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 _shakti_
Joined: 7/5/2011
Msg: 100
Enlightenment...Page 5 of 6    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6)

I like the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy; the Ultimate answer is 42, whats the question?
I didn't even know that was a show till I just googled, lol..

It makes me think of one of my favorite patients who wrote a book titled 'The Hitchhikers Guide to Planet Olanzapine'. He's giving me an autographed copy :)


Enlightment is really getting to the point where you dont really need to ask any more questions
Honestly, if I thought that were true, I would never want to reach it!


You can only know everything by being outside the system.
My views on spirituality could be termed panentheistic.. I kinda think that our spirit is both within and without the 'system', depending on where you place your focus..

But then, I also think that truth is all wrapped up in paradox
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 101
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History
Enlightenment...
Posted: 7/21/2011 4:40:30 AM
Call me pedestrian, if you like, but for me "Enlightenment" is a RELATIVE term.

It has, in my experience, usually been applied more politically/egotistically than anything else. People who want to think of themselves as smarter or better than others around them, claim to be "enlightened," thus declaring that a magical difference exists between themselves, and those with whom they disagree. That magic difference allows them to declare that they win any and all arguments before they even start.
 sabbycat149
Joined: 2/26/2009
Msg: 102
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History
Enlightenment...
Posted: 7/21/2011 8:37:06 AM
Hi Igor
I had the same response from my brother,
He enjoys his physical life,his wife,kids,job,no desire to any further thought than what we know now of the physical.
I have always had a "feeling" there's more.
I explained that becoming "enlightened" actually brings you to an understanding to how we are all the same,
It is imposable to think of another anyway other than their true self if I want to know my true self
Yes ,everyone is at there own pace and point of their own understanding but that dose not change the fact of who they are.
The basic ego only thinks in terms of better ,smarter .ect......anyone one claiming to be better because they are "enlightened" isn't at all.
OP :)
I see enlightenment as the metaphor,,,,to be lite up
Light has always ref. life
To know enlightenment is to know life.
IMO

 _shakti_
Joined: 7/5/2011
Msg: 103
Enlightenment...
Posted: 7/24/2011 11:31:26 PM
UthenK:
There is that about enlightenment, once you've got it what do you with it.
I guess I view it more as a journey and not so much a destination. But that's part of why I started this thread in the first place, to hear many angles on the same concept.

Igor:
Call me pedestrian, if you like, but for me "Enlightenment" is a RELATIVE term.
Of course it is. The fact that you felt the need to preface your statement with 'for me' is indicative of that.

I'd be curious as to your 'pedestrian' answers to the original questions..

Sabbycat:
becoming "enlightened" actually brings you to an understanding to how we are all the same
Totally agree!

It is imposable to think of another anyway other than their true self if I want to know my true self
I think that is a very profound statement.
 Stray__Cat
Joined: 7/12/2006
Msg: 104
Enlightenment...
Posted: 7/29/2011 7:33:03 PM
"What do you think enlightenment is?"

It is above mental concepts so cannot be described.



"What distinguishes an enlightened person from a non-enlightened person?"

Nothing.
Unless an enlightened being wants to walk on water or something.


"Is it an end in and of itself, or a process/journey?"

It is becoming the wave carrying you instead of riding on the wave.


"What is the purpose of enlightenment.. ?"

none.

You become all.
instead of a tiny part.

tiny parts die and are reborn endlessly.
each a little cork adrift.

When you stop the dream and step off.
You are the whole form instead of the tiny piece.
nothing changes.
you do.
 _shakti_
Joined: 7/5/2011
Msg: 105
Enlightenment...
Posted: 7/29/2011 8:12:51 PM
Stray Cat:
It is above mental concepts so cannot be described.
How very Tao :)

It is becoming the wave carrying you instead of riding on the wave.
I like that, it seems to entail a certain paradox as well.

nothing changes.
you do.
Forgive the Matrix reference, lol.. but this reminds me of when Neo was attempting with all his might to bend that spoon..

Spoon boy: Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead... only try to realize the truth.
Neo: What truth?
Spoon boy: There is no spoon.
Neo: There is no spoon?
Spoon boy: Then you'll see, that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself..
 sabbycat149
Joined: 2/26/2009
Msg: 106
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History
Enlightenment...
Posted: 7/30/2011 2:41:49 PM
IN my experience(and opinion) theres more than logic/reasoning .Logic stagnates the mind.We have many positive things in our world now from thoughts that went beyond the logic of the time when they were invented
Sometimes success comes from faith /belief (go with your gut) and beyond all logic.

I had an idea and took the designs to my Pat. lawyer.He had a panel off Mech.Eng. review it.I got back that within all the Eng knowledge the design would not work and was known not to work.(don't waste your time/money)
The logical/reasonable thing to do would be to listen to years of accumulated Eng. knowledge apposed to my Gr.12 edgimication and 2 yrs in the field and forget the idea completely. I went with faith and belief in my idea and started prototyping
(very illogical Captain)
Short story,,,U.S Patents ,laying new ground work for new designs in the future in the field and a lot of big new toys .
I love my irrational mind ,,, it's magical

 Stray__Cat
Joined: 7/12/2006
Msg: 107
Enlightenment...
Posted: 8/1/2011 5:21:09 PM
Enlightenment is a paradox cus our mind cannot describe or measure it physically.
We are left trying to come close with parables
or lame fortune cookie descriptions.

From the closest I can understand with my single pointed consciousness,
is we loose the single pointed conscious limitation.

We live imprisoned in ourselves.
I cannot know your thoughts or feelings.
Only talk about mine.
Listen to yours.

There is me.
and everything else outside of me.

With enlightenment I'm told there is no duality.
all is me.
Or perhaps..more accurate to say I leave the "me" behind.
and become all. (which could be fun as I have a boring "me")

Be interesting to ask that of an enlightened being.
If you see one walking on water and are too astonished to ask him this.
He will answer anyway cus he shares that same astonishment being one with you.
And therefore will answer a question that thru you he already also knows.

I have been in the presence of an advanced teacher.
I felt very uncomfortable and naked
as there was no separation between my thoughts and his knowing em.
It was as if he had no ego/id at all.
So nothing to separate his one-ness from my very lame singularity.

best I can do on this subject.
I am not enlightened so I am chained to my one point of view same as most mortals.
 sabbycat149
Joined: 2/26/2009
Msg: 108
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History
Enlightenment...
Posted: 8/3/2011 8:57:15 AM
You got it Stray Cat...No ego Id. The ego is great for what it is ment for(preservation of the body,basic animal drives)but as the minds Identification of self when humans became aware, it is limited to only the body.

Before human awareness the ego was like Dos. After awareness it developed into windows 3.1 but depended on Dos
It's like the mind has a dual boot option,We have been taught the first boot (and learned the easiest)Windows 3.1 and everyone has a unique auto exec and config file.(the ego Identification and skills)
The other boot is Linux ,internet hosted .(called many names such as Spirit by Jesus)
The first boot knows(awareness) if you find the second boot it will not be needed anymore except for it's basic function and will prevent you from finding it.
If you come close you will get blue screens and threats of serious system damage.Most back off.
The Comp techs(Masters) try to teach us to access our second boot but we only know 3.1 so it's hard to understand or even describe a second boot Op. system And internet,,,what the ####
Some claim one day the Comp Techs will return and show us or that we don't have to know because the Techs do or that we find out after our Comp. stops working
Some learn with the manuals (teachings) they left.
(IMO)

 sabbycat149
Joined: 2/26/2009
Msg: 109
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History
Enlightenment...
Posted: 8/4/2011 6:41:12 AM
When the second boot is accessed and you upload your information and Id with the online OP.system your info/Id is never lost,even when your comp. stops working.
First boot,all info/Id is lost when comp. stops working
 Anchises
Joined: 7/15/2011
Msg: 110
Enlightenment...
Posted: 8/5/2011 1:05:02 AM
If in thirst you drink water from a cup, you see God in it. Those who are not in love with God will see only their own faces in it.



Remember, the entrance door to the sanctuary is inside you.



God turns you from one feeling to another and teaches you by means of opposites, so that you will have two wings to fly - not one.


We come spinning out of nothingness, scattering stars like dust.



The only lasting beauty is the beauty of the heart.



- RUMI (a Muslim theologin, jurist, philosopher & poet)
 Ravenstar66
Joined: 8/27/2007
Msg: 111
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History
Enlightenment...
Posted: 8/22/2011 5:23:43 PM
Wow.. great thread, and fabulous contributions. Much material for contemplation.

A few years ago I might have posted an incredibly long missive on this subject, but today all I can say about this is that my experience with my search for enlightenment right now is that I am becoming very aware of how much I don't know, and a sense of how deep everything actually is.

Oddly, this bring with it a subtle feeling of awe and joy.
 _shakti_
Joined: 7/5/2011
Msg: 112
Enlightenment...
Posted: 8/22/2011 5:44:37 PM

but today all I can say about this is that my experience with my search for enlightenment right now is that I am becoming very aware of how much I don't know, and a sense of how deep everything actually is.

Oddly, this bring with it a subtle feeling of awe and joy.
Well said and soooo nice to see you!
 Dave_eh
Joined: 10/29/2011
Msg: 113
Enlightenment...
Posted: 11/3/2011 7:00:50 PM
Wow. My opinion on this hasn't changed in three years.

Some good and new contributions though. Awesome.

Hope everybody's doing alright.
 dunrich2
Joined: 1/7/2010
Msg: 114
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History
Enlightenment...
Posted: 11/7/2011 11:27:53 AM

Wow. My opinion on this hasn't changed in three years.

Some good and new contributions though. Awesome.

Hope everybody's doing alright.


Good to see you here buddy.

I admire that your opion hasn`t changed. One of these days, I might find one of my older posts and not be disturbed at what I wrote. But it hasn`t happened yet. lol, oh well!

I think, htis life is all about ascending as an independent spiritual being,,,,,so that we can share in the divine nature.

Its a lot simpler than many make it out to be. It doesnt take, education, learning complicated doctrines or,,,principals,,,,,to ahieve.

Its simply a state of being, where one can place their true self, above the urgings of their ego.
Its what I think Jesus alluded to when he spoke about the first being last,,,and the last, first.
 Stray__Cat
Joined: 7/12/2006
Msg: 115
Enlightenment...
Posted: 11/7/2011 12:01:05 PM
It's sad when our opinions don't change.

Mine do all the time.
Opinions are like insect exoskeletons that our minds crawl out of
as we grow bigger ones.
:-P
 _shakti_
Joined: 7/5/2011
Msg: 116
Enlightenment...
Posted: 11/7/2011 12:09:27 PM
Stray Cat:
Opinions are like insect exoskeletons that our minds crawl out of
as we grow bigger ones.
Love that!
 Dave_eh
Joined: 10/29/2011
Msg: 117
Enlightenment...
Posted: 11/9/2011 6:51:14 PM
Is it sad that my opinion of what enlightenment really is hasn't changed?

To me, it is still beyond description because as soon as the act of describing is taking place, attention is taken away. However, it is still fun to try and to some of us, it is our solemn duty to do so.


What do you think enlightenment is?


Being awake to our true nature, understanding that through cause and effect we are all connected and the ability to act or react without thinking.


What distinguishes an enlightened person from a non-enlightened person?


I don't know but my gut says compassion.


Is it an end in and of itself, or a process/journey?


A process I'd wager. I don't rightly believe in absolute finality. Even when the whole of creation is enlightened, it will be the beginning. Now is always the beginning.


What is the purpose of enlightenment.. ?


To know Ourself.
 troheat21
Joined: 5/28/2007
Msg: 118
Enlightenment...
Posted: 11/9/2011 7:31:32 PM
ok ok i know this is gab for a fab down here feal this the beat rip it up i am jamming it o yea
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 119
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Enlightenment...
Posted: 11/13/2011 2:36:55 PM
Back to the original questions, and to expand on my (somewhat grumpy) old post:





What do you think enlightenment is?


There are two basic definitions at work in the world. One is the one I referred to a ways back, and is applied by someone from the OUTSIDE, to indicate they approve of what another person thinks and/or says. That was the "grumpy" part of what I said before.

The other definition is from the viewpoint of the individual, from within their own sense of the world. I have had a sense of "enlightenment" many times in my life, and I expect to have many more. Most commonly, I feel it when I find a "big picture" way to look at what had previously seemed to be unrelated ideas or things, and discover how they relate and interact in a way that makes sense. The dual definition of "enlightened" can apply, both in that I "see" more clearly (as in having acquired more LIGHT), and alternately that I feel that I have had burdens of confusion lifted from me (thus making my existence burdens feel "lighter).




What distinguishes an enlightened person from a non-enlightened person?

Again, the two versions apply:

Those who use "enlightened" as a way to categorize others as to be approved of, or discouraged, it is defined by those applying the label, in whatever capricious or manipulative, or power-managing manner they choose to use. I often see people use "enlightened" to indicate that someone they like, has become as dogmatic and self-blinded as they have about something. Those who believe in the power of "love," are in this way identical to those who believe in the strength of "hate."
Needless to say ( I hope), I do not myself think that anyone who chooses blindness, qualifies as "enlightened," no matter what form of blindness they have chosen to adopt.

The other version, I would say that what differentiates the enlightened person from the unenlightened one, can only be seen within a prescribed subject area. And the "enlightened" one, is the one who has a firm, complete grasp of the subject matter, and can apply their insights to new circumstances within that subject area, while the "unenlightened" person, is still confused, and/or still making choices based on rote memorization of rule sets.




Is it an end in and of itself, or a process/journey?


This depends upon the subject you are talking about when you ask about enlightenment. Unless you are talking about the ultimate insight that I HOPE to have when I reach the end of my life, then enlightenment is always more like a mile marker, than a complete journey in and of itself.

I felt tremendously "enlightened" my first time, when I was about two months old, and I realized that I could crawl up and sit on a step in my parents house, and from that lofty vantage point see ALL THE WAY ACROSS THE ROOM. It was such an exciting and mind-opening realization, that I still remember to well to this day, almost 60 years later.




What is the purpose of enlightenment.. ?


I believe THIS question is VERY dependent upon the person who "controls" what the particular form of enlightenment they are talking about, actually IS.

For my own part, I would not say that enlightenment really has a purpose, rather it IS an experience. It can be a very visceral one, at times. I benefit tremendously from it, but to say it has a PURPOSE, would require that I also believe that there is a defined PATH that my life is all about. It certainly performs a very useful function in my life, increasing my ability to enjoy things, even sometimes including unpleasant things that happen in my life.
Thus I would say enlightenment is more of a RESULT than a thing to be sought, such as in the way that a diploma is.
 Inicia
Joined: 12/21/2007
Msg: 120
Enlightenment...
Posted: 12/1/2011 12:31:06 PM
For me I consider enlightenment to be a person who seeks their own path...and tolerates others~ uses discernment in situations and involvements to harm no one~ however, when others express their full range(from aberrant to exceeding the norm) of potential I believe an enlightened person accepts these qualities as the expressed reflection of the enlightened self's inner characteristics and societal creation of humanity...I do not claim to meet my criteria for enlightenment...
 Inicia
Joined: 12/21/2007
Msg: 121
Enlightenment...
Posted: 12/22/2011 7:41:44 PM
enlightenment for me is satisfaction in my walk where I arrived.
I am here.. and happy to live today... forever and ever exactly where I am.. thank you....
take flight poet.. fly on....your words enlighten no one. are pious and arrogant.. but thank you anyway.. home is where the heart is...planted firmly... spit out the lukes the luggeess. dont swallow the luggeeesss.. muahhhhh... oNly swallow PASSION>>> PERIOD>>>> enlightment. everything else soar away... WE walk our selves home when we are good and ready... I will not be shepherded unto a demise..... being led to your home is not enlightenment it is a shephard leads you out to pasture not home. Home one finds on their own.....Choose your own...poison...do you need a shepherd or light.. flic of my bic kind sir... or match or maybe a spark or something to lead us to connect to our homes and stop searching outside of ourselves/// find shelter in my won beliefs.. Hey maybe you'd have more fun watching tv from the sky...
 mystiknight
Joined: 1/9/2012
Msg: 122
Enlightenment...
Posted: 1/22/2012 2:04:15 PM
To Be Spiritual:

"So much is misunderstood about the nature of spirit, as spirit is not a science, it is not linear. Spirit is a connectivity, a space of merging with eternity where linear machinations fold and implode upon themselves, and things progress in non-linear fashion where you could go from the middle straight to an end point, or from the end point directly to the beginning in a fraction of the time as a linear progression of 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6. It is called "the short path" and it is called the path of "intimacy"; and spirit is intimacy.

To be spiritual is to merge in alignment with your intimate self and dedicate that intimacy within the vitality that is you, that song of truth, and dedicate it to an emerging realignment and merging; an emergence of a gestalt to reunite with a Higher Collective of you. This is a reunion of oneness progressing back into the singular "all". That is spirit, that is spirituality.

Spirituality is two lovers running on the beach back into an immaculate re-embrace. Spirituality cannot be used as a weapon, spirituality cannot be used to coerce, spirituality that is coercion is not spiritual. For spirituality is intimacy and love, and oppression is not love and is not intimate.

It is like two lovers and when one lover is with another both must remain vulnerable and expand into a greater sum of the parts, a gestalt phenomenon back into a higher collective of oneness. Together they coalesce and form something that is greater than the sum of their individual selves, and that is spirituality, that is intimacy, that is reunion, that is the river of eternity flowing forth to usher in the gradual expansion of "many" back into "all"."
 lacalli
Joined: 1/12/2012
Msg: 123
Enlightenment...
Posted: 2/26/2012 3:33:45 PM
I think true enlightenment is not something we achieve here in this lifetime but rather after as a result of lessons learned. It is something to strive for. However I do agree to some extent with this post as well:

I feel it when I find a "big picture" way to look at what had previously seemed to be unrelated ideas or things, and discover how they relate and interact in a way that makes sense. The dual definition of "enlightened" can apply, both in that I "see" more clearly (as in having acquired more LIGHT), and alternately that I feel that I have had burdens of confusion lifted from me (thus making my existence burdens feel "lighter).


 hotmalerunner5555
Joined: 1/2/2016
Msg: 124
Enlightenment...
Posted: 3/30/2016 11:51:24 PM
Thus far ih8tefrogstoo, you are the only one who has a glimpse of beyond enlightenment which is Transcendence and beyond, far beyond. I am amazed at the Humanist prospective, which is no different, has not changed since the beginning of mankind. It is and always will be the cause of the cause of as in the twentieth century, killed more in wars then all previous wars since the beginning of mankind, by itself suggests a problem. Something is wrong.

Given all the enlightened ones through the centuries, and from this blog or whatever it is, with all you guys doing what you are doing, if effective, wouldn't peace have already have already occurred, as opposed just the opposite which has and will, with our present path, continue.

This suggest that wonderful feeling, the word in itself suggest, light,,,,, ah, enlightenment, now I am laughing at myself, t having explained this well enough why it is not more then just a nice feeling. The book will be done shortly, actually was going to go into a short description of it and short is impossible as almost all we hold as truths are not only questioned but dismissed totally. Far beyond enlightenment there exist something for the moment lets call listening. thank you, , Doug
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