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Show ALL Forums  > British Columbia  > Assisted suicide - the right to die with dignity      Home login  
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 username74
Joined: 6/20/2008
Msg: 51
Assisted suicide - the right to die with dignityPage 3 of 5    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5)
anyone can sign a DNR...strong heart weak heart......
I plan to have it tatoo-ed on my chest at the age of 70
chances of a full recovery of a traumatic event is less likey after 70... and I want quality not quanity of life.
 XHTML
Joined: 6/5/2008
Msg: 52
Assisted suicide - the right to die with dignity
Posted: 11/14/2008 8:24:22 PM

anyone can sign a DNR...strong heart weak heart......
I plan to have it tatoo-ed on my chest at the age of 70


As I've said before in the tattoo thread, I take the events of that evening long ago to be a sign to me that I not get a tattoo, and I don't have one.

However since starting this thread I've been contemplating exactly the same thing; getting a DNR order tattooed on my chest sometime in the future.
 b2inus2
Joined: 10/27/2008
Msg: 53
Assisted suicide - the right to die with dignity
Posted: 11/17/2008 3:17:20 AM
Tyeee wrote:
"There are those who do not believe in an after life. I do not. I don't think it particularly relevant. Even among those that believe in an after life, for some their condition has become so horrible, thanks to a progressive disease, their life is already hell. They are prepared to face the consequences of their death, even it is is a little earlier than the inevitable."

^^^^OP, I have difficulty believing that I am a conincidence. That my existence (or yours) is a random act. I believe that we came from somewhere and after this experience here on earth we "die" to be "born" again into another. And I am not talking about religion.

The relevance is in the connection of everything to everything.
Just like we cannot separate the pulse from the heart, or the light from the sun, or the facet from the diamond, we cannot separate ourselves from our Source.
The moment we perceive ourselves as being alone, separate from Source is when suffering begins. But this "separation" is only our perception, a mirage, not a reality. How do I know this?
Because of experience. As a practitioner I have seen and participated in several cases where there have been spontaneous healings. However it takes a ready consciousness, a willingness to LET GO of certain things.

Now, I am not a "healer". I would not even dream of calling myself such thing... none of us are. It is the active force of Truth that heals, when we "get out of the way" and stop interfering with thoughts and feelings of doubt, fear, resentment, etc.

This is very deep stuff. Simple but difficult to grasp at first because we are so enmeshed and bombarded constantly with thoughts of fear and scarcity, that we are all very cofused, brainwashed, in a state of Massive Hypnosis.... All we have to do is listen to the news and everyone else around us who complains about everything and anything to feel how thick this mesh is.

I wish I could share more. This is so beautiful and effective. So reliable yet so simple a child "gets it". In fact that is who I learned the most important aspects of this from, and with whom I had the most positive results! Children "get it"!

I see people with dis-ease but I don't believe in disease or contagion. In spite of what our senses (eyes, ears, etc.) and the doctors tell us. We can transcend all this! I have done it, and continue to do it.
I do believe that GRATITUDE is the universal healer that will illumine our consciousness to the point that all of our fear, all suffering will simply vanish. We are the product of our thinking and ideas.

Then, and only then the concept of assisted suicide will become irrelevant, redundant.
For it is not the belief in an afterlife that gets us off the hook, but the simple "knowing" without a doubt that the only thing that exists is GOOD/GRATITUDE.

Blessings!
Y.
 XHTML
Joined: 6/5/2008
Msg: 54
Assisted suicide - the right to die with dignity
Posted: 12/14/2008 10:12:58 AM
Craig Eweret of the UK "checked out" and his family will not be prosecuted.
In fact his ending was televised.

From http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/11/world/europe/11suicide.html?ref=europe



Broadcast of an Assisted Suicide Intensifies a Contentious Debate in Britain

By SARAH LYALL
Published: December 11, 2008
LONDON — Almost completely incapacitated by motor neuron disease, 59-year-old Craig Ewert looked at an interviewer and laid out his options, as he saw them.


The New Old Age: End-of-Life Choices (December 11, 2008)
“If I go through with it, I have death,” Mr. Ewert said. “If I don’t go through with it, my choice is essentially to suffer and to inflict suffering on my family, and then die.”

He chose the quick way. On Wednesday night, Britons could watch Mr. Ewert’s death on television, in a film showing how he traveled to a clinic in Zurich in 2006 and took a fatal dose of barbiturates. Broadcast on Sky Television, the film, “Right to Die?” is said to be the first broadcast on British television of the moment of death in a voluntary euthanasia case.

It has thrown a new bomb into an already contentious debate. It is illegal in Britain to “aid, abet, counsel or procure” suicide. But while the law is clear, its application is murky. Mr. Ewert’s wife, Mary, was not prosecuted, despite the fact that she broke the law by, among other things, helping him travel to the clinic.

By coincidence, Britain’s director of public prosecutions announced on Tuesday that he would not file charges against a couple from Worcester, England, who in September took their severelyparalyzed 23-year-old son to the same Swiss clinic, Dignitas, so that he could kill himself.

Nor, said the prosecutor, Keir Starmer, would he prosecute a family friend who helped organize the trip.

In a statement, Mr. Starmer acknowledged that while there was sufficient evidence to prosecute the parents, Mark and Julie James, it would not be “in the public interest” to do so.

The Jameses’ son, Daniel, was an avid rugby player who was studying construction engineering at Loughborough University. He became paralyzed from the chest down, with no hand or finger movement, after being injured while training with his team in 2007. He had tried to kill himself three times previously, and each time had failed.

He then convinced a succession of doctors that he wanted nothing more than to die and that he could not do it on his own. “Not a day has gone by without hoping it will be my last,” he wrote in a letter to Dignitas. His parents begged him to reconsider, up until the end. But when he would not change his mind, they said afterward, they resolved to support him.

About 100 Britons have committed suicide at Dignitas in the last decade or so, said Jo Cartwright, a spokeswoman for Dignity in Dying, a lobbying group. Those cases have often provoked police investigations in Britain but have never ended in prosecutions, she said.

Meanwhile, the authorities periodically prosecute people who have assisted in suicides in Britain. They are rarely sent to jail, Ms. Cartwright said, but face many months of distress while waiting to stand trial.

“The law isn’t working,” she said. “People are being forced to go abroad to die because they have no other options.”

Only a handful of places, including Oregon, Washington State, Switzerland and the Netherlands, allow assisted suicide, and only according to stringent criteria. Britain’s law against it is currently being tested by Debbie Purdy, who has multiple sclerosis and who is seeking assurances that if her husband travels to Dignitas to help her kill herself, he will not be prosecuted on his return. She lost the case this year but has appealed the ruling.

Parliament has been reluctant to debate the issue. But Prime Minister Gordon Brown said Wednesday that he opposed legislation that would allow assisted suicide.

“I believe it’s necessary to ensure that there’s never a case in the country where a sick or elderly person feels under pressure to agree to an assisted death, or somehow feels it’s the expected thing to do,” he said.

Mary Ewert, Mr. Ewert’s wife, said this week that she was not sorry that her husband’s suicide had been broadcast.

“For Craig, my husband, allowing the cameras to film his last moments in Zurich was about facing the end honestly,” she wrote in The Independent, a British newspaper. “He was keen to have it shown because when death is hidden and private, people don’t face their fears about it.”

In the film, Mr. Ewert comes across both as severely disabled and absolutely determined that he is doing the right thing. His final moments are almost unbearably poignant. Lying on a bed at the Dignitas center, he signs a consent form with the help of his wife. In his labored voice, he says, “I love you, sweetheart, so much.”

She responds, “Have a safe journey, and see you sometime.”

Using his teeth, Mr. Ewert presses the button that will turn off his ventilator. He drinks a fatal mixture of barbiturates. And then, as a piece of music he has selected — Beethoven’s Ninth Symphony — plays in his room and his wife gently rubs his feet, his life begins to ebb away.


Hopefully Canaidian law makers will begin to see the sense in the near future.
 Phuqd
Joined: 3/23/2008
Msg: 55
Assisted suicide - the right to die with dignity
Posted: 12/14/2008 11:54:12 AM
Recently as well in Canada, a man who assisted his uncle in committing suicide was found to be not guilty on the charges that were brought against him.
It does not set a precedence for future cases exactly, as there are many details unique to this case, but it at least has the discussion going again.
If suffering from a terminal illness that severely affects quality of life, does one have the personal right to choose to live or die.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/montreal/story/2008/12/12/mtl-assistedsuicide1212.html?ref=rss
 Xavery
Joined: 4/22/2007
Msg: 56
Assisted suicide - the right to die with dignity
Posted: 3/6/2009 6:38:57 PM
Washington State is the second American state to legalize assisted suicide. I am not sure if this good or bad. I have a feeling in order to be granted the right to end your life, you need to be in very ill.

I don't think anyone decides against suicide does so because they are worried about breaking the law. However, if a person is really ill, they may need help ending their life.

I think we will see more and more states and provinces legalize assisted suicide.

Again, I am not sure if it is good or bad. All I know is that I would never want to be so ill that I would be considering this as an option.

Thoughts?

(I don't usually search for threads when I write a thread based on a current event. There is an online pole today on a radio's station website asking: Would you be in support of assisted suicide in Canada? On the other hand, I totally forgot about this thread and could have posted this as an update her, which I have now done.)
 Wild Sweet and Cool
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 57
Assisted suicide - the right to die with dignity
Posted: 3/6/2009 7:33:08 PM
We put pets down when they suffer but don't show human beings the same mercy. i made a pact with my ex that if one of us ends up lying there like mr potato head drooling and helpless and no brain activity the other has to kill them. i'd probably be the only one with the jam to actually do it though. hmmmmmm....
 Xavery
Joined: 4/22/2007
Msg: 58
Assisted suicide - the right to die with dignity
Posted: 3/6/2009 7:55:47 PM
^Maybe, but it kind of takes a certain level of courage to stand by and watch others suffer. Actual, I think people rationalize their suffering.

I think we put down too many pets. I guess the fear with assisted suicide is that we would start putting down everyone and their dog.
 massapeel
Joined: 12/9/2005
Msg: 59
Assisted suicide - the right to die with dignity
Posted: 3/8/2009 11:10:53 AM
Just show up to an event, people rationalize their suffering. Assisted suicide= the right to die. I heard of a tribal saying, o whata goo fi yum. It is sad to watch others suffer.
Pets are people too. People must aim with dignity.Dont jump, we need to see you around.
 mrchicken
Joined: 5/16/2008
Msg: 60
Assisted suicide - the right to die with dignity
Posted: 3/8/2009 11:51:37 AM
Humans do not hold dominion over thier own lives thats right.
The right to die is not ours, and never was; ain't that a kick in the head eh?
 Entzauberung
Joined: 2/12/2009
Msg: 61
Assisted suicide - the right to die with dignity
Posted: 3/10/2009 10:15:25 AM

Washington State is the second American state to legalize assisted suicide.


I consider this a positive change in attitude. Perhaps it may influence Canada's thinking too

While I hope I never have need to consider this exit strategy, it would be comforting to know it is there should I ever need it.

I think eventually, though it make take centuries, assisted suicide will be accepted in most societies.
 Xavery
Joined: 4/22/2007
Msg: 62
Assisted suicide - the right to die with dignity
Posted: 3/10/2009 6:50:02 PM
^ I agree. I do not think it will take centuries for it be be legalized in North America though. I think perhaps a couple decades - if that.

I also agree that while I would not want to use such an exit strategy, there is some comfort in knowing that there is one. I suppose most people have thought: I would not want to live if X, Y or Z happened to me. For many of us, you could say that we are only in the world conditionally.
 Halokitty™
Joined: 5/29/2008
Msg: 63
Assisted suicide - the right to die with dignity
Posted: 3/10/2009 7:48:12 PM
What many don't know due to lack of experience, is to what extent we can go to keep people alive. Long gone are the days of simply a respirator and some good sedatives and now are the times of ventilators, medications, invasive surgeries, etc. etc.

You wouldn't let a dog suffer the way we let some people suffer on account of prolonging life. I'm all for prolonging life but there comes a time when you have to ask yourself: which is better, quality of life or quantity of years?

If someone is in significant pain, is clear of mental faculties, and understands that death is final - and the necessary means of keeping them alive are unacceptable, then who the hell are we to say to them: No, sorry. I don't agree with this therefore, you can suffer.

Bullshit.

A friend of mine who recently married a man from Washington state and my mother got in to a heated debate over this right-to-die issue; my mother was on the friend's side saying it was going to make it possible for people with mental health issues able to go to the doctor and get the drug to kill themselves. So, I did a little digging - found the whole .PDF file on the bill - or whatever it's called and read every single word of it. It basically says that someone in intractible pain and suffering from a medical condition or injury has the option of dying with dignity. It is not including people with mental health disorders in the mix.

My mother has made her wishes clear - and while they may be incredibly difficult for me to make when the time comes, I will honor them. She does not want to be kept alive if there's no hope and her quality of life is nil. We have that option to discontinue "life support" and turn to palliative and comfort measures. This 'right to die' initiative gives people who are not as far gone as that, the option of opting out; deciding that they do not want to end up in a situation where they will be on life support, on a ventilator, in a drug-induced coma - etc.

There's a wonderful documentary entitled "The Suicide Tourist" that I think everyone should watch. It is heart breaking, touching, and sheds light on this subject; reaching far beyond the naysayers who simply want to shake their finger and tsk tsk about potential abuses. (It's mentioned briefly in a previous post on here by XHTML; post #54)

If your family member was looking up from the hospital bed, riddled with pain and pleading with you "let me die.. help me to die", you have a heart of stone if you don't wish something could be done to end their suffering in a humane manner.

I wouldn't wish prolonged life in extenuating circumstances on even my worst enemy. Who wants to live knowing that there's no hope for recovery? Knowing that you're only going to get worse and worse? That your family will have to sit by, helpless, as you deteriorate further? Who wants to put that on their family? I don't. As much as I'm terrified of dying - if push came to shove, I'd be willing to end it to not only stop my suffering, but stop the prolongation of my loved ones'.

I firmly agree with right to die, die with dignity, assisted suicide, etc so long as rigid criteria are upheld.
 Entzauberung
Joined: 2/12/2009
Msg: 64
Assisted suicide - the right to die with dignity
Posted: 3/13/2009 3:28:47 PM
Thanks Halokitty


There's a wonderful documentary entitled "The Suicide Tourist" that I think everyone should watch.


I learned it was produced by CTV, aired November 2007.
Neither the local video rental outlet or the public library have this video.
I searched the CTV website and couldn't find an online version of the documentary.

Hopefully it will air again, and I'll notice and record it.
 Halokitty™
Joined: 5/29/2008
Msg: 65
Assisted suicide - the right to die with dignity
Posted: 3/13/2009 9:08:57 PM
^ Yea, from what I heard on The Hour was that he's trying to get distribution to go through. Here's the blog related to this:

http://thesuicidetourist.com/blog/
 mrchicken
Joined: 5/16/2008
Msg: 66
Assisted suicide - the right to die with dignity
Posted: 3/13/2009 10:31:18 PM
Halo, I only need to know one thing, and I might be able to die satisfied.
If necessary, would you be willing to nurish me as in "The Grapes of Wrath"?
 Entzauberung
Joined: 2/12/2009
Msg: 67
Assisted suicide - the right to die with dignity
Posted: 11/5/2009 9:30:35 AM


Euthanasia advocacy group holds "exit kit" workshop
Updated: Wed Nov. 04 2009 1819

Euthanasia advocacy group Exit International held it's first Canadian workshop Wednesday morning, teaching Vancouverites who are considering suicide how to do it safely without legally implicating family members and loved ones.

At noon, a group comprised largely of senior citizens gathered at the Unitarian Church on West 49th Avenue to learn where to obtain life-ending drugs, and how to test their effectiveness using "exit kits."

The organization's founder, Dr. Philip Nitschke, says he's instructed roughly 4,000 people in workshops in New Zealand, Australia and the U.K.

"What they want to know is what they can take, which is a simple drink, which will allow them to reliably go to sleep and die," Nitschke said.

Nitschke argues that informing seniors about how to safely take their own lives actually increases their lifespan.

"People think this is a paradox," Nitschke said. "What we find is that when elderly people have access to this drug, they stop worrying. And people that are not worrying are not so desperate."

Though such drugs are no longer available in Canada or the United States, Nitschke says they can still be found overseas in Mexico, Peru and Thailand for about $50.

But while suicide is legal in Canada, assisting a loved one to take their own life is a crime that can land residents years in prison.

With that in mind, Nitschke urged attendees to plan ahead and spare their families and friends the threat of "savage penalties" under Canadian law.

"Don't leave it to the point where you're so sick you have to ask your wife to go to Tijuana. Go down there yourself," he said. "She could be looking at a decade in a Canadian prison."
The workshop was to be held at the Vancouver Public Library, until the library board grew concerned about liability issues relating to the workshop's content.

The Unitarian Church of Vancouver, despite having no official position on voluntary euthanasia, offered to host the workshop instead.

More information on safety and drug availability can be found at the Exit International website.

http://www.ctvbc.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20091104/bc_euthanasian_group_091104/20091104/?hub=BritishColumbiaHome


Exit International website ==> http://www.exitinternational.net/

Yesterday Global TV covered the story of the Vancouver workshop. They also had comments from a woman from a "pro-life" group that opposes assisted suicide. I didn't catch her exact words but in essence she said how wrong it was to kill the elderly, the sick and frail, and instead we should be trying to improve their lives. It was clear to me she just doesn't "get it".

She is totally oblivious to the fact that there are people whose health has already deteriorated so they no longer have any quality of life and wish to end it, and many people now of sound mind and body, but recognize that in the future they may be in such a condition without appreciable quality of life, and will choose an honourable and dignified exit.

A woman who was at the workshop said she wouldn't want to be a burden on society, so came to learn about assisted suicide.
 Entzauberung
Joined: 2/12/2009
Msg: 68
Assisted suicide - the right to die with dignity
Posted: 11/15/2009 10:20:06 PM
Did anyone catch tonight's episode of "Three Rivers" on CBS?

The central story was a man suffering from advanced Amyotrophic Lateral Sclerosis (aka A.L.S. and Lou Gehrig's Disease) who has an accident, which has him end up in Three Rivers, a transplant hospital.

His injury required surgery, one that he was unlikely to survive and was on life support. He could no longer breathe on his own.

The man expressed his desire to have life support stopped, so he could donate his organs. A surgeon fought this. The man's adult daughter, (who had full authority over his life, due to him signing a living will) fought this too, selfishly.

The man explained to the doctor if he was kept alive in his deteriorating condition he would die angry. However if his wishes were granted now many others would be helped and so he could die with dignity and beat the disease one last time.

Eventually the doctor saw his point of view, helped the daughter see it too and his wish was granted.

Yes, it was a fictional TV plot, but could be so real, and certainly gives food for thought on this topic.

A.L.S. has touched my family and this story moved me
 rockondon
Joined: 2/21/2007
Msg: 69
view profile
History
Assisted suicide - the right to die with dignity
Posted: 11/16/2009 2:16:26 PM
The last episode of House touched on this issue too.
At one time I felt that health care workers should try to save everybody. More and more I realize how barbaric that is in some cases - I am often horrified at the long, slow, tortuous agony that some patients endure - their bodies kept alive by chemicals and machines which reduces the human experience to little more than inflicting pain and removing dignity.
 mcalgary
Joined: 11/10/2009
Msg: 70
view profile
History
Assisted suicide - the right to die with dignity
Posted: 11/29/2009 1:32:36 AM
The problem with legalizing this is that it opens a pandora's box. As with Same sex marriage laws have made it hard to prosecute polygamy, allowing assisted suicide makes too many other things open. If the law was very specific and outlined exactly what ailments would qualify and at what point, then I am all for it but if it only says non curable diseases I am not.
 TheAngelGabriel
Joined: 4/27/2008
Msg: 71
view profile
History
Assisted suicide - the right to die with dignity
Posted: 12/2/2009 9:40:28 PM
Society wants to control every instance of our lives right down to our very existence. I believe that we should all be given the right to choose life or death at ANY point during our existence. People will argue that suicide is wrong but who are people to make that decision for me? They weren't there when I was born, or when I had to suffer, so why is there decision when I get to go?

I am in favour of assisted suicide and although many doctors won't admit it, so are they.
 Gourmand123
Joined: 10/20/2009
Msg: 72
Assisted suicide - the right to die with dignity
Posted: 12/2/2009 9:45:20 PM

The problem with legalizing this is that it opens a pandora's box

That is what I heard on the news the other night. I did not hear that the medical community was against it at all. What I heard was that it is completely a legal issue. There would have to be numerous new laws put in place to deal with the change. They didn't specify...just that it was legal hoopla..
 mcalgary
Joined: 11/10/2009
Msg: 73
view profile
History
Assisted suicide - the right to die with dignity
Posted: 12/4/2009 11:39:52 PM
One problem with all this comes up with a situation where the medical costs or other financial matters are adding up and people either start to feel an obligation to there families to reduce costs or are even pressured or talked into suicide. Don't tell me this wouldn't happen. It definantly would. How do you prevent it is the question. You must realize that many young woman are pressured into an abortion. I personally know 2 friends of mine when I was 19 who were pressured (one by her parents and the other by the family medical clinic). And assisted suicide is very much like abortion. This post has nothing to do with abortion, I am only using it as a similar example. I am totally pro-choice so please don't try and twist it.
 TheAngelGabriel
Joined: 4/27/2008
Msg: 74
view profile
History
Assisted suicide - the right to die with dignity
Posted: 12/5/2009 9:23:05 PM
Good point mcalgary, perhaps there would need to be some criteria or process in place to avoid this from happening.
 Walts
Joined: 5/7/2005
Msg: 75
view profile
History
Assisted suicide - the right to die with dignity
Posted: 12/6/2009 8:35:02 AM
As soon as the medical community decided to start "extending" lives with new and improved ways,,,they started phucking with the natural circle of life. Therefore,,,if the medical profession can "extend" life because of their discoveries,,,would not the other choice be for those that want,,,,, end OUR life when WE decide????

Personally, I have a distaste for the "extension of life" just because "we can". Most of the time,,,,philosphicaly speaking,,,,,"it is not suppose to be". We have been putting a "value" on life,,,,or what some perceive to be as "life", that gives some the belief that they can continually tell people how to live,,,and what is good or not so good for them. I know I don't think I would enjoy waking up and looking at a suitcase of pills that I would have to take during the day,,,,just to get thru it,,,,let alone laying in a bed everyday with tubes and other items protuding from parts of my body that I didn't know I had,,,,just so that I could "live". Not really my definition of "living".


Society wants to control every instance of our lives right down to our very existence. I believe that we should all be given the right to choose life or death at ANY point during our existence. People will argue that suicide is wrong but who are people to make that decision for me? They weren't there when I was born, or when I had to suffer, so why is there decision when I get to go?


Humerous in a wierd sorta way, coming from someone that is trying to get others to "help" those that he(or society) believes "needs" our "help",,,,no????? Question is,,,when should "we" step in,,,,and "who" gets to decide this,when and if this time arrives????? The other question here,,,and that other topic,,, is,,,,,what "help" is required and needed,,,,and when should we be letting things just "be"??????


I am totally pro-choice

If this is true for anyone,,,then at no point should you question "assisted suicide". If we give women the choice,,,,we should be giving all HUMANS the same choice when it comes to their OWN lives,,,,no????? Doesn't matter the reasons for an abortion theoreticaly,,,,,so theoreticaly,,,,the reasons for request of assisted suicide shouldn't matter,,,,,theoreticaly????

Personally,,,,I don't really care who makes up what laws concerning this. When my time comes,,,,,, I will go. And I can promise,,,yep promise,,,,,it will not be lying in a bed,,,unless of course there is a somebody under/beside/over me at that time.
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