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Joined: 8/30/2006
Msg: 582
Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?Page 15 of 53    (13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53)
>>>Now you want the mods to kick it, because you don't like it??? Why???

I think he made his point pretty clear- he's saying the mods should close this topic BECAUSE YOU ARE NO LONGER ATTEMPTING TO STAY ON TOPIC. It has very little about liking what you're saying, but rather, he's asking for both tact and a respect for the rules of the forum. Giants, Dinosaurs, and the Illuminati doesn't have anything to do with the OP.

You want to talk about Giants, Dinosaurs, and the Illuminati, then cut the bull- create topics ABOUT that- don't hijack topics at random because you like the idea of questioning your surroundings. There is nothing wrong with creating a thread and discussing Dinosaurs, or the Illuminati- there is something wrong about going into a thread about whether or not Aliens created humans to argue whether or not birds evolved from dinosaurs.

>>>what people think brought us out of a possible primordial soup to sitting behind computers and arguing the possibilities.

I keep hearing the word "possiblity" and "probility" thrown around- have you actually done any actual calculations, or did you listen to someones story and conclude that it must be true, because you agree with it? Don't those words imply some form of calculation? You use it more like an emotion- that the issue of problity isn't based on any actual facts, but rather, feelings.
Joined: 1/16/2008
Msg: 583
Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 3/13/2009 9:15:01 PM

Now you want the mods to kick it, because you don't like it??? Why???

Not a proponent for closing the thread, but I've seen these threads closed down long before once they've entered the realm of irrelevancy. Between giants, crop circles and the Illuminati and Masons, we've gone way beyond the original post.

OP plausible? As I've said before, sure. Why not? Probable? Well, that's a horse of a whole other colour. And the bottom line is, it only transfers the question of the origins of life from one planet to the next. And, as I recall, I believe the OP was being a bit sardonic on this one.

Nothing wrong with challenging assumptions and beliefs. One thing I am finding, however. It is pointless to argue logic and reason against another's religion, even when that religion is Planet X, the Illuminati, Atlantis, etc., etc.
Joined: 9/12/2007
Msg: 585
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Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 3/13/2009 10:27:22 PM
Stargazer, I think the interesting thing about this thread, is that it HAS stretched to realms that perhaps people wouldn't get a chance to explore.

For those who are LOOKING for answers, and are willing to consider a "plausible", because honestly there is no facts one way or another, just a lot of unanswered questions...

Illuminati and Atlantis aren't all that far from this topic, because accordingly these are the resulting secret societies that evolved from the alien visits. I AM NOT SAYING THIS IS TRUE, because I don't know much about any of this. I am just saying what I have read over the past 26 pages, and of course from personal research. As well the Annuki were supposed to be giants, thus the topic of giant bones.

I brought up planet X after watching a GEO history show on it, and some research on the subject, this once again goes back to where the Annuki are supposed to be from, so once again it is pertinent in its own way. Thus all the directions that have been taken actually go back to the original topic, even though they seem so far from where we started.

I have asked and NOT gotten a straight answer as to where a person finds PRIMARY sources on these subjects, which not one person has answered that questions. As a legal studies student it is very clear what is considered a primary source, secondary, and not used as a source. That is the same with medical research, there are primary and secondary resource, so it is really cut and dry as to what is considered a "basically" reliable source.

This subject, and even in archeology, and paleontology there are sources, but not all of them are considered primary... Someone stated what does it matter if it is primary or not... WELL that goes back to people saying they laugh their asses off at Sitchens... OK, and some people don't. There are really Sumarian that part is not in dispute, fully and correctly translated, not so much...

I didn't bring up the crop circles, however I understand WHY that was brought up, and for Willow that is what gives her the impression there are aliens... I can say I am pretty on the fence on that subject, and have watched shows on the subject. Rhino feels it could be from thunder. Sounds possible to me.

I think this topic has gotten to expand further, because most people stayed away from total boulder throwing. However to say people consider this a religion is off base for some of us.

Just because I am on the "plausible side" does not mean I give tithe, or will be joining any heavens gate cult to catch a comet to some promised place.

As I said, I have learned a lot, and at the same time still feel it is possible. I have my reasons, and don't feel the need to go over the why. Maybe if I get old and grey I will change my mind, but then again maybe not, who knows??? Perhaps by then there will be some viable proof, or we will still be sitting here waiting for the proof...

The reality for me is this. IT IS AN INTERESTING SUBJECT, it isn't something I spend the majority of my time considering, and only get really interested when others have something interesting even if it seems far stretched to be true.

That doesn't mean I subscribe to all the information out there, and for others, I feel they are unexplained happenings, which Alien is just as good as any other explanation. This subject isn't a matter of life or death to me, nor is it one that affects my life; now unless I was standing on a street corner with a full body foil suit on I find it to be rather harmless, and interesting...
Joined: 1/16/2008
Msg: 590
Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 3/14/2009 4:17:08 PM

Despite evolutions glossy image and convincing computer graphic documentaries the science behind it is still ' painted rust '. The theory has become a brainwashing exercise and still has no hard evidence.

Aside from what can be found in any natural history museum, you mean? Or, for that matter, any laboratory working on vaccines for the flu? Or trying to cure AIDS.

Alien intervention does fit the picture really well, so should be looked at very carefully, it is not a new theory, has been around since earliest civilisations !

How? Where? In what context of the human beings being on this planet? And how do you intend to prove that without a basic understanding of evolution to disprove or prove this statement? Which civilizations? Sitchen again? von Daaniken?

This is what I'm talking about when I talk about people's religions. A firm and unflinching faith in an idea like Planet X, alien visitors, etc, without any solid proof of what they they speak. And yet, to question the validity of such claims with calls for proof of the physical reality of something that would have a physical reality - i.e. Planet X/Nibiru - then you are clearly either the naive fool, blinded by science and the Great Big Conspiracy or in on "the cover-up."

For people so critical of science and how it's done, there is a stunning lack of understanding of it. Yes, you can sit here and debate "possibilities" all you like. It's value is little more than that of theologians sitting around debating how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. If you really want to prove your points, go out there and get actual proof. You know, an actual image of Planet X. A flying saucer. You know, proof!
Joined: 4/2/2008
Msg: 592
Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 3/14/2009 10:25:31 PM

In any case what is it that permits us dominion or at least the illusion of dominion.

One word - muscle. And, "because we can". It's, unfortunately, not a matter of need, it's more of an obsession to control or at least the illusion of control. The ego takes off and insists, on the way up, "I'm better than yuuuuuuuu". That's where it all begins and ends.

So , out of billions and billions of Galaxy's with trillions and trillions of planets, someone would think we are the only important ones here? Must be Church of Christ!

Amen to that brother. (I'll give the next poster 5 seconds to say "prove it". ROTFLMAO
Joined: 8/12/2008
Msg: 595
Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 3/15/2009 4:16:47 AM
Let's see...God made Adam, then made Eve from a Piece of Adam...Sounds like Cloning/Genetic Experimentation to me....

God is pretty much Alien to us....So God is an Alien, who lives somewhere in "heaven" which is to say..somewhere out there among the stars.....

What is so hard to understand?

It is certainly plausible that that "Aliens" created us.....The bible is a great history book. What people did not understand, they named God.....The Sun, the Moon are God in some cultures...

I am agnostic, so do not take me as a religious nutjob...

My 2 cents....
Joined: 9/12/2007
Msg: 599
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Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 3/15/2009 12:37:04 PM
Thorb, I am glad you seen that show...Thus those who have known of these things find aliens, time travel, crossing parallel universes et al, plausible... As to what or which or if they are all, we don't know, we just know something that wasn't grunts and groans, produced these things.

You also stated a point I stated at least a couple times... It is possible for these civilizations to no longer exist. It is possible that by the time these civilizations traveled here, and tried going back there was no means, the worm hole closed, their planet was long gone. After all traveling beyond the sped of light makes time go back wards..

Dance, I am glad you have seen what you have. I have seen even LESS intelligent fish play in the bubbles in my fish tank. I have seen my one dog full mourn and cry of the loss of my other dog.

In fact one place our family went to camp, this huge toad would come through the camp for 4 nights, to go by the fire to catch bugs... Not all that special of a trick right??? Well except this area was not filled with many campers on any regular basis, so this big ass frog learned the fire meant bugs, and that meant dinner before heading over to the brook for the night.

What does this have to do with anything... It means that creatures can learn, and become smarter... However the really really smart things that have occurred in South America blows me away, because not only did they understand the universe, were great mathematicians, they are also incredible chemists. These people can mix up some of the absolute deadliest poisons known to man kind, and they make it out of roots, and such that even the best scientist would need a lab to understand how mixing these roots with the other combinations, and at what exact amount, and boiling heat to make...

These are just snippets to a lot of people, and ones that seem to be great fodder and a delightful insult to sling... However as those of us who have seen, and have reason to continue to look for more, these snippets start adding up...
Joined: 9/12/2007
Msg: 601
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Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 3/15/2009 9:35:48 PM
Twister you are so brave... Yes I do believe that to be true, and they weren't interested in the well being of the human race.

Civilized beings were around along time ago I think, but now what benefit do they have with such a cancerous angry race of people that have no qualms in destroying their own planet and each other for what they deem as power???

Hey you didn't happen to catch "limits of perception" on the science channel did you???

Good show...
Joined: 9/12/2007
Msg: 602
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Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 3/15/2009 11:50:11 PM
Did you ever watch the Movie the last Mimzi??? It is a very old story that was made into a move a year and a half ago...

The human race had genetically altered themselves to the point of total destruction, and needed a pure unaltered same of humans from the past, so as to heal the damaged race in the future...

YES I KNOW FANTASY... however what struck a cord with me is the fact that they need to reach back to the past, to heal what humans were doing to themselves currently, that lead to a destructive force in the far future...

I agree that answers are unknown as as thorb said it could be parallel universes that cross, or time traveler or perhaps even maybe these things called aliens...

What I do know is this... There is plenty of ancient evidence that gives the impression it wasn't just one race of aliens that have been here.

However as I have stated before, at the rate we are at today. Unless there is a major amount of fire power, or lock down of all the nuclear weapons, a handful of Aliens could be an easier target than we think...

What do they want, what purpose do they have, are these dark reptilians and grays that are supposedly part of wanting to control the human race, and use them for their own purposes already there? helping create world chaos, and wanting to see a NWO created, thus the brightest and greatest can help them integrate into some high level of human kind???

I have no answers, nor do I even have actual speculations or theories, but I honestly just don't know...

In my heart, I would like to believe aliens that took the time to travel to this planet in the middle of bumfrick no where, are benevolent, and only interested in peace and good will... However that would take humans wanting this same goal, which at the moment there are a lot of people who aren't interested in that...

So we just wait and see, and in the mean time develop our own higher selves, hoping that through our own positive actions we can create some tiny change that brings about a movement of positiveness.

If each person took the time to give the gift of love, and they passed that out to a few others, and encouraged them to do the same. We could cover the earth with a positive influence over a relatively short amount of time... That is only if we humans wanted to do so, and to stop finding the negative differences between each other...

What does this have to do with Aliens... If there are dark ones, this would go against what their goal is, and make it harder for them to succeed...

If there are aliens just trying to travel back in time before their own race screwed up their DNA to the point of oblivion, then it would be nice if they at least asked those abductees to volunteer, instead of just taking DNA...

Sadly we humans have no qualms in seeing little value in animal research, perhaps these beings feel the same way as we do... We are just pathetic creatures to experiment on, and we don't really have much value beyond our ignorance... So what is doing experiments on them, we don't know better and have no say to what is being done... Just like little mice, or monkeys in cages...

Joined: 4/2/2008
Msg: 603
Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 3/16/2009 12:04:06 AM
I think it's fairly safe to assume that if "they" had ill intentions regarding the human race, it would have been over for us a long long time ago.
Joined: 11/30/2007
Msg: 608
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Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 3/16/2009 12:34:10 PM

Can any of the debunkers PROVE to me that isnt possible ?
never mind the stuck records either of "can you prove its true"
prove to me its not....your the educated

Okay, I'll bite.

My deceased grandfather came to me in a dream this afternoon and told me what REALLY happens when we die, and how aliens figure into all this. (A little background: My grandfather took over for God a few years back, and he really loves it. He told me he has some really great plans for all of us.)

When we die, we don't shoot into the sky, we shoot down into the Earth as a beam of coded gravitons. Everything we experience in our lives is recorded in a gigantic supercomputer that is powered by the magnetic field of the Earth. All the important information (He didn't define "important) is added to a ginormous database, and the unimportant stuff is bounced back into a soon-to-be-born fetus. Again, this uses encoded gravitons, just like telepathic communication.

The aliens are just contractors who have the job of servicing the graviton transceivers and the supercomputer. They'd BETTER NOT be letting themselves be seen, because that activates a non-disclosure clause in their contract. It can cost them MILLIONS.

Joined: 9/12/2007
Msg: 611
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Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 3/16/2009 2:21:36 PM
What has value???

One thing that stands out in pretty much every religion I have ever studied, and that is to take care of the soul... To not value to much of what is one earth, and nurture others with care and humilaty... More or less...

The human soul is energy, there is no doubt about that, well of course it has been argued it doesn't exist on here, but that thing that powers us, and living things is energy...

It has been an excepted theory from Einstein, that energy is never lost it just changes form...

People in many religions are told NOT to explore exactly what the soul can do.. That is one thing I have always wondered about, because if we have the thing, why not use it... Kind of like keeping a fancy automobile in the garage in my thinking...

Meh, I still think there are good and bad civilizations... Some that have an interest in humans as creatures worth saving, and those that have an interest in humans being enslaven... After all we are just hairless monkeys that think we can rule the world, and master the seas...
Joined: 4/2/2008
Msg: 614
Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 3/17/2009 1:00:34 AM

Sounding much like a "Cut" or culling process doesn't it. ~ Who wants a First String position? ]/quote]

Just nature's way of thinning out the herd, no? :)

What is it that perhaps we are "already" doing for them
and have been doing for thousands of years ?
Every creature on the earth has one common denominator
we all die and go back to the earth.

I don't know that we are doing anything for them. Yes, our bodies do die and that shell is buried in the ground. But I think that's only one step. One phase. What's "us" goes on and we come back again (getting back to reincarnation, life after life, hypnotic age regression, etc.); these are all things that seem to tie it all together nicely. I don't think death is the "end" for a New York minute.

a steady stream of people dieing everyday worldwide
would be quiet the show I would think.

Now that's something I'd LOVE to see on CNN.

and the earth could be their personal life support system

I've never been one to say anything is impossible but I've never read of any such theory but I've seen in tons of scifi movies. I think they're trying purposely to scare the crap out of us when it comes to ETs.

Can any of the debunkers PROVE to me that isnt possible ?

Well, you asked for the response that followed LOL.

Personally I think it's the Flying Spaghetti Monster

Thank you for such a thoughtful and lucid explanation for it all. We all feel so enlightened.

How could a spokesman for the Pentagon dare admit that five or ten thousand feet underground EXISTS AN ENTIRE WORLD THAT IS 'FOREIGN' TO A BELIEF STRUCTURE WE HAVE HAD FOR CENTURIES?

Of course. How could we possibly handle the truth. But wouldn't that be refreshing? The fact of the matter is that the public is treated like mushrooms - fed s.h.i.t. and kept in the dark. Anyone who doesn't believe that is utterly naive. But that probably IS their "rationale" as if there could possibly be any rationale from keeping the greatest secret since the dawn of time from the public. Don't we deserve to know?

Which reaction (of the public) would you say would be the most violent - that fact that "they" (EBEs) are real or that governments have known about it for centuries and kept it to themselves? How will you feel about that? I'd be curious to know what your reaction would be.

since they [the grays] have entrenched themselves and no longer honor any of the dubious agreements which they have made with [certain] factions within the government.

That's certainly one possibility, but that ain't the way I heard it. What I heard was that ETs have been meeting with top echelon people in the military industrial complex. But when the ETs realized they were dealing with a cabal (those "certain factions") of people who did not have humankind's interests at heart and were basically thirsting for new and incredible technology at any cost. That is what I heard was the reason they backed out. But now there's been a change...for the good. I'm sure aliens are neither stupid nor naive about what the government wants. They're no dummies.

Now that power is shifting in Washington toward more transparency and more openness and putting science back as the value it should be, that cabal will, I think, eventually be exposed for what it's been doing without many knowing but paying HUGE amounts of money and no records are kept and you never would have known. I think Obama is going to put much more pressure on the military to come clean.

The billions for black projects that needn't have been black but should have been completely open to all public scientific scrutiny - how much of that money could have been used to aid Americans? Doesn't that annoy you just a tad? That's going to be really good and really bad and I say bad because I can only imagine how pissed people will be knowing "they" have kept this to and for themselves. How dare they! That will, somehow, be offset by the good part. The benefits from the technology that will be disgorged will amaze and delight. Can you imagine what would happen to the middle east if the use of fossil fuels went the way of the dodo along with nuclear power plants? Dust to dust. Ashes to ashes. Along with the oil companies and big pharma, who will also be out of business and this will usher in a completely new era. If we can only survive until that happens.

People in many religions are told NOT to explore exactly what the soul can do.. That is one thing I have always wondered about, because if we have the thing, why not use it... Kind of like keeping a fancy automobile in the garage in my thinking...

Because I think those who are enlightened can't be as easily sold a lot of snake oil easily. Nobody our Lady of M.I.T. would be interested in that kind of following LOL.

Why don't they come down and play with us?

Probably for the same reason Madonna doesn't do a concert for you in your garage LOL. Just kiddin'.

I think the main problem is, rather than create utter chaos by landing at your local strip mall and saying "hi" is that they first want to meet with those earthlings from all contries whose representatives really represent their people. When they, for a short period of time, did engage the cabal, they soon realized they couldn't be trusted and did not speak, in any way, for the people. We're the ones they want to get to know...not the guys wearing black suits who don't have identities or faces. So it'll take a little time for them to get with the real leaders and map out a plan that won't freak everybody out...well, most of us LOL...but they will. Personally, I predict it in less than two years for many many reasons. Mark that down on your calendar :)

I think they are more than willing and able to "go public". It's OUR side that doesn't want to spill the beans and for obvious reasons and the cabal is pressuring them not to just yet.

The mathematics required to traverse interstellar space within less than a lifetime would involve a physics beyond that which we possess

Uh, no kidding. That's kind of a given. And, to you, that means no one else has it? *cough cough*.... On the intellectual evolutionary scale, we're probably less than a thousandth of what they are. We're relative ants or****oaches. But hey, we are sentient and we do build a neat sports car once in a while. I guess that's saying something.

The rest is disinformation, science fiction and time-wasting nonsense...I'd go so far as to say lunatic ravings.

Of course you would. Fortunately, your opinions don't alter reality one whit.

I have yet to hear how anyone can propose how beings that can warp space-time would allow themselves to get shot down or "oops" crash into a field while zooming cows to mutilate.

Why does mankind perpetually seek and sometimes expect perfection in others and accept such mediocity in themselves? We keep looking for heroes and, one we find them, love to eviscerate them when they show any signs of imperfections. We do it with celebs, politicians, sports figures and aliens alike. They aren't gods. They are just beings. Different kinds of beings from different places. That's all. They aren't perfect. Their technology is, I'm sure, not perfect although you have to admit, it's pretty cool. Everything I've ever heard or read suggests they communicate telepathically because it would take us forever to understand their spoken language (so forget it already with the radio waves SETI; that's so, uh, retro; go look for the money AIG blew. You'll have a better chance of finding that).

I think I read somewhere that Truman was the first president to see a real alien (a small "grey") up close and personal. And when he had that profound experience (he could "feel" the grey was inside his head), that's when the lid got locked down really tight with MAJIC and MK Ultra (Kissinger was or is still in that club or whatever it's current iteration) and the rest is pretty much history. I wonder if Truman needed a quick change of shorts that day. But it's going to pop soon and then....look out. It's going to a hellova ride. But in the end, it's all good. Not to worry.
Joined: 8/30/2006
Msg: 616
Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 3/17/2009 5:57:38 AM
A much needed reality check, fiddler- sadly, one that will likely fall on deaf ears.
Joined: 9/12/2007
Msg: 618
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Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 3/17/2009 12:51:31 PM
Lunar Lander, I like your post.

Says a lot without tipping your hand in any direction.

Main stream propaganda is so tarnished it is tough to know the truth about anything unless a person has first hand experience, and can easily define what that experience is. It is that not being able to fully define first hand the truth of statements, and separating a persons own ability to understand what they know as truth and reality.

Example, 15 yrs ago my daughter and I were traveling from Eugene, Or to Portland on I-5 in a large Uhaul van, it was typical clouded over fall, and around 8 pm or so. As we drove alone the main power wires we seen this hue of blue/green that surround the wire with white electrical tendrils that pushed/pulled (?) the blue/green hue quickly along the lines just a head of the van.

After about 70 miles the hi power wires went across the hwy, and out across the wires over land.

My dad said it sounded like St Elmos fire, the description I read doesn't describe that, but nobody else has ever given an explanation as to what it was, even people that work on high power lines...

If I were illogical I could think it was some magical power between us and the lines, because we have never seen that again, or can figure it was some electrical phenomenon that not many people see. I chose the second myself.

In your Lotto ticket anecdote I think most people are more aware it is a possibility, and the odds of winning are displayed somewhere on the ticket, or store case that sells them. Those who are serious players are more deluded into believing the "probability" part.

I completely agree the bombardment of noise, emf, microwaves, radio waves, et al, they really do foul up the mind, and its ability to think clearly. I have noticed that some people actually find it hard to handle relative quiet, because they have conditioned themselves to deal with the constant noise.

As I have asked many times, for those of us who are looking for facts, it is hard to find first hand knowledge, or sources that aren't tainted with personal opinion. In my schooling I have taken several psychology courses, because I have a need to understand the thinking of people, and how to deal with different personalities, culture, mixed with illness, or mental issues.

One thing I have noticed that some of these course did fall backs on theories from the 1950's, this I found troubling because this is 2009, haven't we advanced much in the realm of human behavior since the 1950's???
Joined: 9/12/2007
Msg: 620
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Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 3/17/2009 5:02:27 PM
Malc that is what I think too...

For all we know these ancient aliens planet got sucked up in a black hole before they could get back, all considering the travel time... AT THE SAME TIME, theories of worm holes have been around for almost 100 yrs, yet at this time is not something that can be proven.

If a suns life span is about long as our own, and we know that suns in these other solar systems are dimming and imploding, then who is to say that the God from these ancient times is NOT really dead. That was the question on a well known new mag in the 70's.

I find it interesting that people say they believe in the science process, but only believe what they believe has been proven. They discount anything that to their satisfaction is NOT proven, and want to belittle those who don't think that way.

I have found their are so many plausible theories, that it would take the next several thousand years to fully study each and prove or debunk each one... I'm content in believing in plausibility, and have no problem thinking so. If someone wants to say other wise, meh ok, just don't tell me I am required to change my mind...
Joined: 4/2/2008
Msg: 621
Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 3/17/2009 5:52:24 PM

Ever hear the audio tape of The Rendlesham Forest Incident ?

Very famous incident. There have been several recreations on TV of what was seen that day. Pretty amazing. If you remember that incident, you'll remember what the "debunkers" said that light was - a lighthouse miles from the sight. They actually were stupid enough to say that. When's the last time you heard of a lighthouse moving around in the sky. LMAO. Too funny.

We are bombarded with so much propaganda from mainstream media that we no longer have any clue which is real and what is abstract. They certainly do a wonderful job of keeping us in fear and quite divided.

They do that very well too. Divide and conquer.

We simply have been conditioned not to think and reason.

Now, if we thought and reasoned, we wouldn't be good little worker ants would we.
Joined: 12/9/2007
Msg: 625
Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 3/18/2009 1:28:09 PM
Actually.. Darwin never renounced his own theory. That is christian propaganda. And even if he did, that doesn't remove all the evidence that we have for evolution. We have tons of evidence but creationists like you refuse to acknowledge the evidence for what it is. You tell us, "Oh that's not enough evidence." Well, what IS enough evidence for evolution? Do we have to create an entirely new species via evolution in front of your very eyes? Dude, you are a victim of propaganda.
Joined: 8/21/2005
Msg: 627
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Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 3/18/2009 7:20:36 PM

and also I never said I was creationist !!

No, quite true. You've said quite the contrary.

Looks like a duck, quacks like a's a duck. You quote creationist credo better than many creationists. The only difference is that you substitute aliens-with-no-evidence for god-with-no-evidence.

I think you'll find madfiddler your ' real ' world of science is littered with jumping to conclusions, declaration of facts, hoaxs and hidden artifacts that puts everyone else in the shade.

So you're saying that they're human? And somehow inferior to pseudoscientists and preachers of faith who have as much chance of commiting the same sins, but STARTING with no evidence and pursuing a purely fallacious line of reasoning? Guess which one is a more reliable source of truth and consistent explanations.

Sitchin studied them in detail as well as the whole region of the middle east for decades, a man of considerable intellect that you are in no position to call a crack pot !

Dealt with, repeatedly. Sitchin has no credentials and hasn't done a fraction of the study that many others have. There are literally hundreds of thousands of translated Sumerian artifacts, and the translation was made far easier because the Sumerians left MULTILINGUAL DICTIONARIES.

How can Sitchin be more "correct" about what the Sumerians wrote, than the Sumerians themselves? I've provided links to these sources. The fact that you still hold Sitchin to be even reputable is remarkable and only emphasizes your own unwillingness to consider hard evidence. Don't let facts, evidence, or logic get in the way of your faith :)

Meanwhile you hang on to a theory by Darwin, he himself renounced !!,

Fallacy one - this is a lie, pure and simple.
Fallacy two - Darwin's beliefs are irrelevant. The theory is essentially universally supported, by more evidence every day. Believing the theory to be accurate is a logical consequence of viewing voluminous evidence, not having faith in the originator of it.

Now....if only we could talk some sence into you about ET life

Easily done. Show me one of three things:

Alien body, life form, or genetic material.
The possibility to get from point A to point B, many times faster than light can.
Definitive signs of non-human intelligence elsewhere in the universe.

You may note that I believe intelligent alien life exists, and MIGHT even be common. I think that life is more or less an inevitable outcome of complex chemical conditions. There's just no evidence whatsoever that any such life exists. Anywhere, much less anywhere nearby.

The entire concept begins with an assumption without proof.
That assumption is cited as a cause for multiple other assumptions without proof.
Meanwhile, explanations which are compatible with REAL concepts for which there IS proof...are thrown out because they're "improbable". As Kirk pointed out in more elaborate fashion, unlikely WITH proof is always more likely than anything for which there is NO proof. When there's proof of non-terrestrial life of ANY kind, SOMEwhere, the story will becaome slightly more plausible. Only slightly. Plausibility is determined by objective factors, not a willingness to believe. When the objective factors unanimously refute the concept, it's not plausible, however believable one might find it.

Human artifacts have been unearth that are hundreds of millions of years old.

Evidence? Someone saying it's so does not make it so.

In Theory if I buy a lotto ticket I can win the lottery, but once I buy a lotto ticket it is no longer a theory but a probability.

Right. And with no alien body, no DNA, no evidence of life anywhere but Earth, the ticket hasn't been purchased. Origin of human life by evolution, explanation of UFOs and other phenomena as human or Earth-bound in origin is "probable" - we have the register tape for those tickets.

it will done with our Pineal gland
perhaps they will unlock that door as to how
we can get full potential of the pineal
maybe its something as simple as a certain vibration seqence to activate it
I do believe we have yet to tap into the "true" purpose of us having that gland

Why would anyone think so? It does what it does. There's no reason to conclude it has functions other than those which are already known to be compatible with pineal anatomy, endocrine function, or correlation with body function. This argument doesn't even have a correlation to work with, much less a causal link.

but it seems they know how to" activate " it
as they did with President Truman and many others.

We're missing four important things here:
1)effect - exactly what about Truman was so special?
2)correlation - what about Truman correlated with pineal action more than with anything else?
3)causation - if this correlation existed, what evidence is there that pineal action was a cause, and not a coincidence or simply a second effect?
4)cause - what caused the reputed pineal activity which reputedly caused a reputedly correlated reputedly special characteristic of Truman and others?

See how many times I've said "repute"? Each one is point for which their is no evidence presented. It's a house...or skyscraper...of cards. Just ONE out of place, and it all comes down.

Everything I've ever heard or read suggests they communicate telepathically because it would take us forever to understand their spoken language

Or because there's no evidence, and telepathy is undetectable, so you can make any claim you wish. Argumentum ad ignorantium, or, "since we don't know, I can make up any explanation I like".

I think it's fairly safe to assume that if "they" had ill intentions regarding the human race, it would have been over for us a long long time ago.

Just thought I'd pause to agree.

Thank you for such a thoughtful and lucid explanation for it all. We all feel so enlightened.

The evidence is equal.

Because I think those who are enlightened can't be as easily sold a lot of snake oil easily

Generally speaking, they've already broken the bank.

I think the main problem is, rather than create utter chaos by landing at your local strip mall and saying "hi" is that they first want to meet with those earthlings from all contries whose representatives really represent their people. When they, for a short period of time, did engage the cabal, they soon realized they couldn't be trusted and did not speak, in any way, for the people. We're the ones they want to get to know...not the guys wearing black suits who don't have identities or faces. So it'll take a little time for them to get with the real leaders and map out a plan that won't freak everybody out...well, most of us LOL...but they will. Personally, I predict it in less than two years for many many reasons. Mark that down on your calendar

Is there ANY part of this for which there is ANY tangible evidence? There's that house of cards again.

When's the last time you heard of a lighthouse moving around in the sky. LMAO. Too funny.

I've lived near the flight paths of at least two airports. The lighthouse doesn't move, but the light sure does. Try some simple math:
a 50cm diameter light rotates at 4 RPM [semi-random but reasonable number]. There is low and broken or uneven cloud.

At a distance of 5 km, how fast does the light appear to move across the cloud? If the cloud is broken, the light will appear to jump. If viewed parallel to the beam, a break of many kilometers will be "jumped" instantly.

At a distance of 5km, if the light disperses 2 degrees to either side, how large does the spot appear?

Any iregularities in the cloud or atmospheric particles will alter the apparent shape and speed of the spot. It will be completely silent, barring any other noises in the area. Any airport or other searchlight within miles can cause these effects. Any smog, fog, or cloud can make the effect harder to make out from any distance, increasing the "U" factor in "UFO".

Now repeat all this with a simple handheld spotlight. A 10 million cp light is cheap. You could even tint the lens or add a cut-out shape over the lens. You can rotate it at 60 rpm or more, and you can reverse it just as quickly. From miles away, you could easily have an unidentified light "moving" at impossible speeds in the sky.

To quote...

LMAO. Too funny.
Joined: 9/12/2007
Msg: 631
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Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 3/19/2009 2:48:34 PM
It is asked out of those of us who are willing to believe in the PLAUSIBILITY to show proof, we have... Frog take a watch at ancient aliens... See all the really interesting things that have NO explanations with the exception of what these figures clearly state.

If there were NO scuba divers or astronauts at the time, then why did civilizations all over the world depict such figures... OH I KNOW, it came out of their head... Yet it took 5000 yrs for give or take a hundred years to come up with scuba diving, and space ships, ships that look like the discovery, and helmets with coverings...

So where did these nifty ideas come from???

Things are hidden from the media all the time, those who know can say things, but it doesn't take that big of a choir that are nay sayers, saying you don't have enough proof.

This is a double sided defense, in which I want to know what makes Sitchins so incompetent? I want to know how Von Danikan is so invalid in his research?

I want to know what makes one side, with its own theories constantly being challenged, tossed and hidden, more logical than there being a blend of both.

What makes carved tools something that more intelligent beings couldn't come up with IF they didn't have any other means to build a nice Buck knife, or other tools that could be used by some one above a grunt mentality.

there is really no proof, only speculation.. I think for kicks and giggles, I will be buried with carved wooden bowls, and stone tools, so when I am dug up 500 or so years from now I can reallly fVck with the minds of scientists...Bahhhaaaaa. Maybe talk my family and friends into the same thing and really mess with the head of scientist...

Maybe if the world falls to shit in 2012, and people have to start back to a more privative time I won't even have to worry about it being a joke, but rather a fact of life...

What ever the case, there isn't one of on this thread that has the inside scoops so to speak, and only the unfolding of time will do that...
Joined: 8/21/2005
Msg: 633
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Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 3/19/2009 6:45:29 PM

so when did we humans get so smart , and depend totally on our science community to find and know all the facts?

Since 1988?

The materials and methods were there to use. The fact no-one did them has no bearing on the validity of science. Your anecdote is meaningless. Scientists, preachers, and crackpots are all human and all subject to similar flaws. That scientists might have such flaws has no bearing on the scientific methodology. More particularly, corporate decisions have no bearing on the scientific method, which happens to be the ONLY reliable method of determining cause and effect relationships.

Bugs, by the way, existed long before flowers, and plants existed long before bugs, and bugs ARE animals. I've kinda lost sight of what your point might have been there. No, wait...I get it... it just could have been better worded.

I cant show you any of those one can

That's the key flaw. These apparently common and interacting beings manage to get involved in human affairs, crash their ships, fly all over the place...and not even leave a trace of evidence in the hands of an advocate. It doesn't add up. It's not much to ask, and any one of those three things would do a decent job of at least establishing the possibility.

but there are many reports from creadable witnesses who have seen these things

If there were any evidence, they'd be credible. Until then, it's an appeal to authority or appeal to popularity or appeal to numbers fallacy. If we have proof of Nibiruans, a claim for Zeta reticulans is credible. Lacking evidence for ANYthing of an extraterrestrial nature, there's no way to actually establish credibility on the subject.

I dont need proof to believe what I know

But you kinda need proof to prove it ;)

I dont need proof that to stand in front of a steamroller is a bad idea

But the proof and the logic exist. In fact, as I was digging through my inherited Health and Safety files this afternoon, I found an interesting slide show about how NOT to unload a Cat tractor. I wasn't really expecting to see a bent and spindled former-driver when the machine was lifted :S
*edit* found it online:
proof enough? :>

I dont need proof that the sky is going to blue tomarrow

But the proof and the logic exist.

I dont need proof that if I stick a knife into my heart that I will die

But the proof and the logic exist.

I dont need proof that if I grab a small bear cub...mommas going to be pissed

But the proof and the logic exist.

did you demand proof that your parents are indeed your parents ?

No, but the proof and the logic exist.

See a trend here?

You can believe aliens created us, you can believe they visit...but the proof is lacking and the logic is fallacious. You need better analogies. They rather resemble the comparisons between "love" [an emotion with no "existence"] and "God" [an entity with reputed abilities to directly act on visible and invisible reality]. Apples and oranges. Or maybe apples and quartz.

we have the ability to just know somethings in life without proof

Frequently, the proof contradicts what we "know", which kinda calls to question whether such knowing is real or valid.

mine says that not all the witnesses who experienced sightings are crackpots

Seeing things doesn't make one a crackpot. What's in question is explanations for what is seen. There is no shortage of possible [or proven] real world explanations, and additional explanations based on illusion or a variety of tricks of the mind or senses. I don't think it becomes "crackpot" until pure and deliberate fiction or delusion enters into the equation. That's a tad harder to prove, except when it contradicts the actual evidence. This seems to happen often enough, though certainly not a fraction as often as some would like to claim.

Concluding that explanations are fantastic is a far cry from suggesting the claimant is a crackpot. Personally, I wouldn't even claim Sitchin is a crackpot, because I don't know if he actually BELIEVES his claims. He could just be a liar making a buck! :>

Your assertion that they were lights, which begs the answer to the questions above, is no more credible an explanation than they were a craft from an advanced civilization.

I made no such assertion. Read the quote to which I was responding. I was pointing out that a lighthouse does not need to fly to create the effect of a an unexplained fast-moving light in the sky.

In my view, UFO's can be explained as alien civilization quite well, and I would argue, with less assumptions than alternative explanations.

This is false. It requires assumptions for which there is no hard evidence. The flying spaghetti monster is equal as an explanation. As has been said several times, improbable but backed by established explanations, is ALWAYS more probable than "backed by no evidence". If aliens were so much more likely, their existence would ALSO be much easier to prove.

Unless of course you refuse to accept documented sightings completely

Anecdotes are anecdotes. 400 years ago, many would have claimed angels, demons, or fairies as a cause. The support for those hypotheses is equal: none. If you want to establish a "cause" you must first establish that the cause exists or is likely to. No-one has done that.

If there were NO scuba divers or astronauts at the time, then why did civilizations all over the world depict such figures

Post hoc reinterpretations in no way establish that the two things are the same. Modern concepts are being used to reinterpret historical ones, without any evidence that they are one and the same. I've seen more than a few cases where the evidence is AGAINST this, but the fantasy literature provides ONLY the portion of the evidence which will support its claims. Take the classic example of Egyptian Apache helicopters. The pseudoscientists tend to leave out the evidence of multiple heiroglyphs being broken, patched, and overlain, and they carefully provide either a low quality image or one which has been "enhanced" to show what they wish to show. Show us that some ancient civilization HAD diving apparatus, or that they "literally" knew of it. Ancient characitures without any corroborating literature or physical artifacts are not proof of anything. I DO watch and read such material, but I am also far more familiar with evidence-based material. Evidence trumps no-evidence, and I'm simply not gullible enough to believe anything which is contradicted by reality while being unsupported by anything else.

in which I want to know what makes Sitchins so incompetent?

Cited and re-cited and re-re-cited. Links to major projects on Sumerian artifacts are listed in one of the other threads. several hundred thousand artifacts have been translated, including multilingual dictionaries written by the ancients. Sitchen's translations depend on translating specific materials in ways which contradict ancient dictionaries. He makes things up to support his books and lectures.

I haven't read von Daniken in a long time, though it was interesting reading. I'm sure I still have Chariots of the Gods somewhere. Regarding him, I can only say a few things from memory: First, Persis says he doesn't believe his own conjectures. She knows him, I don't, but the claim is consistent with the nature of his writings. Anyone can write fancifully about real artifacts, if they choose to omit empirical evidence about those same artifacts, and there's certainly a market to do so. Second, although I can no longer recall the source, Chariots of the Gods refers back to another source, which in turn cites a real "witness". A witness who is on the record as saying "I said no such thing". Kinda like writing a resume - lie all you want, but eventually someone will check. Third, having read both his work, and a variety of actual archaeological and anthropological materials on the same subjects...the real evidence simple offers nothing definitive to support him, and many times provides evidence which contradicts. Science 3, equivocal 2, Aliens 0.

more logical than there being a blend of both

There's simply nothing in support of aliens. It's all anecdotal at best, and multiplied conjectures at worst.

there is really no proof, only speculation

There's abundant proof in support of explanations which do not involve aliens.
There is no proof and abundant conjecture in favor of aliens.

Joined: 8/21/2005
Msg: 635
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Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 3/19/2009 7:56:55 PM
Soooo...anecdote, PLUS logic, PLUS hard evidence AGAINST aliens? Or at least against the claims of one of the original proponents? :o
Joined: 9/12/2007
Msg: 641
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Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 3/19/2009 11:56:22 PM

By the same token, one should not be automatically accepting of all possible conclusions. When we have tools at our disposal which we know work reliably we should make use of them to the best of our ability to attempt to determine the truth of what we are seeking.

Who said any of us did???

Who said we just woke up one day, seen a sitchin article and said, well that is it then, this is the truth, and there is no other....

Perhaps you should do a little reading of each of our threads... We each have reason to believe what we do and there is a little more than some magical thinking that has went behind it...

YES we have had to deal with one nasty poster that likes to dispute any and everything that a plausibility believer says, however that doesn't mean our information is less scientific or viable than the next...

As I said, I believe there is a blend... There is a LOT of evidence to support that, thus it makes it PLAUSIBLE... None of us, ok maybe one or two say it is definitely a fact, but the rest say plausible, because that IS the subject, IS IT PLAUSIBLE...

Basic reasoning, for one, basic investigation ability, logic, common sense. These we do not discard for the convenience of trying to reach a desired conclusion that supports our pet theory...and yet we see that occurring from some of the "true believers" here. That's called having a mind so open, your brains fall out.

Mad, besides knocking yourself out in trying to tell those who feel it is plausible, your do a 180 saying you never said it wasn't plausible.. WHICH IS IT???

Most points you make are that you think those who believe have their brains falling out, then you say I never said there weren't aliens...

Well sunshine, my brains haven't fallen out, and I don't have to take a toke to believe anything... I have my own reasons which I have stated prior that give me cause to think this is PLAUSIBLE... Do I know for a fact... NO, do you know for a fact we climbed out of some primordial soup, and ta da, we have life off all different types, and only one so freaking bright that they have created all sorts of things, including mass chaos, and earth destruction... Great brilliant species.. So brilliant that we have to be told if we keep heaping our shit all over the place the earth is gonna stink and die...

Hell scientists are divided on that as well.... You can use all the fossil fuel you want, kill anything you want, remove all the plants and animals you want, and things will be all hunky dunky.. It is total BS that global warming will have a negative effect on earth, and we are naturally heating up...
Joined: 2/21/2007
Msg: 643
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Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 3/20/2009 12:45:44 AM

then given the fact they're intellectually evolved to the point they can master space/time, I think it's fair to say that a few thousand years (since the dawn of man) really isn't that long of a time period for them
So its a given that these imaginary beings control space and time? The dawn of man was a few thousand years ago?
Joined: 7/29/2007
Msg: 647
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Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 3/20/2009 8:08:34 AM
First correcting the subject line to 'procreated' vs created, since the body of the first entry indicates an awareness that the aliens only procreated via test tube babies.

Second I can imagine that some questionable scientist will test this theory by creating a test tube baby ... several likely ... with the combo of current human and current non-human primate. If a reasonable distribution of offspring creates offsprings that are genetically biased to the 'human' chromosones then it is possible for the story to be true if there are aliens. It becomes another unprovable theory with the leaning towards being true as the scientific probability is that we are not the only planet of our type which has intelligent life in our form.

The very timelines we know today for the existence of humans long before the estimated biblical dates demonstrate that the Adam and Eve story are just a story some parent made up at some time to answer some child's question. However, none of them ... even big bang ... demonstrate how the first atom was created. All we know is procreation ... not creation. Evolution shows how intelligent design continues to adapt and evolve... but doesn't tell us what had the power to start it all.
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