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 forthebeauty
Joined: 7/14/2004
Msg: 8
THE LAW IS THE LAWPage 2 of 2    (1, 2)
Our school does have a moment of silence in some cases, and true enought they cant stop the kids that want to pray. I agree with Jimi, our nation was founded on chritianity, so if not for us christians, u would not even be able to post on this thread. Religion is a bad thing pakana, I dont know what religions u r refering to as far as secluding the non believers, but true christians would welcome u with open arms!!!!! I want to see everyone in heaven, but I know that isnt possible, and I also know that there may be something that one christian can say to make one non beleiver open their eyes, then GOD will be pleased.
 Ticketoride
Joined: 6/3/2004
Msg: 9
THE LAW IS THE LAW
Posted: 10/6/2004 7:11:04 PM
Pakana, anti-religious or non-religious?

Why would any given group of whatever kind tolerate persons that are dead against them?

This is different than non-religious as all that indicates is that one does not share certain views, as opposed to being against them.
 forthebeauty
Joined: 7/14/2004
Msg: 10
THE LAW IS THE LAW
Posted: 10/6/2004 7:18:38 PM
Hey ticket

My group of christians would tolerate any persons that r dead against us, because we as christians r suppose to love everyone and in hopes of maybe leading them to the light!!!!
 Ticketoride
Joined: 6/3/2004
Msg: 12
THE LAW IS THE LAW
Posted: 10/6/2004 10:55:01 PM
forthebeauty, Hi there.

I was not speaking about any specific group, be they religious or otherwise.
The general consensus however dictates that someone who is against some belief, code or the basis that makes up any group of sorts, is usually in disagreement with the other members of whatever entity, at least on the fundamental points, and is also usually ignored in some form or other.

After all, the entire basis of any Business, Team or Activity are the goals and purposes that the members of that group have in common. Consequently those that do not share those, are generally shoved aside. That can be observed in any order of things.

A few months ago, religion was'nt spoken of around here, as many members would semi-trounce on those that brought it up. If someone would like to correct me, I believe I was the very first one that openly stated that anyone should be able to express their religious point of view, as many people's opinions in their dailey lives are based on it.

Do I believe in Christianity? Hell, no, its the biggest hogwash crap Gag Fairy Tale ever fabricated! And the same thing goes for every other of its ilk too. But I do believe in principles, many of these expoused in various schools of beliefs, be they religious or philosophical in nature. I have my own terms how I define things for myself though. Also, I consider that people of a religious nature are generally more descent than those who believe in nothing, as they have at least well-intended codes they live by - a level of respect for their fellow man, a sense of caring and a vision of a better world. Minimally they have a lighter sense of being, perhaps due to the inclusion in the belief better things are up ahead. In my book, that's good attitude, whatever the belief is - in the end, that alone will make the world a better place. Faith, in my opinion, has a positive effect on the mind and a sense of well-being.

In any event, what I believe has absolutely no bearing on anyone's right to speak their mind.
I may not agree, I may lash out against it, I may even royally piss upon it, but no one has the right to adjucate that someone else cannot voice their views. That's paramount and above anything else.

Therefore, I am not anti-religious, but non-religious in respect to the extant Status Quo.
If anything, I believe in observing things, rooting out the bullsh*t, putting 2+2 together. That's always worked for me.

Furthermore, the Admin has made a thread dedicated exclusively for Religion and maybe a big 'Thank You' is in order.

A Non-Wise Man once Said: "What's yours, is mine; and what's mine, is none of your business"
 Ticketoride
Joined: 6/3/2004
Msg: 14
THE LAW IS THE LAW
Posted: 10/6/2004 11:44:41 PM
Our man of eccentric wording should familiarize himself with the non-religious meaning of the word:

(Just because one knows the meaning of something, or the original etymology of it, does not mean he believes or gives credence to the Religion where the word is used. In fact, the word Hell is a borrowed learning which in the intrepretation of the Bible was drawn from the Blacksmith Trade of the Day, and Norge believed prior to that, where it then traces back to Latin, way before the existance of Christianity.)

Here we go:

HELL: interjection; [Slang]: As *profanity, Hell is widely used, both alone and in various combinations, as an interjection expressing irritation, anger, etc. (Ex.: hell, no!), and in various ways, esp. after in or the, to express surprise, disbelief, disgust, etc. (Ex.: who in hell is he? what the hell!)

(akin to Ger holle, hell & ON Hel, the underworld goddess, Hel) < base of helan, to cover, hide < IE base *el-, to hide, cover up > L celare, to hide.

(C)1995 Zane Publishing, Inc. (C)1994, 1991, 1988 Simon & Schuster, Inc.

Hence, the word Hell is not of religious origin!!!!!!!

* and yes, the word "Profanity" also has a religious meaning, but was not used in the context as such above.

*********************************************************

Maybe I should address the topic and give Pakana 5 thumbs up for this one:

...the kids themselves have every right to pray.. but the schools themselves have no right to enforce it in schools,...

I agree, it cannot be enforced, because that would violate Freedom of Religion, or the freedom to choose otherwise, unless the school is private and based on a Religion, such as "Catholic Schools"
 forthebeauty
Joined: 7/14/2004
Msg: 15
THE LAW IS THE LAW
Posted: 10/7/2004 8:37:45 AM
Hey ticket

JUst gonna say that I do agree to some of ur points that were made, and I hope that I am not coming across as trying to shove my beliefs down anyones throat!!!!!!! I do try to be very opened minded about people in general, and not to be prejudgemental!!!

In one on these threads I did thank admin for opening up the thread but I can say it again

THANK U ADMIN FOR OPENING UP THIS THREAD.

Hey I like that quote!!!!!

Oh and I think everyone is intitled to their own opinion, whether I like it or not. ANd should be respected (unless I'm in a foul mood lol j/k)
 Ticketoride
Joined: 6/3/2004
Msg: 17
THE LAW IS THE LAW
Posted: 10/7/2004 12:39:56 PM
Afts. ExplorerMedic.

I have a bit of a problem accepting the notion that some higher power has the ability to put me into anyplace. I'd hate to bust anyone's bubble, but this boy ain't going anywhere he don't want to go, aside from the fact that one of such Grandiose Power has the ability to place someone someplace without consulting his choice, is an oppression in its own right. Since I don't subscribe to Fairy Tales, such as Heaven & Hell, I don't belabour such issues, nor am I vaguely interested in such non-sense.

Besides, speaking of symbolic undesirable places such as Hell, I doubt it could get any worse than the lives & anguish most live in the world today.

And every day freaking weird things will emerge, (Yes they do) but not from the ground! My pens & butane lighters disappear almost daily, never mind surprises caused by empty cigarette packs and coffee cups.

forthebeauty: Yes foul mood cards are perfectly valid. Everyone is entitled to a get-out-of-jail card once in a while. (g)
 Ticketoride
Joined: 6/3/2004
Msg: 19
THE LAW IS THE LAW
Posted: 10/7/2004 10:18:11 PM
The only thing you own in this universe is freewill/willpower. Says who? Another authority designating what Freedoms, Choices & Powers I have? Who the **** do you think you are?

Path towards the source and center/god/etc... What path? What source or center of what?

Read my message again. I believe it makes it plainly clear I don't believe in Fairy Tales, as your response assumes that I do.

Furthermore, ownership of anything is of no interest to me. The Freedoms & Powers I have are hard fought for and won, and they do not involve any blessing or granting of or from any supposed Power nor any direction from or towards any fictitious imaginary deity.
 Ticketoride
Joined: 6/3/2004
Msg: 21
THE LAW IS THE LAW
Posted: 10/8/2004 3:15:41 AM
Since you are not responding to my message, I assume you are not replying back to me.
THE LAW IS THE LAW
Posted: 10/8/2004 2:45:34 PM
thats what you think well wait untill you see ......
I have a bit of a problem accepting the notion that some higher power has the ability to put me into anyplace. I'd hate to bust anyone's bubble, but this boy ain't going anywhere he don't want to go, aside from the fact that one of such Grandiose Power has the ability to place someone someplace without consulting his choice, is an oppression in its own right. Since I don't subscribe to Fairy Tales, such as Heaven & Hell, I don't belabour such issues, nor am I vaguely interested in such non-sense
all i know is i got stoped from jumping to my death by my lord jesus...that when i walked back to him...i pray that all the blindness is lifted from this world and the truth is all that stands in this world... as for the law...law was maked by moses most of the laws that started this world are biblical...if they dont want god then dont want to speak...god is the word and the word is god...and in so it all life and death comes from word...
as with the law....
 monalisaoverdrive
Joined: 10/8/2004
Msg: 24
THE LAW IS THE LAW
Posted: 10/8/2004 11:48:25 PM
(Insults Deleted - Account/Profile under Review)
THE LAW IS THE LAW
Posted: 10/10/2004 1:26:10 AM
IM GLAD TOO....NOW ON ANOUTHER NOTE THE LAW AND LEGAL SYSTEM WAS CREATED BY THE CHURCH.... AND IN SO ALL OF THIS IS A REFLECTION OF WHERE WE ARE SPIRITUALY... BOY ARE WE ALL IN SUCH A SAD STATE....
 Ticketoride
Joined: 6/3/2004
Msg: 26
THE LAW IS THE LAW
Posted: 10/10/2004 5:12:33 AM
The Law & Legal System was not created by any church, at any Time or Place in History.

In fact the first set of Modern Laws based on Human Rights, the Magna Carta, involved freedom of Tyranni from the Feudal Administration. Although the majority of the English populus was Catholic, the Church had absolutely nothing to do with this. In fact, it sought every available avenue not to be drawn in and involved.

The U.S. Constitution was drafted by Thomas Jefferson, which declared unequivical rights of Freedom of Religion, ie., no one has the right to force it down anyone's throat. And if you cannot accept another's choice of Belief, then you have forsaken your own rights of free choice. And if you cannot tolerate the views of another, your views should not be tolerated by anyone either. But then maybe both Thomas Jefferson & Martin Luther might have been sent to some supposed Purgatory because they opposed the edicts of the then-tyrannical Catholic Church. Perhaps you would have felt more at home in the Dark Ages.

If you are going to refute my point by locating some Biblical Passage such as God created the World, or told Adam to... therefore...blah-blah, to explain away known facts, I can't be bothered to reply. Laws & Legal Systems existed long before any religion came about, and is the very make up of the formation of "Man" and the rules he applied in relation to himself surving as an entity or group.

Just because a stated scripture compells someone to pack every animal into a floating device, does not mean the Compeller of the command invented the first boat.

And lastly, Religion existed long before "The Church", as the Church simply represents the Administration of a Religion THAT HAS BEEN ORGANIZED.
THE LAW IS THE LAW
Posted: 10/11/2004 4:38:31 PM
oh yes i forgott you dont believe in the word of god....moses started the legal system....that all i know him and his father decided to appoint judges to try the commplaints of broken laws...the some 200+ laws set before the jews at the time...he did this due to the fact that too many complaint were being broght before him...this was the start of the legal system....
 Ticketoride
Joined: 6/3/2004
Msg: 29
THE LAW IS THE LAW
Posted: 10/11/2004 6:20:40 PM
The Sumerians DO have the oldest legal system in the world that has been substantiated & documented, not necessarily the oldest system. Clear cut evidence exists prior civilizations not only existed, but lack of artifacts failed to yield sufficient proof. In short, other systems had been around, history has just buried it in part or completely.

China may have had what could be referred to as "True Government", but has not to this day ever had Laws based on "Human Rights".
 Ticketoride
Joined: 6/3/2004
Msg: 31
THE LAW IS THE LAW
Posted: 10/12/2004 7:59:22 PM
Listen, silverthorn, I'd like to stick tons of forks into your rebuttal above.
But as far as I am concerned, you've lost it.
I'll leave it at that. End of Story,
 NittanyLion
Joined: 2/19/2005
Msg: 34
THE LAW IS THE LAW
Posted: 6/4/2005 8:23:44 AM
I never really understood why it's so upsetting for some people that their particular religion can't be endorsed by the government. (For example, prayer in schools.) I would venture to guess that if all students were required to study the Quran, there would be outrage from the same people currently endorsing prayer in school. I understand that this is an extreme example; doesn't factor in choice to abstain, etc.

Where the lines are drawn are certainly not arbitrary, and there is a lot going into decisions interpreting the Establishment Clause. It's easy to sit on POF and venture an idea of where the line SHOULD be based on what would best serve our own agendas. But that doesn't make it constitutional. But I guess my point is that I don't understand what causes so much duress.

I've been noticing an increase in this "duress" lately. Last holiday season three different people actually took offense to me because I said "happy holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas." Apparently I was minimizing Christmas. Yikes.
 Dei Gratia
Joined: 6/2/2005
Msg: 35
THE LAW IS THE LAW
Posted: 6/4/2005 10:09:44 AM
Arguing that religion is the source of the problem, many have looked to Western "secular" structures and laws for a way to allow us to come together by keeping our differences out of public debate. But can religion be so cleanly seperated out of civic society?
"Any formulation for society that relied on nothing but science would be mechanistic and lack sensibility. One that was nothing but politics or economics would be beastly and lack compassion and horizon"
- Muslim scholar Farhang Rajaee
 NittanyLion
Joined: 2/19/2005
Msg: 36
THE LAW IS THE LAW
Posted: 6/4/2005 10:13:32 AM
But can religion be so cleanly seperated out of civic society?

No.
Where the lines are drawn are certainly not arbitrary, and there is a lot going into decisions interpreting the Establishment Clause.


Generally, though, I don't think anyone is suggesting removal of religion from society. The intention of separation of church and state is so that the gov't doesn't impose one faith on society over another. As a concept, I think it's a good one.
 Dei Gratia
Joined: 6/2/2005
Msg: 37
THE LAW IS THE LAW
Posted: 6/4/2005 10:23:20 AM
So your saying we need new tools and definitions for our multifaith and multiethnic differences?

Perhaps a pinned post with mulifaith definitions in order for greater understanding and proper communication between the many differing positions of belief and unbelief?
 NittanyLion
Joined: 2/19/2005
Msg: 38
THE LAW IS THE LAW
Posted: 6/4/2005 10:32:08 AM
I think that might be what YOU'RE saying. Not a bad idea, but credit where credit is due.
 forthebeauty
Joined: 7/14/2004
Msg: 39
THE LAW IS THE LAW
Posted: 6/4/2005 6:09:27 PM
but i firmly believe that prayers shouldnt be in the school system.. its like the school is making you choose beliefs for you.. some parents might want to raise there kids not religous.. and some kids might not want to be religous.. religon is a choice and everyone should have there own right to choose it..


The school isnt making anyone believe anything, ur going to believe what u want. I suppose that them teaching kids sex ed is telling them to go ahead and have sex?
 Dei Gratia
Joined: 6/2/2005
Msg: 41
THE LAW IS THE LAW
Posted: 6/4/2005 6:35:11 PM
These are the old ways Prior to Jesus coming to earth. after Jesus was risen the New Testament shows things in a different light.
EX. the eleventh commandment love everyone even your enemies
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