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 rockondon
Joined: 2/21/2007
Msg: 76
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Assisted suicide - the right to die with dignityPage 4 of 5    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5)

We do not have the right
to choose when to end our life.
God as the Creator chose to give earthly life, and only He has the
right to take it back at His chosen time.
It is after reading crap like this that the merits of suicide are the most apparent.

So He chooses does He? Today's life expectancy is around 80yrs old, a century ago it was about 50yrs old, and a millenia ago it was about 30yrs old. How coincidental that God 'chooses' to take lives later and later as scientific achievement advances.

In a health care setting, the result of this kind of thinking are people who are typically unaware that prolonging life can prolong suffering, people who demand a natural death for their mom (as though sustaining her on life support is 'natural') while mom lingers on in confusion, in fear, in indignity, and in horrible pain - all thanks to the fact that as her downward spiral makes her too confused to make her own decisions and the ones who decide for her care more about some ancient book filled with dogma than they care about mom herself.

Life is precious but I still feel that people should have the right to die with dignity and on their own terms.
 Walts
Joined: 5/7/2005
Msg: 78
Assisted suicide - the right to die with dignity
Posted: 3/10/2010 4:31:27 AM

We do not have the right
to choose when to end our life.


Yet,,,,we do extend it. Does that "fit" in God's plan????? If he has a plan,,,the question from me is then why can people use medical reasons/practises to extend,,,,yet look down upon how we can so call "shorten" life ???????

Why put the "fear of God" into a choice that some could use to emiminate pain and suffering???? Why, oh why????
 rockondon
Joined: 2/21/2007
Msg: 79
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Assisted suicide - the right to die with dignity
Posted: 3/10/2010 7:47:48 AM

And calling my opinion 'crap'
You've been giving opinions? Where? All I see from you is statements. If it was an opinion it would be qualified with things like "I believe that..." "I think that..." or "in my opinion..." When you present your opinions as though they are facts, that's 'crap.' (in my opinion )

When one does not have faith, then there is no peaceful welcoming
warmth of a greater love. Or understanding.
Therein lies the sorrow of truly dying alone.
Do you have evidence to support this statement? No? - surprise surprise. It can go back to the orifice from which it came, then.

Not everyone wants the 'welcoming warmth' of the celestial thug who wreaks death and destruction throughout the Old Testament. Considering the people I've met who feel certain they are going to heaven, it makes hell look like a much better place.

Regardless of one's beliefs in the afterlife, I would find far more comfort knowing that a lived a good life and if there is more to existence after death - wonderful - if not, I will be content knowing that I enjoyed life to its fullest.
 Snotsure
Joined: 9/14/2009
Msg: 83
Assisted suicide - the right to die with dignity
Posted: 3/11/2010 5:25:18 AM
We can kill ourselves with fatty food, unprotected sex, smoking, alcohol, drugs, daredevil activities.... so the right to take ones life by suicide is just the same. YOUR CHOICE.
 rockondon
Joined: 2/21/2007
Msg: 85
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Assisted suicide - the right to die with dignity
Posted: 3/12/2010 12:08:00 PM
I told my gf that I don't want to be stuck in a vegetative state dependent on some machine...
...so she took my laptop away.
 452
Joined: 11/1/2009
Msg: 87
Assisted suicide - the right to die with dignity
Posted: 11/28/2010 9:34:05 AM
I think if someone wants to die it is their right.How dare anyone tell another person that they have to endure horrible suffering just so they can feel better about themselves.People who have suffered no more then a flu or cold in their lives have no freaking idea just how horrible it is to be ill,truly ill,not some minor thing.
 TallDarkandHuh
Joined: 4/28/2009
Msg: 88
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Assisted suicide - the right to die with dignity
Posted: 11/28/2010 10:55:55 PM
... and illness takes many forms.. although many people don't understand or accept it...

To some sadness can be more debilitating than any physical illness
as it can manifest itself as a physical pain.

and that is hard to bear too.






 womaninblack
Joined: 11/9/2010
Msg: 89
Assisted suicide - the right to die with dignity
Posted: 11/29/2010 8:01:40 PM
"So I told my kids I did not want to live my last days hooked to a machine and a bunch of bottles with liquids ... They unplugged my computer and poured my wine down the drain!¨.

There are as many "opinions" as there are people on this subject, and btw this IS a forum, so opinions are ok, no?
What if there was an actual GOD, and pain and suffering where His way of getting our attention, to cause us to grow and rely more on Him?
Really, I despise dogma, but have we not seen many times how when "all else fails" we turn go God? We go on happily living our lives when we have enough money, health, etc. completely forgetting "God", until something nasty happens and then we either blame Him or we desperately plead and bargain. (Then we do it all over again)

I vote that the answer is with Him. My experience so far has been that whenever I rely on Creator if I cannot figure things out, He always helps, and I am stronger and wiser for it. This case, this topic is included. There is no greater dignity than the one given to me when He is called to the scene. He brings clarity, strength and peace ... not suffering.
I will be here, each day is a gift, until He calls me back, relying on Him as my source rather than on the medical system.

Works for me!
 452
Joined: 11/1/2009
Msg: 90
Assisted suicide - the right to die with dignity
Posted: 11/30/2010 7:57:17 AM

What if there was an actual GOD,


So we are supposed to endure horrid suffering just in case there might be some white guy with a long white beard sitting on a throne in heaven who thinks it's a hoot to see us go through awful long drawn out deaths?

I don't believe in God or an afterlife and in case I am wrong,and I truly hope I am,I can't see God wanting us to go through a long drawn out painful deaths just for him to get his jollies off.You have never been truly sick,that is obvious,so don't pretend like you know how awful it is.If death is the only way to escape yet more pain and suffering then that is up to the person to decide not some person who believes in a God with who the only way we can get on his good side is to suffer horribly.
 womaninblack
Joined: 11/9/2010
Msg: 91
Assisted suicide - the right to die with dignity
Posted: 11/30/2010 9:03:01 AM
Ray of moonlight, if I conceived Him/Her to be anything you've described I'd be an atheist too, a bitter one.

Clearly you are not responding to what I wrote but rather someone else's words and their dogma.
Re-read what I said: "He brings clarity strength and peace... not suffering".
That is from my personal experience with Him.

Find Him, get to know Him, stay close and watch your bitterness and pain disappear.
 452
Joined: 11/1/2009
Msg: 92
Assisted suicide - the right to die with dignity
Posted: 11/30/2010 11:35:53 AM

"He brings clarity strength and peace... not suffering".

Tell that to someone dying of stage four terminal cancer.There is a misconception that doctors with all their drugs can take away all the pain and discomfort.Not even close! They are suffering no matter what they believe as far as God goes.There are so many other wasting diseases out there that nothing much can be done for but to suffer horribly through.Death at that point becomes the only option to escape the ravages of illness.

I hope God exist and an afterlife but I don't believe it because I believe it is just a comfort that humans made up to battle the horror and realization that someday we will all simply blink out of existence and be no more.

When and how to end our lives should be up to each of us.It is a personal and a very hard decision. Governments and busybodies should have no say in the matter.
 Walts
Joined: 5/7/2005
Msg: 93
Assisted suicide - the right to die with dignity
Posted: 11/30/2010 3:13:08 PM

What if there was an actual GOD, and pain and suffering where His way of getting our attention, to cause us to grow and rely more on Him?


Ahhh,,,the basic failure(when talking or preaching to those that like to think) of those recruiting new "followers". If there is a "God", I would think he/she/it would consider themselves a "leader". "Leaders" do NOT use "fear" as a tactic to get people to listen or act. In today's world we call them "bullies".

Clarity,strength and peace are within. With some people a "God",a belief, is required to bring these things out. In others,,,,not so much, because they have known forever that it is there,,,using it in times when required. It takes a strong person to stand and face, without the "need" for a hand to hold, and maybe,,,,just maybe those that face the decision of taking their own lives in these situations are these types of people.
 womaninblack
Joined: 11/9/2010
Msg: 94
Assisted suicide - the right to die with dignity
Posted: 11/30/2010 10:34:10 PM
Walts, you raise very good points. Including the one on extending life with medical treatments, so why not shorten life too?

I'll be the first one to admit I don't have all the answers. And I've always had this intense curiosity about "God", so I did a lot of church hopping and searching within me, right from the time I was a young girl.

As I read the words "follow" and "followers" in your post I had an uncomfortable feeling in my gut. It reminded me of all the "spiritual violence" I witnessed in most organized religions. What you called fear and bullying is clearly there and that is why I highly stressed to my my kids all of their lives to never to be sheep, to never be followers, and to think for themselves.

That's why I never listen to other people and it annoys me when even in these forums people go on and on repeating what other people say, the news, books, the media... without even thinking or questioning it themselves! Without experimenting, trying something new!
That's why I go to God for my answers when I need them.

People cannot convert people. People choose. Confused people make weird choices... but we all make the best choices we can with what we have at the time.

I agree with you Walts that we have these things, clarity strength and peace, inside of us.
But when we are distracted by fear we lose our focus, and we forget. We panic.

I see nothing wrong with going to Source. To me it is not a sign of weakness.
I feel no need to be a warrior and do everything by myself, be so tough!
We are not made that way. We are made to need each other in a healthy way.
To be interdependent, stay connected, touch, be affectionate...

In fact I'd willing to bet my front teeth that it is precisely that: The feeling of being alone, abandoned, disconnected even betrayed that causes all of our suffering, even in the end.

I choose to rely on Creator because out of everyone around me He is the only one who is happy and adequate enough to help. People... we are like the blind leading the blind.
What I do now works for me, and very well. It keeps me open and supple and yes, very strong!
The kind of help God offers is the one that causes one to move to action and not become passive... have guts and walk tall and unafraid.
I firmly believe that it takes more strength to be willing to be humble and admit one's need for a helping hand than to go on feeding the ego pretending to be tough.

Perhaps the kind of person I talk about would never find himself in a position where he has to ever be so desperate that he would want to end his life.

¿Get the paradox?
 452
Joined: 11/1/2009
Msg: 95
Assisted suicide - the right to die with dignity
Posted: 12/6/2010 9:45:13 AM

That's why I never listen to other people and it annoys me when even in these forums people go on and on repeating what other people say, the news, books, the media

My beliefs are my beliefs.Just because you don't happen to like or agree with my beliefs does not mean you should belittle them as me parroting the medias belief.Oh what am I talking about your a christian of course you belittle.
 womaninblack
Joined: 11/9/2010
Msg: 96
Assisted suicide - the right to die with dignity
Posted: 12/6/2010 12:37:19 PM
My intention was to never make it personal r.o.m. and least of all belittle anyone, just to share what has worked well for me over the years. There are no rules in the forums about agreeing but mostly about mutual respect.
Just think, if we all thought exactly the same way there would be no forums really!
Christian? Whatever gave you that idea! Assumptions never go well.
 Walts
Joined: 5/7/2005
Msg: 97
Assisted suicide - the right to die with dignity
Posted: 12/6/2010 6:14:56 PM

Christian? Whatever gave you that idea!


Don't ya know that non-believers ALL believe that anybody that shouts to the world that they "they believe",,,,they MUST be Christians?????

I use to find this ignorant and arrogant attitude a lot south of us, but now finding it more and more up here,,,while PC is gaining popularity. If you believe in "God",,,,you MUST believe in Christmas, Christ, Christianity,etc. You can tell that they don't read or do much research,,,,or even discover much for themselves. (speaking of repeating crap)

Tis a shame,,,,but not really, if ya think about.

I did "get" what you were saying womaninblack in Msg 99,,,thus the reason of no reply afterwards,,,,but this last post I had to say sumttin.(you know me )
 HIV_STRAIGHT_GUY
Joined: 12/12/2011
Msg: 98
Assisted suicide - the right to die with dignity
Posted: 1/7/2012 7:12:12 PM

How do you feel about the legal right to die by assisted suicide for yourself, or for a loved one?

WOW!!!??? DEEP QUESTION!!! I think in 'general' that it should be an option. But I also must ask who actually ' desires ' death!? The people that are asking for such a service, are they actually asking for death or just to be relieved of pain and possible suffering that they may be inflicting upon loved ones!? What is there motivation!? I have seen people actually die ( my grandmother, for one) that was holding my hand as she passed ... I never saw one moment of undesire (even a word!?) in her eyes ... kinda scary as I had to pry her hand from mine!? I have seen others die too. I have also seen animals die too taking their last breaths ... still with the desire to live ... YOU COULD SEE IT AND FEEL IT IN THEIR EYES and SOULS ! So yes I think it should be an option but I think it is something that should not be devised or decided upon out of emotion but rather rational thinking. As for people that say they would like that option well, maybe your mind will change when you are faced with that dilemna. As for me ... if I have nobody, I still have my one friend .44 Dan Wesson ... that's my take!
 calebkerr
Joined: 2/15/2013
Msg: 99
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Assisted suicide - the right to die with dignity
Posted: 3/13/2013 10:06:38 AM
i belive at any point in are life we should have the oppertunity to end it. if your are depressed and you have been for a long time, you have taken pills gone to therpy, and made peace with god no body has the right to stop you from making the pain stop, at for older peole with dieses if they are able to make decisions with certentiey, then its there choise as well.
 HaloKitty
Joined: 2/1/2011
Msg: 100
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Assisted suicide - the right to die with dignity
Posted: 3/13/2013 6:05:44 PM
I disagree with giving mentally ill patients the opportunity to suicide. At what point do you say that therapy (CBT, ECT, pharmaco, etc.) hasn't worked? What if someone doesn't want to try ECT, believing that it won't help them, should they be allowed to suicide? These people are ill and yes, sometimes, in rare cases, their disorders are resistant to treatment - but there's a key word in there: resistant. Someone with amytrophic lateral sclerosis (ALS) is not 'resistant to treatment'; there is no treatment. It's final and it only gets worse as the disease progresses. Bipolar I, II, personality disorders, depression, schizophrenia, Alzheimer dementia, etc. etc. can be managed and people can come back into their 'right minds.' Someone that is in the depths of a major depressive episode does not, in my opinion, have the faculties to agree to assisted suicide when if they disease was under better control they may be horribly AGAINST suicide from a moral or religious point of view.

That's the main issue, for me, with saying that mentally ill patients should be given assisted suicide. These people are not within their right minds, they are not able to make judgment calls like that whereas a patient with stage V kidney failure who is on dialysis 3x a week, has had a failed transplant, maybe has had polyomavirus making subsequent transplants not advisable, who is looking at dying eventually from either cardiac arrest (best case scenario) or systemic shock, etc. is in their right mind to say "ok, let's end it now. Enough of this B.S."

People with intractable, end-of-life diseases (excluding psychiatric diseases) should be allowed the option of physician-assisted suicide. It's the only humane thing, in my opinion. I wouldn't want to watch my parents suffer if they didn't want to continue on living. What a horrible, helpless, feeling.
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