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 nexthyme
Joined: 9/12/2007
Msg: 45
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Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?Page 2 of 53    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41)
It has been scientifically found that this earth has been made over 4 times now. We phuch it up again, then it will be a 5th.

There has been proof of things here and there, and even the typical ALien space ship designs on the walls of cavemen, in Mayan and Axtec Designs on their temples, as well as on paintings. The ones that did these paintings, did they think they had a joke going on???

I have to admit lately I have been trying to get my mind wrapped around the "string theory", or Membrane Theory, or parallel universes... Aliens??? Just another walk through a plausible explination for some of the odd balls out there, LOL
 Phoebus2k9
Joined: 3/15/2008
Msg: 46
Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 12/1/2008 9:02:57 AM

No, it means they *have no evidence


Well this is what i mean. We do not have any evidence at all either way. As some might say...they have it but wont allow the average person person to see it. I dont really care either way. Once the truth does come out that is all that will matter. So all this speculation about this or that will be out the window. So who knows if it will ever happen....but all this does lead us to did aliens make us? well 1st we have to make sure they are acutally even here or been here ? as the last poster had mention cave designs. There have been some and even in a museum that was found by Zecharia Sitchin. I know i know ...but you know what ..he did not crave it....So where did it come from and what era?

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sitchin/esp_sitchin_13.htm
 desertrhino
Joined: 11/30/2007
Msg: 48
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Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 12/1/2008 10:04:56 AM
Well, the theory of that artifact being a fake is supported by the fact that it was "discovered" just a few years after "2001: A Space Odyssey" was released, and the ribbed suit and boots on a human form match very closely the depictions of fictional space suits in that movie. Cross that with a Mercury space module, move the Atlas engines up a bit, and you have your space alien.

http://www.cinemotions.net/data/films/0003/28/2/photo-2001--L-Odyssee-de-l-Espace-2001-A-Space-Odyssey-1968-4.jpg
http://www.kansastravel.org/03cosmosphere3.jpg
http://www.spaceline.org/rocketsum/images/043.jpg

Wonder why they didn't test what material comprises the carving. Plaster and marble dust is pretty easy to identify... but if Sitchin knows better than actually trained researchers in the field... Sorry, if Sitchin told me the sky was blue, I'd look up to check before agreeing. He's not exactly what you'd call a credible source.

Besides, look at pictures of REAL space suits. Not one rib on the more modern ones. The only ones that have significant ribs or ribbing are the ones from cheap comic books of the '50s and '60s. *shrug* Maybe aliens are just not as advanced as we are in materials and engineering, and they need ribbed-rubber suits to have flexibility.
 Phoebus2k9
Joined: 3/15/2008
Msg: 49
Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 12/1/2008 10:29:04 AM
That is what i was wondering like is this old or what ? like why was there not testing done on it if any at all ? i know i heard of it being fake but is there any articles or anything info on this at all.

one thing thoe....about this is ....he found it in a museum which he had heard was not showing it on display but if it was fake why would they bother keeping it ? they had taken it from someone who was leaving on a flight. Why would they bother taking it or even keeping at museum ?

what is the answer to that ?
 Beaugrand®™©
Joined: 3/24/2008
Msg: 51
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Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 12/2/2008 6:58:05 PM
This thread reminds me of the "Smoke Theory of Electronics," which is:


There is no such thing as electricity; electronic devices are powered by smoke- when the smoke gets out, they quit working.

Goofy, like the alien origin supposition, but it kinda, sorta works.
 Jiperly
Joined: 8/30/2006
Msg: 52
Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 12/2/2008 9:54:43 PM
>>>Well this is what i mean. We do not have any evidence at all either way.

What are you talking about??

Does Mars have life on it? If not,is that not evidence? Does Venus have life on it? If not, is that not evidence?

Evidence for you isn't proof that life cannot appear on other planets- otherwise, you would accept that every single time we see a body in space without life on it as proof that extraterrestial life does not exist(which, to date, is everything in the known universe, sans Earth). No, evidence to you seems to be proof that you are right- otherwise, there is no proof.

Not to mention, if you honestly believe there is no evidence for either stance, then why are you taking a stance at all?

>>> Once the truth does come out that is all that will matter.

You believe in a "Truth" while announcing there is no evidence that it is true?

>>>as the last poster had mention cave designs.

I believe they are either cavemen being creative(I drew a blue dog when I was 10- does that mean hundreds of years from that people will conclude that dogs were blue?), or a man with a career around space creatures interpreting facts that support his career. Both are equally likely.
 nexthyme
Joined: 9/12/2007
Msg: 54
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Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 12/3/2008 7:01:10 AM

believe they are either cavemen being creative(I drew a blue dog when I was 10- does that mean hundreds of years from that people will conclude that dogs were blue?), or a man with a career around space creatures interpreting facts that support his career. Both are equally likely.


Jiperly, are there dogs??? If so then as a 10 yr old creativity may very well be a logical step. However if there were no such thing, and you drew a dog, then one would pause and wonder where you seen that creature to draw it.

In the cave drawings, as well as the different religious paintings with alien crafts in them, there was no such mechanical things that flew. Therefore once again one should pause and wonder where their idea came from.

There used to be the "blue Book investigations. Thousands of claims had been made and investigated. 700 were listed as unidentified. WHICH if there is 700, that is a pretty high number of space anomalies that didn't make sense, or were identifiable as known from earth.

Many Airmen, and even Navy men will tell you they seen a LOT of weird stuff, however since they valued their position they kept their mouths shut. Becoming a flier is NOT easy, and stating they seen something could cost them their wings; it isn't worth it to them.

Oddly the Russian find this subject more interesting, and worth investigating.

I don't know about truth, but I do know about opinions, and truths based on experience. It may not be YOUR truth, but for others it is THEIR truth, and even though they may not have a skinny grey alien to shake your hand, doesn't mean they don't have experience of something unexplainable.

 Jiperly
Joined: 8/30/2006
Msg: 57
Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 12/3/2008 10:06:59 PM
>>>However if there were no such thing, and you drew a dog, then one would pause and wonder where you seen that creature to draw it.

Alright- lets see these pictures. I cannot conclusively if I'm just shooting in the dark, but if you're talking about the generic "Fire in the Sky" pictures, then there are plenty of examples;

Comets
Astroids
The Sun
Lunar Eclipse
An unsually large number of birds
An extra violent lightning storm
depictions of early concepts of Gods

People see those pictures as UFO's not because they are right, but because these people see what they want to. It neither proves them right nor their interpretation of the drawing right, nor does it prove that the Caveman was trying to draw space creatures or that they thought it'd be neat to throw a fun little circle in with their drawings.

>>> there was no such mechanical things that flew

What about these pictures imply they are mechanical?

>>>Thousands of claims had been made and investigated. 700 were listed as unidentified.

Wait wait wait.....

So you're saying that out of thousands of claims, only hundreds could not be explained?

So if there was 5000 claims, and 700 were still unexplained by the end, that means that means that a mere 14% of the people who thought they saw aliens actually saw something that could not be explained(not that they saw aliens either- simply that we could not explain what they saw). At the maxium your vague statement of "thousands" means that less than 1% of 1% of 1% people experienced something that could not be explained-Even going with the minium of 2000 only 1 in 3 people who claimed to have seen aliens experienced something that could not be simply explained.

So you yourself are admiting that the vast majority of claims are false- that people misinterpreted their surroundings- but still claim that its a large number?

Moreover, with all our understanding of the universe and our place in it, you admit that a vast majority misinterpret the situation, but that a caveman, with no understanding of the universe at all, couldn't possibly have misinterpreted his surroundings?

>>>Many Airmen, and even Navy men will tell you they seen a LOT of weird stuff

Indeed- like all people, they have the capicity to misinterpret their situation.

>>>Oddly the Russian find this subject more interesting, and worth investigating.

Care to elaborate?

And its my understanding a large number of UFO sightings were covered up because they were not alien craft- they were secret aircrafts. I'd imagine pre-wall collapse that the Russians would be interested in these planes, and thus would show interest in UFO's in general because of this.

>>>It may not be YOUR truth, but for others it is THEIR truth

Thats not how Truth works- truths cannot change from person to person- if person A says 2+2=4 and person B says 2+2=7, they cannot both be telling the truth- one is right, and one is wrong- thats how truth works- its objective, and is removed from opinion.

>>>doesn't mean they don't have experience of something unexplainable.

I agree- and thats exactly my point- they cannot explain it doesn't mean what they experienced is true- it means they do not fully understand what is going on.

---

>>>but got lost in a space time warp ... so they couldn't get back in the right time ...

Great story, but where is the proof? What- they travelled back in time to Earth, lost all tech, all memories, all tools, and reverted back to a feral state? How would that make any sense? And how does that explain the fossil record of humans evolving from lesser creatures?
 Phoebus2k9
Joined: 3/15/2008
Msg: 58
Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 12/4/2008 9:08:04 AM
See the problem with this thread is.....in order to be created by something, we have to prove that they exist. Now to be creadted by aliens we would have to show they are even here. So that is why i do see this thread going the way that it is.

http://www.stantonfriedman.com/

this man here with above link been doing studies on subject for years. now is this man out of his FUC-king mind or


Stanton T. Friedman received BSc and MSc degrees in physics from the University of Chicago in 1955 and 1956. He was employed for 14 years as a nuclear physicist for such companies as GE, GM, Westinghouse, TRW Systems, Aerojet General Nucleonics, and McDonnell Douglas on such advanced, classified, eventually cancelled, projects as nuclear aircraft, fission and fusion rockets, and nuclear powerplants for space.


So is this BS as well ....

Alot of credible ppl have come forward on this subject but because of the nature of this topic they loose crediblity. So i dunno i guess its really up to each person. I agree the truth is the truth no matter how you try and spin it.
 Jiperly
Joined: 8/30/2006
Msg: 61
Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 12/16/2008 4:42:50 PM
>>>it doesn't matter if a million sightings are proven false and only six are true .

Neither of us said a Million were false while 6 are true- She said 700 were never explained- that doesn't mean that they were proven true- simply that were not explained.

In order to prove that these peoples unexplained stories about aliens were true, she'd have to prove that aliens are, in fact, true.

Furthermore, my statement was moreso on how shes maniplulating the stats to reach her preconceived conclusion- she claimed 700 out of thousands was, and I quote, "pretty high number of space anomalies that didn't make sense", but if you compare that to the failure rate, at the very highest it means two-thirds of alien stories have a reasonable explaination, and at its lowest, its incredibly rare that people are unable to have a reasonable explaination.

And you're saying I'm smoke screening- the very evidence she used prove alien sightings are common can be used to explain that its far, far more likely to be someone misinterpreting the situation- I used her own information to prove that, and solely because she never even bothered to do the math.

>>>and before you refute the cave paintings you should actually look at some pictures of them then you might sound like you know what your talking about.

I admitted that. I asked for specific examples. I've received none.

But thats not to say I've never heard of them before- I've seen people claim this before, looked at the evidence, and found people interpreting things to support their pre-conceived assumptions.

All I really can do is challenge them on the basis of that, since when asked for what they were refering to, I've received none.
 nexthyme
Joined: 9/12/2007
Msg: 62
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Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 12/16/2008 6:36:46 PM
When it comes to an abstract subject as do aliens exist, IT IS the truth left to each person.

Just as is their a God?

Is their a Heaven?

Do Ghost exist?

DO we have a soul?

Do animals have souls?

Is there such thing as Santa?

Et. Al.

You want to say that 14%, or 700 claims is nothing... Give me zero, then you have a point, however 700 claims that can't be defined as explainable events is a sizable number to suggest there is more out there than we know...

Apparently you don't, but that is your own personal truth... For those who have reseached and have seen things that were truly unexplainable, we are allowed our own truth as well
 Jiperly
Joined: 8/30/2006
Msg: 63
Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 12/16/2008 7:40:07 PM
>>> When it comes to an abstract subject as do aliens exist, IT IS the truth left to each person.

This isn't a subjective subject. Its either they exist or not. There is room to argue whether or not they exist, yes, but you cannot agree that both possiblities are true- we cannot possibly be in a universe where Aliens both exist and do not exist, because that is a contradiction.

I could argue that circles do not exist- does the fact that I believe they do not make it a subjective subject, capible of being true eitherway? You could go to the jungles of Brazil, and ask the tribes people if a man named Barrack Obama exists- if they say no, does that mean that its entirely possible that the President Elect doesn't exist?

>>>Give me zero, then you have a point

....

Wha....

I'm not entirely sure how to respond to that......I mean, if zero people experienced something they cannot explain and attribute to aliens......then would there be no one to report it......which then, there would be no point to make at all.....because there would be nothing to debate.....

I just........wha...?

Not to even begin to mention a claim doesn't make a fact- the claim is always under scrunity, even if we were certain aliens existed.

>>>however 700 claims that can't be defined as explainable events is a sizable number

I'm still waiting for what "thousands" means- after all, as I explained, 14% is frankly an arbitrarily acheived number based on the claim that "thousands" of claims were made.

You know what- screw it- since you're not going to answer that question, I'll do it- according to Wikipedia, there were 12,618 reports made. Of this, 701 of these reports were found to defy detailed analysis. That means slightly less and 6% of recorded sightings were either misinterpretations or outright hoaxes. Using the very information that you presented to this fourm, that means that if 100 people were to come into this fourm and claim to have seen aliens, only 6 could actually not have a logical explaination.

How is that in any description a "sizeable" number?

We can keep going- lets assume that of the 12,618 people, twice as many never reported what they saw- and the same number of instances of unexplainable events occured- that means 37,854 people claimed to have seen aliens, which would mean that 2100 people had a legitmate claim that cannot be explained. Compare this to the general population(which, at the time Blue Book ended, would be approx 201 Million), and that means 1% of 1% of the population has a legitmate claim that cannot be explained. That means if every 1 person who has a claim that cannot be explained, nearly 1000 people do not.

This is what you call sizeable?

Not even mentioning that theres no evidence to support the idea that each claim was only done by a single person, as there could be a person with multiple reports, all found either false or inexplictable, but since there is no way to prove it, I attribute it in your favour and assume all were done by a single person only.
 nexthyme
Joined: 9/12/2007
Msg: 64
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Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 12/16/2008 8:28:04 PM
You asked if it was a "PLAUSIBLE THEORY"... Remember your heading...

The answer according to me, and a heck of a lot of other people is YES...

Your questions is subjective to belief of people. IT is not about fact, because the words "PLAUSIBLE THEORY" does not indicate that it is a definite fact, it is asking if it is plausible...

It say yes, based on experience, and research it is a PLAUSIBLE THEORY... JUST AS your apparent theory that we are one planet out of a zillion that has intelligent life, the other zillion are without some sort of life, or life at all...

Just as plausible, but less likely all considering the number of planets...

Does that make you happy???

For being an internet nut, perhaps you can do a little research in your free time, and figure out what your interest, or obsession with metaphysics, paranormal, et. al. is all about.

As entertaining as all these thoughts are, since nobody has an answer to all questions, especially subjective ones, there is no right or wrong answer JUST THEORY...
 Jiperly
Joined: 8/30/2006
Msg: 65
Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 12/16/2008 9:31:04 PM
>>>Your questions is subjective to belief of people. IT is not about fact, because the words "PLAUSIBLE THEORY" does not indicate that it is a definite fact, it is asking if it is plausible...

#1 I did not make this topic- it is not my question, it is silentassumptions's question- who ironically has been silent in this topic since he last responded 3 hours after oringially posting it.
#2 We are still debating whether or not it IS plausable- you're free to your opinion, and I'm free to mine, and its through discourse and debate that we can come to tangible conclusions.
#3 I'm sorry- so this topic, the belief that aliens altered life on this planet to create intelligent life, is not about facts? Then what the hell are we honestly doing here? How could you possibly debate the plausiblity of anything without understanding what the facts are?

>>>The answer according to me, and a heck of a lot of other people is YES...

You see, I've been challenging your numbers left and right- why would you continue to throw more numbers in my face as if it means something?;

People who believe/Defend the belief:10
People who do not believe/Challenge the belief:14
People who are indecisive/Do not take a clear stance/non sequitur:7

If numbers is all it takes to be right, then guess what.......

>>>JUST AS your apparent theory that we are one planet out of a zillion that has intelligent life, the other zillion are without some sort of life, or life at all...

Theory? Its observed evidence- we've never found evidence of a planet with life, save one. Hell, we haven't found another planet that can substain life- making the assumption that what we need as Earthlings is universal, that is. We don't even remotely understand what causes life to spring forth independently, but you wish to dictate both the possiblity of life and the possiblity of intelligent life- while at the same time wishing to alter our observed rules of astrophsyics based on no evidence- simply that it contradicts a conclusion you acheived with no observation, so our observations must be changed to support your assumptions.

Ontop of that, if we are to agree with the OP, then your belief doesn't explain WHY we need these aliens- if mankind was already learning about fire, about how to survive in tribes, about defending the injuried and keeping them safe- WHY does humanity need the aliens to come down and, over a course of a million years, alter the DNA of humanity to be more intelligent so they can enslave us for 195,000 years before disappearing without a trace?

>>>figure out what your interest, or obsession with metaphysics, paranormal, et. al. is all about.

No real secret- I just disagree, and hate to see people proudly flaunt their ignorance. If people wish to enter a topic about challenging beliefs, then I believe it is fair game to challenge them.

>>>since nobody has an answer to all questions, especially subjective ones, there is no right or wrong answer JUST THEORY...

We must enter the realm of Omniscience in order to be certain of anything? What about yourself- we do not know everything- are you certain you exist?

Seriously- I fear the day I meet a doctor who holds your belief- He kills a patient by removing their lungs- the police ask him why- he says its merely a theory that lungs keep people alive, and until we know everything, they cannot prove he did any wrong doing.
 saintgasoline
Joined: 8/3/2007
Msg: 66
Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 12/16/2008 10:14:03 PM
This is all outlandish nonsense. For instance, you repeat claims about Sumerians having knowledge of extraterrestials and even of Sumerian tablets that show a knowledge of gene splicing and genetics we haven't even mastered today, and there is simply no reason at all to think this. What tablet mentions genetics? What "archeologist" is making such an absurd claim? In all likelihood, what you'll find is some wacko without an actual degree looking at pictures on Sumerian tablets and then interpreting them according to his own biases in a modern historical context and totally ignoring anything at all like historical fact or the scientific method. That is, he'll see what looks like a circle carved into a tablet and say that is a UFO without any reason for saying such a thing. This is not how historians and scientists do their jobs, nor is there ANY precedent for thinking ancient peoples believed in extraterrestials, much less had a working knowledge of genetics!

As for the "sudden upgrade" of homo sapiens from our ancestors, this isn't true, either. Frankly, we don't know the linguistic or intelligence capacities of our most recent ancestors, because fossils do not tell us about such behaviors. What we can know, of course, is that our ancestors may have been tool users, showing signs of intelligence in that regard. We even have evidence from modern chimps that they possess some rudimentary capacity for understanding language and tool use. Chimpanzees have even been demonstrated in test conditions, for example, to have BETTER short-term memories than homo sapien college students! To think that our intellectual capacity is a sudden upgrade in need of explanation that involves aliens is to overstate the case and posit entities for which there is absolutely no good evidence.

All of this talk of aliens and UFOs as we know it is a rather modern invention stemming from the early 1900's. There is no reason to think there is any historical precedent. In the past the mythologies involved demons, angels, gods, and so on. Some pseudo-historians and archealogists have tried to explain this in terms of aliens, but it is simply a bad interpretation of history that ignores the actual historical context to support a rather shoddy hypothesis.

If life does exist somewhere else in the universe, the likelihood that it has the capacity to travel billions of light years, to locate another planet with life, and to come here specifically to stick metallic objects up our asses is extremely low. If we ever do find life, it will be unicellular at best or possibly some sort of space algae, and it will be very, very far away from us. I wouldn't expect much more.
 shmodzilla
Joined: 10/6/2008
Msg: 68
Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 12/17/2008 4:52:37 AM
There is always one HUGE problem i always have with these "aliens made man to mine gold" "nukes 12000 years ago" and such.
Why would a race of aliens so advance they can obviously travel light years through space and create new species of life not be able to create a dam machine that digs?
 SteelCity1981
Joined: 8/16/2005
Msg: 69
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Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 12/17/2008 5:13:11 AM
No disrespect for those that might believe in this theory but this is way off base. I think we have proof that aliens didn't make man as suggested, just by mitochondrial DNA evidence alone. This theory is proposing that aliens made man 60,000 thousand years ago, which would contradict the time span of human existence, considering every human being mitochondrial DNA can be traced to 150,000 years ago.
 nexthyme
Joined: 9/12/2007
Msg: 70
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Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 12/17/2008 6:22:09 AM

No real secret- I just disagree, and hate to see people proudly flaunt their ignorance. If people wish to enter a topic about challenging beliefs, then I believe it is fair game to challenge ]them.


Some of us do these forum for fun, NOT TO bash or insult others.

I DON'T FLAUNT my belief, and as I have repeatedly stated there are theories going in all sorts of directions. Did Aliens alter us, who the hell knows?????? REALLY, the fact is we don't have one freaking clue one way or another.

There are a lot of theorist that point out the paintings, as well as the very large artistic designs in South America, so large they could ONLY be seen from the sky. Cave paintings that had mechanical devices, not birds, not bats, but mechanical designs that didn't exist.

The Inca's were conquered by the Spanish because they had been waiting for the white Gids from the sky... FROM THE SKY??????? Back then who was flying???


I fear the day I meet a doctor who holds your belief- He kills a patient by removing their lungs-
UFO's is just a side liine... HOWEVER I am TRAINED, have a degree in the medical field, so if you want flaunted knowledge here goes...... Dr's kill more patients than car accidents... LOOK IT UP IF YOU DON'T believe me...

Back in the 50's they used to do a surgery where they would cinch up the organs that slipped down towards the pelvis... That is because they didn't get the fact gravity affects organs..

Dr's remove wrong body parts, or parts that MAY cause a problem, but they don't know for sure... I know, I had a neurosurgeon permanently injure me for life. Not a good example to bring up to someone who worked the field for 15 yrs, and have some bad surgical errors due to Dr's not really knowing what is going on.

Sorry to say but your own ignorance is now showing...

I hold only an opinion, and that is their is a plausible theory that aliens exist. That is my opinion and I am allowed... Personal attacks, not so cool...

People believe in the all might God, and Jesus his person son and savior... That is THEIR choice, they feel comfortable with it, even if it doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

Personally this is not a topic that I feel the need to PROVE and pull out all the stops on authorities and reliable PRIMARY resources, simply because it isn't that important to me. In fact I have had my time of exploring the issue, but have more pressing issues like Finishing my Bachelors, and starting my Masters.

This thread seemed like one of those off the wall, doesn't matter threads, however I guess some people get their ya yas off of hassling someone for beliving in a plausible theory

 Jiperly
Joined: 8/30/2006
Msg: 72
Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 12/17/2008 9:08:41 AM
>>>Some of us do these forum for fun, NOT TO bash or insult others.

I don't believe I ever said I'm here because I like to insult people- I do it because I like to challenge peoples beliefs, and find this section of the forum as the appropreiate place for it.

>>>and as I have repeatedly stated there are theories going in all sorts of directions.

And you have subscribed to one of the line of thinking. If you were open minded, you would either challenge both beliefs or challenge neither- you've argued in favour of an Earth were aliens caused modern man, and nothing else.

>>>Did Aliens alter us, who the hell knows??????

Scientists, for one.

We've been over this- theres room for argument that aliens started life on Earth- but starting humanity? Its a completely redundant subject- if you believe evolution is the natural course of life as the OP has pointed out, and if humanity was showing the development of an intelligence by the point you claim the aliens arrived, then its simple to argue that humanity simply continued to evolve, as they had "before the aliens arrived"- there is no need to include aliens in the theory to explain intellience, because you already have an explaination, evolution.

>>>Cave paintings that had mechanical devices, not birds, not bats, but mechanical designs that didn't exist.

I find it funny- if you were open minded, you would be in pursuit of truth, not proving me wrong- if you were openminded, and I ask for examples, you wouldn't keep avoiding it- but I asked to see what you mean by cave paintings, you've kept it secret. I've asked, by my count, 3 times now for you to present one of these "cave paintings of aliens" to me- and you haven't.

Even then, though- what does that prove? Does the fact that the Greeks believed in Gods who lived ontop of mountains prove Gods exist? Even if the society actively believed in what you claim they did, and theres no evidence of that, that is still not evidence of alien life, or alien life altering the genes of mankind.

>>>The Inca's were conquered by the Spanish because they had been waiting for the white Gids from the sky

No, they were conquered by the Spainish for multiple reasons- for instance, the Incas were in a civil war shortly before the arrivial of the Spainards. Also, the Spainards set off a wave of disease- not to mention they attacked and captured the Emperor of the Incas when they approched them peacefully- and, of course, the fact that Inca's had no concept of the killing power of guns made the Emperor confident, allowing a force of 200 to get deep within their country with no resistance, mostly due to curiousity.

The belief that the Spainards came from the sky isn't because the Incas were waiting for them- its because the boats came over the horizon, which to the Incas seemed to have decended from the sky.

>>>Dr's kill more patients than car accidents... LOOK IT UP IF YOU DON'T believe me...

I don't doubt it. But you said nothing was fact until we know everything, and until that day everything is subjective- if this is true, then if Doctors shared your beliefs, then there would be far more people dying, solely because the Doctors claim that everything is subjective, and you cannot prove even the patient existed in the first place.

You see, you're arguing two points with very different arguments- one is the existence of aliens et al. The other you're arguing is reality is subjective- that its malible, and changes from person to person. That there is no such thing as a fact, only speculation- and thats an awefully convenient excuse if you ask me.

>>>... Personal attacks, not so cool...

Personal attacks? Where? I'm challenging your beliefs, granted, but I haven't challenged you or attacked you in any way.

If you feel assaulted, by all means, bring this topic to the attention of the moderators. I have no interest in insulting you, simply to challenge your beliefs, as is the purpose of this topic. But I will not be bullied into accepting that there is a universe where there is no such thing as a "fact", nor will I apologize for offending you for not agreeing with your opinion.

>>>Personally this is not a topic that I feel the need to PROVE

You wish to postulate the theory that aliens visited Earth and altered out DNA- but don't think its anyones place to actually prove or even disprove the theory?

>>> In fact I have had my time of exploring the issue, but have more pressing issues like Finishing my Bachelors, and starting my Masters.

By all means- this is a voluntary public fourm- no one is forcing you to respond- but that doesn't mean we will not challenge your responses.

>>>however I guess some people get their ya yas off of hassling someone for beliving in a plausible theory

Once again, I disagree- you wish to dictate the means and likelihood of the plausablity without so much as accepting that facts exists, let alone proving the facts are in favour of the plausablity.
 nexthyme
Joined: 9/12/2007
Msg: 73
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Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 12/17/2008 1:14:26 PM
Jiperly, if YOU were open minded, you'd be capable to see that I am open minded.

Life is NOT black and white on subjects that are speculation. Just because I don't feel like debating all things I know alien, does not mean I don't have an opinion about things.

Let's look at the Neg RH factor of blood. This is an anomaly according to scientist that does not make sense, because all people started out with positive RH factor... Thus there is a question as to where it has came from, and if it is a means to keep altered humans breeding with non altered beings...

Is it true... It is possible, but that is not the worlds greatest question, thus if you research the subject you can get many different answers.


one is the existence of aliens et al. The other you're arguing is reality is subjective- that its malible, and changes from person to person. That there is no such thing as a fact, only speculation- and thats an awefully convenient excuse if you ask me.


I NEVER SAID EVERYTHING IS SUBJECTIVE, so please make it a point to Quote what I stated, and not what you want to turn into some tired debate... As well I never said the Spanish conquered the Incas strictly because they came over the horizon. They welcomed them because they were waiting for the WHITE GODS that came from the sky.


The belief that the Spainards came from the sky isn't because the Incas were waiting for them- its because the boats came over the horizon, which to the Incas seemed to have decended from the sky.


Had they had the energy, and knowledge to know that these people in their ships were enemies, then they would have kicked their a$$. However something "A white God" came from the sky, and promised to return, thus they were waiting for them.

We don't know WHEN the "white God" came from the sky. AND IT WASN'T because they descended from the sky, they were visited by a white GOD. Theory is they were visited when Jesus was killed, and before he ascended to heaven...

The Incas were NOT stupid people, especially if you seen the very intricate temples they built, so they would not think a ship in the ocean as coming from the sky. However because of the color of the skin of the Spanish, they welcomed them with open arms.. MUCH TO THEIR DEMISE...



There are subjective subjects, and then their are subjects of facts. Which is something I have repeatedly stated, but since you seem to want to pick and chose what you want to "debate" you miss what is actually being said..

Dr's try to work in the realm of fact, how ever they also PRACTICE medicine, meaning that not every single person is going to benefit from the treatment they try. This is a fact, and it is subjective as to whether the treatment will work, or be worse than what the patient came in with.

It is a fact if you cut a persons arteries, and do nothing, that person is going to die from ensanguination.

Run head long into a thick brick wall you will NOT get through it, and probably get injured if you run fast enough.

Evolution, verses aliens... Subjective topic, simply because it depends on what scientist you speak to and personal experience; as well as if you want to believe the people who testify to seeing alien crafts. Subjective to that persons experience.

Does that mean we were altered by aliens... WHO KNOWS... Scientist are in disagreement; there are those that state evolution was a fact, and then there are those who say no, we were started some where else.

My opinion means jack one way or another. AND you aren't making me think, because I have my opinions that I CHOSE to keep to myself... I don't need someone the age of my three kids to open my mind, it's open and I research areas of interest fully aware there is NO answers at the moment to being fact or not...

I have been here on earth twice as long as you, and have seen twice as much. So thanks for trying to tell me what ever you are trying to tell me, but please find someone else that wants to debate you... You don't debate fully from what I state, therefore it is nothing more than a 23 yr old fodder to pick and chose what you want to twist into something that wasn't said.


You wish to postulate the theory that aliens visited Earth and altered out DNA- but don't think its anyones place to actually prove or even disprove the theory?


I never stated that ANYONE else couldn't prove or disprove their theory... Once again I DON'T HAVE TO PROVE ANYTHING ONE WAY OR ANOTHER. (which is what I stated in my last post) IT is NOT my field of study, and all I know is what scientist have to say.

If you think you have empirical proof, great more power to you. Bring it on..

By the way I never stated that ALIENS DID or DID NOT alter DNA. I have said it is a plausible of a theory (as much as evolution). There is no empirical proof of evolution either, that is why it is called a theory...
 stargazer1000
Joined: 1/16/2008
Msg: 74
Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 12/17/2008 2:59:49 PM

By the way I never stated that ALIENS DID or DID NOT alter DNA. I have said it is a plausible of a theory (as much as evolution). There is no empirical proof of evolution either, that is why it is called a theory...


Thyme, I'm going to have to call you on this one. Yes, there is empirical evidence of evolution. It can be found at any natural history museum. As for "theory," well, as has explained numerous times on these forums, there is a difference between what the layperson calls a theory and what a scientist calls a theory.

Classic example is the Theory of General Relativity. The fact that its predictions have been observed time and time again make it a very reliable theory. You're certainly not going to challenge it by stepping off a cliff or high wall.
 nexthyme
Joined: 9/12/2007
Msg: 75
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Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 12/17/2008 3:18:21 PM
Stargazer I get what you are saying, and agree in part... However we wouldn't have a "missing link", if the theory of evolution were complete.

As I stated, it is a PLAUSIBLE theory, but that doesn't mean that aliens did OR didn't come down and monkey around with the DNA so as to make a viable intelligent race.

My question always falls back on this, if we evolved from apes, then why are there still apes??? Why would some decide it was cool to get smart, and others to use twigs to pick bugs out of the ground, and swing from trees???

TO ME, that is a very viable inquiry, and as of yet I haven't heard anything that has suggested we have broken the code as to why there still is a missing link.

Personally I can't imagine why a race of beings (aliens) would want to visit our planet, and intermingle with humans... Really as a race, we are more like cancer to our environment, and have no qualms over using any and all resources with reckless abandoned. That is until we are at crisis level, and barely have a chance to stop the damage, then we decide geez we are ruining our planet...

As for aliens, unless these creatures were just as much of a greedy, self serving civilization, I could see why they would be inclined to enslave us... Hell we are already enslaved to the government, work, doing what it takes to survive, yet there was a time when people could survive with out having to pay into big brother.

Ever watch Michio Kaku, he is a physists that does a LOT of the shows on Geo about these sorts of questions... Very smart man, and he ask inquires about a lot of the things I do, except he has the ability and resources to find answers.

YET it still remains, we don't know everything.

Once again, I do agree, there is a certain amount of evolutionary change that comes with living things on this planet.

We have an appendix and nobody knows why. In fact it is considered so useless that if given the chance surgeons would cut it out for all people to avoid the potential of an appendicitis. True story As an X ray tech I was chatting with a surgeon and that is what he told me.

Relativity is great, with the exception of the times when it doesn't work... However it works way more often than not. And you are right, seldom do people jump off a cliff unless they are diving into water, or using a parashute...
 saintgasoline
Joined: 8/3/2007
Msg: 76
Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 12/17/2008 6:19:03 PM

My question always falls back on this, if we evolved from apes, then why are there still apes???


And this is the kind of question that could only be asked by someone completely ignorant of evolution. Apes still exist because evolution isn't a linear line, but a branching tree. The fish that branch out to oxygen-deprived swamps may evolve lungs from their swimbladders and eventually trek out onto land, but those that stay in the deep oceans have no selection pressure to evolve lungs. Hence, fish with lungs evolved from fish without lungs, and we don't need to explain why fish without lungs still exist. The same goes for our own evolution.


Why would some decide it was cool to get smart, and others to use twigs to pick bugs out of the ground, and swing from trees???


Because it isn't necessary to have intelligence to survive. Bacteria, social insects, and all sorts of brainless creatures survive a lot better than we do. Like anything, there are trade-offs that come with our intelligence. Our brains use up a ton of our energy intake, for instance, and we also lack the capacity to run like a cheetah, to have the strength of a gorilla, etc. There are many different ways to survive.

The evidence for evolution is solid and overwhelming. We have evidence from transitional fossils, observations of homologous and vestigial parts, evidence from geographic distribution of species, and countless other lines of evidence. To use just one example, whales have a mammalian bone structure, implying they evolved from land mammals. They also have vestigial hip and leg bones in their bodies. On top of that, scientists have found transitional fossils for whale ancestors, and as you go back further in time, you see they resemble more and more land-dwelling mammals (in fact, you can even trace the progression of the nostril as it moves up the head over time to become the blowhole). This is not to mention the DNA analysis that can confirm mammalian evolution, as well as the fact that they breathe AIR despite living in water, like a land creature would. This is just for whales. We see similar lines of evidence converging like this for ALL life. The only plausible explanation for this wide variety of facts is that whales evolved. (And by the way, you mention the appendix--this is another strong case for evolution, because evolution predicts we'd inherit parts from our ancestors that once served a purpose but that no longer serve such functions as we evolve to fill new evolutionary niches. As for what the appendix once did, it was an aid to digestion, a lot like the gullet in a chicken.)

There is NOTHING plausible in believing aliens had something to do with our creation, and to portray it as equivalent to evolution in terms of evidentiary plausibility just betrays your ignorance on the matter.
 nexthyme
Joined: 9/12/2007
Msg: 77
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Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 12/17/2008 8:44:07 PM
Saint gasoline, does it make you feel like a big smart man to repeatedly call me ignorant???

I am NOT completely ignorant of evolution, and if your opinion is there is no aliens any where goody for you... We are all allowed our opinions based on the different theories and experiences we have had.

If you are so smart on the subject then why didn't YOU explain where the missing link is, and WHY we still have a missing link???

I did mention the appendix, and it was pointed out BY ME the person you have decided to bash as an example of evolution...

And perhaps you can show where you got your PRIMARY resource for YOUR explination of the appendix, because that isn't what I learned in A&P, nor did any of the Dr's at the medical school state it was LIKE a gullet...

However for chits and giggles I looked up specifically since you seem to think I am so ignorant...


The team of immunologists at Duke University Medical Center say the human digestive system contains massive amounts of bacteria most of which are good and help the digestion of food.

However the researchers say sometimes the bacteria die off or are purged from the intestines as in diseases such as cholera or dysentery.

According to the researchers, the appendix's job is to "reboot" the digestive system when that happens with the bacteria safely harbored in the appendix.


So I am wondering who is NOW showing their ignorance of the human body



I guess if you bothered to read my post you would have seen this, and would have noted that I did agree with a major level of the evolutionary process. However I also have ever right to believe in the evidence that has been brought forth about aliens as well.

Once again it goes to is it PLAUSIBLE, and I say yes, it is a plausible theory... THEORY does not mean fact, but based upon different evidence there is enough to support it being a theory that is possible.

Just because it is "plausible" doesn't make it so, and it doesn't make it NOT so...

We have NO imperical proof as to where the missing link is between apes and humans... After my OWN research the theory still falls short between the last evolutionary step of the neanderthal to modern man.


Taking isolated similarities by themselves, the theory of evolution appears to be quite reasonable... to a point. However, it seems that too much weight has been placed on similarities without questioning the differences.

Accordingly "there were statistical differences between Neanderthal DNA and the DNA of modern humans. These differences were used to calculate the evolutionary divergence of Neanderthals from a common ancestor to around 550,000 to 690,000 years ago." (found on Dec 17th, from http://www.detectingdesign.com/earlyman.html#Neanderthal)


Problematic is that DNA does not last over the long haul... Therefore despite theory, and a supposed fossil progression, really it all goes back to unproven FULL theory. Thus it is just as plausible as not that aliens decided neanderthals would make useful homo sapiens, if they had some smarts...

Point being that even at this moment they still have proven that neanderthals and modern human are still not a DNA match, and that means it is still up for debate as to how we got from Neanderthal, to here.

You subscribe to what you want to believe, and I leave the door open to the possibility that aliens may have intervened... In the end, calling another person ignorant, is something I would expect out of a 12 yr old... Before you call people ignorant, perhaps you need to open your own book, and find out that there are different theories on the matter, and just because one say fall the line of reasoning, doesn't mean it isn't faulty reasoning that took a person from point A to point B.

We are now back to NOT KNOWING FOR SURE...
 Jiperly
Joined: 8/30/2006
Msg: 78
Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 12/18/2008 12:55:15 PM
>>>Saint gasoline, does it make you feel like a big smart man to repeatedly call me ignorant???

Did it make you feel like a big smart woman to challenge my assertions by pointing out my age?

I find it so funny to find people who fight tooth and nail against "personal attacks", but have no issue with using personal attacks against others- what relivance to anything in this topic does my age play? Does it change or alter anything, any fact, or any assertions I've previously made?

I'm either expecting an apology from you or for you to grow up and stop being a hypocrite. If you don't want personal attacks, don't start them.

>>>I am NOT completely ignorant of evolution, and if your opinion is there is no aliens any where goody for you...

Actually, I was the one who stated the belief that there are no aliens anywhere, based on our own observations. The closest he's been to saying anything like that is, "If we ever do find life, it will be unicellular at best or possibly some sort of space algae, and it will be very, very far away from us."

Please stop grouping peoples opinions together.

>>>If you are so smart on the subject then why didn't YOU explain where the missing link is, and WHY we still have a missing link???

We do? Since when? What books have you been reading on the subject?

In the 1850's, when Darwin presented his book to the world, yes- there were missing links. Even Darwin himself confessed to that. He called the lack of transitional fossils as, "the most obvious and gravest objection which can be urged against my theory", but reminded people that the geological record was imperfect at that time.

Two years later, the first missing link between dinosaurs and birds was found. So this makes your claim that there is no missing link off by nearly 150 years.

As for human missing links, its grown more and more over the years. If you'd like a list, here they are- starting from the earliest of the genus Homo;

Homo habilis, Homo rudolfensis, Homo georgicus, Homo ergaster, Homo erectus, Homo cepranensis, Homo antecessor, Homo heidelbergensis, Homo rhodesiensis, Homo neanderthalensis, and lastly, Homo sapiens- although we've in the last few years discovered Homo floresiensis, who existed up until 10,000 years ago

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f8/Hominintree4.gif

If you compare our hominin fossil record for each half century since Darwin, this is what we've found;

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/58/Hominins_1850.png
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2f/Hominins_1900.png
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a5/Hominins_1950.png
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/31/Hominins_2002.png

And even then, that chart doesn't include some of our most recent finds

Do we have all transition species on record? No. Of course not. Fossils re incredibly rare- if all of humanity were to suddenly die, for all our numbers, there would be only enough fossils to create two or three human skeletons . Most lifeforms, upon death, decompose and become food, or mulch for plants. Its only if a lifeform dies in an extremely dry area, or stays frozen for centuries, or dies in an oxygen free enviroment does a fossil appear. For some of these transititional species, they very well may be lost forever to time.

>>>where you got your PRIMARY resource for YOUR explination of the appendix

Its an old organ that humanity hasn't evolved out yet- maybe we never will. As Saint pointed out, Whales still have some bone structure to support their non-existant legs- birds share a simular bone structure to dinosaurs- these kinds of things are incredibly common to those who take the time and research this kind of thing- something you've already admitted that you refuse to do, so its no wonder you hold doubts.

>>> the appendix's job is to "reboot" the digestive system when that happens with the bacteria safely harbored in the appendix.

That is also likely- but that doesn't disprove human evolution in any way, shape or form....

>>>However I also have ever right to believe in the evidence that has been brought forth about aliens as well.

Sure you do- but you have no right to say it probly or even possibly happened without first discussing what grants the plausiblity- and that would be discussing facts. We still have no evidence aliens exist at all, and, frankly, more importantly, the OP's claims, which you clearly agree with, contradict the fossil record.

What purpose would aliens have to "upgrade" humanity? Homo Erectus was a species of many firsts- the first to control fire, the first to walk upright, the first to use elaborate tools- and this species appeared over 1.3 Million-750,000 years before the supposed aliens did. Clearly this subspecies of humanity is proving an ability to learn over a dependance on instinct- why do we need aliens to progress that more? Why would it take hundreds of thousands of years?

There is no real evidence of aliens altering humanity- nor is there a need to- humanity was clearly evolving on its own long, LONG before you claim aliens were hovering over our heads collecting, of all things Gold(why not metal? or diamonds? Both are far more rare and far more useful to an alien race- Gold was chosen by us not because its an awesome resource, but because its easily malible- perfect for early species, but a spaceship made of gold would melt in our atmosphere)

>>>THEORY does not mean fact, but based upon different evidence there is enough to support it being a theory that is possible.

We're still waiting on that evidence, you know.

>>>After my OWN research the theory still falls short between the last evolutionary step of the neanderthal to modern man.

Good news! You may be wasting your time! People who spend their time actually researching and understanding the data still aren't as convinced as you are- there is a debate still going on if the Neanderthal evolved into Homo Erectus, if Homo Erectus evolved from an eariler sub-species, or if Homo Erectus and Neanderthals co-mingled, and created a new sub-species through breeding.

>>>Therefore despite theory, and a supposed fossil progression, really it all goes back to unproven FULL theory...........and that means it is still up for debate as to how we got from Neanderthal, to here.

Gotcha- so all life on our planet evolved, but not modern man. And you present no evidence on why the distinction.

It seems almost like an ego thing for you- you don't want to contemplate a world where we evolved from Neanderthals(and combined with an yearning that we have a purpose and a yearning that we are not alone) , so you accept any theory that disagrees but doesn't disprove evolution. I really don't get your hestiation. Could there be more transitutional fossils between Neanderthals and Sapians? Yes- but the lack of a transitutional fossil doesn't mean space creatures came from the sky and changed our genes to harvest our gold. Its that leap that utterly confuses me.....
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