle of life...to be consumed in passion when caught, so that her spirit then flies free with her man. A very Jungian description of Woman as the Godess? It is certain that she was a deep believer in Jung - she recommended him to me as a young man searching....
Again, thank you for pointing others in her direction. Her writings are a deep well to drink from..
 Discerning Virtuosa
Joined: 6/10/2008
Msg: 53
A quote from Anais Nin....
Posted: 8/18/2008 11:06:59 AM

She was lucky to live in an era where men were allowed to be men, and not live in fear of sexual harassment lawsuits


I think many women still enjoy being "taken" or "ravaged" they just want to decide when and by whom.
 Ideoform
Joined: 9/23/2007
Msg: 57
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A quote from Anais Nin....
Posted: 9/23/2008 5:24:04 PM
Its not about equality, its about surrender.

"Love is giving someone the power to destroy you, but trusting them not to."
 Ideoform
Joined: 9/23/2007
Msg: 58
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A quote from Anais Nin....
Posted: 9/23/2008 6:14:05 PM
I'm sorry, kayliecat, its from someone's profile.
I always try to give credit to the author when I have one.
This one said "anonymous" where I found it.
I choose to leave that off because this isn't a quotes thread...I suppose you can Google it.
Maybe I should have done that first.
 krookie
Joined: 10/2/2007
Msg: 59
A quote from Anais Nin....
Posted: 9/23/2008 7:36:51 PM
I've read Anais Nin and about her life. I enjoyed the reading, but must say that I probably disagree with her on many of her views, this being one. She can also be rather fatalistic. I understand the sentiment behind this quote. And I understand many women's desire for this type of behavior from the man in their life. (Certainly has sold many a book) On the other hand, I believe more along the same lines as some previous posters, that it almost comes across as "having your cake and eating it, too".

Since what she is talking about is a "behavior"...or even more correctly, it's a "personality trait", why would a woman think that this trait would stop just when she needs it to (i.e. outside the bedroom)? Additionally, and this is the thing I find most difficult to understand, why would a woman try to condition herself to be more than one person? I don't necessarily believe that she had the same views on relationships as women of today, but I think many people are reading the quote in today's context and this is what's coming across... "I am Woman. Hear me roar!"...oh, except when I'm submitting to and following him...especially in the bedroom.

I honestly don't think that can be done. I think you are who you are. You can be difficult to decipher if you start wanting different things based on different situations. Strikes me as not being true to yourself at all times, too. This doesn't mean that you can't want different things at different times. It means that I don't think your basic behavior or personality can really change. And if it does or if you try to live that way, well, where do you think so much of male confusion over females comes from!!!

And lastly, doesn't the whole thing come down to a want/need to be desired? You can say you're "guiding" him if you want you. You can say it's "passive-aggressive". You can place whatever term on it you want. But, even though she states in the quote that she doesn't want to lose herself...who she is...who she can be... Isn't the basic statement that she wants to be desired by her man? I think this might be where people who disagree with the idea of the quote would say that there is an inequality in her thinking. That you can't have it both ways. You have to be who you are at all times. Work...play...bedroom... I understand the statement. But, in the times we live in, I think it may get a lot of resistance from men. Too much confusion.

(And just so you know, for this reply, I tried to look at the quote in a non-sexual context. I think if it's applied strictly to the bedroom, it only increases the conflict. Here's another of her quotes that speaks to similar thoughts as the OP -

"How wrong is it for women to expect the man to build the world she wants, rather than set out to create it herself." )

Does she want to be an independent thinker or does she want to be a follower? Certainly an interesting life. Good stuff to talk about!
 Ideoform
Joined: 9/23/2007
Msg: 60
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A quote from Anais Nin....
Posted: 9/24/2008 6:27:35 AM

"Does she want to be an independent thinker or does she want to be a follower? "


I am a prodigious thinker.

I have discovered that beyond learning about sex (from the Kinsey Reports, and reading the Karma Sutra,) sex is not at all about thinking. Just the opposite.


""I am Woman. Hear me roar!"...oh, except when I'm submitting to and following him...especially in the bedroom."


This isn't limited to women. I have read that some type A men who are lions in the boardroom want to surrender in the bedroom and will pay a lot to a dominatrix to do so.

The mind is the largest sex organ. But the mind needs both control and release, also.

In the end, nobody really can predict what and where their "buttons" are, and so many quiet, demure women find a powerful man scary in a parking lot, but very relaxing in the bedroom--power can both hurt and protect. It is the opportunity to show vulnerability that is lacking in a seemingly cold world.
 Pleasurelimits
Joined: 3/13/2005
Msg: 65
A quote from Anais Nin....
Posted: 9/24/2008 1:23:27 PM
And, is this why I love her,my LL. 'if you live your life afraid to commit your soul to another then you commit yourself to just exist'. Some see a man's complete commitment to another as a weakness but the knowing woman sees it as a mountain of strength because he is not in fear of losing anything.
 Vannili
Joined: 7/8/2008
Msg: 66
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A quote from Anais Nin....
Posted: 9/24/2008 1:39:50 PM
I am familiar with Anais Nin through her biography her beauty did not ravished by aged. In fact, I fashioned myself on some of her female traits. Thanking you very much libra for sharing this .
 head.cloud123
Joined: 5/29/2009
Msg: 68
A quote from Anais Nin....
Posted: 8/26/2009 9:23:47 PM
What could be more attractive than a woman who doesn't desire you as much as you desire her, uses you to feed her narcissistic tendencies and is too lazy to get on top?




Well, I can't speak for anyone but myself on this...but here's my stance:
I consider the role of Dom to be the pinnacle of servanthood. Did you catch that...as a Dom I consider myself to be a servant. I am a servant who has gained such trust from the master, that they have said to me "My land, and all that I own, I place under you care". The role of Dom is the greatest honor that can be bestowed upon a servant. It is the ultimate demonstration of trust and respect from a woman, for her to want to surrender "her possesions" so completely to a man.

Does that begin to give you an idea of how I think the man should look at the person they are dominating?


Not all men are servants. Most men get nothing out of being doms. Most will tell you it is just extra stress, pressures and demands on them.


Whaaattt? All I can think of, I don't remember where it is, there's an account Henry Miller wrote somewhere about f##king Anais and she was in this "totally passive," "feminine" trip which meant laying there like a sack of cold mashed potatoes and "letting" him do her with a c##rot. Yuck.

She couldn't write a plot to save her soul, either.


So what you're saying is women who think like this are the ones who suck in bed? You're probably right.


<div class='quote'>

"How wrong is it for women to expect the man to build the world she wants, rather than set out to create it herself." )

Men are not servants. Women need to get over this. The only men who would date women who believe in this bullshit are losers.
 head.cloud123
Joined: 5/29/2009
Msg: 69
A quote from Anais Nin....
Posted: 8/27/2009 8:52:12 AM
Bump bump bump bump
 damassteel
Joined: 7/22/2009
Msg: 71
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A quote from Anais Nin....
Posted: 9/9/2009 3:51:36 PM
I resonate with this a lot. My SO had once told me when after I came in late one night horny as hell and just proceeded to fcuk the h*ll out of her, that she loves it when I take her this way. But I've discovered something about myself as well; I like it when I let her have me any way she wants me, when I take control by relenquishing control and just let her "ride it home". Just letting her use me for her pleasure while being there, strong beneath her, watching her go crazy with lust...what trip that is for me.
 InsomniMac
Joined: 12/23/2007
Msg: 72
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A quote from Anais Nin....
Posted: 9/11/2009 12:22:15 AM
Eventually, I've discovered, all women I've loved, been intimate with, or just plain had affairs with all had this same need.

It's been hard for me to reconcile this, because passivity has always come easier to me. I sort of drilled it into myself to be the gentler man... that was a mistake.

Kinda hurts sometimes, honestly, I feel like I gave up something before I knew to value it. I always thought women were simpler and had different, more virtuous desires. I'm a guy, flaws and all. Didn't realize they'd have both virtue and crave dominance.

It doesn't seem to be all women, but in my personal experience it might as well have been.

Live and learn, right?
 Discerning Virtuosa
Joined: 6/10/2008
Msg: 73
A quote from Anais Nin....
Posted: 9/11/2009 8:29:15 AM
Insomnimac - There is nothing wrong with you, and if you are naturally passive, you need to start looking towards a more Dominant woman who likes to be in control. You will be much happier.
 Sabrosura
Joined: 1/7/2009
Msg: 74
A quote from Anais Nin....
Posted: 9/11/2009 8:44:20 AM
Amen!!! Will be Googling her from home................
 LongAfterDark
Joined: 5/17/2008
Msg: 76
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A quote from Anais Nin....
Posted: 9/20/2009 12:44:16 PM
She was born in 1903. That explains a lot.

I was recently with a woman who expected me to initiative everything, make all the moves in bed, decide when and where and how, while she just laid there like an object. It was the most boring experience of my life. If I want someone like that I'll just find a department store mannequin.

 white_flag
Joined: 6/28/2009
Msg: 81
A quote from Anais Nin....
Posted: 9/21/2009 9:09:16 PM
Dave, I think I heart you.
 pearlj
Joined: 3/1/2007
Msg: 82
A quote from Anais Nin....
Posted: 9/22/2009 1:10:23 AM
[quote
"I want to live darkly and richly in my femaleness."


Whew! To have such a gift as to be able to be honoured with such a way of life as Anais describes is truly one lover's gift to another...

The implications of "submission" in Anais' quote are, I think, being misread by many. If a reader takes the time to explore that she is actually commenting on the ecstasy of being able to be all that we are in our core femininity with a man who is able to bring that forward, there is no submissiveness actually involved in that miracle.

Of all that we might miss in our lives as singles, I think this is the greatest cause of our mourning... where we have met that one person who could also revel in the "darkness and richness of our femaleness" and been unable, for whatever reason, to go forward with him.

*sigh*
Wow! I could not possibly have stated my feelings on the subject any better. Except that, I want to live darkly and richly (except I dont believe the connotation of darkness applies so much in modern times...so maybe I would say sacredly, wildly, emboldened and richly) in my femaleness.....only with your insight and wisdom.
I think she was also speaking of absolute complete and full trust, because it takes almost an otherworldly kind of trust to be this intimate to reveal this much about the self.....to another human being....and I have found that very very few are capable of it.
 pearlj
Joined: 3/1/2007
Msg: 83
A quote from Anais Nin....
Posted: 9/22/2009 1:13:31 AM

Generally speaking, during sex men are more goal oriented while women on the other hand want the passion/the feeling of wanting it to last forever.

No, we don't want it to "last forever".......cause, ya know, the cigarette at the end is just bomb! lmao!
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