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 Dei Gratia
Joined: 7/28/2005
Msg: 154
Creation vs EvolutionPage 2 of 156    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41)
"The writer to the Hebrew says, 'Through faith we understand that the ages were framed by the Word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.' (Heb 11:3). This leaves no room for the theory of evolution which holds that the things that are seen today were made of pre-existing material."

[Compare. Jer 51:15-16]:

(v. 15) "He made the earth by His power; He founded the world by His wisdom and stretched out the heavens by His understanding.

(v. 16) When He thunders the waters in the heavens roar; He makes clouds rise from the ends of the earth. He sends lightning with the rain and brings out the wind form His storehouses."

"In Jeremiah 51:15, the prophet, by the Word of the Lord, declared... [that] ...God designed the earth by His wisdom and power; He created all of it perfectly. But then, in the following verse, there is a transitional statement. We find that there is now rain, lightning, and a water cycle. Before the flood, there was no rain: a mist went up and watered the earth. But now, there is a judged ecosphere: we see mountains, snows, and varying temperatures.

"The miracle does not awaken you, but merely shows you who the dreamer is."
 CountIbli
Joined: 6/1/2005
Msg: 157
an example of adaptation by the Creator - specific immunity
Posted: 8/19/2005 7:40:03 PM


What is the scientific explanation for love ? If evolution was completely true, animals would feed and leave.


The reason why so many animals exhibit pack/social behavior is that it increases the survival chances of everyone in the pack/society. Interestingly you don't find love amongst the reptiles. They lay their eggs and leave, never to see them again. They're largely solitary animals. Fish and amphibians don't show love either. Fish will eat their own children. Why did God decide to withhold love from these animals?
 CountIbli
Joined: 6/1/2005
Msg: 159
an example of adaptation by the Creator - specific immunity
Posted: 8/19/2005 8:04:12 PM
What about non-snake reptiles? And wouldn't it be pretty silly to punish all snakes for the sins of their forefather? Besides, shouldn't this just apply to talking snakes anyway?

Dogs let kids ride on their back because they get food to do stupid things like that.
 CountIbli
Joined: 6/1/2005
Msg: 163
Circulatory system obviously created
Posted: 8/20/2005 5:19:14 PM
Your calculation of probabilities is based on two faulty premises. To wit:

1) The creation of the system was random.
2) The systems existence was pre-ordained.

As to (1) natural selection is not a random process. It preferentially filters out genes that lead to lower survivability.

As to (2) evolution didn't have a grand plan for what it was going to strive for millions of years hence. We may start out with a very simple system whose function is nothing like the modern more complicated system. For example, the complex eye (e.g. as found in humans) began as a simple patch of photosensitive cells. Some animals never evolved past that stage.
 shadowgirl58
Joined: 7/24/2005
Msg: 165
Creation vs Evolution
Posted: 8/21/2005 7:28:43 AM
yes evolution-what species will be next????some nuclear mis-hap of a mutant gene???
or r we already evolved from a bloodline that was imperfect?

the teaching of the evolution and or of the teachings of any thing should be a prerequisite?
 CountIbli
Joined: 6/1/2005
Msg: 166
CountIbli: Circulatory system obviously created
Posted: 8/21/2005 8:02:52 AM


comment: oh, since natural selection is not a random process, and is preferential, you apparently therefore agree that it is a guided process. Good, good, Count. I was afraid you were of those on the Dark Side!


Yes, it's guided by death non-personified. There's also sexual selection, which is also not random, which is guided by the urge to merge, as it were. Of course there are some random processes which effect evolution, mutation and genetic drift, so evolution is really a mix of random and non-random forces.
 Dei Gratia
Joined: 7/28/2005
Msg: 171
Creation vs Evolution
Posted: 8/22/2005 5:55:40 PM
Forget it what should really happen is here are all the questionable reason as to how the earth evolved students now you pick the topic that suits you and write about why you think it is so.

Almost a majority through the years will pick the Bible creation over any other I am sure.

That will be nothing that the teacher forces apon them and then the students can learn what they think is correct.

Hee hee It is no better than the way it is going now....LOL
 CountIbli
Joined: 6/1/2005
Msg: 175
Creation vs Evolution
Posted: 8/23/2005 5:57:01 PM


I personally believe that evolution exists. I also believe you had to evolve FROM something. If you are going to tell me that a hundred million years of random collisions of semi-organic molecules created Michelle Pfieffer, I'm going to laugh in your face.


Is it any more believable that there were talking snakes 6000 years ago?
 CountIbli
Joined: 6/1/2005
Msg: 178
Creation vs Evolution
Posted: 8/23/2005 6:53:59 PM
And all those animals lost the power of speech? Must have been evolution, eh?
 CountIbli
Joined: 6/1/2005
Msg: 180
Creation vs Evolution
Posted: 8/24/2005 9:38:52 AM
My cat always seems to want to talk to me. Was Mr. Ed really just fiction? Was Dr. Doolittle history?
 CountIbli
Joined: 6/1/2005
Msg: 182
Creation vs Evolution
Posted: 8/24/2005 10:07:12 AM
I guess if you believe in the Bible you'll believe anything.
 CountIbli
Joined: 6/1/2005
Msg: 187
Creation vs Evolution
Posted: 8/24/2005 5:53:15 PM
Well, since we have several people who think that there are talking snakes who simply decided to not to talk to us, I think it's fair to say they'd believe in anything.
 CountIbli
Joined: 6/1/2005
Msg: 188
Creation vs Evolution
Posted: 8/24/2005 5:55:45 PM
Why do you think that kicking back with a beer in a Barcolounger watching a Sony Grand Wega is the goal of evolution?
 CountIbli
Joined: 6/1/2005
Msg: 190
Creation vs Evolution
Posted: 8/24/2005 6:10:00 PM
The God hypothesis isn't a scientific one. It makes no testable predictions. Therefore they'll never be any evidence to support it or prove it wrong. It's as believable as the theory that Cthulhu created the universe with a gigantic fart.

I don't know why you choose to believe the Bible is right about everything except the talking snake (or serpent if you prefer).
 HedonistDrifter
Joined: 7/23/2005
Msg: 193
Creation vs Evolution
Posted: 8/25/2005 12:24:23 PM
My belief's are in line with the entire scientific community, emphasis on the word entire...however I will buy off that God created man "in his own image", provided "God" looks allot like Ringo Star in the movie "Caveman"....hehehe
 CountIbli
Joined: 6/1/2005
Msg: 195
Creation vs Evolution
Posted: 8/25/2005 7:32:23 PM
Before I could prove to you that evolution occurs I need to first define it, because I have a sneaking suspicion that you don't know (we can ignore Darwinism because they're not the same; Darwin knew nothing about genes so his theory is outdated). Evolution is the change in gene (or more precisely, allele) frequencies in a given population over time. Do you know any people with siblings? They are my proof that evolution occurs. You'll note that they each have different physical qualities determined by genes. Things like eye color, hair color, etc. The fact that some people have gene A where other people have gene B and still others have gene C shows that the frequencies of these genes varies over time. That is evolution.
 CountIbli
Joined: 6/1/2005
Msg: 196
Creation vs Evolution
Posted: 8/25/2005 8:05:28 PM
So now let's look at what you call Darwinism. We can date fossils either with relative dates (basically the deeper you dig the further back in time you go, though there are exceptions) or with absolute dates (radiocarbon dating is the most famous but is really only good for about 50,000 years or so, other techniques are used for older dates). When look at human fossils we find them in the record for about 100,000 years. As we start going further back we find fossils that kind of look human but not quite. As we keep going further back they look less and less human. At about 1,000,000 years there's nothing like humans at all. We can keep on going further back and we eventually find that mammals and birds disappear. In their stead we find these funny looking reptiles. They're funny looking because they have bird-like or mammal-like features. Travelling on they disappear and we have regular looking reptiles. But then as we keep going those reptiles start to look kind of like amphibians. Eventually there are no amphibian-like reptiles to be found at all. Go back even further we find these amphibians are getting funny looking too. They're starting to look more and more like fish. Even earlier there are no fish-like amphibians. Then the fish just look like fish. Eventually even the fish and proto-fish disappear.

All of this needs an explanation. Right now there are two favorite theories (well one is just an untestable hypothesis):

1) While the fossil record will always be incomplete, it clearly demonstrates the evolution of new species from old. Man has a common ancestor with apes. All mammals are related. Mammals and birds evolved from reptiles. Reptiles evolved from amphibians. Amphibians evolved from fish. Etc. The fossil record is also supported by biogeography, genetics, and embryology. The dating of fossils can be accomplished with independent means. In some cases we can use a technique called isochron dating which auto-corrects from leaching and depositing of radioactive materials in samples. Speciation has also been directly observed in both nature and controlled labratory environments.

2) God continually causes extinctions and creates brand new species, manipulates the rates of radioactive decays and distorts the amount of radioactive materials in every sample we take, caused hypermutation rates in men so that Y-chromosome analyses would mislead scientists into believing man has existed for more than 6000 years, magically transported all species to their current locations, and gave plants and animals functionless body parts. He did all this in such a way as to make evolution look true. He did this to deceive people to test to see if they'd have the faith to believe a contradictory book rather than the evidence of their own senses and all notions of logic and reason. But don't worry, He's not the author of confusion.
 HedonistDrifter
Joined: 7/23/2005
Msg: 197
Creation vs Evolution
Posted: 8/26/2005 8:31:20 AM
CountIbli & B1R, It all makes perfect sense to me, but I think you will have trouble convincing the true believers, unless you can come up with a system that can be completed in 6 days, (because you need to rest on the 7th)...lol
 HedonistDrifter
Joined: 7/23/2005
Msg: 200
Creation vs Evolution
Posted: 8/26/2005 6:11:52 PM
Mari2010, I believe you are right... Recently Robert Ballard (discoverer of the Titanic) was on a search for a well preserved wooden shipwreck in the Black Sea, seems that the toxic salt content, coupled with extreme depth, makes it the perfect place to preserve wood...During the voyage they discovered evidence of the Mediterranean spilling over its banks violently and flooding the then freshwater lake (now the Black Sea)...Incidentally they found evidence of settlements under water dated to approximately 7,500 years ago...Noah’s flood is only dated back about 4500 years...So scientists conclude the Noah’s flood was probably regional folklore passed down by word of mouth for thousands of years before being recorded...
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