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Show ALL Forums  > Science/philosophy  > being gay - genetic or social      Home login  
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 FrogO_Oeyes
Joined: 8/21/2005
Msg: 31
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being gay - genetic or social Page 6 of 8    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8)
I think it is most likely that homosexuality is primarily the result of multiple genes in action, with secondary social/environmental influences. Half a dozen genes could each separately provide a survival advantage, but on the rare occasions they occur together, they interact with a likely result being homosexuality. The combination may not be evolutionarily advantageous, but because each gene separately is, the combination continues to recur.

A simple comparison is sickle cell anemia: two recessive genes are fatal and the individual is not likely to reproduce. In most of the world, two dominant genes will be the norm, with recessive genes slowly "weeded out". In the tropics, principally Africa, the story is different. Two recessive genes are still fatal, but the combination of recessive and dominant genes gives protection from malaria. Variety is favored because the extremes are at a selective disadvantage. They still, however, continue to "pop up".
 Confident-Realist
Joined: 2/8/2004
Msg: 32
being gay - genetic or social
Posted: 1/3/2009 3:25:52 PM
I'm sure all the details will be worked out, but it's a biological thing. One thing many people don't know is that many experiences you have in life can turn on or off certain genes. Environment has a biological impact.

Religious wacko ideals and my comments on them (mainly in reference to guys, me being straight guy):
1. "Being gay is a choice" - Complete and utter nonsense. I'm hetero, and I couldn't possibly fool myself into liking dudes. Sorry. I don't have that choice. It's not my choice to like chicks. It's not my choice to not like eating rotten meat. You can tell some guys are gay when they're very young -- you know, the kid who skips rope with a pink colored one until he's 14 -- and not predisposed to anything 'gay' -- yeah, he's gay. Yep, it was biological. Mr. Religious Zealot, are you saying that it's a temptation you're resisting? Or that you could be put in a position where you could end up making out with a guy named Frank and chugging his rhubarb? (shudder)

2. "Being gay is an action" - Wrong. Hetero or Homo is about attraction, not an action. So I wasn't heterosexual UNTIL I lost my virginity or landed my first kiss with a gal? Liking girls and only girls -- I'm hetero, whether I'm getting any action or not.

3. "Being gay is a temptation" - Stupid. Not for straight people, sorry. For those in which it is a temptation -- you ARE gay and always will be, sorry. Again, just because after a guy gets dumped by his girlfriend and sulks for a year and just watches porn, doesn't make him less hetero because he's not getting any physical action from the ladies -- it's not an action, it's an attraction. If it's a temptation, that means you have an attraction, which means you're gay. For those of us who don't have that temptation (straight), are you saying they can become gay? Can you, Mr. Religious Zealot?

4. "Being gay is a fetish" - No. For some half-bi people, sure, maybe the 'gay side of the plate' could be see something close to that, if they are afraid to have one of their legs out of the closet. For straight people? No. It's not being straight, so therefore, it's not a fetish for straight people. It's not something 'naughty' to do for us straight people. You have to be WIRED differently to actually enjoy and be attracted to that sort of stuff, sorry. Maybe you, Mr. Religious Zealot see it as something 'a little out there' like Dominatrix stuff in which it just doesn't turn you on -- but for me, it's conceptually different than that -- it's against my inner desires and it's a repulsion emotionally.

Bottom line -- you're wired differently if you're gay. It's a biological thing, which to some degree, could be brought on thru environment with guys. I think there's a difference between girls and guys tho (we ARE different genders, so that's not such a fantastic thing to say). I think many girls are predisposed to have the potential of being a little bi in a side-dish sort of way.

Many deaf women are bi or gay. Deaf guys? Not so much. It's an interesting example of social effects with women... along with "Prison Gay" where one is cut off from the opposite sex -- some may gain sexual satisfaction from the same sex. Personally, I think they're slightly bi and that just comes out.
 FrogO_Oeyes
Joined: 8/21/2005
Msg: 33
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being gay - genetic or social
Posted: 1/4/2009 9:04:28 PM
Clearly, liking men is a deviation by choice which requires correcting that choice. Women should decide to be male and acquire an interest in females instead.

After all,

If we are human, being superior that is superior beings, we are capable of being what ever want to be if we want to be it bad enough...its a matter of will.
 Merrylass
Joined: 12/30/2007
Msg: 34
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being gay - genetic or social
Posted: 1/7/2009 8:25:47 PM

If you look at our closest of cousins they are widely based on the alpha system so if a male were born with a 'gay' gene it's highly unlikely he would have risen to alpha status to be able to pass on this gene.
I could go on and on about why a 'gay' gene would have evolved of the human makeup but if you don't understand about genes or evolution there's very little point.

Your theory is, simply, false. We haven't bred infertility out of humanity, have we? It may be that the infertile or gay individual doesn't pass on his DNA (though plenty of gay people marry anyway, ya know) but the genes that created the infertile or gay person get passed on through their relatives.

If your basic assumption, is that your 'alpha system' means that all 'non-functional' genes have been bred out, then clearly your basic assumption is false. We in fact may now have more diseases, conditions, and congenital ailments than humans ever had.


If we are human, being superior that is superior beings, we are capable of being what ever want to be if we want to be it bad enough...its a matter of will

I promise you that no amount of will will turn you into a Michael Phelps or a Lance Armstrong. Nor will you become a Halle Berry or a Gwynneth Paltrow. You are what you are. You can work real hard and get somewhat better at being you but you can't become something you are not. You are not able to rewire your body.

BTW, who says we're that 'superior'? We're killing ourselves off and destroying our home in the process. Then again, the 'alpha' theory of buddy up there may hold for our species; we may end human existence thus preventing passing on all our insanity.
 bigshrek
Joined: 11/15/2007
Msg: 35
being gay - genetic or social
Posted: 1/7/2009 8:36:08 PM
The answer is BOTH.

For some it's a choice, (like Lindsey Lohan, who was most certainly straight until her last b/f peeved her off by calling her a fire-crotch skank on national tv at Paris Hilton's Bequest...which led to Lindsey eschewing males because they kept screwing her over after they screwed her) and girls who are "Lesbian For College" because they don't want to get knocked up before getting their degree and a career. Those are choices.

For others, like Perez Hilton & Melissa Etheridge, obviously are born gay.

Does it really matter? Nope, because either way, we end up with Flaming types who annoy the heck out of everyone because they try to act more feminine than bleach-blonde cheerleaders on speed.

The question needs to be...is ACTING like a flamer social or genetic?

The answer to that...SOCIAL!!

 designingwoman
Joined: 9/4/2005
Msg: 36
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being gay - genetic or social
Posted: 1/8/2009 6:27:53 PM
Genetic. People are born with their sexual orientation. From early childhood Iknew I liked looking at men thus I was born heterosexual. So it would stand to reason that gay folks are born that way.
 Merrylass
Joined: 12/30/2007
Msg: 37
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being gay - genetic or social
Posted: 1/10/2009 11:12:57 AM
Really, people who choose names like 'chainsaw' or 'killer' or anything else creepy and violent aren't really advertising themselves as balanced, fair, altruistic humans so these rants are hardly a surprise.

The entire content of both your posts = great steaming piles of horse crap but it'd take hours to refute all the bogus claims. However, I love posts like this because they let you know the true nature of the writer and therefore who to avoid.
 10of6
Joined: 8/27/2008
Msg: 38
being gay - genetic or social
Posted: 1/10/2009 2:22:15 PM
If people can fall in love with inanimate objects, people can fall in love with anything and anyone. Narcissus fell in love with his reflection--okay, that's Greek mythology, but you get my drift, eh?
 designingwoman
Joined: 9/4/2005
Msg: 39
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being gay - genetic or social
Posted: 1/10/2009 7:37:37 PM
Mackow? Sounds more like mad cow What a sick jerk!

Or should I call him Wackow?

You know something, I bet he was bullied constantly when he was a kid because of his weird name. So he now bullies against gay people. Makes perfect sense to me!!
 designingwoman
Joined: 9/4/2005
Msg: 40
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being gay - genetic or social
Posted: 1/12/2009 3:57:15 PM
Hi David,

Thank you for expressing your opinion in a polite and thoughtful way.

Well well well, we can see who has no sense of humor! Mackow's name is ripe for jokes And what he says is far from the truth.
 luckygreentiger
Joined: 1/5/2009
Msg: 41
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being gay - genetic or social
Posted: 1/12/2009 8:12:28 PM
i believe that sexuality is mostly biologically caused. some people i've known have "gone gay" because of abuse but those that i've met have been in a great minority and from my interaction with them i often wonder if there aren't deeper issues. from the current research it seems most of human traits are from an interplay of genes and i believe that sexuality is no different. studies of yeast has shown that external environmental factors can also turn genes on/off. i think most people that say sexuality is a choice either use it as an excuse for their hatred/actions or lack of intellectual honesty to do some honest to goodness research.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/dec/01/homosexuality-genetics-usa
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biology_and_sexual_orientation
 compleat_man
Joined: 10/3/2008
Msg: 42
being gay - genetic or social
Posted: 1/13/2009 11:04:03 AM

How come two people from the same gender can fall in love? Is it happen as a result of social development (environment, society etc.) or its genetic?


and..what difference does it make, really?

are you implying that if genetic, it is 'acceptable'?

but if not (conditioned) it is OK to hate/disrespect or be intolerant of homosexuality?

not sure where you're going here..what the "point" is of trying to determine this?

if genetic, try to 'screen' for it and abort those babies with this tendency? (eugenics of a sort)?
 luckygreentiger
Joined: 1/5/2009
Msg: 43
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being gay - genetic or social
Posted: 1/13/2009 7:38:41 PM


being gay is a choice in my opinion, if humans were meant to be gay there wouldn't be 2 genders. i also believe it's about the way you were raised as a child, there's alot of factors that could make one homosexual. but i still stand strong in my belief that it's a choice. and besides how the heck could you tell the difference between a gay baby and a straight one? it makes no sense to me. and not to mention i have no interest in doing research on homosexuality.


no, it's apparent that you make your decisions on truthiness rather than research and proved my point
 bleeptwo
Joined: 11/29/2005
Msg: 44
being gay - genetic or social
Posted: 1/17/2009 3:36:28 AM
It is a combination of both actualy and it depends on the individual.
 compleat_man
Joined: 10/3/2008
Msg: 45
being gay - genetic or social
Posted: 1/17/2009 8:23:44 AM

i guess i was just raised differntly than you were. i'm pro-choice about alot of things, but i still don't feel it's morally right.


and how do you feel "morally" about murder, rape, robbery, theft, swindlers, child molesters, warmongers, con artists (like the Enron & Worldcom Boards of Directors and most of the management team), and much of Wall Street - the con artists who came up with "high-ratio mortgages" and will now swindle US taxpayers out of about US$ 700 billion, etc.

I would think that the 'moral outrage' applied to homosexuality should come pretty far down on your list.
 Merrylass
Joined: 12/30/2007
Msg: 46
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being gay - genetic or social
Posted: 1/17/2009 8:46:19 PM

There is no way to settle this question to most people's satisfaction..

Um. Yeah, there is. There's those crazy things called 'science' and 'fact'.


being gay is a choice in my opinion


See above. Your 'opinion' is worth zip in a world of fact and science.
 60to70
Joined: 7/28/2008
Msg: 48
being gay - genetic or social
Posted: 2/8/2009 9:07:58 PM
What initiates a neural-chemical response? I do not care. I do not care. I do not care. I am heterosexual but what does that mean? Heterosexuals also experience bi-sexual responses. And if you are gay, good. But after a certain point...lets stop discussing the whole shebang. Do your thing, be a thinking , vital and smart contributor to this strange mess called life and don't tell me about your sexual life. I do not care. lol. Oh sorry, I care if somebody attempts to intefere with your right to be gay, but otherwise jump on the human bandwagon and contribute intelligence rather than sexuality issues. Sexuality gets plain tiresome.
 WanderingRain
Joined: 3/9/2008
Msg: 49
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being gay - genetic or social
Posted: 2/9/2009 6:03:04 PM
Yes, we have a lesbian dog. YOu should see her in action. All she needs is a strap-on.
People say it's a domination trait she's displaying. It's still funny. Yes, there's plenty of that in the animal world.
 WanderingRain
Joined: 3/9/2008
Msg: 50
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being gay - genetic or social
Posted: 2/9/2009 6:20:11 PM
If science find a way to fix this then who knows there would be huge line ups in front of clinics....its about bringing them the option...but I don't think any body is working on this issue...and that is sad!


Actually... Science is fixing it... just in the way you may not expect. It's called sex-change.
I actually fell for a woman who I was told later was formerly a guy. And the science is so good now... you go, Really??? Daaamn! She's prettier and more sexy than MOST women.

Of course, in the end, so what if she was formerly a guy? She's still hot. Doesn't have the adam's apple, hips and all the "man-like" visual cues. She doesn't talk or move like a gay man. She just talks and acts... girl-like.

I guess it's just like being with a girl who was just sterile and can't give birth, is how I see it now.
Of course, she's the exception.
I'm still a guy so I wouldn't go out with someone who obviously still looks like a dude.

Here's a mind bender: Assuming both are attracted to you and want to be with you, bad:
Would you date a transgendered girl who is drop dead sexy (none of the usual "man-trait" cues) or would you date a real girl but is 500 pounds? haha. gotcha, eh?
Women can make the equivalent scenario...
But then, women seem to be far more forgiving of this than men.
I wonder why?
Most aggression on homosexuals are perpetrated by guys.
Is it ego? Is it just a trait drilled into us by some religious fascist dogma to treat different people with contempt?
Yesterday, it was Samaritans, Gentiles, Irishmen... Italians... Jews... Blacks... Latinos...
When you look at it, it's the same people peddling the hate once again. The same type of people who supported beating marchers in Alabama.
They hide behind their "moral code" or "religious teaching" as a reason to hate people.
Yes, you know who you are, you hater, you... :)


 Twill348
Joined: 12/20/2008
Msg: 52
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being gay - genetic or social
Posted: 2/11/2009 5:20:22 PM
They found the shyness gene. They would have foiund it sooner, but it was hiding behind a couple of other genes.
 Azazel6669
Joined: 2/2/2009
Msg: 53
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being gay - genetic or social
Posted: 2/11/2009 6:19:59 PM
This is my opinion. I don't care what you think or how you view me. My foster brother was gay (he died from Pancreatitis back in 2006). The latest imperical evidence does show that it is at least in part, genetic. About three years ago, HBO had a program that dealt primarily with genetic sexual aberrations-namely, hermaphrodites, and people born without any genetalia whatsoever. However, they dedicated about ten minutes to a seven or eight year old boy who acted EXTREMELY effeminate. So, in my opinion, it IS genetic.
 freddiev
Joined: 7/11/2005
Msg: 54
being gay - genetic or social
Posted: 2/17/2009 1:00:22 AM
I have called myself gay from the age of 13. I didn't stop fighting it till I was 22. I see gay and straight the same way now ,just a variant in the sexual attractions of people. Choice I do know never happens. We are attracted to people who makes us horny. pretty simple really
 Merrylass
Joined: 12/30/2007
Msg: 55
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being gay - genetic or social
Posted: 2/27/2009 7:47:23 AM

which implies a strong repulsion to the same sex

Not necessarily. I'm not at all attracted to my own gender, but I'm not 'repulsed'. I'm just not interested at all.

Anyway, look up the Kinsey Report. The conclusion was that people at the extremes of exclusivity make up about 10% of the population. The other 80% lie along a continuum between the two.
 desertrhino
Joined: 11/30/2007
Msg: 57
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being gay - genetic or social
Posted: 7/4/2009 11:25:16 PM
I'm just boggled that "genetic" or "social" are the only two choices.

Nobody considered "hormonal" or "dietary" or "birth order" or any of a dozen other quite reasonable possible causes? That it could be a mixture of any or all of the above?

All we can say for sure is that there are homosexual individuals in almost all mammalian species examined. To assume that humans are the only special ones that are supposed to be all heterosexual seems arrogant at best. Hubris, anyone?
 scorpiomover
Joined: 4/19/2007
Msg: 58
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being gay - genetic or social
Posted: 7/5/2009 1:46:37 AM

I'm just boggled that "genetic" or "social" are the only two choices.

Nobody considered "hormonal" or "dietary" or "birth order" or any of a dozen other quite reasonable possible causes? That it could be a mixture of any or all of the above?
That's a good point, although hormones in your diet have already been given as a reason for men becoming far more effeminate in this time.


All we can say for sure is that there are homosexual individuals in almost all mammalian species examined. To assume that humans are the only special ones that are supposed to be all heterosexual seems arrogant at best. Hubris, anyone?
It's already been noted many, many times. But it is hubris to think that people only noticed something about animals, that anyone in an agricultural society would have observed thousands of times.
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