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Show ALL Forums  > Science/philosophy  > IQ is a garbage tool for determining intelligence      Home login  
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 scorpiomover
Joined: 4/19/2007
Msg: 101
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IQ is a garbage tool for determining intelligencePage 5 of 10    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10)
RE msg 124 by niick99:
b) IMO, a high IQ when combined with a high personal sense of social conscience, is negatively correlated with personal financial success, because one "sees" how his personal gains are made at the expense of other (in win-lose situations in life, which alas is much of the case) and opts not to blindly max his/her personal wealth as more narrow minded people do.
So responsible attitudes to financial success are negative? Surely that just shows that many of those who are very financially successful are either not aware of the damage they do to the economy at large, or they don't care, and so the economy is damaged by many people continually, without stop. That could well explain why our economy is in such a mess right now. We don't praise those who treat it well, and we praise those who abuse it.

c) I have always thought that the best schools, be they primary, secondary or uni level, are the ones that admit laggers (students) and educate them well to catch up (become C+ or B- students) or even become A students. The best known schools usually take the best thus the added value they provide is questionable!
I quite agree. It has been well known for years that exceptionally gifted students who aren't challenged by the normal material that meets the abilities of average kids, just get bored, and do no work at all, often leading to them getting very poor results. Other students have dyslexia, or poor communication skills, like Aspergers, which makes them frequently misunderstood as lazy, when they just don't understand how to deal with school on a basic level. Kids who get lots of very high results are often kids from supportive families, who already give them that support. So we are letting down those students who weren't born into very supportive families, just because of the luck of who their parents were.

Also, despite my clear abilities, I didn't do that well in school, until one of my teachers took the trouble to really make sure I made the best of myself, and it really turned my results around. In that subject, I became a triple-A student.
 Irespire
Joined: 7/30/2008
Msg: 102
IQ is a garbage tool for determining intelligence
Posted: 10/22/2008 6:13:23 AM
yeah that was the whole idea
 scorpiomover
Joined: 4/19/2007
Msg: 103
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IQ is a garbage tool for determining intelligence
Posted: 10/23/2008 7:03:37 PM
RE msg 130 by niick99:
We have recently been first hand witnesses of win-lose or even lose-lose economic and other decisions. I am not saying that people make profits at the expense of others and the economy as a whole ON PURPOSE, on the contrary, what I am proposing is that many do not "see" the negative externalities of their own benefits/successes. Success does not have to be at the expense of others, but that type of success takes longer and is harder to achieve. Thus IQ + social conscience = lower "return" on personal effort. That could explain why many high IQ persons are not champions of success and profitability. Just a "theory"! lol
I do think that IQ + social conscience is a lower "return" on your efforts, but not an automatic one. I believe that if someone has the brains to see the cost to society and has the conscience to act on them, then such a person has an ability to make a greater "return". But such a person chooses to make choices that he can live with.

Other people simply don't see the results of their choices as quickly as the person with a higher IQ and a social conscience combined. They do discover the loss and guilt that comes from their choices. But they only discover them a lot later. For some, like with the stockbrokers in the recent crash, it will mean a complete destruction of their livelihood, and for some, suicide has been their choice in the past. There are probably many with a high IQ and a social conscience, who were more responsible in their stock choices, or even chose to stay out of such a career altogether so as not to promote greed, and became accountants or solicitors. They make a lot less money, but they are often happier in the long run.

Einstein said that if he'd known how his discoveries would be used, he'd have given it all up, and become a watchmaker. I know one person who was working for the MoD, earning lucrative money. But almost as soon as he realised that he would be working on weapons that would kill people, he left. He now makes far less money running his own business, and puts in far more time and effort. But he likes himself and can sleep at night. I call that a plus.

However, I think that the reason that such choices are considered a lower "return", is our current view of success. It seems to me that we regard success as primarily financial, but also to be able to get what you want, but with the issue of how you get that success as a secondary consideration at most.

Many of the most famous and successful rap artists have admitted to having a colourful past, which they have left behind. But it is clear that their songs reference that past, and it is doubtful to me if any of those artists would now be successful if they hadn't lived a criminal life, with which to draw from for their songs, and which taught them how to get ahead in the music business. If we did not respect any musicians or artists that would never have been successful if they had not become criminals first, and had chosen to live an honest life, then many of those very successful people would not sell any albums, and would not be successful at all. Yet no-one ever seems to notice that fact.

It seems to me, that modern society would regard the smart guy with no conscience, who makes a killing in the stock market, or who works as a defence contractor, or who practices very questionable ethics in business, and makes billions, and then pulls out and becomes a philanthropist, as being the modern version of a knight in shining armour. It is as though all his misdeeds have been forgiven, even the one of killing the old knight and stealing his armour, that made us respect him in the first place.

It also seems to me that we take a very short-term view. We only look at people as they are right now. We don't look at someone who is struggling to make ends meet, because he knows it will be good for him in the long run, and praise him, but rather we insult him, for being such a failure, when he could easily be happier by spending more now.

I think that success in the eyes of society means very little in real terms, and I am often reminded of Rudyard Kipling's words:
When you can meet with Triumph and Disaster,
and treat those two imposters just the same.
Success means very little at the moment, except to say that you are flavour of the month.
 60to70
Joined: 7/28/2008
Msg: 104
IQ is a garbage tool for determining intelligence
Posted: 10/23/2008 9:55:45 PM
High I.Q., high income, very high income, ah, what can one say? Too many admire this end result...and if they are philanthropists, well then holy smokes are they not ever great!! Success has never meant anything but how many toys you had at the end- in this century and probably every other century. The time you took with your intelligence to amass these safeguards against god forbid material poverty was the time you took away from some really, good true stuff. Anyways many people with high I.Q.'s often check out early as some posts have intimitated. Who wouldn't if they had demonstrable intelligence?
 Twill348
Joined: 12/20/2008
Msg: 105
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IQ is a garbage tool for determining intelligence
Posted: 3/13/2009 3:49:27 PM
"As someone who has scored very high, I could not believe the questions I was seeing. They expect THIS to be a determinant of something so complex and deep? THIS?"

Smart people are always amazed that not smart people can't answer such simple questions.

"An average Joe could score 130+ if they practiced and put their mind to it."

No, they can't. Even if they studied, for a year, they could not. And if they could, a simple re-design of the test would take care of that problem. To study, to get better at the IQ test, and suceed, just shows that one underestimated oneself before.

Almost half the people you meet are below average.

"I love how they've also linked IQ to 'genetics' (which is nonsense), "

No one knows the answer to this yet. To say it is nonsense, is, in itself, nonsense.

People who score high on the IQ test are smarter than people who do not. Life is unfair.
 Twill348
Joined: 12/20/2008
Msg: 106
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IQ is a garbage tool for determining intelligence
Posted: 3/13/2009 4:09:52 PM
"We have recently been first hand witnesses of win-lose or even lose-lose economic and other decisions. I am not saying that people make profits at the expense of others and the economy as a whole ON PURPOSE, on the contrary, what I am proposing is that many do not "see" the negative externalities of their own benefits/successes. Success does not have to be at the expense of others, but that type of success takes longer and is harder to achieve. Thus IQ + social conscience = lower "return" on personal effort. That could explain why many high IQ persons are not champions of success and profitability. Just a "theory"! lol "

The human brain does not mature until the mid-thirties, and the part that matures last is the ability to put oneself in anothers place, and to predict how others will behave in response to ones own actions. Add criminal tendencies, lack of empathy, (which can be caused by any number of genetic and environmental factors) to that, and it's amazing we don't all kill our parents and siblings as a matter of course! :)
 GGarbo
Joined: 10/8/2007
Msg: 107
IQ is a garbage tool for determining intelligence
Posted: 3/13/2009 5:49:25 PM
I think the op made an important point that IQ has a lot to do with your environment.

If anyone has ever studied diversity education you can see what a lack there of there is most of our environments. Diversity researchers and educators have known for years that black and native students have been overrepresented, not just in prisons, but in General Academic programs which puts them off the path to higher education since most Universities will not accept these credits as entry. The known systemic problems, which are being slowly fixed, do damage to their potential.

I know there are studies to prove this but I hadn't heard of the study on IQ. It makes perfect sense with what we know about human development and environment.

The better your environment, the better chance you have at reaching a higher IQ provided that environment coincides with what is being measured. If you entered a social group who did not prioritize education but survival, they may be very smart in a survival test but score lower on the IQ test.


Why is it always less educated people bash highly educated people and trash education in general? Not the other way around.

Credentialism is also a form of harassment used by very unaware and insecure educated people. They promote the importance of a degree because it makes them feel more important. Many people, although qualified and capable, lose out jobs to those who are educated when a degree didn't actually matter to do the job but they just wanted to know their candidate went through the process of getting a degree. This process can still make you an idiot employee. Some people are gifted at learning but suck at applying.

A degree often says a lot about opportunity and environment. There are whole regions where it is uncommon for people to have degrees because fishing is the major industry. There are people who live in more economically challenged areas where a degree was not prioritized over immediate survival needs.

So when you demand a degree for a job that doesn't actually require one, what you are really saying is, I want someone who has had the opportunities to get a degree and is from a society of educated people. You are determining their worth based on factors that mean absolutely nothing.

You are unfairly discriminating against the poor and those who have had barriers to getting a degree. They might be experienced hard workers, but they are denied advances due to the lack of a credential not actually required to do the job.

...it keeps people down who don't want to be there......

Not being able to get even these jobs anymore has made a situation where they have even less opportunity to get a degree or pay for their children's education.

So yes, people are a bit resentful against people with degrees. If we had a better education system and encouraging environment that provided all with the same opportunities for education, maybe they wouldn't be so resentful.

 BullyintheAlley
Joined: 2/28/2009
Msg: 108
IQ is a garbage tool for determining intelligence
Posted: 3/13/2009 7:00:28 PM
Isn't the latest thinking that there are at least a half dozen kinds of intelligence? And the classic IQ test just one, verbal intellectual or two, reasoning and spatial relations or something?

I know athletes who can pick up a sport just by watching someone play, they have a high kinesthetic intelligence, but might be God-awul at math or science.......and vice versa, someone good in the lab might not have the faintest idea how to throw a football pass.

That's explained best but multiple intelligences, not a single number.
 TNFa
Joined: 2/26/2009
Msg: 109
IQ is a garbage tool for determining intelligence
Posted: 3/14/2009 12:39:05 AM

I think the op made an important point that IQ has a lot to do with your environment.

If anyone has ever studied diversity education you can see what a lack there of there is most of our environments. Diversity researchers and educators have known for years that black and native students have been overrepresented, not just in prisons, but in General Academic programs which puts them off the path to higher education since most Universities will not accept these credits as entry. The known systemic problems, which are being slowly fixed, do damage to their potential.

I know there are studies to prove this but I hadn't heard of the study on IQ. It makes perfect sense with what we know about human development and environment.

The better your environment, the better chance you have at reaching a higher IQ provided that environment coincides with what is being measured. If you entered a social group who did not prioritize education but survival, they may be very smart in a survival test but score lower on the IQ test.


Why is it always less educated people bash highly educated people and trash education in general? Not the other way around.

Credentialism is also a form of harassment used by very unaware and insecure educated people. They promote the importance of a degree because it makes them feel more important. Many people, although qualified and capable, lose out jobs to those who are educated when a degree didn't actually matter to do the job but they just wanted to know their candidate went through the process of getting a degree. This process can still make you an idiot employee. Some people are gifted at learning but suck at applying.

A degree often says a lot about opportunity and environment. There are whole regions where it is uncommon for people to have degrees because fishing is the major industry. There are people who live in more economically challenged areas where a degree was not prioritized over immediate survival needs.

So when you demand a degree for a job that doesn't actually require one, what you are really saying is, I want someone who has had the opportunities to get a degree and is from a society of educated people. You are determining their worth based on factors that mean absolutely nothing.

You are unfairly discriminating against the poor and those who have had barriers to getting a degree. They might be experienced hard workers, but they are denied advances due to the lack of a credential not actually required to do the job.

...it keeps people down who don't want to be there......

Not being able to get even these jobs anymore has made a situation where they have even less opportunity to get a degree or pay for their children's education.

So yes, people are a bit resentful against people with degrees. If we had a better education system and encouraging environment that provided all with the same opportunities for education, maybe they wouldn't be so resentful.

For those of you who don't feel like reading, the short version: Sour grapes.
 hamango
Joined: 3/8/2009
Msg: 110
IQ is a garbage tool for determining intelligence
Posted: 3/22/2009 8:04:41 PM
Yeah, considering he died several hundreds of years before they came up with the test, it's astounding. Besides, it was 171.
 Merrylass
Joined: 12/30/2007
Msg: 111
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IQ is a garbage tool for determining intelligence
Posted: 3/24/2009 7:05:03 AM

The way I see it, if one works hard enough, has access to the right resources, is highly motivated and supported and, most importantly, is given a FAIR chance in Life, then anyone can succeed.

It's not about succeeding or not. Most folks would say the world's smartest man isn't a material success. It's about what level of information you are able to grasp, use, and improve upon.


Anyway I fear that the more we look into the Human genome, making wild, grandiose claims, the more I fear that eugenics will once again raise its ugly head.

It's highly unlikely that a single gene is responsible for intelligence. Humans haven't claws or teeth so had to evolve differently to survive - we ended up with brains to think our way out of danger. It's too complex a function to be generated by a single gene or even just a few genes.
 Cerebral 1
Joined: 2/16/2008
Msg: 112
IQ is a garbage tool for determining intelligence
Posted: 11/26/2009 8:13:49 PM
@ okcupid

What I typed in the first quote you re-worded in your own fashion, but I assure you they mean the same. It's just perception. I assumed the reader would understand the correlation, but you explained it instead.

Success DOES NOT have to be at the expense of others. But you assume it's meant success in some socio-materialistic way. What if it meant it in a Buddhist way? Then one success and the other success would be almost mirror opposites, now, wouldn't they.

When I choose to write I TRY to look at things from all angles before putting in my two cents. As I have my own opinions and (According to the Heisenberg uncertainty principle, whereas anything studied invariably changes just by you looking at it which can be anything from a quantum value all the way to the way two people effect the way they interact just by interacting) I often interject my own perception into my answers, no matter how hard I try not to. So, if you were one of the over 1 Billion Buddhists in the world, to answer your question, Yes, I would expect you to sit on the sidelines and meditate as that would be your kharma. And if you're not, then I would expect you to interpret what I typed the way I did, and I would explain the similarities and the differences as I have. Sorry to answer nickzeus09s question but it seemed to fit my mood. Thank you.

 Rug Doctor
Joined: 11/2/2005
Msg: 113
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IQ is a garbage tool for determining intelligence
Posted: 11/27/2009 9:45:56 AM
IQ is a measure of likelihood of success in our society . That is what it is. It's not a test of intelligence.
This can be seen ( accepted ) more easily when checking on the dog psychologists' Canine IQ test. It's more clearly all about "trainability" of the breed or individual.
 JustDukky
Joined: 7/8/2004
Msg: 114
IQ is a garbage tool for determining intelligence
Posted: 11/27/2009 9:56:11 AM

IQ is a measure of likelihood of success in our society . That is what it is. It's not a test of intelligence.
This can be seen ( accepted ) more easily when checking on the dog psychologists' Canine IQ test. It's more clearly all about "trainability" of the breed or individual.

I think there is a flaw in your reasoning. I took the Canine IQ test & flunked, so I'm less trainable than a dog, however, I always wanted to be a garbageman so I could sit high up in a twuck every day, and well, here I am, successful in life and deliriously happy with it, so either a lower IQ is positively correlated with success in life (which I suspect is not your argument), or the argument is a lot of something I see every day.
 Rug Doctor
Joined: 11/2/2005
Msg: 115
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IQ is a garbage tool for determining intelligence
Posted: 11/27/2009 10:04:31 AM


IQ is a measure of likelihood of success in our society . That is what it is. It's not a test of intelligence.
This can be seen ( accepted ) more easily when checking on the dog psychologists' Canine IQ test. It's more clearly all about "trainability" of the breed or individual.



I think there is a flaw in your reasoning. I took the Canine IQ test & flunked, so I'm less trainable than a dog, however, I always wanted to be a garbageman so I could sit high up in a twuck every day, and well, here I am, successful in life and deliriously happy with it, so either a lower IQ is positively correlated with success in life (which I suspect is not your argument), or the argument is a lot of something I see every day.
That's a great reply.

Allow me a less entertaining response. Intelligence is a part of being trainable, no doubt.
Successful life as disposal expert ... I think that being able to stomach it all shows great trainablility...even though the smell would attract a dog, for physiological reasons.....but repel a normal human.

So being trainable, you achieved success, and may now pee on every post.
 JustDukky
Joined: 7/8/2004
Msg: 116
IQ is a garbage tool for determining intelligence
Posted: 11/27/2009 10:12:31 AM
you achieved success, and may now pee on every post.

That's one of the perks of my job!

The less humorous point of my post is that IQ correlates (positively) neither with trainability or with success in life. In point of fact (I haven't seen a good study on the subject, so this is just conjecture) I suspect there IS a correlation in both cases, but that it is negative. There was also the hidden moral, that we should judge success on our own terms, not in terms imposed on us by the erroneous judgement of others. (i.e. What is more valuable, happiness or "intelligence?" - Anybody with even a lick of intelligence already knows the answer to that one.)
 Rug Doctor
Joined: 11/2/2005
Msg: 117
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IQ is a garbage tool for determining intelligence
Posted: 11/27/2009 11:32:27 AM
http://www.spike.com/video/garbageman-caught/2970231


That's one of the perks of my job!
 Rug Doctor
Joined: 11/2/2005
Msg: 118
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IQ is a garbage tool for determining intelligence
Posted: 11/27/2009 11:40:39 AM
Even children of average intelligence (95-105) were found to have relatively similar rates of 'success' when compared to genius children. It's only really when you drop into the 80's that there is a marked difference.

Tends to be rated low where people live in high stress, even societal breakdown regions, areas with fewer available resources and so on, possibly learned hopelessness or helplessness is a player too.
Peoples in China, and India have been rated low and in Sub Saharan Africa have been rated low too.
 JustDukky
Joined: 7/8/2004
Msg: 119
IQ is a garbage tool for determining intelligence
Posted: 11/27/2009 12:07:46 PM
if you have a job that requires repetitious monotonous actions, a double digit IQ would probably work out better, if said person can learn the job required. After all, just look at all the people in the UAW....

Firstly Paul, the guy with the higher IQ is gonna be an EMPLOYEE, working his ass off (in HIS mind anyway) for what is most likely less pay than he's "really" worth, and the "smarter" he is, the more he's gonna resent it, unless he gets a financial (or other) reward probably in excess of what the job is really worth to your company, so you'd wind up with an overqualified, but disgruntled employee unless you were willing to (at some point soon) pay him more than the job is worth to you. Don't you think it would be better judgment to hire the guy with lower expectations if he is capable of doing the job?

On the subject of who likely gets more satisfaction from dull, repetitious jobs that require little intelligence, studies show that the more intelligent guy wins out. Someone with a high IQ generally has a mind better able to disengage mind from physical activity and put it to better use in deeper thoughts or fantasy that serves as a virtual free time to do as he pleases. Those in the normal range generally require too great a portion of their cognitive attention to be able to do that, and as the job IS dull and repetitious, soon tire of the "insult to their intelligence" and tend to quit within a few months. The one whose intelligence is sufficiently below normal that the job totally occupies his attention and may even be found slightly challenging, is probably the best fit of all (from the employer's perspective) for the work. His employee is likely to enjoy the job as much or almost as much as the highly intelligent guy, and will probably work for less and stay a lot longer.

Every employer wants intelligent employees, believing it adds much to the company, but when you think about it, how much do you consult with the assembly line people about say marketing or accounting issues, or your new "mission statement?" Wouldn't it make more sense to simply find people best fit for the job? If so, it appears people in the normal range would be misplaced in the jobs you probably feel they'd be well suited for and you could be overlooking perfect candidates because they aren't "bright enough."
 JustDukky
Joined: 7/8/2004
Msg: 120
IQ is a garbage tool for determining intelligence
Posted: 11/27/2009 12:52:31 PM

Those that do stay and become disgruntled employees are best gotten rid of RIGHT NOW, as they are dangerous, usually to productivity.

The trick is spotting them beforehand by knowing whether or not they are suited for the job.

I have no problem hiring an employe below his capability level, but would keep an eye on them...

That would be wise, because he is by definition an underachiever.

I believe that their personal upbringing and background will account more

There are many factors to consider besides intelligence.

Any employer that doesn't keep a sharp on eye on their employees, and how they all work together deserves what he gets.

I can agree with that so long as it isn't from what might be called an adversarial boss/employee perspective. Remember; happy employees are more productive and contribute more to the company. People are people and not just "human resources." The best managers are more coach than scout and know how to get their team playing their best. They care about the people they hire.
 Rug Doctor
Joined: 11/2/2005
Msg: 121
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IQ is a garbage tool for determining intelligence
Posted: 11/27/2009 11:38:05 PM
If . . . the impression takes root that these tests really measure intelligence, that they constitute a sort of last judgment on the child's capacity, that they reveal "scientifically" his predestined ability, then it would be a thousand times better if all the intelligence testers and all their questionnaires were sunk without warning in the Sargasso Sea."

I heartily agree. Disturbing circumstances bearing down on a child, such as badly married parents, bad diet, bad neighborhood and sibling rivalry for example; although the list is much longer, can affect normal intellectual development and at the same time, intelligence. The child may have the potential, but a snowball's chance in hell of ever realizing that potential.
I look at it this way: NOT UNDERSTANDING what the test result means, but believing the news it appears to give, can be harmful.

If one undersands that it means something statistically, not personally, poor test results are a great caution, a HUGE red flag, that the person is in a group in which members RARELY achieve "success" as defined by OUR previously WASP-type-defined society.

It's like getting a report from the pharmacy blood pressure testing chair.
Very high blood pressure.
Now, you can go straight to the hosptital, you can go straight home to say goodbye to everyone, or you can think about circunstances...perhaps you had just wakened, ran ten blocks, and then checked your blood pressure.
Perhaps you are taking medications...
Testing is good, understanding what the test is testing for , and proper interpretation of results, is most important.

The low scoring individual is in a high risk group for not "succeeding" in society.
 Naissance Man
Joined: 10/25/2009
Msg: 122
IQ is a garbage tool for determining intelligence
Posted: 11/29/2009 3:11:28 AM
Besides IQ test not taking into account culture and socio-economics, what if someone's thoughts are so advanced that the IQ test doesn't pick up on it?

Intelligence is very tricky. For example, idiot savants.

Its interesting that we know so little about the mind, yet feel so adamant that we can predict how the human race thinks as a whole.
 VolcanoBoy
Joined: 12/4/2007
Msg: 123
IQ is a garbage tool for determining intelligence
Posted: 12/1/2009 11:27:52 AM
Someone's mad they scored low in their recent attempt. It looks at your thinking speed, ability to find patterns, manipulate vocabulary, do maths, and general problem solving abilities. No one intelligent is saying they predict success in life because any retard that can swing a bat or throw a ball or wear revealing clothes and lip synch can be successful if they're lucky.

What I love is that with nothing but a handful of words do you state how you think there's no relation between IQ and genetics. And it's more like it is showing blacks have lower living standards or academic teaching standards than others... IQ is not all genetic its like 50/50 and if you aren't raised well you aren't going to score well. That's what happened. ...Duhhrr.....

Just go take the test 15 more times get 110 and feel good and be quiet. Lol.
 flowersof
Joined: 11/27/2009
Msg: 124
IQ is a garbage tool for determining intelligence
Posted: 12/1/2009 1:46:26 PM
Here's the deal.

Every single online IQ test is garbage. Yes.

The real deal, the Wechsler Adult Intelligence Scale administered by real psychologists aren't a joke, but they aren't everything. It's a great way to get a rough estimate of one's baseline intelligence. Is it perfect? No. There are so many types of intelligence, ways to measure them, and ways to not measure them unfortunately. Could you likely be a doctor with a below average IQ score? No. Could you likely overcome most obstacles with an average or above average IQ? Yes. Determination and motivation will get you a lot farther than one might think.
 scorpiomover
Joined: 4/19/2007
Msg: 125
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IQ is a garbage tool for determining intelligence
Posted: 12/1/2009 2:46:23 PM
RE Msg: 164 by garry1949:
I stand by what I said, Paul. Those who are well up on the social ladder will see to it that their children show well on IQ tests and become successes, one way or another. Those who are "raised" by poor, apathetic, possibly philandering parent(s) who may or may not be into substance or alcohol abuse face bad schools, bad teachers, bad classmates, empty fridges, cold decrepit rooms, lack of intellectual stimuli and much more. This doesn't mean such children are totally doomed, but their rows will be much harder to hoe.
That's true, but incomplete. IQ does help with success. But it's not the only factor by far. Developing confidence, learning to take risks, developing good social and networking skills, developing a strong business sense, are all just as important, if not more. In the UK, a lot of the top people in the London Stock Exchange often left school at 16, and often have few qualifications in education, because they don't need to. They've already learned the skills they need to make money, in their school, and at home, without having to go to university. Even in university, lawyers need to be far more careful about things like how the address a judge, and how the address a witness, than academic ability or the ability to recall every case related to the trial they are engaged in.

Really, rich people send their kids to schools that give them lots of ability in ALL abilities of life, IQ, confidence, social skills, sports, the lot. Poor people send their kids to schools they can afford, which often teach them very little about ANY of those abilities.
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