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 kbodley
Joined: 11/26/2008
Msg: 107
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Independent WomenPage 3 of 8    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8)

Some women that seem very independent in relationship to their men, are tied to their mothers like someone forgot to cut the umbilical cord. The woman is married to her mother, and no-one else.

Believe me, I've been there ,done that. When the mother makes herself your enemy, and has huge influence within her family, you are in for hell. The problem is, at least two people never grew up: your wife and her mother. But they will never see it or acknowledge it. You are just the pseudo-husband and not blood, so you are out in the cold. Oh, it may take a while in some cases, but you will definitely end up with the shaft. Blood will win out.


Well, Huntin' it seems to me that you didn't do a really smash up job of getting to know your wife before you married her. But - whether you want to believe it or not, not all women - independent or otherwise - are like your ex!

First, I would think that the first step toward true 'independence' would include becoming independent from your parents. First you grow up and learn how to support yourself, learn what your own personal belief system is, what values you personally hold dear - separate from what your parents believe. Once you have done this, and are an independent 'adult' you can then become part of a couple!

Unfortunately, many people, both men and women, fail to make this transition. They go from being a child dependent upon their parent, to a spouse! Then when the going gets rough, which life almost certainly will, they find themselves bending to whichever person they find to be the most controlling and/or compelling!

Too bad your wife could not separate herself from her mother! But perhaps she felt that her mother cherished her more as a daughter than you did as a wife? Hmmmm?
 kbodley
Joined: 11/26/2008
Msg: 114
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Independent Women
Posted: 8/27/2009 7:59:48 PM

Those of you women who say in your profile that you are independent, what do you mean? If you are independent in the sense of being a liberated feminist, than this guy's not interested. But independent as in not always needy, but self-sufficient while on your own, that's different.


I can only speak for myself on this one (and I never thought that I would agree with 'wildoutdoorguy' on anything), but when I talk about being "independent" what I am hoping to let the guys on this site know is that I am not looking for a man to provide my financial support (I have a good job that I love); nor am I looking for someone to raise my children (they are raised and on their own); nor am I looking for someone who will come in and repair my car, fix my sink, or lay new flooring (although if you lived in the same abode as I did - and were the handy andy type I would certainly welcome your assistance). In short, I am not here looking for a caretaker, but a caring partner.


I always thought INTERDEPENDENT was the ideal situation in a relationship.


I think that INTERDEPENDENT is a state that people work toward, rather than what you look for in a relationship at the outset. My mother and I can easily work together in the same kitchen to get a family dinner on the table because we have doing it for my entire life. We easily see what the other needs, and also readily realize when our 'help' would be more hindrance rather than assistance. I have tried many times working with other women while trying to get a meal on the table for a gathering of 50 - 60 people, and find the experience terribly frustrating! I think that INTERDEPENDENCE in a relationship is much the same - you develop the ability to read each other and know when your assistance will be help or hindrance!


Independence, to me, speaks of not needing one another. Shoot, God created us to need our mate. We can see that all throughout the Bible.


I would point you back to Proverbs on this one! God's description of the perfect wife in Proverbs is neither weak or needy. She is confident, self-sufficient, and worth her weight in gold! She bargains in the market, is a shrewd business person, and handles her families fortunes wisely and well. This is not a woman who is lacking is her independence. Rather she is a woman who knows her worth, and also knows her husband values and trusts her judgement! Independence does not mean you don't need anyone else, it means that you can shoulder your share of the load and stand strong with anyone that chooses to hitch their wagon to the same harness.


This modern independence in regard to one's spouse or mate, is one of the things that I believe can destroy a relationship if it is overdone. What do the rest of you think?


Wild, I have to tell you that if you think women of 50 or 100 years ago were not independent, I would hate to meet your grandmother! My grandmother helped raise her husbands younger brothers (whose mother had died when they were very young) and then raised 10 children while her husband was out on the range! She was often on her own for days and weeks at a time - and I guarantee you that she made many decisions without consulting her husband! There wasn't a cell phone, telephone, or communication device to be had! She trusted him to do his job 'independently' and he trusted her just the same!


I know that we are all heavily influenced by the last forty years of liberated media. But it is okay to need someone once you are in an intimate relationship with them. And it certainly doesn't make you less strong by admitting that.


We are all heavily influenced by the last forty years of liberated media, but it seems to me that by the stance you take, in your self-righteous religious fervor, completely denigrate the women who stood shoulder to shoulder with their men as they rolled across this country and homesteaded the western US. These women didn't arrive to comfortable farmhouses with running water and indoor plumbing.


I can hear certain liberated feminists now.


Sorry, but someone restarted this thread and wondered where all the interesting, heated comments had gone! So - I just couldn't resist!

Yes - I am independent - and proud of it! If there is a man out there that is lucky enough to have me fall in love with him, he will find a woman that won't expect him to paddle his canoe alone, but can expect me to contribute to our lives, and our love! And - I will expect no less of him than I am willing to give! So - all you 'independent' men, please drop me a line! (Those of you looking for a free ride, please move along!)
 MissyIkie
Joined: 7/25/2007
Msg: 116
Independent Women
Posted: 8/28/2009 5:05:22 PM
Well said, kbodley. I can't think of much more to add, except to say that women like that do exist. kbodley is an example of one and so am I. I was fortunate to be a true partner in a loving marriage. It had its ups and downs yet we were there for one another, both shouldering our share. I didn't have fine dining, and I can't think of too many arguments. I was priveledged to hold my partner up as best I could as he fought cancer. No pretty picture there.

If I am fortunate to find another mate, chances are I will outlive him too, but yet I'm here ready to do it all again. Gladly. Am I doing fine alone? Sure. But having a loving partner at my side would enhance my currently happy life. I would be doubly blessed.

And for you disbelievers that think we only want to be wined and dined, I can only say your filter must be broken if that is the only type of women you are finding out there.
 kbodley
Joined: 11/26/2008
Msg: 117
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Independent Women
Posted: 8/29/2009 9:05:34 AM

I'm not sure that caliber of woman exists anymore. At middle age, they seem to be focused on fine dining, travel, and latte's. I think they would gladly take on the world with their man...as long as it's a pleasant experience :)


Hmmm? Well, if you are conversing with women who spend a great deal of time in the beauty salon, spa, and travel agent, this could be an accurate statement. However, if you look at profiles and see real women who have worked, raised their children, made homes and careers, and navigate well within the modern world, you might find the same caliber of woman.

I just returned from a 'vacation' where I took five elderly (age 76 to 96) relatives on a wonderful tour of Eastern Oregon and Idaho, with a destination of a vacation home in Western Montana. Upon arrival I spent four days cooking and caring for a gathering of 35 relatives - who all gathered to honor my mother's 8 surviving brothers and sisters (ranging in age from 76 to 100 years of age). I shopped, cooked, did dishes, and made sure that all were provided with the opportunity to gather and reconnect with their families! This was a precious opportunity for those of us who were able to be there.

Was I tired at the end of the 10 days? Absolutely! Would I have loved to have another week that I could have spent sitting at a nice resort and being pampered and spoiled? Sure! But - that is not the life that I lead - nor would I have traded the vacation I had for any other!

The question I have is this? Are there any POF guys out there who would have taken just as much joy as I did in sharing the history and beauty of the "Journey Through Time" National Scenic Byway with these elderly relatives? Are there guys out there who would have sat at a picnic table in the national forests, sharing a homemade cookie and a sandwich, and yes loading and unloading the picnic basket and cooler by yourself because your traveling companions are no longer really capable of helping - no matter how much they would like to? Are there POF guys who would get to their destination and really enjoy sitting on a deck in the Flathead National Forest listening to a 100 year old uncle share stories about his trip as a small boy across the country in a Model T from Gig Harbor, Washington to the ranch in the Dakotas?

You guys all complain because you only find women on POF who want to be treated to fine dining, travel, and pampering. Perhaps you need to take a glance in the mirror and ask yourself what kind of women you are contacting. If you fish for tropical beauties, don't complain when that is exactly what you catch!
 kbodley
Joined: 11/26/2008
Msg: 121
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Independent Women
Posted: 8/30/2009 6:51:02 PM
Thanks Kowboi, at least I think so? I'm not really sure about the 'ole lady' crack, but I'll gladly accept the "grand" compliment!

As for wehold's comments, I wasn't intending to toot my own horn, but rather to point out that not all POF women are looking for fine dining and fancy vacations! I am fairly certain that many of my fellow female POFers are just as down to earth, hard working, and yes independent! But - that doesn't mean we aren't interested in a partner - but we're probably spending more time maintaining our careers, our homes, our families, and our communities than we are looking for a sugar daddy to pay our way to the nearest spa vacation!

Spend some time with one of two of us and you may find that we are 'women to ride the river with!' (Touche` Kowboi!)
 Alexander_86
Joined: 6/8/2008
Msg: 122
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Independent Women
Posted: 8/30/2009 10:44:16 PM
Independant is a word. A word with many possible meaning in the context. The fact is that most people (97% "American marriage statistics, 2008) get married at some point in their life. It is simple human nature for us to seek a companion so share our lives with. Which is why a majority of us are on this site.

The origional author of this post said that most marriages are ended by women, which is true, although he said 75% or somthing, in reality its more like 82% in America. However in most cases its not they they are dependant and just leave their man, I think its more of the same complex that exists in our dating society. Women are by nature attracted to the alpha male, which in todays world turns out to be an (Ass-hole). Men are benefited more by a marriage than a women is. In fact married men live LONGER then unmarried men, yet it is the OPPOSITE for women. Divorce and its ever increasing rate is a product of the times. Marriage is looked at as much less permenent then it was 100 years ago. Today people CAN and WILL find somebody better and CAN start their life over again, where-as 100 Years ago it was unheard of to start over at age 35 Ect.

In my oppinion marriage is just like the dating world. Women are attracted to the Ass-holes of the world, marry them and eventually divorce them, then they come back a few years later and fine a nice guy, Like me.. haha.. and Marry him, and dont get divorced again.. Which explains why STATISTICALLY women get one divorce in their live and men who get one usually have SEVERAL... hence the jerks find more women to get with and get divorced all over again..

Questions?
 kbodley
Joined: 11/26/2008
Msg: 125
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Independent Women
Posted: 10/24/2009 9:26:59 PM
What a coincidence that when I finally get a chance to log back on this thread still has a life! I thought I would share with you a conversation I had with one of my brothers today, because I think it speaks to this topic!

Two months ago a purchase a house that needed quite a bit of work, but I got it at an excellent price which made it financially a really good deal. For the past two months I have spent nearly every moment I am not in the office painting, hanging wallpaper, laying new flooring, and setting tile. I finished putting up new lighting, hanging blinds and draperies. and installing chair railing in the living room and dining room today. I was really proud of how well everything turned out and had to call someone to crow a little bit! I called my older brother and in the course of our conversation he made the comment that, "this is why you will never find a man, because you can do all of this on your own." He went on to explain that his wife never touches anything except to hold the ladder and he likes it that way!

So guys, the question becomes do you appreciate women who are not sitting around waiting to marry a home handyman, or do you feel threatened by women who just figure out how to do it themselves - not because they prefer it, but simply because there is no one else there to do the work - and the choice would be to pass up the opportunity???
 5dMikeii
Joined: 11/29/2009
Msg: 127
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Independent Women
Posted: 12/13/2009 3:33:15 AM
Personally, I like it when women are proud to be independent. That way I know they are with me because they like me and want to enjoy my company. Not because they "need a man" or are financially dependent, or in any other way needy of something from me. I'd rather be wanted than needed any day.
 kbodley
Joined: 11/26/2008
Msg: 128
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Independent Women
Posted: 12/14/2009 8:34:52 AM

I'd rather be wanted than needed any day.


How true! I saw a posting one day from a POFer that said he wasn't looking for a woman he could live with, but rather one that he couldn't live without!

I think the issue that many men have is that many women think that being independent means that they must never share, never lean, and never need help. Instead I think once you are truly 'independent' you realize that if you are truly independent and self-confident, you realize that you can share your hopes, dreams, and fears realizing that you aren't necessarily asking for someone to take care of you, but to care about you! A truly independent and self-confident person realizes that there are many times when it is perfectly acceptable to lean on someone you trust during times when you feel the need to to strengthen and regenerate, so that you can be there to provide support when they need someone to lean on! Those who are truly strong and independent realize that help offered from people who care about our welfare is not meant to tear you down, but to build you up. I grew up with the adage, 'many hands make light work!' It also means that goals are reached more quickly and when finally reached you have people who truly value the accomplishment and are there to celebrate the finish line!

Independence has nothing to do with who opens the doors, or pays for dinner. Anyone (either male or female) who reduces independence to such mundane and ridiculous acts is missing the entire picture!

Find me a man that wants to walk with me, enjoy the journey, and celebrate at the destination!
 kbodley
Joined: 11/26/2008
Msg: 133
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Independent Women
Posted: 12/14/2009 7:44:25 PM
Wild, you are one of the reasons that the Oregon forum has gone completely dead. I posted nothing that mentioned scripture, Jesus, my Christian belief's (or anyone else's)! But - it is like you lay in wait for me -or other women who don't necessarily agree with your very narrow philosophies - to post anything - AND THEN YOU WORK VERY HARD at misinterpreting what we post to imply that we are undermining the belief system that you hold near and dear!

I feel very sorry for you Wild. I am perfectly secure in my salvation through Christ. I don't need anyone to reaffirm that faith - and I don't need to apologize to you for my strength and courage in facing he adversity of life. We each make our way, day by day, through this life - and at the end of it we will face our creator alone. I''m not the least bit worried. Thanks for reminding me once again why I have avoided the Oregon forums! Good reminder! See you on the flip side!
 5dMikeii
Joined: 11/29/2009
Msg: 137
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Independent Women
Posted: 12/16/2009 8:54:47 PM

I apologize for my post, as it was not really constructive -- I should have taken the time to elaborate. It is true any one poster can not "kill" a forum. A poster can certainly have an impact on the tenor and user experience of the forum, though. Which in turn will cause some posters to choose not to participate as readily.


You should not apologize. You were absolutely right. I am new to POF, and even newer to the forums. I just checked out the Oregon forums for the first time a few days ago, and the type of intolerance I've seen here, and you so accurately pointed out, makes me not want to bother. I doubt I'll be spending much time here.
 5dMikeii
Joined: 11/29/2009
Msg: 138
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Independent Women
Posted: 12/16/2009 9:01:38 PM
Oh, and Kbodley. I don't know you and haven't followed your posts, but as a man I feel outright embarassed at the treatment you have been given here, when all you were trying to do was share a little bit of yourself. Good for you for being a self confident, independent woman. That doesn't make you a god, it makes you healthy. And if god exists, I would think he would want people more like you in his flock.
 MolderA
Joined: 11/11/2009
Msg: 140
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Independent Women
Posted: 12/17/2009 5:35:35 AM
I think you misread outdoor guy. I'm not the one who said that, the one i called out was the guy who said that.
 Gemguy
Joined: 7/8/2006
Msg: 143
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Independent Women
Posted: 12/18/2009 2:02:22 AM
Delurking/ (again)
Wildoutdoorguy,
I suppose I better "get in front of" Moulder and respond to your post. I described your perspective as "somewhat outdated" to illustrate the rather righteous tone your posts (in this thread) are steeped in. I find it interesting that you immediately label the opposing viewpoint as "liberal" without actually knowing how different that viewpoint might be from yours. You sound like you read more of the Old Testament than the New Testament, just a feeling I have ...

As for the other questions you ask about my not accepting Christianity : Who cares?
Your beliefs are not shared by me. Get over it and move on.
A hint about moving on: I don't ask myself the questions you concocted. Except for the "eternity" part, science answers all those questions wonderfully for me. Since "I" wasn't around at the beginning of time, "I" won't be around for eternity. I don't plan on getting out of here alive Wildoutdoorguy.

Which takes me to ask you (and other devout Xtains) a question. I should set this up for you - so you know the context of my question. As I wrote previously, I work in a retail environment. It has happened on many occasions over the last 30 years that I will have a perfectly fine interaction with a customer that comes grinding to a halt because they feel inclined to ask, "What Church do you belong/go to?". To which I generally answer, "I don't discuss my faith/beliefs with others at my job, thank you." They ALWAYS continue asking questions about my religious beliefs, despite my polite and firm refusal to give them comfort. They have no idea about my beliefs; whether a I'm Xtain or not. They know nothing, yet they continue to query me.

{A very brief side story: I knew a guy in California that was a neighbor for a short time. He had left the priesthood (Catholic IIRC) to marry a woman he loved. He worked at another type of specialty retail trade and got the same questions and answered the same as I. Had a woman lecture him on being "godless" and referred him to her Catholic church. To which he said," Oh, I know Father So & So, he did well in seminary, but he didn't take my direction when it came to sermons. His church attendance is going down." The woman supposedly turned several shades of red and left quickly.}

So the question: Why must you (editorial you) state your Xtain faith and then demand to know if I share your views? Before you answer, please limit your answer WITHOUT using biblical rhetoric, IE: "God wants us to spread the word of God... or My life is so filled with the spirit of Christ that I have to share my... " You know the blather I'm taking about.
Just answer like the God given brain you have is really working, that's all I ask.

As for the original topic: Independent women good. Clingy women bad. I can get my own beer, I might cook better than you and yes, I iron. I also work on my car, do landscape work fine and like to fix things. I don't expect a woman to do all of the same things, but I do expect her to do many of the same things.
Take care,
Gemguy

ReLurking/ Again!
 Cow_Girl_Up
Joined: 12/2/2009
Msg: 145
Independent Women
Posted: 1/23/2010 2:57:07 AM
First of all "dude", would you call your self an independant man....all that means is that you dont need any one to take care of you....that you are willing to pull your weight.....I have been married twice and have 4 kids.....I got a divorce the first time because my first husband was verbally abusive and threatening and put me down and was so controlling that I couldnt even leave the house unless I told him were I was going and when I would be home then if I was 10 min. late he would acuse me of sleeping around. He told me what I could and couldnt watch on tv and told me I can not take naps in the middle of the day, when I was pregnant........then when I was pregnant with his child, he cheated on me with a co-worker and their affair lasted 8 months....I was not cheating on him.

My second marriage was to a cop, he told me on Valentines day, after 13 yrs. of marriage that he did not love me and he had been fighting just to come home every night, for that past two years....I then found porn sights on our computer, a profile of him on the swingers site, and a cell phone bill of his, with a woman he worked around.....he had been calling her every morning just to make sure she ordered breakfast, because he worried about her eating.....this is the same man who when he got mad would scream and yell at me in front of our three kids, throw his plate on the floor when he didnt have garlic bread with his spagetti, and put a hole in the laundry room door, and would not let me walk away when i was angry.....then to top things off he left me and would not give me a divorce....he wanted control over whether he gave me money or not.....then he went and bought a house and new mustang convertible....leaving me in a house that belonged to his mother, with her living next door.....I have a shit job of $7.76 an hour and could not afford to pay the utilities....

So my use of the phrase "I am an independant woman"......means I dont need a man. I can take care of myself.....however, if I find that certain man who would like to walk beside me, he had better be independant, because if he treats me the way my two ex's did, then he is out of there......And I wont have to worry about him leaving me with nothing.....



 Cow_Girl_Up
Joined: 12/2/2009
Msg: 146
Independent Women
Posted: 1/23/2010 3:06:46 AM
By the way that was 9 yrs ago....now i make $17.00 an hour and take care of other people before and after surgery and work with mentally ill pt.s.....So I have been very successfull at being independant......
 Cow_Girl_Up
Joined: 12/2/2009
Msg: 147
Independent Women
Posted: 1/23/2010 3:28:12 AM
Wildoutdoorguy: Oh man, I just read your last post.....I must have missed that.....
Let me tell you something....God is my heavenly father, and I am his child, pure and simple.....It has nothing to do with a man being the boss of me and calling all the shots....or being so controlling that he is abusive to me....

I do not have a denomination and no longer go to church due to sick people and mentally ill people do not stop being sick just because it's sunday.....just like a person does not stop beleiving in God just because they choose not to be abused by men any longer.....I am more spiritual then I ever was when I was married.....

You sound like a southern baptist.....some one who wants to keep woman bare foot and pregnant just so you can be the boss.....telling them what is good for them....and how to do things.....being in controll does not make you a christian man.....Walking next to your woman and being there when she needs you, as well as caring about her feelings.

Quoting the bible does nothing more then prove you had a lot of time on your hands, to read it....When some one doesnt agree with you, then you quote the bible....that is a mis use of my heavenly fathers book....the bible is meant to guide us along on our journey, until we are called home again.....it is not meant to hide behind when you dont like what other people are saying and you want to be right....You will understand when you face God, what unconditional love really is.....and you will understand that you have been blowing steam out of you underside.....

So please don't quote the bible to some of us.....we just may know more then you about what God is really about.....
 MissyIkie
Joined: 7/25/2007
Msg: 148
Independent Women
Posted: 1/23/2010 9:54:19 AM
I am a strong, independent woman, but it wasn’t always so. Life experiences have made me rely heavily on my faith to get through them. Most recently was the loss of my husband 3 years ago. He was truly my best friend and that marriage (my third) was a success. It was a true partnership where he was proud of my accomplishments and supported me. He celebrated my independence and knew how to support me when I needed him to. I never had to ask. And watching him get sicker and sicker was so incredibly hard. I loved this man to the depths of my soul and his passing hurt beyond measure. But again, my faith helped get me through.

Knowing my God loves me gives me the daily strength to be the woman I strive to be. Faith is what holds me up and makes me strong. Love of my God makes me know I will be fine without a man in my live should I never find someone else to fill that spot. My independence is a result of the confidence I have in my faith. I know what I know. I know the woman I strive to be, I know I’m on the right path.
I am not a religious person. I am not a reader of the bible. But my faith is what I draw my strength upon and anyone who judges that is not a true Christian. God is the only one who can judge me. And anyone wanting to counter that will just be spouting, “blah, blah, blah.”

It is so easy to judge others. But aren’t we supposed to open our hearts to one another, not judge everyone? I suspect many of us don’t find our next special someone because we judge. So much of life is missed when we allow our hearts to be cynical. It is a shame. For me, I choose to remain open, loving and most of all, strong and independent.
 EasyPeasy72
Joined: 11/15/2009
Msg: 149
Independent Women
Posted: 1/24/2010 11:04:05 PM
What if a woman says independent to mean not needy and clingy?
 MissyIkie
Joined: 7/25/2007
Msg: 152
Independent Women
Posted: 1/26/2010 8:35:06 AM
bjswafford61, I think you defined it very well. I don't know why women think that to be independent, they have to quit being ladies. It seems to be a characteristic we decided to throw away in the 70's with our bras and femininity. It is possible to be a strong, independent woman and appreciate old fashioned values and manners. And in my book it takes strength of character to allow men to be men. It was hard for me to start allowing the door to be held for me, but practice makes perfect. And you know? I like it when a man treats me like a lady.
 forum_moderator
Joined: 1/24/2003
Msg: 155
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Independent Women
Posted: 1/28/2010 2:53:23 PM
A refresher course for some is needed

Posting Guidelines

Acceptable Use and Posting Rules

Terms of Service/User Agreement.

 2bornot2be2
Joined: 10/26/2009
Msg: 156
Independent Women
Posted: 1/28/2010 8:06:27 PM
Who called the cops?!!
 MissyIkie
Joined: 7/25/2007
Msg: 157
Independent Women
Posted: 1/28/2010 9:10:35 PM
I don't know but I'm glad they showed up. The last post had me spitting nails I was so irritated. Now I don't feel compelled to respond.
 kbodley
Joined: 11/26/2008
Msg: 160
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Independent Women
Posted: 3/13/2010 8:45:32 AM
Is it possible that both women and men today are no more or less "happy" than they were a 100 years ago? Is it possible that the difference today is that we (both men and women) are free to change our lives if we are "not" happy?

In my honest opinion, if we are happy and confident in ourselves, happy with the lives we have built, then we are truly ready to find someone who will enhance and add to that life. At that point, we should be able to give of ourselves to someone else who has also built a life that is happy, fulfilled and comfortable.

And - if we are honest with the people that we meet, we won't be worrying about whether or not they are worried about the divorce rate today as compared to a 100 years ago!
 Captain_Wayne
Joined: 5/24/2010
Msg: 166
Independent Women
Posted: 9/18/2010 12:55:23 AM
I like independant women. My red flag goes up when the interests on their profile say things like Wiccan, Faith Healing, Astrology, etc.
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