Plentyoffish dating forums are a place to meet singles and get dating advice or share dating experiences etc. Hopefully you will all have fun meeting singles and try out this online dating thing... Remember that we are the largest free online dating service, so you will never have to pay a dime to meet your soulmate.
     
Show ALL Forums  > Science/philosophy  >      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 abelian
Joined: 1/12/2008
Msg: 131
Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?Page 5 of 53    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41)

Yes, scientific methodology, empirically proven, all good and just, but the only problem, is that "ALL" the known data is assumed to be correct.


That isn't true. In science, data are specified with error bars and confifence limits which give a precise measure of the extent to which the data could be in error. Any theory which lives reasonably close to those limits is generally considered consistent with the data.
 abelian
Joined: 1/12/2008
Msg: 132
Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 12/21/2008 4:02:12 PM

Guess what a lot of scientist hung against MAJOR majority criticism survived the nay sayers and came to be world famous and respect to this day posthumerously; Newton, Einstein to name a few.


You are very naive. Both Newton's and Einstein's ideas were accepted very quickly (at least the ideas that were not proven to be incorrect.) In fact, one of Einstein's criteria for his theories was that his theories must reduce to Newtonian physics in the appropriate limits so that both theories were consistent with data where the data was insufficiently precise to distinguish.
 abelian
Joined: 1/12/2008
Msg: 133
Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 12/21/2008 4:06:53 PM

What ever the case, things in the realm of science has progressed amazingly since 50 yrs ago. Every day there are new discoveries and new questions to be answered, just because something hasn't been found doesn't ALWAYS mean it doesn't exist.


The reason science has progressed so rapidly is precisely because the scientific method has been employed to do science and that places extremely stringint requirements on what can be called a scientific theory. Because of that, scientists have well defined criteria to determine which avenues are dead ends.
 abelian
Joined: 1/12/2008
Msg: 134
Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 12/21/2008 4:13:06 PM
If ALL things simply evolve, WHY OH WHY, is man kind, and ONLY man kind the one the developed to intellectual beings???


Because man is defining ``intellect'' tomean what man considers to be intellect. Man happens to be the most evolved in terms of intellect, but why is it surprising that one species has evolved to have a greater capacity for one particular thing than another? Cheetahs can outrun a man, but you probably don't find that particularly weird. Your problem is you anthropomorphize everythig to think of human qualities as being as being special.
 quietcowboy
Joined: 12/25/2007
Msg: 135
view profile
History
Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 12/21/2008 5:01:42 PM

If ALL things simply evolve, WHY OH WHY, is man kind, and ONLY man kind the one the developed to intellectual beings???


Because we might be the first. People sometimes ask, usually to justify that our universe must have been designed by god, that we couldn't not have existed if the universe wasn't this way or that way, well it is and we don't know how many other universes there are or have been. The question about the universe is pretty much the same question as why we are only intelligent being that we know of in our universe. We define the criteria, then ask why we know of nothing else that suits that criteria.
 saintgasoline
Joined: 8/3/2007
Msg: 136
Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 12/21/2008 5:34:50 PM
You said:

THE FACT IS, scientist have speculated, that evolution from ape to man is the ONLY way, (according to some) modern man could derive. That is a plausible theory, BUT not the only one.


Given the evidence that we have, evolution is the MOST plausible theory. It isn't the only theoretical construct that can be constructed to explain all the data (hypothesizing that "it's magic!" would do so as well), but it predicts the most fulfilled observations than any other theory. The problem with your reasoning is that you are trying to characterize evolution as an idea on equal footing with some loony idea about aliens, when this couldn't be further from the case. Pointing out that theories are underdetermined by the data doesn't mean that all theories are therefore epistemically equal. Evolution, given the evidence, is the most plausible theory. Ideas about aliens or claiming it is "just magic" or anything like that is NOT plausible because it is not supported by any evidence.


it would be considered shitty police work if they JUST FOCUSED on what seemed to be the most obvious


No, it would be considered shitty police work if the police investigated every conceivable explanation for a crime, from the possibility that aliens committed the crime to the possibility that time-traveling gremlins who live in an alternate dimension framed the aliens and so on ad infinitum. Police don't investigate every possible explanation, but only those that, as you put it, are most "obvious", or as I would describe it, those that are more probable given our current knowledge and evidence-base. Police who investigate every conceivable angle would never get anything done, and they'd be ignoring all of the initial evidence that already points toward more plausible explanations.


If someone cut your heart out, and ate it for lunch, you would be dead. That has been fully empirically proven... I could go on all day on the things that are empirically proven.


That doesn't empirically "prove" anything in an absolute, logical sense. For instance, simply because I stopped showing all signs of life doesn't mean I'm not still living. If you assert that living things in the past have never come back once signs of life have ceased for a certain period of time, I can just throw Hume's problem of induction at you. My basic point is that you can find a "hole" in any scientific, empirical claim because that's just the nature of our epistemic limitations. But that doesn't mean we can't accept something as more or less true. Things do not need to be proven with absolute certainty to be known to be true. So, yes, it would be totally unreasonable for you to doubt that I am still living after you have dined on my heart, even though you can't know this with ABSOLUTE certainty. In the same manner, it is TOTALLY UNREASONABLE for you to doubt evolution given the wide abundance of evidence in its favor, even though you can't know this with absolute certainty.
 Sivoph
Joined: 8/2/2008
Msg: 137
Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 12/21/2008 6:09:15 PM
He said the "c" word. Implicit in your question is a belief in an ultimate creator, be it an alien race or a straggly-bearded mofo who sits atop the clouds.
 Jiperly
Joined: 8/30/2006
Msg: 138
Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 12/21/2008 7:56:19 PM
>>>If ALL things simply evolve, WHY OH WHY, is man kind, and ONLY man kind the one the developed to intellectual beings???

There were- I listed them off earlier in this thread- but we certainly are the only ones who survived to the current day. And frankly, I believe our species largely had something to do with that

You're living under the assumption that humanity is the apex of evolution- that at the end of evolution leads to man- and its not true. There certainly are far more adaptive species than man. As other users have pointed out, Mankind is the smartest, but that doesn't mean much- Cheetahs are the fastest- why them and not camels? Whales are the largest- Why them, and not birds? Why are Komodo Dragons the only species to employ bacteria as a vemon? Why do Turtles live far, far longer than man?

I can keep going- there is no such thing as an apex of evolution- if we were to go back to the origin of life and restart, we could end up with a dramatically different lifeforms, being the dominant species for very different reasons

>>>We have no proof of DNA structure from aliens...

Nope, my evidence is the assumption that if we have microbal diseases, as all life comes from the microbal, then so must aliens. So if aliens were on our planet as recently as 12,000 years ago, or even as recently as last week, and they interacted with humans, then they must has exchanged these microbal lifeforms- and through the base pairs of the DNA structure, we will identify whether or not it originated from the life on Earth or if it has more or less pairs than all life on Earth

Of course, this is based under the assumption that both Aliens have diseases and an Aliens DNA is different from our own- but then again, the existence of aliens is based on an assumption too, so I don't think I'm going too far on a limb here....

>>>IF we living, and ALL living came from one source, this big ass bang, why aren't ALL of our DNA structure simular???

Well, the purpose of diversity is a survival technique. If a virus sweeps through the world, hopefully there will be a lifeform that has a natural resistance- otherwise, if everyone was the same, then the entire species can be wiped out.

So to say that the fact that life is diverse is proof that evolution isn't true is kinda missing the mark- we'd need diversity, or life would have been extinguished in the first extinction.

Not to mention.....why exactly are you trying to prove the theory of evolution false? I mean, you already made it extremely clear that you believe in evolution- I'm not challenging evolution- I'm challenging the logic of supporting evolution up until the creation of man, then rejecting evolution, then continuing to accept it for all other life forms since then. Like I said, you don't deny evolution- you use it as a crutch, to prove the origin of life and the origin of species, expect you do not believe it is responsible for man.

Inadequacies in the theory of evolution doesn't prove you right- you depend on it to explain all life- you must prove where evolution cannot explain Homo Sapain- not all life. Neither of us denies our support of the theory of evolution of life- its the evolution of man we are debating. If you wish to create crediblity to your line of thought, you must explain why man needs the qualifier above all other species.

>>>Life is about questioning, and following different observations even if they go against mainstay ideas.

Present observations that aliens altered Earth lifeforms.

You've mentioned that some people may have experienced flying saucers- but the belief that aliens altered any species at any time, is a complete and utter fabrication. There is nothing observed to suggest or imply it- simply a "what if" notion.

>>>Therefore for all of your actual rant, and those with the clever name calling ( IE: psuedo intellects) when tally comes rolling around a lot of you are sitting in the minority of what the majority believes. As nice as it is to say well these people are all ignorant, and we hold the key to how things really are.

Are you saying that reality is to be judged by the majority? That if the majority says the sky is Green, then it must be?

That been said, I never said anything about ignorance in my rant, nor do I believe I called anyone names....

>>>The real truth is, none of know the exacts of what happened billions of years back.

About everything? No.

About some things? Yes. Like we know how much oxygen was on the planet by finding Billion year old rocks. It isn't a matter of looking at the rock and saying "109 parts per Million"- we measure them.

You're really showing your ignorance* if you believe we know nothing from the past, and everything is guess work

*-If I'm going to get blamed for calling people ignorant when I didn't, then I might as well do it- since you notice it when it isn't there, maybe you won't notice it when I do.

>>>It is fool hardy to stop asking questions when there are still so many unanswered questions.

And its equally fool hardy to present answers that contradict truths we know.

Also, I'd like to point out here that you called me a name (fool) 2 paragraphs after you called foul on a non-existant name calling.

>>>They have it specially enclosed so as not to RISK any contamination of cells that may be on this piece another planet.

Sounds like a moot idea, since the land on the artic wasn't always at the artic, but I'm willing to believe they know something I don't.

>>>because going back to the big bang theory, all was created equal according to those that follow that theory.

....I thought you were just being clever earlier.....but I guess you really don't know....

The Big Bang is a theory about the creation of the Universe(approx 14 Billion years ago)- it has nothing to do with life except to explain that the elements that we are made of are, in effect, made of stardust from the SuperNova going off, since not all the elements could have been made in the Big Bang.

I believe you are refering to the "Primordial Ooze" or Abiogenesis- where inanimate objects and molecules independantly came to life.

That been said.....I still don't understand the "all life was created equal" claim.....I mean, all life came from the same source, yes, but equal? I'm not certain I understand your claim....

----

>> Both Newton's and Einstein's ideas were accepted very quickly

Abelian's right- Gallieo had difficulty, but it wasn't from his fellow scientists, but from religion. Newton and Einstein were extremely well respected for their theories.
 nexthyme
Joined: 9/12/2007
Msg: 139
view profile
History
Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 12/21/2008 8:57:28 PM

Gallieo had difficulty, but it wasn't from his fellow scientists, but from religion. Newton and Einstein were extremely well respected for their theories.


Oh so now history books are incorrect too. Einstein had been repeatedly rejected in his earlier days. He was a c average student in primary school, and it took a hell of a lot of work for him to get known as someone that had anything going for him.

Newton was known as a crack pot, OR actually these days considered probably Bi polar.

If everything came from the big bang, then everything has the same elements, et al.

If things climbed out the primordial soap, then they too would have to start from the same DNA chain.

We haven't been able to master creating actual life... So as far as the big bang theory, it was only the beginning, yet still I haven't heard where life has jumped into the picture.



Nope, my evidence is the assumption that if we have microbal diseases, as all life comes from the microbal, then so must aliens. So if aliens were on our planet as recently as 12,000 years ago, or even as recently as last week, and they interacted with humans, then they must has exchanged these microbal lifeforms- and through the base pairs of the DNA structure, we will identify whether or not it originated from the life on Earth or if it has more or less pairs than all life on Earth

Of course, this is based under the assumption that both Aliens have diseases and an Aliens DNA is different from our own- but then again, the existence of aliens is based on an assumption too, so I don't think I'm going too far on a limb here....


If all the universe started out at one point, collecting dust, but then came to life starting from microbs, why is it NOT plausible that IF there is alien life form it wouldn't have the same DNA structure.

Human being have 23 dna pairings, but there are hundreds of thousands of differences to create different people, but they are all still people. However in some the DNA is muffed up, and there for that beings DNA structure differs..

In fact I was watching on Geo tonite the identical twins can end up having different DNA, because of different things happening during development.


You're really showing your ignorance* if you believe we know nothing from the past, and everything is guess work
and you're really showing yours when I have stated that we know a LOT of things, but not everything, and that things that are known today, can in fact beconsidered BUNK in 20 or so years from now.

What I really notice is a lot of GUYS that think of evolution as the only possible answer, and if anyone else thinks differently, even if it is just to entertain possibilities that are being explored.. Then it is a bash fest for the person who has to defend WHY they have their own ideals.

The odd thing is, I have NEVER suggested that evolution didn't occur. I have only suggest THERE IS A PLAUSIBILITY that there are other things that happened besides JUST evolution.

Now I would really find it amusing to see you boys being so bold and stating your opinion in a large religious group, and take the beating from these 80%ers that believe in creatism.

HELL I DIDN'T even go there. Just because I think it is a possiblility doesn't mean squat... All it means, and oh my GOSH how many times have I gone over this... It is a possibility that I am willing to entertain.

SaintGas, there is only one thing I will respond to... I didn't say that police would go out chasing every single possible lead that came from some other dimension et al. That would be fool hardy in the very least, and a waste of money; however in criminology it is just as fool hardy to follow ONLY on lead, without investigating others.

Oh and you of all people are NOW going to argue that it isn't empirically been proven if you have your heart cut out, and eaten for lunch, YOU will not die... OH PLEASE, for the love of arguement... How about we just run you through a meat grinder, would that be better, MORE DEAD, than having your heart removed and destroyed... "rolls her eyes"

If you are burned down to your bones you not dead... What I hear you suggesting is resurrection, reincarnation???? Really how does that fly in the face of an evolutionist.


Funny if there is no proof of other options, (but not as strong as some of you would like...) Then what the heck is up with the scientist with their HUGE radar systems that are listening, searching, and looking for other life outside of our own... Why is it funded by government, and not just a bunch of back yard religious fools... (oh wait they wouldn't be looking for aliens either... Sheesh that would be saying a greater power didn't exist)

As Carl Sagan said "it would be aweful huge was of space..."

So I have taken my lumps of being called foolish, ignorant, and naive, et. al. Really I'm all ok with that, because at the end of the nite, the week, the year... (coming up soon) It doesn't matter what I believe. I am not here to change any bodies opinion, nor am I here really to have to continue to defend myself.

You boys don't know me, and I don't know you. If I were to end up in political office, and like the Reagan years, used astrology to base some of my choice... Hunt me down and burn me at the stake, in the mean time I mean you no harm... If I met you on the street I would gladly smile your way, because I am a friendly gal...

I truly hope you all have felt you have won some sort of prize, as for me... I am cool what I believe, to each their own. If it isn't hurting anyone, illegal, or immoral, then it is all good...


 Jiperly
Joined: 8/30/2006
Msg: 142
Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 12/21/2008 11:25:38 PM
>>>... So as far as the big bang theory, it was only the beginning, yet still I haven't heard where life has jumped into the picture.

As I've said, the Big Bang has very little to do with the creation of life- but since you seem a little confused, allow me to explain;

(According to the overlapping theories goes) The Big Bang created numerous of elements- but not all of them. It seems shortly after the Big Bang, emourmous stars appeared and gorged themselves on the abunance of newly existing elements- but, it could not last, and very soon(in Galatic terms), they violently exploded. This created numerous of elements that otherwise would not have existed, and spread them all over- these include silicon, sulfur, chlorine, argon, sodium, potassium, calcium, scandium, titanium, vanadium, chromium, manganese, iron, cobalt, and nickel.

The universe, according to the Big Bang theory, is nearly 14 Billion years old- our solar system is nearly 5 billion years old, and life, it seems, is 3.7 Billion years old. Life, it was theorized, was created in the primordial soup, believed to be a small puddle somewhere where inanimate objects sparked to life. There are numerous alterative theories and beliefs, both religious and scientific on this, but as it is completely irrelivant to the discussion of whether aliens assisted in the evolution of man, we'll side step that completely

So Big Bang= Creation of the Universe. Primordial Ooze= Creation of Life. It'd help your ability to defend your beliefs if you stop confusing the two.

>>>why is it NOT plausible that IF there is alien life form it wouldn't have the same DNA structure.

The massive distances, for one. The closest star is 4.2 light years away, or 24,690,226,567,371.156 miles away

The Billions of years difference, for another. Theres a 11 billion years difference between the Big Bang and the advent of life....

And, once again, I cannot stress this enough- this discussion is completely irrelivant to the purpose of this topic.

>>>However in some the DNA is muffed up, and there for that beings DNA structure differs..

Yes, but there are some standards that all life shares- like the double helix shape.

>>>that things that are known today, can in fact beconsidered BUNK in 20 or so years from now.

So we should never believe in anything??

>>>Then it is a bash fest for the person who has to defend WHY they have their own ideals.

I don't believe Ideals is the correct word- ideals is more of a pursuit of a goal, usually a moral one. Belief is more accurate.

And I don't believe I've gone out of my way to bash you or anyone else- but I strongly believe in my beliefs, and will defend them if challenged, yes. I believe observations and evidence exist to defend my arguments, and no observations or evidence exist to defend yours. It is not my place to defend the beliefs of others, nor do I pursue you if you decide to end this debate- but I do see it as a debate between two different beliefs, and I am acting to defend my own against yours, as I feel yours only helps to breed misinformation and acts to discredit the scientific method by associating it with garbage theories(leading evolution into aliens altering man, using actual science to promote non-scientific beliefs)

>>>I have only suggest THERE IS A PLAUSIBILITY that there are other things that happened besides JUST evolution.

And there is no more evidence of this than the sky is being held up by invisible celery stalks. Odd how one chooses to define "plausiblity"

>>>Now I would really find it amusing to see you boys being so bold and stating your opinion in a large religious group, and take the beating from these 80%ers that believe in creatism.

Thats simple- we aren't discussing the creation of life. Science has yet to explain the creation of life, because proof would mean that we would have to independantly create a new strand of life- creating living creatures where none existed.

If you had come into this forum and said "Aliens created all life", there would be very little for me to argue about, since, frankly, we just do not know the conditions of life sprouting from where there was none. But thats not what you're saying. You're saying "Aliens created MAN"- and there is plenty of evidence- evidence you yourself support, and use as a crutch to get to the advent of Homo Sapian- that proves that wrong.

>>>Then what the heck is up with the scientist with their HUGE radar systems that are listening, searching, and looking for other life outside of our own...

....They....are....looking.... for.... proof.....

>>>As Carl Sagan said "it would be aweful huge was of space..."

Yes. Yes it would be.Even if every planet contained life, it would be an aweful waste of space. Hell, our own solar system is an awefully huge waste of space- but as far as we've seen, its devoid of all life, and any life we are to transfer to those places would instantly die because of the harshness and shere hostility our solar system shares towards life. And from what's been observed, the rest of the Universe doesn't fare any better.

Wanting the universe to have meaning isn't going to make it happen- wanting our universe to be littered with life isn't going to make it happen. If all the people in the world all at once wanted for food to appear where there is none, it will not save one starving child. We must observe the universe when coming to our conclusions- not project it.

And, as I've said, if its found that aliens are out there then yes, I will re-evaluate my beliefs. But not before.
 nexthyme
Joined: 9/12/2007
Msg: 143
view profile
History
Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 12/22/2008 10:53:37 AM

Thats simple- we aren't discussing the creation of life. Science has yet to explain the creation of life, because proof would mean that we would have to independantly create a new strand of life- creating living creatures where none existed


So if you actually fully read all that was written about the Sumarian tablets, you would see it talks about the double helix, which this was written ummmm have to go back to see when, but way way way before the time of Jesus. How would they know about the double helix, when the largest thing they could see what I don't know a piss ant?

This seems to be what YOU chose to dismiss, and the scientist (sorry I suck at names, and have major snow and ice to worry about at the moment) who has stated here's a plausible theory.

I do suppose I need to go and get the book he wrote, but it is very clear in the reliefs and tablets that they are depicting the double helix.


Life on earth survives in the freaking weirdest places... Volcano vents under the deep of the sea, in the arctic (single cell) deep dark cold caves. As for the stuff on say mars, there were signs that single cell organisms (I REPEAT signs) since they can't personally study them up close, they aren't sure.

I personally don't think YOU NEED to defend you point of view, because it has been extremely apparent. However I guess the thing I find truly annoying is the you continue to state I have bupkis, while yours is solid. The truth is their is some major questions, especially from things they have found. Evolution of man kind has also been mixed up with their stance it takes a certain sized brain to think in a certain way, BUT they have found on the island where KOMOTOS live th "hobbit" with advanced tools

So some holier than the rest has taken the skull and hid it away from all to study.

I would be more inclined to believe what scientists stated IF they didn't have such in fighting, and disagreement.

>>>>>Should you not believe anything, because things constantly change... <<<<
That just means I am not stuck on one theory, hypothesis, ideal, et. al. I am not saying one idea is more or less credible, I just leave things open for interpretation.

This thread was ONLY about human DNA structuring, and splicing... Not about all life, thus I answered that, based I on what I heard and read. If a Cheetah can give its history, and state that their were little grey slant eyed beings that changed their existence, that would make me take notice, BUT they can't. So we just have to say evolution is what changed them from large fanged creatures to all the different big cats that we know about.

OH and to make thing clear I never said alien crated man... I stated it was PLAUSIBLE that alien altered the evolution of man... There was nothing about any of my posts that said I stated they created what was already here, just improved them. Which is the theory that the OP started with.
Created all life, well maybe, I don't know, that would change evolution now wouldn't it from it already having been created my some other source.


 Jiperly
Joined: 8/30/2006
Msg: 146
Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 12/22/2008 12:54:55 PM
>>>So if you actually fully read all that was written about the Sumarian tablets

Are you refering to Sitchin again?

You must- after all, it'd be childish to blame me for not reading everything, everywhere on the Sumers. It'd be esspecially childish to put me down for not reading everything there is to be read considering you yourself entered this thread and was in it for some weeks before you actually read what this topic was about in the OP.

And we've been over Sitchin- he's a fool, who gives people hope by lying to them.

>>>How would they know about the double helix

Theres lots of reasons, but the most likely is a scientist was desparate to find something they could attribute to his preconceived beliefs altered their translation. Its been proven Sitchin did it, and I'm willing to continue my skepticism that there are other people in the world like him.

>>> the scientist (sorry I suck at names, and have major snow and ice to worry about at the moment) who has stated here's a plausible theory.

I don't work on conviction. If this scientist has evidence, he's more than free to present it- but I think I've made it quite clear that the only evidence I accept is evidence, not conviction

>>>Life on earth survives in the freaking weirdest places...

This is true- and I believe this further supports my beliefs of evolution.

Nonetheless, the strange places we can find life doesn't explain why humanity couldn't have evolved on its own.

>>>However I guess the thing I find truly annoying is the you continue to state I have bupkis, while yours is solid.

Then prove me wrong.

>>>Evolution of man kind has also been mixed up with their stance it takes a certain sized brain to think in a certain way, BUT they have found on the island where KOMOTOS live th "hobbit" with advanced tools

I have no problem with that- new observations gives us the chance to re-examine and re-evaluate our beliefs. But the claim that aliens altered humanity doesn't do that, because no observations can be made. Its a "What If" situation with nothing to back it up, whilst using actual science to justify the background noise of every other species known to man. Its a belief that uses science, but refuses to explain where, why, or how science got it wrong in one situation.

>>>So some holier than the rest has taken the skull and hid it away from all to study.

And I believe that is wrong. That been said, historically speaking, people who refuse to allow other people to observe generally are found to be frauds(there once was a fish with legs found, which after the claim the discoverer hid it from the public for his own studies of it- upon his death, it was found that his observations were faulty)

>>>I would be more inclined to believe what scientists stated IF they didn't have such in fighting, and disagreement.

Now you're contradicting yourself- you object when me and my fellows believe in evolution and nothing else, saying we should be open to more plausiblities. Now you're saying that science isn't strict and stringent enough- and without enforcing a dogma that harms progress, theres very little to be done about that. People disagree with the evidence, the observations, and the interpretation of the observations all the time.

>>>That just means I am not stuck on one theory, hypothesis, ideal, et. al.

(et al is latin for "and others"- it doesn't need periods like ect.)

And that I do not understand. If we have a theory that man evolved, and another that says man was altered by a superior being, they cannot both be right.It your desparation to not be wrong, you ensured that you are definately wrong, since there cannot be a world where both conditions are true.

>>>a Cheetah can give its history, and state that their were little grey slant eyed beings that changed their existence

Cheetahs evolved to better suit their enviroment. They no longer needed a large, heavy coat to say warm. They no longer hunted large mammals such as the Wooly Mammoth, and thus they shrunk in size. The animals they hunted increased in speed- and so did they. In fact, it could be said that their speed is their evolutionary advantage over other species. Man's mind is his. He developed his mind because it gave him strength over other species- it allowed him to cooperate, to strategize, and to outsmart his enemies. The advent of other intelligent species, such as the Neanderthal, could have easily have caused him to further this evolutionary trait.

We don't need space creatures to explain why man or any species developed the way they did. We need observation, and logic.

>>>There was nothing about any of my posts that said I stated they created what was already here, just improved them.

I know. I said that, and have answered numerous posts under that assumption. My point was we do not understand what causes molecules to just spring to life from lifelessness- we have ideas and beliefs, but no definate answers. My point was that it was more logical to argue that aliens created life on Earth, rather than only mankind. We have evidence as to where mankind came from. We have little evidence as to where life itself came from.


-----

>>>If there is life here, then it would only make sense there would be many other planets with life as well

Then why has it not been observed?

If the Oceans hold 3 times as much space as land, a greater diversity of life, and all life originated from the oceans, then it would only make sense that there are mermaids somewhere in the depths. But its not been observed either.
 desertrhino
Joined: 11/30/2007
Msg: 147
view profile
History
Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 12/22/2008 2:22:08 PM

Now what to do about you. You've seemed to have decended into personal assults and stalking.

Ignore. Unless you have something intelligent to share.


You have a very strange definition of stalking, silivros, after you went back through ALL my past posts to find random insults to hurl. You're a funny person, who appears to project onto others a bit overmuch. I'm not going to let you drag me into a banning-level argument, however.

Continue to post your semi-informed opinion as often as you wish. Just don't expect it to be treated as some sacrosanct utterance because you've couched it in technical terminology that vaguely fits. I'll continue to discuss the merit or lack thereof, as appropriate. It'll just go more smoothly if you take the time to understand the information you're posting well enough to make it comprehensible to others. IMHO.
 Jiperly
Joined: 8/30/2006
Msg: 149
Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 12/22/2008 6:12:59 PM
Proving intent is damn near impossible- I can prove he's profitted off spreading misinformation, that he's mistranslated things and created nearly a religious following by people who like his message, and aren't bothered by things like facts- and that he continues to support these things even despite overwhelming evidence proving he is both wrong and mistaken. But proving he did all of this on purpose? I don't believe can do that....

If you want to know the things he's gotten wrong, I found a partisan website- Sitchiniswrong.com

http://www.sitchiniswrong.com/sitchinerrors.htm
 nexthyme
Joined: 9/12/2007
Msg: 150
view profile
History
Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 12/22/2008 6:41:14 PM

Then why has it not been observed?


now that is just plain silly.

If I seen how this race of humans that act like cancer upon the land, the other living creatures, and what ever resources it can get its hands on, I would avoid being detected to...

As well you stated that there is a vaste difference between ages in many galaxies... What if like we humans they were on a destructive path, and seen hope in the cave men as being another means to continue life. If it was say ONE space craft and they had to pull the freaking thing apart to survive in the harsh wilds, it wouldn't make sense that there would be much evidence.

And that I do not understand. If we have a theory that man evolved, and another that says man was altered by a superior being, they cannot both be right.It your desparation to not be wrong, you ensured that you are definately wrong, since there cannot be a world where both conditions are true.


Perhaps you can explain WHY not both theories CAN'T be true... I find it plausible, simply because not all things are cut and dry, one way or another. Some things are, but ya know, more things aren't...

Evolution, and alien help is both plausible at the same time... WHY, because we can now have designer babies, that we couldn't have before. There are countries outside of the reaches of the US that do practice stem cell science, and are working on being able to create life out of a petri dish. This is happening WITH OUT EVOLUTION. They are taking out genes considered undesirable, and replacing them with ones they consider most desirable... So what you say is impossible is already happening through science now...

If this civilization was already billions of years ahead of us at the time they came along, their planet could long be gone, as are these beings... Except for for what we only know as things changed, and we just can't fill in the gaps, because many don't want to accept the possibility.

You don't seem to like the observations, and unexplained as reasons for others to consider something a possibility... In fact you went so far as saying I made up a story... WTH!!!! I don't have time for making up stories, nor do I have time to say nah just because all these other people have experienced things that NO BODY can explain, are all full of crap...

We can go back to the negative RH factor, that makes scientist scratch their heads... I have it, I live it, and I lived the stories of a gram who had miscarriage after miscarriage because she and Dr's didn't know that it was an issue. My mum had the same problem, and as a result I and my younger sister survived because we were RH neg...

I had 1 Rh positive, and 2 RH negative children, but was monitored and endured painful shots so as not to loss my babies...

Thing is, it seems pretty apparent it was a means to keep certain people from reproducing with each other...


My point was we do not understand what causes molecules to just spring to life from lifelessness- we have ideas and beliefs, but no definate answers.


I have the very question too, and with all the smarts we still can't replicate and start life... Guess we have a ways to go aye?

Thanks about Et. Al. It is used in legalise when used for cases, they actually do use periods...
 Jiperly
Joined: 8/30/2006
Msg: 152
Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 12/22/2008 8:30:17 PM
>>>If I seen how this race of humans that act like cancer upon the land, the other living creatures, and what ever resources it can get its hands on, I would avoid being detected to...

And yet you also want us to believe they've revealed themselves from cavemen to 14th Century painters, to hikers. It seems their stealth technology has a flaw with the lights on their ships pointing out where they are.

Nonetheless, I wasn't refering to our skies- why is it that we've never found a single planet that can support life, let alone has alien life on it? If life is as abundant in our Galaxy as some users believe, shouldn't that be supported by our observations?

>>>If it was say ONE space craft and they had to pull the freaking thing apart to survive in the harsh wilds, it wouldn't make sense that there would be much evidence.

1. Is there evidence of this, or is this another "what if" game?
2. Why would they then ignore things like how to survive, from agriculture to language- why would they dismantle the tools for survival, and revert to cavemen?

>>>Perhaps you can explain WHY not both theories CAN'T be true...

Because something can't happen both artifically and naturally at the exact same time. Simple, really.

>>>WHY, because we can now have designer babies

We've been over this- we cannot have designer babies right now- maybe in a few years, maybe in a few decades, maybe never- we don't know enough right now to be sure- but what we are sure of is we currently do not have the technology. Its like AI- its a thought of something we might have one day through research, but we don't really know....

>>>This is happening WITH OUT EVOLUTION

Using naturally forming cells isn't the same as making or maniplulating our own genes.

>>>They are taking out genes considered undesirable, and replacing them with ones they consider most desirable...

You really gotta stop mixing up your science fiction and theories.

Stem cells are the process where a cell gets assigned a job- like skin cells, liver cells, brain cells, ect- alot of this is through fetal research, since at the early stage a fetus is nothing but stem cells, but adults have these cells too. If I had a hole in my heart, and someone were to insert stem cells at the point of where the hole is, the stem cells would find heart cells nearby, and make the conclusion that thats what their job is now, and would close the gap. We don't assign stem cells- they do it on their own

Genetic Maniplulation is entirely different- your genes is basically the code on what makes you you. While we are experimenting with genes, its not as cut and dry as we'd have hoped- if you remove the gene that makes brown hair, you might also remove the gene that makes you abnormally smart. Equally, its been found that if you remove the gene for eyes, other genes will step in. There is a project that has been ongoing for decades called the "Human Genome Project", which is an attempt to identify what each of our 20,000 to 25,000 genes, and what they do. As of March 2008, after nearly 20 years, we've understood 92% of our genes

The American Association for the Advancement of Science has said on the issue of designer babies that it, "cannot presently be carried out safely and responsibly on human beings" and that "pressing moral concerns" have not yet been addressed

I cannot stress this enough- designer babies are science fiction, like teleportation, and warp speed.

>>>If this civilization was already billions of years ahead of us at the time they came along, their planet could long be gone, as are these beings...

But that requires assumption upon assumption upon assumption- First, we'd have to assume that the universe holds life outside of Earth, contradicting our own observations- then, we'd have to assume that there is some form of travel faster than light, contradicting Einstiens observations- then, we'd have to assume that they can survive in our enviroment, that their planet is close enough to have disappeared Millions of years ago, since otherwise we'd still receive their light- that they carried no diseases, or even microbal creatures- we have hundreds of creatures that feast off our dead skin, and are crawling on your face right now- why wouldn't other lifeforms? That they have technogy that can last thousands of years- our wires die out in about 100 years, and if you're in the void of space, you cannot simply mine for more metals to make them with. And you're also assuming their culture- that they destoryed their planet, that they fled it for safer grounds- you're assuming so very, very much its just not funny.

You have to contradict nearly everything we understand about the universe, solely because you cannot bare to imagine an universe where space creatures aren't hovering above you, and with absolutely no evidence at all that any of it is true.

>>> In fact you went so far as saying I made up a story...

YOU ARE!!

What evidence is there that an alien race, upon destorying their planet, raced over to Earth and altered a species to be more intelligent? Every single part of that IS MADE UP- you have no evidence of it, other than it feels like it could be true- your conviction- but no observations- no planet dying, no space creatures, no point where man requires space creatures to upgrade us, no space ship- NOTHING.

If you had something, anything- even an abductee who claimed they had a friendly chat with some aliens who told him their planet was destoryed- but instead, you're just making things up, and saying its just as plausible as things with REAL EVIDENCE.

>>>nor do I have time to say nah just because all these other people have experienced things that NO BODY can explain

1% of 1% of 1% of the general population of the United states(it gets even smaller when compared to the population of the Earth) is not a large enough stat to prove the existance of something- more people have clinically proven hallucinations than have an actual unexplainable events occur to them.

>>>... Guess we have a ways to go aye?

Yes, we do- and its through observations that we will make real progress- not assumptions.

>>>Thanks about Et. Al. It is used in legalise when used for cases, they actually do use periods...

Snap- I guess I was wrong in that case....

 nexthyme
Joined: 9/12/2007
Msg: 153
view profile
History
Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 12/22/2008 9:16:50 PM
SHUG, get into the now, we have designer babies NOW... Not as perfect as they want, but they sure as hell are doing a bang up job. Oh wait, guess since they didn't send out an email to all who say one theory can't exist with the other, you didn't get the news flash on it...

Yes, we have technology to make sure babies don't have certain genetic flaws, or deemed flaws. There are some things that they aren't able to do YET, but I assure you they are going on their marry way doing so... Perhaps it isn't wide known information, because since when has scientist ever announce something they haven't been sure wouldn't cause them a lot of issues with government rule... WELL in the US anyway.

The assumption, NOOOO I didn't make those up either... It is what I have read, researched, et al. Has it occurred to you, that I don't need to make up any of these stories, because there are others that are FAR greater at spelling out different ideas than I am... I am only following what I read, seen on Geo, science channel, A & E, History channel.

Thanks but spinning tales is not my thang, just don't have a need. Frankly I highly doubt that if your best friend said he had an experience you would tell him he wasn't doing some magic something, no matter how credible the story was.

As far as dying planet OHHHH come on, they have dying planets vicualized all the time... If it takes thousands to millions of light years to get this image, that planet has been LONG GONE...

You know the beauty of assumptions, BUT the really cool thing is, that it doesn't hurt anyone. There is nothing that a person has to be offended by, nor do they need to tear another's opinion down, simply because it goes against your core belief.

When the whole evolution thing got started it was built upon assumption, upon assumption, and yes more assumption. Then they decide that the museum of natural science didn't have the dinosaurs set up correctly. Hmmmm what is the deal of assumptions again?
 Serendipityone
Joined: 7/23/2006
Msg: 155
Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 12/25/2008 6:50:36 AM
I have no trouble believing we came from other more advanced species. It seems ridiculous and quite arrogant (in an ignorant way) for humans to think we are IT in this vast universe. For me personally, the fact that ETs are a part of our make-up makes so much more sense than other philosophies especially religious gobbledy-goop or atheism. My blood line traces to the Pleadians. They wish us to understand that we are waking up as co-creators, i.e. sovereign gods among other things.
 desertrhino
Joined: 11/30/2007
Msg: 157
view profile
History
Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 12/25/2008 9:09:00 AM
To the last two: *****LAUGHTER****

I guess serendipity doesn't understand how young the Pleiades are, and how inhospitable to anything resembling life that area of space is. But hey, it's the current New Age space-creature fad-source, so why not?

Rubber Soul? How terrible it must be for you, stuck down here with us mere humans. But I guess that does feed that intrinsic need most people have to feel "superior" to others in some way. If you can't BE superior, you may as well ACT superior.
 Serendipityone
Joined: 7/23/2006
Msg: 158
Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 12/25/2008 9:37:25 AM

I guess serendipity doesn't understand how young the Pleiades are, and how inhospitable to anything resembling life that area of space is. But hey, it's the current New Age space-creature fad-source, so why not?


Well, Thank You for that "insightful and informativeā€ comment ! *barf*
 transcend
Joined: 1/13/2007
Msg: 160
view profile
History
Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 12/26/2008 3:18:11 AM
watching people with different can openers arguing the superiority of their way of opening a can (to the point of forgetting to see whats inside) is almost as much fun as jumping in to champion my electric , given to my family by aliens from France....

whatever tool you use to best develop your own abilities , to best beat back the ego and ego demands , the success of your efforts seldom get viewed with fairness if there isn't tolerance for other paths... self control, when externally driven to the degree that marks you as a happy herd member, might keep you from endangering the group but I can't accept the obvious negative outcome of leaving each individual incapable of happiness that isnt tied to an immortality carrot and a stick of such immense torment that even the masochists are freaked... Is a chaos full of possibilites really that scary?

that the only solution leaves you a slave?

I can understand the need to connect so deeply with an idea that once you stop actively feeding the fire , you will have consumed the concept and now its your backbone and without it you are ramen in a world of soup bowls..
I know most of us feel superior to the monkey with the electrode gently exciting the pleasure center of his brain..and yet understand the logic of pressing the button that brings a very real jolt into his or her life but i will be damned if i will assist in setting myself up to live that way. i guess thats why i am here...to change the batteries

thats it.. Aliens invented batteries
 Jiperly
Joined: 8/30/2006
Msg: 161
Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 12/26/2008 12:47:38 PM
>>>I have no trouble believing we came from other more advanced species.

Really?? With no evidence at all supporting it, and a world of evidence pointing us to the idea that mankind evolved unassisted?

There is just as much evidence that mankind was created by space creatures as the idea that Battlestar Galactica could be based on true events. Do you think it ridiculous and arrogant if someone believes that the show was a science fiction, and not a documentary? Where do you draw the line between accepting all beliefs on equal grounds, and having solid, scientifc evidence to support your beliefs? As I've mentioned before- imagine the unnessary deaths if medical science follows your lead, and accepts any and all theories as fact.

>>>It seems ridiculous and quite arrogant (in an ignorant way) for humans to think we are IT in this vast universe.

And I think its ridiculous and arrogant (in an ignorant way) to look to the stars, finding nothing but a lifeless void with insane distances that is wholely and entirely hostile to the only form of life known to us, and say "there must be life out there"

Every planet, every solar system, and every Galaxy that we have found has always shown us the same truth- not only is there no life, but what is out there is viciously hostile to life. You ignore everything we know, everything we've observed, and declare its all wrong, but refuse to explain why- other than we're ignorant for not accepting your beliefs.

Thats not observing the universe as we see- thats projecting the universe as we'd like it to be. And no progress can be achieved through those actions.
 Jiperly
Joined: 8/30/2006
Msg: 163
Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 12/26/2008 3:33:14 PM
>>>I dont think i can agree with this at all, i mean think about it really how far have we been and how far can we truly see?

I didn't say anything incorrect- the known universe is a void the size of which is incredibly humbling to even begin to comprehend, and everywhere we look, we find that, if we were to transfer any life there, it would die a quick death.

I'm not saying there is no chance that life exists out there- I'm saying theres no EVIDENCE of it, and all the observations of the universe can only lead to a single conclusion- that the universe is hostile to the only known form of life. Any other conclusion is not based on observation of our universe, but projecting our wants and desires onto it.

>>>Now who is to say what we know is 100% right and on point.

I'm well aware of that possiblity- if the facts were to change in the future, I am certainly willing to re-evaluate my opinion. Hell, I'd welcome it- I love the idea of space exploration and aliens. But I'm not going to accept any and all claims with equal merit. Its either we judge our reality on observation- on how the universe is- or we are projecting it to be as we wish it could be. And I'm sad to say what we've observed shows a barren and lifeless void. Asking me to accept your conviction that there is extraterrestial life in the universe is asking me to ignore our own observations, under the doctrine that we are ignorant for accepting what we've observed as true.
 nexthyme
Joined: 9/12/2007
Msg: 164
view profile
History
Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 12/26/2008 5:14:59 PM
Jiperly we haven't even ventured out of our own puny little solar system... Now you are saying we know that all the universe, which has as many stars as grains of sand is a hostile environment, thus we can only conclude the whole thing is that was. We haven't seen diddly, haven't even touched down on any other planet except Mars, and even then haven't seen if there was/is life of some type on it.

This is what you stated
And I think its ridiculous and arrogant (in an ignorant way) to look to the stars, finding nothing but a lifeless void with insane distances that is wholely and entirely hostile to the only form of life known to us, and say "there must be life out there"Every planet, every solar system, and every Galaxy that we have found has always shown us the same truth- not only is there no life, but what is out there is viciously hostile to life.


Then go on to say
But I'm not going to accept any and all claims with equal merit


You accept NO claims, and then fight hard to discredit anything others present. Especially if you think in science terms about the planets that have demised, which have been gone for thousands of years before they were detected. Therefore how can you say there wasn't life on that planet???

Our own sun is scheduled to burn out in the next 3 to 4 million years, when that happens good by earth... Do you think it is plausible that in that amount of time we may venture on to some other planet?

The "what ifs" are the building blocks to explorations, creation, imagining further. So even when some says they are willing to BELIEVE, you come on to shoot them down, and say they can't believe that, because their is NO PROOF...

We have past history that has been written, it gives proof, that you dispute and say no, that is not right, not POSSIBLE, not something you can count on in the least.

This is because
Asking me to accept your conviction that there is extraterrestial life in the universe is asking me to ignore our own observations, under the doctrine that we are ignorant for accepting what we've observed as true.


A good portion of scientist believe that these other universes we see have a primordial soup brewing, like our own completely inhospitably earth used to be. By this point of seeing that planet through all the light years, perhaps evolution has occurred but we don't know, because of the time it takes just to see them.

Since we have no ability to see these planets real time, or even the systems so far away we can't see them, we really don't have any idea what kind of life is on them. However I guess those scientist are all full of poo because YOU say
not only is there no life, but what is out there is viciously hostile to life.
(remember you did agree that on our own planet life is in some very inhospitable places here???? So why not in the great void of YOUR nothingness)

Here is the funny part, NO BODY is asking you to accept THEIR OWN opinion, you make it your point to tell every one possible that they are all wrong. Well with the exception of me that got into a debate with you, BECAUSE it is really great practice for ME to debate and learn to critically seek out YOUR flaw thinking.

I am SURE YOU DON'T in the least think you have any flaws in your argument, that is ok... People can't debate forever, but when you start stating things that not everybody in the great science world believes, then I will step into the fray again, because people besides yourself have a RIGHT to voice their OWN opinion, and not be kicked in the shins because it doesn't agree with your thought.

These posters aren't asking if YOU agree, or not, but stating an opinion. Unless they specifically state your ID, they are just voicing THEIR opinion. Not expecting someone to tell them how wrong they are.

I have told you before, I am NOT HERE to change anybodies thinking, I started out just voicing an asked opinion...
 stargazer1000
Joined: 1/16/2008
Msg: 165
Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 12/26/2008 9:16:15 PM

My blood line traces to the Pleadians. They wish us to understand that we are waking up as co-creators, i.e. sovereign gods among other things.


Oy! Oh how this harkens back to a previous post I started about the Pleiades. Not that you want to hear this but the Pleiades just aren't what you think they are. And they don't have to be. Simply put, they're a young cluster of stars formed out of the same nebulae and young enough to still be bound mutually by gravity. They've been observed for four centuries, since the invention of the telescope. They're still ensconced in the remnants of the nebula that they formed in. I've even looked through a telescope and seen it.

This process is well understood. It's a pretty safe estimate to say that no advanced civilization has had any kind of chance to form there yet, let alone "communicate" with us.


Well, Thank You for that "insightful and informativeā€ comment ! *barf*


Yeah, well there you go. Of course, what you choose to believe is up to you. Of course, an open mind is far more helpful for learning.
Show ALL Forums  > Science/philosophy  >