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 AUTHOR
 ~Eve~
Joined: 10/3/2008
Msg: 52
Dredging up old hurts during argumentsPage 4 of 5    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5)
Mr. Levi says....

I think it's good to forgive, but don't forget!

My process is similar to his:
1) Take a few hours or days, if needed, no more than a week, then FORGIVE
2) If the offense was severe, Run Forest Run
3) If not, stay in the relationship
4) If they repeat the offense, immediately say, "that is not OK, that is not acceptable" (I can do that because I did not FORGET)
If they appear to not understand... proceed to the nearest exit... and do not look back
 davidsauvignon
Joined: 2/6/2008
Msg: 53
view profile
History
Dredging up old hurts during arguments
Posted: 11/12/2008 7:47:02 PM

threads go all "Fox News" where facts are irrelevant

Pot/kettle/black thing there....that is, if the pot is NBC, ABC, CBS, PBS, CNN, MSNBC.....you get the picture.





~ds~
 CompletelyDone
Joined: 8/12/2007
Msg: 54
Dredging up old hurts during arguments
Posted: 11/12/2008 8:46:42 PM
- insults those that insult "him" first (character flaw/eye for an eye type)


Then, it should be quite acceptable to have the people he insults, respond to him in similar fashion don't you think?? If you can find an insult in my msg. 40, then I'll think I deserved being called "slow" and accused of having a "sorry dullard ass" in msg. 43. So first of all, let's set that straight. And secondly, why be so insulted that someone didn't have enough interest in you to hold onto the facts of your life or review your profile?

As Nexthyme already generously said, if it works for you, that's fine but since you're only 50% of the relationships you've been in, the question about whether or not that works equally well for your partners is a valid one.

But wait, I'm getting ahead of myself because I think this whole thing is precisely what I was saying about that 24 hour window. We are now talking about an initial post that was placed almost 24 hours ago. I'd be willing to lay odds that we've both had a busy day since then. How much time would there have been to address something important? Here you are, almost up to your own limit, still addressing it. This happens in relationships as well and it's a good example of how things from yesterday can carry over to today.

I think the point needs to be made that many of us (myself included) have been talking about those core issues that can make or break a relationship. It's possible that some responders are talking about whether or not someone forgets to gas up the car or calls the other at work too often. Even here, we can see that it can take some time to even come to agreement about what we're talking about and it's sure not exclusive to the limitations of the net.


I also love watching sheep pile on the bandwagon without having the common sense enough to look before they leap.


If you want to flame someone, flame me. I am ten feet tall and bulletproof. (Okay I'm 5 feet tall and highly flammable but my point is, it would be nice if you would only kick one sorry dullard ass at a time around here).

What amazes me is that you don't call them sheep, if they're agreeing with you.
 CompletelyDone
Joined: 8/12/2007
Msg: 56
Dredging up old hurts during arguments
Posted: 11/12/2008 9:10:27 PM
Shit, I'd already BEEN run over and left at the curb by the time she started bring this crap up. She was long gone with the 'love of her life'... guess it was just a little salt for the wounds. Who knows?


I'm sincerely sorry that happened to you Cap... That musta hurt...


Hell ya I remember every damn thing you have ever done to me and don't you forget it either fathead...because I won't!
Actually I was like that at one time. Now I just dot their eye and forget about it.


Sometimes, your posts pack a punch too! Thanks for the good


The past DOES hold things that we did not mention, because at the time we were hoping it wasn't going to grow into something bigger, however hind sight being 20/20 means that there are going to be times where we have to reference where this little boil started. Which means bring up the past.


That's an excellent point NT!! And one that no one has mentioned. There needs to be some kind of alternate route for those who do try to keep the peace. I can think of a number of things I did as a young wife until I realized that my silence was considered to be the same as my condoning what my hubby was doing. I don't think people deserve to be branded as "dragging up the past" when they are saying... "Look Honey - you spent the rent at the bar last month and I made up for it but I can't do that now." By the same token, they shouldn't have to get their suitcase out and leave their marriages if they can help their partners to see that a toxic pattern is developing in their marriage or relationship.


I wish people would just figure out what their damn problem is and SAY it ...argh!
There's absolutely nothing that cant be resolved with a conversation IMO


That's true to a degree Pumpkyn but the actual honouring of whatever gets resolved is often the point that brings everything back to the table. The only alternative to dealing with broken resolutions is... what? Leaving? I'd say that this is in fact, what many people are now doing i.e. just not hanging around if a deal gets broken... But I wonder how many wish they had a 2nd chance to rework a "resolution" that never saw daylight in the actions that followed? I wonder how many wish that their spouse or partner had been willing to discuss something just one more time...

After all is said and done, I think that's the underlying question I was posing here. Thank you for all of your good responses folks.
 CompletelyDone
Joined: 8/12/2007
Msg: 57
Dredging up old hurts during arguments
Posted: 11/12/2008 9:31:45 PM


Thanks for getting back to me! I knew you wouldn't let me down...

Are you ever going to post about the topic or are you just going to continue to come into the thread and pick people apart?

If I'm reminding you of a 5 year old that didn't get the right flavor ice cream and can't let go of it, it's because it's MY ice cream Dude! I worked hard for it and I intend to enjoy it...

But I'll admit, I am getting bored cuz you can't seem to discuss the topic. Since post 43, you haven't actually responded to the points being made except to be rude. I'm sorry you don't like being called on your tendency to use insults instead of reason. Truly, I am...

(You believe me don't you??? )
 SavonaWoman
Joined: 7/3/2008
Msg: 59
Dredging up old hurts during arguments
Posted: 11/13/2008 5:55:42 AM
Sometimes it's the Dredging up old hurts that **CREATES** arguements.

Then he can say I going out becuase we are fighting ... tootles off in his car, goes and boiinks his girlfriend, tells her we are fighting and she says poor baby just come to me.

Ahhhh so many reasons for bringing up the past to the present.

Savona
 ~Hello~
Joined: 7/30/2008
Msg: 60
Dredging up old hurts during arguments
Posted: 11/13/2008 6:05:50 AM
** V good point Savonawoman!

The way I read the OP was asking about "Old" "Resolved" stuff - not recurring behaviours. You know.. say your partner used to have a bad habit of being late - Really late .. Used to keep you waiting beyond a reasonable time. The issue was resolved by a year or two and everyone is happy. Then, you're waitin for them to get home so you can go out to an important meeting. You wait and you wait and finally, 15 minutes After the time you were supposed to be at this meeting in he strolls - late and having forgotten completely about the appointment .. and now it's too late. Remember this is the first time in well over a year since your partner kept you waiting, they really did forget the meeting. Nonetheless you are upset.

IMO - you would have a right to be upset. However; IF you chose to bring up their OLD tendency to just be late, without regard and not because they forgot, If you threw it in their face and "used it" as a tool in venting your anger - That is wrong.

A lot of posters are addressing the question as if it were an ongoing problem - not one that had been resolved. There is a difference.

Regardless - We do teach people how to treat us. If someone is doing something that makes you angry on a regular basis - Why are you staying in that negativity? I am assuming that 'we' are all adults on this site and so we all know when we are wronging another and we also know when a person is "not for us" ~ ie: if you don't accept that person as they are, warts and all - chances are they aren't for you and you'd both be better off parting company until you find the person who isn't so annoying.

I know if I was with someone who thought it was ok to remind me of some mistake I'd made years ago ... well it isn't ok with me, so the choice to stay and put up with it or leave and never look back is alway mine.

I will never understand why couples stay together when they aren't happy.

... shakes head ...

A.S.is
 nexthyme
Joined: 9/12/2007
Msg: 61
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History
Dredging up old hurts during arguments
Posted: 11/13/2008 8:18:29 AM
From your profile BDJ
I'm very open and can talk about, and listen to just about anything. I'm very direct, and don't like to sugar coat my words often...if at all. I'm like blunt force trauma when it comes to me speaking.
Hmmm wonder where I get the impression you have no problem trouncing anyone per your own profile.

msg 45
6 of one...half dozen of another.
And that means what?

msg 43
All my SO's know this about me, and it's worked out for longer than I can remember. With the one glaring exception, communication has never been an issue with any of them. We know we have 24 hours to say something, and we make the most out of it if the need arises. What works for me may not work for everyone, but it does work for me so I see no need to fix it if it ain't broken.


No number stated as to how many people you were involved with, just like all the others. PLUS, you stated a GLARING EXCEPTION, which can be interpretated as your 24 hour window flat out didn't work for her.

msg 65
I know one poster is happy with the arrangment of a 24 hour max, and if that truly works for him, great, more power to him. However there is no need to insult others that don't work on that time line. In fact one has to wonder if that 24 hour time line actually is working for him, after all after 6 relationships, he is still looking for someone...

My own post, because the numbes aren't really adding up, and NO I didn't look at your profile, it isn't a requirement to post on these threads.

msg 68-
6 relationships by the time "he" was 18...is now 35 so do the math
- 6 YEAR relationship with "his" last ex (2 while engaged)
- insults those that insult "him" first (character flaw/eye for an eye type)
- 24 hour timelines have worked for 20 years or better
- is most certainly NOT on this site "still looking for someone", and "they" woulda got that if "they" had taken a look at "his" profile


Ohhh now we have a numerical break down, AFTER I have tried to kindly state that it may work for you, which is great, but then again maybe it isn't.


Only post "facts" that you have access to, posting make believe "facts" is considered "libel".


You want to toss around legal terms to a third year legals studies student???

Here is the legal term from Black Legal dictionary, Edition 8th.

Libel: 1. A defamatory statement expressed in a fixed medium, esp writing but also a picture, sign, or electronic broadcast. Libel is classified as both a crime and a tort, but is no longer prosecuted as a crime. Defamatory libel 2. The act of making such a statement; publicationt hat has the potentually harmful qualities of charactoristics of written or printed word.

In other words what I stated first had to be knowingly incorrect, and meant to harm or defame you.

None of that occured, simply because your msg 45 stated 6 0f 0ne, half dozen of another. Which made little to no sense until you tried defining things in msg 68. which by the sounds of it is 7 relationships, then going back to message 43, you state there is a glaring exception of one. oddly doing the math goes back to the number of 6 people.

No matter the case, if 24 hours has worked for you, wonderful so be it. However it doesn't always work for others, and by the statement in your own profile, you said you are like blunt force trauma when it comes to speaking.

I am NOT into inflicting blunt force trauma with words, nor am I into making a demand on anyone, including myself that a resolution occurs in 24 hours, simply because there are some things in life that take more time to work through.

I don't appreciate people who don't resolve anything, and I am in a relationship that we both working things out. However as in any relationship, there is stuff that we let slide, until it happens one to many times. That still goes beyong a 24 hour period of time.

I personally dated someone that took great pleasure in biotching about every little perceived infraction, and didn't let it go after 24 hours, hell I still hear crap from 8 yrs ago.

SO BDJ, no libel intent, and if you want a person to really understand you better, please write in a way that makes what your saying clear to the reader.

 CompletelyDone
Joined: 8/12/2007
Msg: 62
Dredging up old hurts during arguments
Posted: 11/13/2008 1:17:27 PM
Sometimes it's the Dredging up old hurts that **CREATES** arguments.


I couldn't agree MORE with this point. It's a handy-dandy manipulation tool in the hands of someone who needs to find some excuse to get away by themselves for an evening, a week or whatever! If they simply said they wanted to go out, you might want to go too and that would never do... But then, people who pull crap like this will use "who took the last slice of bread" to get an argument going too... If you refuse to respond, then they go out cuz you're not talking to them... Gotta luv the shit-for-brains who can engineer a good fight, dontcha???


The way I read the OP was asking about "Old" "Resolved" stuff - not recurring behaviours.


I probably wasn't too clear about this point because originally, the question was just "why do people dredge up shit from the past". I think "shit" probably includes both the resolved and unresolved when the behaviors continue or when any of the agreements already arrived at, get broken. (Excuse my Spanish btw)


Regardless - We do teach people how to treat us. If someone is doing something that makes you angry on a regular basis - Why are you staying in that negativity? I am assuming that 'we' are all adults on this site and so we all know when we are wronging another and we also know when a person is "not for us" ~ ie: if you don't accept that person as they are, warts and all - chances are they aren't for you and you'd both be better off parting company until you find the person who isn't so annoying.


What you've said here is really the essence of this post. It hasn't slid past us that people are breaking up and divorcing as soon as they feel that their partner is unwilling to change to suit what they see as being necessary for a good relationship. We're all saying, "if it isn't right... leave". I daresay (at risk of getting a number of black eyes), that the person of sincere and loving intention who is trying to get the relationship on track or put it back on track, is going to be kind of hooped if they aren't at liberty to not only say that something isn't working for them but to explain why it isn't working. How can someone address an agreement that is being broken if they can't mention it?

In my own experience, I can say that there have been times when my partner and I would hammer out an agreement, do everything we could to make sure we both understood it and it would work for a while but suddenly, one or the other would slip back into the old ways. Inevitably, we'd end up having to discuss the original agreement but we couldn't have done that if it was taboo.

I agree that when it's just part of venting or manipulation, it's a cruel tool but where it's an attempt by one or the other to discuss and revamp an agreement that apparently doesn't work in order to save the relationship, it seems that those who avoid it are inclined toward the "stay" or "go" positions as opposed to "what can we do to save this?" mentality.


I will never understand why couples stay together when they aren't happy.


I have a thought on that too. Happiness isn't a permanent state and I don't think it's supposed to be one. When a person has been married for any length of time, they find out quite quickly that their happiness consists of periods of time when their efforts seem to be working. If a person who isn't happy leaves a committed relationship or marriage as soon as they are unhappy, they are going to find themselves often needing to replace their wornout luggage. The way I work it is to take inventory once in awhile. If there are a lot more down times than there are up, we'd better be talking.


I think it is a diversion tactic or at least it worked that way on me.


As I said before, dredging up old stuff can be used for diversionary purposes, but then, so can the "(exasperated sigh).. We've been all through this before" stuff. People get arguing about when they went through it "before" and what was said, which neatly avoids dealing with the problem as it exists. In other words, I think it works both ways.


*wondering if they are still sitting on those curbs?*


Aren't we there too???
 Bridge Jumper
Joined: 4/11/2007
Msg: 63
Dredging up old hurts during arguments
Posted: 11/13/2008 1:21:57 PM
Women tend to go over and over and over things because we are creatures that like to break everything down, talk it out, cry it out or get it off our chest. Also, I don't agree that you should just get over it and move on. Sometimes even though you talk things out there is still pain, hurt or mistrust in a relationship. Mature people are usually able to vocalize what happened and what hurt them and actually speak to each other in a normal way. Jealousy has a lot to do with bringing up the past. If there was cheating or something in that way then yes everytime you get hurt it will probably come up. There are a lot of different reasons why but mostly because you can forgive but not forget something that hurts to that degree. I would say if the same thing keeps coming back up over and over again then it's time to talk about it or get out of it. The past is the past...let it go.
 10of6
Joined: 8/27/2008
Msg: 64
Dredging up old hurts during arguments
Posted: 11/13/2008 2:04:58 PM

Then he can say I going out becuase we are fighting ... tootles off in his car, goes and boiinks his girlfriend, tells her we are fighting and she says poor baby just come to me.

Ahhhh so many reasons for bringing up the past to the present.
{jaw drops, bounces several times on spacebar}

I don't think I could leap to where you lept without the use of pharmaceuticals.
 *Just Jim*
Joined: 7/6/2007
Msg: 65
Dredging up old hurts during arguments
Posted: 11/16/2008 10:37:24 AM

I believe that when it has been resolved, it should be over and done with. It is cancer to a relationship to have that issue constantly being brought up at every opportunity.


Yes, we all been there and hopefully one day you can move on and be whole and happy again with yourself and others you bring into your life.
Having major unresolved issues are road blocks of anything constructive
in a healthy and loving relationship.
I do believe in a helping hand and when one is hurting and show some empathy for those.
The fora as you all know is a place to for many vent and hopefully find some peace of mind and solace.
Life is short and life is fleeting,and try to make the best of it while you can.
 midtempo
Joined: 11/26/2007
Msg: 66
Dredging up old hurts during arguments
Posted: 11/16/2008 12:32:42 PM
Couples often fail to talk to each other enough, or to spend quality time with each other, and then old unresolved issues get dredged up that were "supposed" to be resolved but were really just buried. But even the best marriages, I hear, have their heated arguments in them. But they make up and ultimately agree to work things out and stand by each other.:-)

I would suppose that those couples in healthy relationships won't dredge up something completely unrelated to justify their argument. But then again, the question of whether something is completely unrelated or not is debatable too...

Everything is relative!

I think I usually prefer women who try not to argue (at least not the loud, angry kind of arguing) and instead will reason, but I guess sometimes a little yelling must be in order to get through my thick, stubborn skull. So it has its function.

So that's my non-contribution to this thread.
 nexthyme
Joined: 9/12/2007
Msg: 67
view profile
History
Dredging up old hurts during arguments
Posted: 11/16/2008 2:15:07 PM
A.S. is, I think it is a mix, there is the truly respolved then there is the never spoke that point until months, or years later.

Everybody has teachers on how to communicate, and some really shouldn't be teaching, but since they are generally the persons parent, we get more dysfunction.

If that exampled person apologized profusely, because forgot our not, it was that persons responsibility to get to these needed places.

My experience has been that people usually won't bring up past events, unless they are so mad that spitting actual nails is not an option, so this is the next best thing. Doesn't make it right, but at the same time, some appointments are that important, and if the other person doesn't bother having their cell phone on, it makes the situation worse.

I am in the really getting to know the person stage of a relationship. As novel as it is to say you take it slow you get to know the person, take it fast you get to know the person. IT IS getting to know the person and sometimes there are things that do come as a surprise. Just the little things, they aren't big, however I am wondering if some people keep their rose colored glasses on to long, because in past relationships I don't remember things being so surprising.

Now I would NOT use these things as an excuse to slam the person, but they can get in the way.

IE: I have asked my sweety many many times if he wants a coffee, or something from the store. The one time I go to an ice cream place, for pumpkin pie ice cream. Debated at the time if I should try and figure out what he wanted, or not, and decided... He says no, so this shouldn't be a big deal.

He was so mad and insulted. I was in shock because he hates pumpkin pie, and I personally don't really know what flavor he does like all that much, since we very seldom eat ice cream. AND I didn't have my cell to call and ask.

Point is, sometimes you can have the best intentions and it still bombs, and then trying to do better next time only makes it a sore wound.
 spicynicegirl
Joined: 8/10/2008
Msg: 68
Dredging up old hurts during arguments
Posted: 11/16/2008 4:05:01 PM
In my opinion once you start dragging the old stuff out, it never stops.....................this happened to my ex husband and I and it got so bad that we just kept going and going until we were so angry and miserable.................hence my requesting a divorce.................
 theforumfiend
Joined: 10/21/2007
Msg: 69
Dredging up old hurts during arguments
Posted: 11/16/2008 4:48:25 PM
"{jaw drops, bounces several times on spacebar}

I don't think I could leap to where you lept without the use of pharmaceuticals."

That is because you probably haven't been involved with someone that is abusing pharmaceuticals or alcohol. The term for what they do is called "crazy making". It keeps the other party off balance because they are caught in a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation.

"Having major unresolved issues are road blocks of anything constructive in a healthy and loving relationship."

The key is being in a healthy and loving relationship.

There is a difference between the person that dredges everything up because they can't or won't let go and the person that has had their partner dismiss how they feel. In those situations the issue has not been resolved because the issue is not allowed to be discussed for the resolve or compromise to happen. Finally the dismissed person blows up and lets loose and the partner says "I had no idea." They are ignoranant by choice.
 scorpiomover
Joined: 4/19/2007
Msg: 70
view profile
History
Dredging up old hurts during arguments
Posted: 11/16/2008 5:30:29 PM
Yeah. I'll do this when the person keeps being ridiculously stubborn. But if that stubbornness continues, and no amount of pleading and attempts at finding a compromise will help, then eventually, I'll split.

There is no statute of limitations on this. Either you have resolved the issue, and what is behind it, and have changed, or you haven't. If you have changed, then you won't do that again, and what is more, you will never get into anything similar, so you won't ever get to an argument where there will be any point in bringing this up. If you haven't changed, then the point is still there, and the problem has never been resolved.

The way I see it, I can forgive, but there is no point forgetting. Either you stop, or I leave. They always want me back when I leave, but whenever I went back, they were the same. When they did change, they changed so much, it was like they were a different person, and everyone saw it. So there is no way for you to change without everyone who knows you to know it for 100%.
 Helen1967
Joined: 9/10/2008
Msg: 71
Dredging up old hurts during arguments
Posted: 11/18/2008 11:58:49 AM
I think that virtually everyone does this some time or other; and, most, only when the original issue either is not in fact forgiven, or it was of such significance as to alter their view of the other party's character, or both.

Things that did not alter one's view of the other's character and really have been forgiven generally don't come up, in my experience.

So IMO those matters are what really needs to be discussed when this happens. Two people can right/wrong each other to death and get nowhere. If they instead take a breather from that and talk about why a matter keeps recurring, and what can be done to rebuild trust and faith so it can be truly over, perhaps that might actually help.

Your mileage may vary...
 SavonaWoman
Joined: 7/3/2008
Msg: 72
Dredging up old hurts during arguments
Posted: 11/18/2008 12:43:14 PM
10of6,

I wasn't going to respond to your accusation that I am on drugs, but after reading your profile and noticed you are just a young boy I thought I would let you know ...

No I am not on drugs, and I am sorry that you posted such a thing. Wow that is a pretty shameful accusation.

Savona
 CompletelyDone
Joined: 8/12/2007
Msg: 73
Dredging up old hurts during arguments
Posted: 11/18/2008 12:50:47 PM
I have been the "kicker" on a couple of occasions. Never the kickee. Sorry to hear you

have been


My point in asking "Aren't we there too?", is that regardless of whether you are the "kicker" or the "kickee", when a relationship breaks up, everybody ends up on the curb. I'm "sorry to hear" you haven't figured that out yet...


wasn't going to respond to your accusation that I am on drugs, but after reading your profile and noticed you are just a young boy I thought I would let you know ...

No I am not on drugs, and I am sorry that you posted such a thing. Wow that is a pretty shameful accusation.


Some wise acre's been feeding the trolls again Sav... Don't worry bout it.
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 74
view profile
History
Dredging up old hurts during arguments
Posted: 11/18/2008 1:39:22 PM
I really think what it comes down to - in some situations - is the *new* argument touching upon *old* hurts. Although both parties may have believed, and even genuinely wanted, the old argument to be resolved, forgiven, forgotten and moved on from... lurking in the dark is a hurt.

When the *new* argument touches on that *old* hurt it can sometimes even be a bit surprising for the person who is hurt/angry over the historical issue.

There's other scenarios for why this happens... getting to be right is one of them for some people... but that's all I have time for at the mo'
 BMTG1945
Joined: 3/15/2008
Msg: 75
Dredging up old hurts during arguments
Posted: 11/18/2008 7:01:45 PM
People who argue, are insensitive clods who show insecurity, a lack of self respect and respect for others. Dredging up old stuff that should have already been resolved, is adding insult to injury and should never be done.
My parents used to argue, dredging up old stuff, which made me feel that they should not have been allowed to have children.
 Wounded_Filly
Joined: 10/4/2008
Msg: 76
Dredging up old hurts during arguments
Posted: 11/18/2008 8:59:24 PM
Dredging up the past in an argument happens because one of two reasons:

1) The issue(s) has never been resolved and has been festering or
2) Something is causing the issue to come back up.

Unfortunately, if the issue(s) don't get completely resolved, they will come back up. It could be days, months or even years later. If you can't truly resolve an issue, it's time to let the relationship go.
 transcend
Joined: 1/13/2007
Msg: 77
view profile
History
Dredging up old hurts during arguments
Posted: 11/19/2008 12:01:31 AM
it shouldn't be surprising that in a thread about how people argue, many of the argumentative patterns are displayed . The inability to discuss something without insulting others, the over reactionary responses that display either personal insecurity or a desire to argue and win that makes it ok to use any weapon available, regardless of the fit or lack of....
I think adrenaline junkies should display warning signs so the rest of us can easily recognize their anger and anger inducing behaviours .. how they cannot reach the next level of engagement without rage..or maybe all we can ever hope for is to keep the disease at a distance from ourselves and always appreciate the difference between inspiration and aggravation, Rewarding one and avoiding the other
 10of6
Joined: 8/27/2008
Msg: 78
Dredging up old hurts during arguments
Posted: 11/19/2008 7:15:20 PM
deleted due to hopelessness of expenditure of energy
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