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 jelunc
Joined: 8/24/2008
Msg: 26
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The Dumbing Down Of The American Mind Page 2 of 7    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7)
[ It all started in the mid 1960's with the hippies. I was watching some stuff on the history channel the other day about this and I pondered to myself while I was watching it that the 1960's had to be one of the most embarrassing times if not the most embarrassing times in american society. Russia was prob like and why didn't we nuke them again? ]

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the History Channel, just don't take what they have to say as the total picture, do further reading and investigation.
I came to adulthood in the late sixties and early seventies, the History Channel reflects a very small segment of the population and events of the time.
 SteelCity1981
Joined: 8/16/2005
Msg: 27
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History
The Dumbing Down Of The American Mind
Posted: 8/28/2008 4:45:01 AM
No I get what you’re saying and I understand that the entire nation didn't turn hippie and that all the hippies didn’t have this bizarre view. I talked to a lot of people as well that were growing up in the 60's. I was mainly looking at the minority that did have that view and ended up going bust and had to step back into the real world.
 CharlesEdm
Joined: 9/16/2006
Msg: 28
The Dumbing Down Of The American Mind
Posted: 8/28/2008 4:57:10 AM
Heh you know what? I could point out all the great things that came out of the 60's, and how other countries have done very well by not abandoning these thoughts, but it really is off topic.

Anyway, back to the subject. One of the largest dumbing down influences and one that is of increasing concern is the home schooling evangelical movement. It exists purely to remove the possibility of outside information from the development of children.

Also, youtube documentaries. Good god you can find a youtube documentary that says virtually anything, no matter how stupid it is. Look up some freaking citations people!
 SteelCity1981
Joined: 8/16/2005
Msg: 29
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History
The Dumbing Down Of The American Mind
Posted: 8/28/2008 5:08:19 AM
I wasn't saying the 60's itself was bad. I know there were a lot of good things that came out of the 60's I can name them to.

I don't trust some evangelicals, and not because their Christian because that would be hypocritical because I’m Christian, but the ones like Huckabee. I was so damn glad that he lost. Those are the types of people you don't want in office, because he is the type that will start influencing his religious ways into his policy and I’m firmly against that from any religion. I mean we see how much of a mess some of these Middle Eastern countries are when religion influences politics. If you allow one in they, all want to come in.
 CharlesEdm
Joined: 9/16/2006
Msg: 30
The Dumbing Down Of The American Mind
Posted: 8/28/2008 5:32:35 AM
You have no idea how scary the modern evangelical movement is. I suggest reading "American Fascist" it's a christian journalist who is discussing exactly these issues and how it is poisoning the political process. They in many ways resemble and emulate the extremist muslim movements, they've simply been tempered by the secular nature of north american society (people won't put up with their shit... mostly...)

They rely on the dumbing down of their followers. The ellimination of critical thought, and the restricted access to outside sources of information. It's why they have evangelical christian television, radio, dating sites, education, textbooks, ect.

Here is a link, seriously good read, if you lived anywhere near here I'd lend it to you.

http://www.amazon.com/American-Fascists-Christian-Right-America/dp/0743284437
 SteelCity1981
Joined: 8/16/2005
Msg: 31
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The Dumbing Down Of The American Mind
Posted: 8/28/2008 5:40:39 AM
Oh I have a very good idea, I live in evangelical USA. Some of their churchs look like damn baskeball arena's. I know exactly what goes on in many of their churchs. A lot of evangelicals are frauds look at Pentecostalism for example. Holy crap talk about a sucker fest. If you can believe that some normal guy can hit you over the head and cure anything in your body then you will believe just about anything. These types of people are almost as bad as the radical islam movement in the same sense of how they pray on the weak and brainwash them into thinking their agenda.
 Reddwine
Joined: 4/15/2006
Msg: 32
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The Dumbing Down Of The American Mind
Posted: 8/28/2008 11:40:48 AM
It all started in the mid 1960's with the hippies. I was watching some stuff on the history channel the other day about this and I pondered to myself while I was watching it that the 1960's had to be one of the most embarrassing times if not the most embarrassing times in american society. Russia was prob like and why didn't we nuke them again?


So let me see if I have this right. Because you saw this on tv, you think its all true and a fact? This is exactly whats wrong with society today.

Embarrassing? You are kidding, right? I was there and I dont remember ever being embarrassed. What's embarrassing is the fact you think this is true. Believe half of what you see and nothing you hear.

You might want to go to the library and read a few books on this issue. You will find you dont know all the story. It was the greatest time in the history of time, as far as Im concerned.

Those years were much better than whats going on these days. To be honest with you, Im glad Im on my way out the door. The world has gone to hell in a hand basket compaired to the 'Happy Days'.

Get the real facts and get back with us, there will be a test on this later.
 TheStefano
Joined: 6/15/2008
Msg: 33
The Dumbing Down Of The American Mind
Posted: 8/28/2008 11:47:02 AM
I was there in the 60's and it was a huge, huge explosion and burst of freedom, creativity, fun and just plain enjoyment of living, and that included breaking out of the very narrow confines of the conformist society that came after Eisenhower's time.......it was the greatest time to be alive that I've known since ...
 slysterling
Joined: 1/9/2007
Msg: 34
The Dumbing Down Of The American Mind
Posted: 8/28/2008 11:58:52 AM
^^^Doubtfully you'll see anytime soon such a time as the times of the fervent belief Americans had in themselves and their nation as they had then. People like those shot down at Kent State for standing up for themselves, their beliefs, their country, shows how badly the apathy has set in two generations later.

Doubtful that over half the folks under 30 ever even heard of what happened at Kent State.

"""...Do you recall what was revealed the day..."""

=========
...The players tried for a forward pass,
With the jester on the sidelines in a cast.

Now the half-time air was sweet perfume
While the sergeants played a marching tune.
We all got up to dance,
Oh, but we never got the chance!
`cause the players tried to take the field;
The marching band refused to yield.
Do you recall what was revealed
The day the music died?

We started singing,
"bye-bye, miss american pie."
Drove my chevy to the levee,
But the levee was dry.
Them good old boys were drinkin’ whiskey and rye
And singin’, "this’ll be the day that I die.
"this’ll be the day that I die."

http://www.don-mclean.com/viewsong.asp?id=89

===========

So regards the OP's OP: How did you get here? And how are you planning to turn it around? And can you?

I have my theories on the first question, but I'd have to put on my banned tinfoil hat to give my response, so I'll just have to keep it to myself.
 SteelCity1981
Joined: 8/16/2005
Msg: 35
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History
The Dumbing Down Of The American Mind
Posted: 8/28/2008 3:10:00 PM

So let me see if I have this right. Because you saw this on tv, you think its all true and a fact? This is exactly whats wrong with society today.


Seriously did you even read any of my post or did just skipped through them? Get you facts striaght i said i have known lots of people from the 60's as well.



Embarrassing? You are kidding, right? I was there and I dont remember ever being embarrassed. What's embarrassing is the fact you think this is true. Believe half of what you see and nothing you hear.


So just because you were there makes it a fact and no one else's is view point matters even though they to have lived through the 60's as well and have said the complete opposite that you are saying? LOL. I mean, at least i'm not proclaiming they were fact. Get your head out of you know where. The embrassing part about this is, you trying to make your own opinions into fact.



You might want to go to the library and read a few books on this issue. You will find you dont know all the story. It was the greatest time in the history of time, as far as Im concerned.


Again you are taking more of your own view points and trying to twist them in to facts.



Get the real facts and get back with us, there will be a test on this later.


The real fact is what you think is fact is based on really your opinion.
 Reddwine
Joined: 4/15/2006
Msg: 36
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Posted: 8/28/2008 3:45:12 PM
did you read what I said?

I w a s t h e r e.
 SteelCity1981
Joined: 8/16/2005
Msg: 37
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The Dumbing Down Of The American Mind
Posted: 8/28/2008 3:51:38 PM
So, was millions of other people like my mother and father so what's your point?.

So you think just because you lived in that decade back then that everyone else living in that decade back then agrees with you?

You don't have to be "there" to know a lot about something. Take the civil war experts for example living today. Were they there at the time the civil war took place? No, but are you going to deny their knowledge, just because they weren't there? Your argument is moot.
 CharlesEdm
Joined: 9/16/2006
Msg: 38
The Dumbing Down Of The American Mind
Posted: 8/28/2008 3:54:21 PM

And people call the religious fanatic. Christian ideals poisoning the political process? By that you mean created, I guess?


Well politics predates Christianity, never mind north America, so Christianity obviously doesn't apply there.

And common law (the system that the US is based on) is certainly not based on Christianity.

Democracy certainly wasn't invented by a Christian.

Additionally I didn't say Christian ideals are poisoning the political process. I said Christian fundamentalism is poisoning the political process.

So on the face of it, you're entire statement is wrong, it replies to something I didn't say, with a correction that isn't true.

Thanks for the handsome comment though :)
 427cammer
Joined: 3/1/2008
Msg: 39
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The Dumbing Down Of The American Mind
Posted: 8/28/2008 4:39:30 PM
I agree with SteelCity, the dumbing down of America did begin in the 60's. And not just in America, our children in Canada have been failed also by an education system where disciplining students is next to impossible.

It was rhetoric from the 60's that started the abandonment of corporal punishment in schools (and homes). Somehow along with corporal punishment, disciplinary action of any type seems to have fallen along the wayside. Angry parents attack teachers when their little angels are scolded in the most minor attempts at discipline. When I grew up nobody would mention to their parents how a teacher had yelled at you that day; for some reason mom and dad knew I was capeable of doing everything that the teacher said I did. Having boundaries seemed to have worked. I knew that mom and dad were capable of making me compliant to the teachers every wish if I didn't behave, so I worked to make sure very few tales ever reached home.

"Young minds should not be restricted (or structured)" and "children should ALWAYS be allowed to speak" and "we can use chemicals to improve peoples behaviour" are all ideas born from the 60's. Maybe it's time to rethink.

Several years ago I read a quote (I believe it was by Socrates) that basically said "the children of this generation are spoilt, dumb and disrespectful." This was said several thousand years ago and I assume that the purpose of this quote in modern times is to show people that kids aren't getting any worse, so we should just quit our belly-achin'. Assuming that there is a consensus among people that we really are getting dumber, maybe NOW this statement is proving truer than at any other time in history.
 jack-d-ripper
Joined: 2/25/2008
Msg: 40
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The Dumbing Down Of The American Mind
Posted: 8/28/2008 4:49:48 PM

I agree with SteelCity, the dumbing down of America did begin in the 60's. And not just in America, our children in Canada have been failed also by an education system where disciplining students is next to impossible.





The process started because of the 60's?

In the 60's the middle class gained too much power, too much education, to much money....
 ErikSFBay
Joined: 8/2/2004
Msg: 41
The Dumbing Down Of The American Mind
Posted: 8/28/2008 4:55:46 PM
Bingo Jack!

there were two times in American history when the US had a strong middle class.

One was the during the Revolution and the other was Post WWII when Roosevelt and Johnson's great society was in full swing.

Both resulted in political revolutions that enlightened not only America, but the world by inspiring political inclusion across the world!
 Pickme83
Joined: 6/13/2007
Msg: 42
The Dumbing Down Of The American Mind
Posted: 8/28/2008 4:56:27 PM
Hey if ignorance is truly bliss this could be a good thing.
 427cammer
Joined: 3/1/2008
Msg: 43
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The Dumbing Down Of The American Mind
Posted: 8/28/2008 5:04:51 PM
I never said the 60's were a wasted decade. I think a lot of ideas on parenting and educating born in the 60's have proven to be less than desireable.

The most monumemental achievement from the 60's would be the civil rights movement. It was people like Martin Luther King Jr., Medgar Evers, Rosa Parks, and even Jackie Robinson or Cassius Clay who deserve credit for that piece of history, NOT the hippies. The longhaired acid-dropping types were mostly just along for the ride.There was some good music though.
 SteelCity1981
Joined: 8/16/2005
Msg: 44
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Posted: 8/28/2008 5:06:11 PM

NOT the hippies. The longhaired acid-dropping types were mostly just along for the ride.There was some good music though.


Two Thumbs UP!
 jack-d-ripper
Joined: 2/25/2008
Msg: 45
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The Dumbing Down Of The American Mind
Posted: 8/28/2008 5:48:26 PM

Both resulted in political revolutions that enlightened not only America, but the world by inspiring political inclusion across the world!


The push for education starting in the 50's ...
GI bill ...
Free College in several states ( Reagan ended it in California).....
Increased union membership (Numbers peaked in the 70's ...1/3 of the workforce 50's) ...

The Middle class was too large....

It has taken time but it is shrinking....
 TheStefano
Joined: 6/15/2008
Msg: 46
The Dumbing Down Of The American Mind
Posted: 8/28/2008 6:07:41 PM
I'm sorry, did someone say that there was a middle class at the time of the American Revolution?
 jack-d-ripper
Joined: 2/25/2008
Msg: 47
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The Dumbing Down Of The American Mind
Posted: 8/28/2008 6:22:40 PM
What would you call the farmer land owners?
 mungojoe
Joined: 11/15/2006
Msg: 48
The Dumbing Down Of The American Mind
Posted: 8/28/2008 6:29:31 PM

I'm sorry, did someone say that there was a middle class at the time of the American Revolution?

Give 'em a break there, it's part of the dumbing down process.

The middle class of the time was the "merchant class" (the shopkeeps and such) with the "landed class" (the rich land owners) above and the "peasant class" (tenant farmers and such) below.

Really, you can't expect most people in this day and age to be able to make those kinds of distinctions, it's part of the dumbing down of general knowledge today.
 a bit nomadic
Joined: 6/14/2006
Msg: 49
The Dumbing Down Of The American Mind
Posted: 8/28/2008 6:30:29 PM
If "dumbing down" in the political arena can be traced to the 1960's, I'd say that the critical catalysts were probably the Vietnam War and the assassinations of JFK, King and RFK, with the immense despair that followed from those things, along with the corruption of the Nixon presidency, following on the tails of the RFK assassination, that truly fostered rampant cynicism--the belief that ideals don't matter when it comes to politics and the political process. Things have simply gone from bad to worse in the way people imagine their "voices" mattering. What's beautiful to see now is the re-emergence of the idea that we CAN hope for something better--I think this is likely a "rock bottom" moment in our history, leading (hopefully) to recovery.

When it comes to education and what we can expect from our students, I see two problems (not JUST two, but two biggies), which are linked: the commodification of education (spoken to in earlier posts) and the modern phenomenon of television culture, which has helped to create a nation of people who believe that they can gain understanding of complex issues via sound-bites and through a filter that means that they never have to read or even think to learn (and learning itself is done grudgingly, by so many, simply for the larger paycheck at the end of the process). When it SEEMS that nothing requires the use of effort or imagination and/or thought--not even FUN--we are easily made to BELIEVE that that nothing requires effort or imagination and/or thought....which makes us too ready to be led in whatever direction, simply because we ARE eager to take the low and easy road.

IMO, Bush's presidency didn't CREATE "dumbing down": it's a RESULT of it.
 slysterling
Joined: 1/9/2007
Msg: 50
The Dumbing Down Of The American Mind
Posted: 8/28/2008 6:38:53 PM

...the immense despair that followed from those things, along with the corruption of the Nixon presidency, following on the tails of the RFK assassination, that truly fostered rampant cynicism--the belief that ideals don't matter when it comes to politics and the political process...


That's pretty close to where i would pin it down if i were to hazard a guess. I think Watergate was kind of the last straw and people really turned away and a lot less people gave a damn anymore.
Our grade 10 history class at the time involved the teacher, who was also the senior football coach, having a tv in the classroom and we watched the Watergate hearings while he tried to impress upon us what was happenning.

And in the people turning away, it hasn't been pretty since, but it is where it is.
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