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Show ALL Forums  > Science/philosophy  > being gay - genetic or social      Home login  
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 Dreaming-cynic
Joined: 1/28/2007
Msg: 26
being gay - genetic or social Page 2 of 8    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8)
It can be influenced by both genetics and environment; a perfect questions would be, how is sexual attraction decided?

Sexual attraction is decided by physical attraction, tone of voice and smell, therefore you apply this to a gay man or woman and they are reacting on their biolgical nature. Now attraction can be decided by some many factors religion, culture and even upbringing so it really depends but those are just the basics.
 CbrBass
Joined: 9/21/2008
Msg: 27
being gay - genetic or social
Posted: 12/31/2008 1:20:43 AM

Being gay is a personal choice

Silliest thing I ever heard. I'm straight, and I never chose it. There was never a day when I went "hmm, shall I become straight or gay? Decisions decisions! I think I'll be straight."

Absolute nonsense.
 Merrylass
Joined: 12/30/2007
Msg: 28
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being gay - genetic or social
Posted: 12/31/2008 7:17:26 AM
@ CbrBass


What's the survival advantage (living well and producing healthy offspring)

Hmmm. Lessee. Humans survive not because of physical superiority but because of their mental abilities. We have no claws or fangs - all we got is brains. Being gay does not preclude having a good brain. Nor does being barren, nor even, now, spending a lifetime in a wheelchair a la Dr. Hawking. 'Survival of the fittest' refers to species - our particular species requires highly developed brains to survive. The knowledge from all brains, even those of non-procreative humans, can help to further our species. And now, due to that very ingenuity, we are able to assist homosexuals who wish to procreate so we continue to enhance our ability to create and maintain humans with brains.


Some argue that sexuality is determined by our genes but if that were the case then homosexuality would have probably evolved out of the human genome by now.

That makes no sense.

@Bright1Raziel - spell check is your friend.


so homosexuality might simply be determined by a mother not ingesting the right raw materials to match the sex of the baby with it's sexuality in later life.

Wow. Where do people come up with these things?

How come nobody's mentioned Masters & Johnson and the Kinsey Scale?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinsey_Reports#Sexual_orientation
They concluded that the majority of people lay on a continuum between straight and gay and that a minority of people were exclusively one or the other.
 Merrylass
Joined: 12/30/2007
Msg: 29
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being gay - genetic or social
Posted: 1/1/2009 12:59:18 AM
There are few parents who haven't tales about their little kids diddling themselves. Of course we don't have it 'at birth' but it doesn't take too long to begin. I had crushes from about the age of five onward - always on men. I've never been attracted to a female but I know there are lots of women who have been.

Someone I know only realized he was gay when he started figuring out that photos of men turned him on. He didn't choose that any more than I chose to be attracted to men. It is innate to both of us. And science has come up with more proofs; genes may be a determinant but not the only one. However things like relative finger length (demonstrated to be found in lesbian women) have to be genetic. And nobody's going to come up with proof that eating more hamburgers will shrink the longer finger and equalize the fingers and at the same time turn the person straight

Certainly, there's plasticity and certainly there's some modification of genes but doubtless some genes are resistant to modification (you gonna grow yourself another eye maybe? ) and I imagine plasticity will stretch only so far.
 selfsong
Joined: 8/8/2007
Msg: 30
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being gay - genetic or social
Posted: 1/2/2009 4:43:02 PM
OP

I do not know and dont care! I am sure in the future they will discover if genetic or social then offer a "cure" to those who feel they want/need it. Until then (again) I dont care, not a choice I need to make and none of my biz....Live as you are.
 FrogO_Oeyes
Joined: 8/21/2005
Msg: 31
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being gay - genetic or social
Posted: 1/2/2009 9:09:20 PM
I think it is most likely that homosexuality is primarily the result of multiple genes in action, with secondary social/environmental influences. Half a dozen genes could each separately provide a survival advantage, but on the rare occasions they occur together, they interact with a likely result being homosexuality. The combination may not be evolutionarily advantageous, but because each gene separately is, the combination continues to recur.

A simple comparison is sickle cell anemia: two recessive genes are fatal and the individual is not likely to reproduce. In most of the world, two dominant genes will be the norm, with recessive genes slowly "weeded out". In the tropics, principally Africa, the story is different. Two recessive genes are still fatal, but the combination of recessive and dominant genes gives protection from malaria. Variety is favored because the extremes are at a selective disadvantage. They still, however, continue to "pop up".
 Confident-Realist
Joined: 2/8/2004
Msg: 32
being gay - genetic or social
Posted: 1/3/2009 3:25:52 PM
I'm sure all the details will be worked out, but it's a biological thing. One thing many people don't know is that many experiences you have in life can turn on or off certain genes. Environment has a biological impact.

Religious wacko ideals and my comments on them (mainly in reference to guys, me being straight guy):
1. "Being gay is a choice" - Complete and utter nonsense. I'm hetero, and I couldn't possibly fool myself into liking dudes. Sorry. I don't have that choice. It's not my choice to like chicks. It's not my choice to not like eating rotten meat. You can tell some guys are gay when they're very young -- you know, the kid who skips rope with a pink colored one until he's 14 -- and not predisposed to anything 'gay' -- yeah, he's gay. Yep, it was biological. Mr. Religious Zealot, are you saying that it's a temptation you're resisting? Or that you could be put in a position where you could end up making out with a guy named Frank and chugging his rhubarb? (shudder)

2. "Being gay is an action" - Wrong. Hetero or Homo is about attraction, not an action. So I wasn't heterosexual UNTIL I lost my virginity or landed my first kiss with a gal? Liking girls and only girls -- I'm hetero, whether I'm getting any action or not.

3. "Being gay is a temptation" - Stupid. Not for straight people, sorry. For those in which it is a temptation -- you ARE gay and always will be, sorry. Again, just because after a guy gets dumped by his girlfriend and sulks for a year and just watches porn, doesn't make him less hetero because he's not getting any physical action from the ladies -- it's not an action, it's an attraction. If it's a temptation, that means you have an attraction, which means you're gay. For those of us who don't have that temptation (straight), are you saying they can become gay? Can you, Mr. Religious Zealot?

4. "Being gay is a fetish" - No. For some half-bi people, sure, maybe the 'gay side of the plate' could be see something close to that, if they are afraid to have one of their legs out of the closet. For straight people? No. It's not being straight, so therefore, it's not a fetish for straight people. It's not something 'naughty' to do for us straight people. You have to be WIRED differently to actually enjoy and be attracted to that sort of stuff, sorry. Maybe you, Mr. Religious Zealot see it as something 'a little out there' like Dominatrix stuff in which it just doesn't turn you on -- but for me, it's conceptually different than that -- it's against my inner desires and it's a repulsion emotionally.

Bottom line -- you're wired differently if you're gay. It's a biological thing, which to some degree, could be brought on thru environment with guys. I think there's a difference between girls and guys tho (we ARE different genders, so that's not such a fantastic thing to say). I think many girls are predisposed to have the potential of being a little bi in a side-dish sort of way.

Many deaf women are bi or gay. Deaf guys? Not so much. It's an interesting example of social effects with women... along with "Prison Gay" where one is cut off from the opposite sex -- some may gain sexual satisfaction from the same sex. Personally, I think they're slightly bi and that just comes out.
 FrogO_Oeyes
Joined: 8/21/2005
Msg: 33
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being gay - genetic or social
Posted: 1/4/2009 9:04:28 PM
Clearly, liking men is a deviation by choice which requires correcting that choice. Women should decide to be male and acquire an interest in females instead.

After all,

If we are human, being superior that is superior beings, we are capable of being what ever want to be if we want to be it bad enough...its a matter of will.
 Merrylass
Joined: 12/30/2007
Msg: 34
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being gay - genetic or social
Posted: 1/7/2009 8:25:47 PM

If you look at our closest of cousins they are widely based on the alpha system so if a male were born with a 'gay' gene it's highly unlikely he would have risen to alpha status to be able to pass on this gene.
I could go on and on about why a 'gay' gene would have evolved of the human makeup but if you don't understand about genes or evolution there's very little point.

Your theory is, simply, false. We haven't bred infertility out of humanity, have we? It may be that the infertile or gay individual doesn't pass on his DNA (though plenty of gay people marry anyway, ya know) but the genes that created the infertile or gay person get passed on through their relatives.

If your basic assumption, is that your 'alpha system' means that all 'non-functional' genes have been bred out, then clearly your basic assumption is false. We in fact may now have more diseases, conditions, and congenital ailments than humans ever had.


If we are human, being superior that is superior beings, we are capable of being what ever want to be if we want to be it bad enough...its a matter of will

I promise you that no amount of will will turn you into a Michael Phelps or a Lance Armstrong. Nor will you become a Halle Berry or a Gwynneth Paltrow. You are what you are. You can work real hard and get somewhat better at being you but you can't become something you are not. You are not able to rewire your body.

BTW, who says we're that 'superior'? We're killing ourselves off and destroying our home in the process. Then again, the 'alpha' theory of buddy up there may hold for our species; we may end human existence thus preventing passing on all our insanity.
 bigshrek
Joined: 11/15/2007
Msg: 35
being gay - genetic or social
Posted: 1/7/2009 8:36:08 PM
The answer is BOTH.

For some it's a choice, (like Lindsey Lohan, who was most certainly straight until her last b/f peeved her off by calling her a fire-crotch skank on national tv at Paris Hilton's Bequest...which led to Lindsey eschewing males because they kept screwing her over after they screwed her) and girls who are "Lesbian For College" because they don't want to get knocked up before getting their degree and a career. Those are choices.

For others, like Perez Hilton & Melissa Etheridge, obviously are born gay.

Does it really matter? Nope, because either way, we end up with Flaming types who annoy the heck out of everyone because they try to act more feminine than bleach-blonde cheerleaders on speed.

The question needs to be...is ACTING like a flamer social or genetic?

The answer to that...SOCIAL!!

 designingwoman
Joined: 9/4/2005
Msg: 36
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being gay - genetic or social
Posted: 1/8/2009 6:27:53 PM
Genetic. People are born with their sexual orientation. From early childhood Iknew I liked looking at men thus I was born heterosexual. So it would stand to reason that gay folks are born that way.
 Merrylass
Joined: 12/30/2007
Msg: 37
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being gay - genetic or social
Posted: 1/10/2009 11:12:57 AM
Really, people who choose names like 'chainsaw' or 'killer' or anything else creepy and violent aren't really advertising themselves as balanced, fair, altruistic humans so these rants are hardly a surprise.

The entire content of both your posts = great steaming piles of horse crap but it'd take hours to refute all the bogus claims. However, I love posts like this because they let you know the true nature of the writer and therefore who to avoid.
 10of6
Joined: 8/27/2008
Msg: 38
being gay - genetic or social
Posted: 1/10/2009 2:22:15 PM
If people can fall in love with inanimate objects, people can fall in love with anything and anyone. Narcissus fell in love with his reflection--okay, that's Greek mythology, but you get my drift, eh?
 designingwoman
Joined: 9/4/2005
Msg: 39
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being gay - genetic or social
Posted: 1/10/2009 7:37:37 PM
Mackow? Sounds more like mad cow What a sick jerk!

Or should I call him Wackow?

You know something, I bet he was bullied constantly when he was a kid because of his weird name. So he now bullies against gay people. Makes perfect sense to me!!
 designingwoman
Joined: 9/4/2005
Msg: 40
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being gay - genetic or social
Posted: 1/12/2009 3:57:15 PM
Hi David,

Thank you for expressing your opinion in a polite and thoughtful way.

Well well well, we can see who has no sense of humor! Mackow's name is ripe for jokes And what he says is far from the truth.
 luckygreentiger
Joined: 1/5/2009
Msg: 41
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being gay - genetic or social
Posted: 1/12/2009 8:12:28 PM
i believe that sexuality is mostly biologically caused. some people i've known have "gone gay" because of abuse but those that i've met have been in a great minority and from my interaction with them i often wonder if there aren't deeper issues. from the current research it seems most of human traits are from an interplay of genes and i believe that sexuality is no different. studies of yeast has shown that external environmental factors can also turn genes on/off. i think most people that say sexuality is a choice either use it as an excuse for their hatred/actions or lack of intellectual honesty to do some honest to goodness research.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/dec/01/homosexuality-genetics-usa
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biology_and_sexual_orientation
 compleat_man
Joined: 10/3/2008
Msg: 42
being gay - genetic or social
Posted: 1/13/2009 11:04:03 AM

How come two people from the same gender can fall in love? Is it happen as a result of social development (environment, society etc.) or its genetic?


and..what difference does it make, really?

are you implying that if genetic, it is 'acceptable'?

but if not (conditioned) it is OK to hate/disrespect or be intolerant of homosexuality?

not sure where you're going here..what the "point" is of trying to determine this?

if genetic, try to 'screen' for it and abort those babies with this tendency? (eugenics of a sort)?
 luckygreentiger
Joined: 1/5/2009
Msg: 43
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being gay - genetic or social
Posted: 1/13/2009 7:38:41 PM


being gay is a choice in my opinion, if humans were meant to be gay there wouldn't be 2 genders. i also believe it's about the way you were raised as a child, there's alot of factors that could make one homosexual. but i still stand strong in my belief that it's a choice. and besides how the heck could you tell the difference between a gay baby and a straight one? it makes no sense to me. and not to mention i have no interest in doing research on homosexuality.


no, it's apparent that you make your decisions on truthiness rather than research and proved my point
 bleeptwo
Joined: 11/29/2005
Msg: 44
being gay - genetic or social
Posted: 1/17/2009 3:36:28 AM
It is a combination of both actualy and it depends on the individual.
 compleat_man
Joined: 10/3/2008
Msg: 45
being gay - genetic or social
Posted: 1/17/2009 8:23:44 AM

i guess i was just raised differntly than you were. i'm pro-choice about alot of things, but i still don't feel it's morally right.


and how do you feel "morally" about murder, rape, robbery, theft, swindlers, child molesters, warmongers, con artists (like the Enron & Worldcom Boards of Directors and most of the management team), and much of Wall Street - the con artists who came up with "high-ratio mortgages" and will now swindle US taxpayers out of about US$ 700 billion, etc.

I would think that the 'moral outrage' applied to homosexuality should come pretty far down on your list.
 Merrylass
Joined: 12/30/2007
Msg: 46
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being gay - genetic or social
Posted: 1/17/2009 8:46:19 PM

There is no way to settle this question to most people's satisfaction..

Um. Yeah, there is. There's those crazy things called 'science' and 'fact'.


being gay is a choice in my opinion


See above. Your 'opinion' is worth zip in a world of fact and science.
 Inicia
Joined: 12/21/2007
Msg: 47
being gay - genetic or social
Posted: 2/7/2009 12:44:34 AM
So many posts. are breeders trying to brainwash homosexuals. Mostly I see representations of straight people. Its pretty hard to find a good gay role model. ( so far I have heard on this post as examples of gay people, feminized men, masculinized woman, deviant, needing cures, defective, mentally ill, stigmatized, barren, child molestors, unhappy feminist, prisoners etc) Even a "choice to be gay" would be in the absence of a functional social structure to do so... Unlike heterosexuality with a strong social structure in support of its ideology and gender roles. LOL on the vagina monologues being a lesbian diatribe. OMG. I guess I am really obtuse cause I don't see it. But then I'm not recruiting or defending just experiencing. What causes neural responses? I guess at the most basic level is our receptors percieving stimuli.
 60to70
Joined: 7/28/2008
Msg: 48
being gay - genetic or social
Posted: 2/8/2009 9:07:58 PM
What initiates a neural-chemical response? I do not care. I do not care. I do not care. I am heterosexual but what does that mean? Heterosexuals also experience bi-sexual responses. And if you are gay, good. But after a certain point...lets stop discussing the whole shebang. Do your thing, be a thinking , vital and smart contributor to this strange mess called life and don't tell me about your sexual life. I do not care. lol. Oh sorry, I care if somebody attempts to intefere with your right to be gay, but otherwise jump on the human bandwagon and contribute intelligence rather than sexuality issues. Sexuality gets plain tiresome.
 WanderingRain
Joined: 3/9/2008
Msg: 49
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being gay - genetic or social
Posted: 2/9/2009 6:03:04 PM
Yes, we have a lesbian dog. YOu should see her in action. All she needs is a strap-on.
People say it's a domination trait she's displaying. It's still funny. Yes, there's plenty of that in the animal world.
 WanderingRain
Joined: 3/9/2008
Msg: 50
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being gay - genetic or social
Posted: 2/9/2009 6:20:11 PM
If science find a way to fix this then who knows there would be huge line ups in front of clinics....its about bringing them the option...but I don't think any body is working on this issue...and that is sad!


Actually... Science is fixing it... just in the way you may not expect. It's called sex-change.
I actually fell for a woman who I was told later was formerly a guy. And the science is so good now... you go, Really??? Daaamn! She's prettier and more sexy than MOST women.

Of course, in the end, so what if she was formerly a guy? She's still hot. Doesn't have the adam's apple, hips and all the "man-like" visual cues. She doesn't talk or move like a gay man. She just talks and acts... girl-like.

I guess it's just like being with a girl who was just sterile and can't give birth, is how I see it now.
Of course, she's the exception.
I'm still a guy so I wouldn't go out with someone who obviously still looks like a dude.

Here's a mind bender: Assuming both are attracted to you and want to be with you, bad:
Would you date a transgendered girl who is drop dead sexy (none of the usual "man-trait" cues) or would you date a real girl but is 500 pounds? haha. gotcha, eh?
Women can make the equivalent scenario...
But then, women seem to be far more forgiving of this than men.
I wonder why?
Most aggression on homosexuals are perpetrated by guys.
Is it ego? Is it just a trait drilled into us by some religious fascist dogma to treat different people with contempt?
Yesterday, it was Samaritans, Gentiles, Irishmen... Italians... Jews... Blacks... Latinos...
When you look at it, it's the same people peddling the hate once again. The same type of people who supported beating marchers in Alabama.
They hide behind their "moral code" or "religious teaching" as a reason to hate people.
Yes, you know who you are, you hater, you... :)


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