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 independentthinker
Joined: 1/26/2008
Msg: 161
Prenuptial - maintaining physique - is it reasonable?Page 3 of 16    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16)
I'm not absolutely sure, but I think this is the dumbest thing I have ever heard of. Not that you want this in your prenuptial agreement, but that your fiance would actually be interested in marrying a man who is so blatantly clueless. Who determines 'reasonable'? Any lawyer will tell you that is an undefined term, so it's a waste of time to use it. Who determines health? Are you saying that when she gets to be 50 and develops hypertension that it will be grounds for divorce? And are you willing to agree to the same stipulations? So when you have a stroke from your high pressured work environment, she can divorce you and leave you with nothing, so you die penniless in a county funded home somewhere? You never heard that these marriages last longer, because it's not true. Long lasting marriages are based on emotional love, not physical attraction. So yes, I think this is completely unreasonable. And I'm betting if you try to use this, you won't have to worry about getting married.
 spitfire6844
Joined: 6/30/2007
Msg: 164
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Prenuptial - maintaining physique - is it reasonable?
Posted: 9/10/2008 7:07:20 AM

Some people in the post mentioned that the op was only talking about weight gain caused by laziness and not a medical problem or childbirth. What's the difference?


The OP was specifically referring to spouses who "let themselves go" during the marriage. That concern was the motivation for his pre-nup idea. No reasonable person would think that a genuine medical problem which induces weight-gain qualifies as letting yourself go. The OP made the distinction and so would most guys.
 HarleyKat~
Joined: 3/30/2008
Msg: 167
Prenuptial - maintaining physique - is it reasonable?
Posted: 9/10/2008 7:36:36 AM
Got bored after reading four pages...but the main thing that pops into my thoughts (after the pee dried from the hilarious laughter!) is from what Printer2 wrote:


I had a hairdresser that once told me she works out in part because love is one thing but her husband fell in love with a person with a body worth looking at. She had three kids and looked fine the last time I saw her. Mind you he never let himself go either.


This is the difference. Hairdresser lady CHOOSES to stay in shape out of DESIRE to maintain the love. Everyone knows relationships/marriages take work...to keep them strong. Staying fit and healthy is one of those tasks. But would you rather have someone staying in shape to ensure her financial stability and to get what she thinks she deserves....or would you rather have someone staying as such because she loves you and wants to be desireable to you??

So...no...I think a prenup with such clauses is ridiculous.
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 176
Prenuptial - maintaining physique - is it reasonable?
Posted: 9/11/2008 7:53:57 AM

That is exactly what I was trying to say in my last post, but no one got it. Thank you for your response. Fat is Fat whether it is acquired thru laziness or pregnancy. And the poster said that he wasn't attracted to fat so therefore couldn't differentiate between the two. Would he find his pregnant wife disgusting too, I wonder?

I totally get that...which is why:

Impotence, baldness, and other things men deem uncontrollable are still unattractive to women...so if we're not into it does it matter how it happens? If we said we were ok with you not getting it up in situations you can't control, but if it happens on purpose we're not putting up with it? Where does the line fall?

Therefore although men are saying it only applies to the people who gain weight based on controllable issues, they are still saying a woman who gains weight is unattractive and will cause lack of sex drive (and it's been mentioned enough to be thought of as an issue across the board).
 Closing Shop
Joined: 7/24/2008
Msg: 177
Prenuptial - maintaining physique - is it reasonable?
Posted: 9/11/2008 7:58:53 AM
I don't get why people have such a big problem with prenups. A prenup only comes into play when the marriage is over. If the marriage lasts until death, then the prenup is irrelevant. Yeah, yeah, everybody enters marriage thinking theirs will last forever but about 50% of them end up being wrong. Frankly, I think anybody who doesn't grasp the logic behind a prenup is somebody to be concerned about. As long as it sounds fair to BOTH OF US, I'd have no problem with one.

As for the appearance clauses, I can't say I totally disagree with those either, as long as they exclude changes/disfigurements that are beyond a person's reasonable control. And sorry, but how many people that are incapable of losing their 50 pound weight gain aren't in hospital beds?

I think two people should make an earnest effort to evolve in a mutually satisfying way but some people don't hold up their end of the bargain. And I can't help but wonder how many people might let their weight go during a marriage but if a divorce was imminent and the prenup stated that if they were at a certain weight at the time of the divorce he/she would get an extra one million dollars, would THAT be enough of an incentive for the person to lose the weight?
 SpaceSquirrel
Joined: 4/22/2006
Msg: 178
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Prenuptial - maintaining physique - is it reasonable?
Posted: 9/11/2008 8:17:48 AM
I would think marriages that include a prenup along these lines would make marriages last SHORTER generally.

Think about it. The only thing this or any other "grounds for divorce without having to give him/her half of everything" do is give the wealthy spouse a way to end the marriage with less financial penalty. Therefore, if the poor spouse gains a bunch of weight and the wealthy spouse doesn't like it, with this clause the marriage will likely end sooner. Without this clause the marriage they are more likely to try to keep it together for financial reasons.

I doubt it is likely to have as big an impact on the "poor spouse". To the extent it extends a marriage it will likely involve a fair bit of unhappiness.

That said, in my opinion anything one spouse thinks is important and the other is willing to accept is fair grounds for inclusion in a prenuptial agreement. I'm not sure how often such things are struck down by courts and/or over-ridden in divorce settlements though. Definitely consult a lawyer with divorce experience if drafting a prenup.

Personally, I don't think I would even consider asking for such a clause to be included. If a rich woman wanted to marry me, but only with such a clause, I'm not sure what I would do ... would have to think about, and would depend a lot on her other qualities ;).
 spitfire6844
Joined: 6/30/2007
Msg: 179
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Prenuptial - maintaining physique - is it reasonable?
Posted: 9/11/2008 8:37:16 AM

Fat is fat and many men have CLEARLY said they had NO control over their disgust of fat and hence could NOT be attracted to their wives once they gained weight.


The reason for the weight-gain is definitely a factor as to whether the average guy would want to stay with his larger wife. I can attest to it myself. One of my exes had to go on Prednisone for awhile and the drug caused her to get bloated. It didn't affect my affection for her at all, because there was a valid, medical reason for her weight-gain. It wasn't due to laziness. As soon as my girlfriend came off the Prednisone, she lost the weight and was back to herself.

Again, some posters are making excuses. The fact is that most guys make a clear distinction between weight-gain due to uncontrollable factors and weight-gain due to carelessness or laziness. The OP specifically said that he was addressing the plight of spouses who "let themselves go". That wouldn't include valid medical reasons such as pregnancies or prescribed drugs.
 spitfire6844
Joined: 6/30/2007
Msg: 182
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Prenuptial - maintaining physique - is it reasonable?
Posted: 9/11/2008 12:21:20 PM

Then he says that if a woman gets into an accident and becomes disfigured most men leave the marriage! He is trying to point out that if a woman has any part of her physical beauty married men will leave, so that is why he thinks there should be a pre-nup. The OP doesn't care the reason behind them getting fat, he is saying that men will leave the marriage regardless of the reason!


The OP may have been overgeneralizing a little in his 2nd post here. The original post is more germane to how most guys look at the subject. I know a lot of guys (including myself) who are more likely to want to stay and provide support if a spouse's overweight were due to illness or accident. However, if the spouse lets herself go through inactivity and poor diet (and that is the primary reason most people gain weight), then it makes guys want to look elsewhere. The pre-nup idea is somewhat impractical; but there's no question that letting oneself deteriorate for no good reason makes the marriage more difficult to stay in.
 spitfire6844
Joined: 6/30/2007
Msg: 184
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Prenuptial - maintaining physique - is it reasonable?
Posted: 9/11/2008 12:47:07 PM
I don't care about Gapeman or his prior threads. Just taking his first post at face value, it's definitely the case that guys make distinctions as to why a spouse or girlfriend is gaining weight. Most guys look at physique changes caused by illness or trauma very differently than those caused by unwillingness to maintain fitness. No one here should let other threads taint the conversation on this one.

Both partners in a marriage should maintain themselves as much as is humanly possible. While the prenup idea is impractical and hard to enforce, I wouldn't blame anyone for considering it in order to lessen the odds that the person they are marrying will turn into a different creature through bad habits. It's understandable.
 lucilou
Joined: 3/18/2006
Msg: 189
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Prenuptial - maintaining physique - is it reasonable?
Posted: 9/11/2008 6:58:19 PM
Come think of it??? Maybe one should, to keep in line and not neglect ones health lol
 spitfire6844
Joined: 6/30/2007
Msg: 201
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Prenuptial - maintaining physique - is it reasonable?
Posted: 9/13/2008 8:24:29 PM

but if you can now visually imagine the faces of Dana and Christopher Reeve you will feel something that no prenuptial or piece of paper can buy .....


Are you really going to compare the situation of Christopher Reeve, with his brutal equestrian accident, to that of some fat slob eating twinkies on the couch and gaining weight? LOL.

The OP, and every guy on this thread, were talking about unwillingness to lose weight, not illness or accident.
 verygreeneyez
Joined: 3/15/2006
Msg: 203
Prenuptial - maintaining physique - is it reasonable?
Posted: 9/13/2008 8:41:45 PM
~OT~ Well, as I stated some thousands of posts ago, I think it's a great idea. I think any solid/healthy/loving relationship can withstand the brutal truth in writing. Contracts aren't a bad thing as long as they are entered into with forethought and honesty. If written in favor of both parties ~ I'd be more than willing to sign about physical appearance, intimacy, lack thereof, who puts the clean dishes away and anything else that could possibly arise and need clarified prior to or later down the road during something long term/co-habitible. BUT, seems that if we find Mr./Ms. Right For Me, it's not likely there would really need to be a discussion about the future to that degree ~ but you never know. Have the "what if I get fat" talk about the same time as the "exclusivity" and "if you develop ED and find yourself in front of the tv with the remote more than 2 hours a week" talk and all should be just fine. I seem to take much better care of myself when involved, guess it's the proverbial, "OH ~ he might see me naked" theory. But we are all different.

I do know that "letting ones-self go" can happen because my exhusband told me long after his divorce from wife #1: "The minute the ring went on her finger, the air-hose went to her azz." LOL (I didn't say it, I'm just repeating it!!) (And yes, I've seen a 6 pack turn into a keg on the couch ~ not pretty!!!)
 spitfire6844
Joined: 6/30/2007
Msg: 210
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Prenuptial - maintaining physique - is it reasonable?
Posted: 9/13/2008 9:41:52 PM

No, the OP stated that sic men would leave their wives if they were disfigured etc.


Just going on the OP's initial post on this thread (and not subsequent, provocative posts), he was talking about women who "let themselves go".




and did you know that male gorrillas unlike the male human can maintain a sustained and satisfying erection till the day they die.


The difference between a guy with ED and some obese person eating twinkies on the couch is that the guy with ED is most likely willing to do whatever it takes (Viagra, Cialis, penile implant) to improve the situation. The fatty sitting on the couch just doesn't care, and hence the motivation to find ways to lessen the odds of encountering spousal apathy in physique maintenance.
 spitfire6844
Joined: 6/30/2007
Msg: 212
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Prenuptial - maintaining physique - is it reasonable?
Posted: 9/13/2008 10:10:16 PM

women are the leaders in maintaining and being informed regarding personal health


So....that would mean that most women would have no problem with a premarital agreement (even if just verbal) where both partners commit to maintaining fitness, right? Everyone should be in agreement on that point, then.
 brownie360
Joined: 8/7/2008
Msg: 225
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Prenuptial - maintaining physique - is it reasonable?
Posted: 9/14/2008 3:36:40 AM
you should NEVER get married!!!! what if you get CANCER OF THE TESTICLES AND OR PROSTATE? what if you get fat? become a DIABETIC? or get in an ACCIDENT? no one stays the same...changes happen through illness and aging...marring is DEFINATELY not for you....
 spitfire6844
Joined: 6/30/2007
Msg: 237
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Prenuptial - maintaining physique - is it reasonable?
Posted: 9/14/2008 9:15:32 AM

whether that extra fat was acquired through laziness and/or overeating, OR illness/injury, how would the penis react any differently at the sight of one type of fat over the other....I mean if the penis is repulsed by the sight of fat ( fat is fat no?)...what difference does it make (to the penis) HOW that fat got there in the first place???


It makes a huge difference. When my ex had to take Prednisone for a few weeks and got bloated, we both knew it wasn't her fault and was temporary. She was still active and would be able to shed the weight when she was no longer on the medication. My ex wasn't a lazy slob who didn't give a damn. She was a beautiful woman who had to take meds for a brief period of time; so knowing that, it was still easy to get excited about her. If a guy knows that his SO is just eating herself to death (rather than enduring a medical condition), it's easy to understand why he wouldn't be excited anymore because of her permanent sloth.
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 238
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Prenuptial - maintaining physique - is it reasonable?
Posted: 9/14/2008 9:22:33 AM

But really, which DOES come first? His neglect or her weight gain?

My guess Capitano... ennui comes first.

No finger pointing or blame... people get discontented and unwilling to put the same efforts into each other. Whether that is one of them or both it doesn't much matter in my observation. They each attribute their boredom or discontent or neglect to the other... begin to feed on that rather than creating feel-goods... and the cycle builds.

When people break up, one of the very first things they often do is to "take back their life" and get in shape. There is nothing that says they cannot do this from within a relationship.

pfft... half the time much of ones complaints about the other is really an internal discontent that doesn't go away once you've ditched the rotten ex. Things would work out better in my view if we were quicker to work on our own discontent rather than looking for things or people outside ourselves to blame it on.
 verygreeneyez
Joined: 3/15/2006
Msg: 243
Prenuptial - maintaining physique - is it reasonable?
Posted: 9/14/2008 12:29:15 PM
~OT~ Whatever happened to people that remain health/weight conscious for their own self? In all seriousness, I don't need a man in my life or the lack-thereof to realize that I feel better, am happier, and probably am a much more likable person when I feel good about me. If someone lets themself go because they aren't getting kudos at home from their spouse ~ that's some serious lack of self-worth and it's not a diet they need, it's a therapist or a divorce. Likewise, if a spouse (regardless of gender) doesn't incorporate/instigate making their partner feel loved, wanted, desired, attractive, etc., they don't deserve the time it takes to pain/ache/cry over. Common sense ~ remain healthy/happy because you choose to. We react to actions ~ HOW one chooses to react is individual choice. I'm only miserable if I allow it. If "he" isn't assisting in my happiness/well-being ~ he'll find himself wondering where the hell his dinner is and why his laundry isn't done because maid service stops when I sense I'm no longer being treated properly. (OH, and that includes me taking the cat when I leaving.)
 verygreeneyez
Joined: 3/15/2006
Msg: 259
Prenuptial - maintaining physique - is it reasonable?
Posted: 9/14/2008 8:40:35 PM

I think ther are some complex feelings involved, when you marry someone who is ht/wt proportionate, and then she "chooses" to put on weight, knowing it will interfere with sexual attraction. It's the "opposite" of feeling those strong emotions of closeness. It's really a message that the spouse and marriage aren't important enough for her (him) to make an effort. It's a message that "you're stuck now, and what I feel like doing is what matters most to me".

Once again, this is NOT gender specific. Men let themselves go just as often as women. This argument is not only ridiculous ~ it's just a stealthy little technique some use for spreading more of their brand of misogamy. And for the record, women are just as "stuck" as men if the marriage is based upon her weight/physical appearance. If sexual attraction is merely based upon a number on a scale and her ability to remain frozen in time ~ I suppose it's fair to assume you're willing to get out the tape measure and "measure up" (so to speak) since we all know, it really is the size that counts. (Keep in mind, we gals can lose weight ~ I'm not so sure there is a... ummmm .... fix for whole "size" thing.)
 arwen52
Joined: 3/13/2008
Msg: 263
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Prenuptial - maintaining physique - is it reasonable?
Posted: 9/15/2008 8:53:06 AM
Men let themselves go, too. I think the thing to look for is someone whose values and habits are compatible with your own. My former boyfriend was, and is, physically active and, while he is not vain, really doesn't want to get fat and keeps a neat appearance. If he notices himself gaining weight, he cuts back on what he's eating and starts getting more active again. He's moderate in his eating habits. I have no doubt he'll maintain a healthy weight. I'm the same way. I doubt either one of us will become significantly overweight.

As for a prenup - boy, I don't know about that. What would be the point? Divorce is easy to get, you don't really have to have "reasons" these days except "irreconcilable differences." Certainly that could be an "irreconcilable difference." People change in other ways, too. My ex husband was a good lover before we got married and became very selfish in bed and bad tempered afterwards. If I had foreseen this, maybe I could have made a prenuptual agreements about him pleasing me in bed? But you don't have to "prove" anything any more. Why, then, put something like that in writing?

I think the thing to do is to discuss carefully and thoroughly the things that are important to you before marriage and choose wisely and carefully. Realize things are going to happen that no one can anticipate.

By the way, I don't think it's superficial to not want to be with someone who is seriously overweight. Maintaining a healthy weight comes from sensible eating habits, staying active, and having an attitude that places a priority on health and a neat appearance. Some things that others mentioned are beyond our control. Getting fat is something we have some control over. I don't care about someone's height, color of their eyes, or other things that they can't control. I look for someone who is lively and interesting, someone who can at least keep up with me and even better if they challenge me to keep up with them. I love being active and eating pretty healthy. I'm not fanatical about it, either. I also love ice cream and chocolate and making tiramisu - I'm far from a purist, I'm just moderate in my habits. These are all very important to me. It's a way of life. I look for someone whose approach to life is compatible with my own.

I think that's really the key - look for someone whose habits are similar to your own. And if, over time, life happens and they fall away from those habits, offer to help them get back into them. Help make sure there are plenty of good vegetables, fruits, and lean sources of protein around to eat. Suggest going dancing or on a bike ride or to the gym or hiking instead of vegging out on the sofa or going to a movie. Nagging never helps. Having a partner to bike, walk, or work out with is a lot more fun than going it alone and it's a lot easier to maintain healthy eating habits when we are surrounded by others with healthy eating habits.

 spitfire6844
Joined: 6/30/2007
Msg: 267
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Prenuptial - maintaining physique - is it reasonable?
Posted: 9/15/2008 9:31:14 AM
How hard is it for a man and a woman to pledge to maintain their health and fitness to the best of their ability, and then DO it? There are a lot of excuses on this thread, and a lot of worst-case scenarios are being brought up. It doesn't require a pre-nup for a couple to maintain their health; but both partners have to be serious about it, rather than being serious about the loopholes and the excuses.

The partner who maintains his or her health can be expected to get rid of a partner who is unwilling (we're not talking about illness or accident) to maintain fitness. If you're unwilling to stay healthy, you should get dropped.
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 268
Prenuptial - maintaining physique - is it reasonable?
Posted: 9/15/2008 9:56:01 AM
^^^I agree that two people who want to stay healthy for themselves and each other ultimately can do it WAY more easily if they're both into it, so it shouldn't be a hard promise to keep - barring anything out of their control, of course.

All you have to do is exercise together and/or motivate each other.
Prenuptial - maintaining physique - is it reasonable?
Posted: 9/15/2008 4:10:08 PM
Shrinkage bums me out ... My prenup would say that his income level must increase by at LEAST 5% per year for me to stay turned on!!!


Ah, that's old news and has been a given amongst women for millenia.
How else do you expect me to pay for my younger lovers???
 bitahunni
Joined: 6/16/2008
Msg: 279
Prenuptial - maintaining physique - is it reasonable?
Posted: 9/15/2008 4:18:56 PM

Perhaps she could have a clause whereby he's not allowed to behave like a jerk.

Wondering how long he'd be able to last.


I like your response rune3.

Bita
Prenuptial - maintaining physique - is it reasonable?
Posted: 9/15/2008 4:19:14 PM
One particularly disgusting woman even suggested that such men just "Grow a Penis" NICE!
Can he please grow it out of his forehead? Thanks ...
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