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 Lucky_dog
Joined: 9/22/2008
Msg: 26
The most imprisoned nation on earthPage 2 of 8    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8)
Most federal prisoners are there on drug related convictions not because most prisoners are in prison for drugs, but because the federal government doesn't prosecute non-drug related crime.UNQUOTE

have you lost your mind???? drug related convictions are not about drugs. Tell that to the federal prisoners in prison for drugs!!the simple fact that the feds prosecute drug related crimes is an affront to every liberty that we as citizens of our individual states should hold most dear! the framers of the constitution were very careful to uphold states right to implement their own laws ...Paramount in the original constitution,

It is simple...If you break a law in Jersey that is a Jersey law and run to NY the feds have the responsibility to arrest you and have you stand trial in Jersey where you broke their law!

The FEDERAL drug laws were started to get rid of Hispanics using a fed tax stamp law for marijuana, which was repealed during the world war because we needed the commercial hemp then re-enacted because we didn't need the Mexicans any more due to the soldiers coming back home to work their own fields.

I don't want to get personal...but WTF do you work for the DEA or what! The prohibition and War on Drugs is simply a war on the poor and minorities n this country...always has been and always will be.... the scary part is when we let the government declare war on the poor...in the name of health...or safety ...we give them permission to declare war on us next!

The feds should have Less Power Less Money and Less say in our Lives Live Free Or Die!lated crimes nearly as much as the states. Simple, really
 Lucky_dog
Joined: 9/22/2008
Msg: 27
The most imprisoned nation on earth
Posted: 12/30/2008 2:52:09 AM
Excuse me Mr Justice dept. The fact that you of all people are against the war on drugs, yet defend the governments position that they have the right to jail and persecute the American people makes my opposition much less personal and SILLY. My arguments might be silly, but you are the Law Professional...where are your objective and thoughtful objections to this obviously discriminatory and untenable War on Drugs?

If you can't acknowledge that the war on drugs...open a floodgate for future wars to protect us from ourselves, you are not being honest as an attorney or an American'

Your point of law is probably correct, your conviction in your beliefs to change the law are suspect. I never claimed that the feds don't have jurisdiction in interstate commerce. I do however draw the line on the feds using bad legislation. designed to circumvent states rights to decide what drugs such as marijuana, and how they should be regulated, such as California's medical use laws.

respectfully your friend in justice

Lucky_dog
 nebula22
Joined: 8/14/2007
Msg: 28
The most imprisoned nation on earth
Posted: 12/30/2008 7:23:55 AM
The Marijuana Tax Act of 1938 true purpose was to get rid of the natural competition to DuPont's unnatural products such as Rayon and Nylon.
DuPont had also bought up most of the cotton industry and Hemp was used to make many of the products now made from cotton.

The Mexicans and Blacks were used as a way to mask the true purpose of that law.

Hemp was the worlds most important agricultural product.
More than 5000 products was being made from Hemp as well as 60 medicines.
Making Hemp illegal opened the door for trillions of Dollars to be made for some of the richest families such as DuPont, Rockefeller, and Hearst.
 sunny snow storm
Joined: 12/21/2008
Msg: 29
The most imprisoned nation on earth
Posted: 12/30/2008 5:08:24 PM
i love it lucky dog..............lets wage a war on xanax and big mac's
 softy63
Joined: 7/13/2008
Msg: 30
The most imprisoned nation on earth
Posted: 12/30/2008 9:43:25 PM
I don't get it? What's the difference between jail and prison?
Here in Oz, it's the same thing.

Overnight stays at the cop shop is called the "lock up" over here.
 Ticketoride
Joined: 6/3/2004
Msg: 31
The most imprisoned nation on earth
Posted: 1/1/2009 10:20:03 PM
The U.S. has a higher percentage of it's populace in prison than any other nation in the world, beating out even China. (verify via google)

Some super-patriot please explain to me how you can reconcile this with the ridiculous claim that this is the "freest country in the world," especially given the fact that 70% of all prison inmates are incarcerated for victimless "crimes" (i.e. nonviolent drug "offenses.")

See how many People in China are let off on Probation for Drug Usage, Theft, Assault, etc. In some Asian Countries, you lose your Hand.

Punishment in Terms of long-term Incarcerations under some of the most overcrowded and wretched Conditions even Death Penalties makes anyone think twice before breaking the Law in China. Further, you have little in the Way of Rights, and your Chance of getting off with only a Slap on the Wrist is almost non-existent there.

Its one Thing knowing if you get busted in the US because its only a few Hours of Community Work, another in Asia getting thrown into Jail with the good Possibility of never coming out alive. Bring their Laws and Justice System to the US, you won't find so many locked up in a few Decades.

Should US & Western European Nations decide to grow some Balls and Teeth and actually get really tough on its Lawbreakers, this would all change.

On the other Hand, there are normal Routines of Corruption, esp. in Respect to Finance which are quite acceptable, although illegal there, whereas in the US you might do 7 Seven Years for Insider Trading or not declaring your Income. At least you are not so subject to such heavy Tax Slaveries over there, and in that respect, there is little Freedom in the US.
 liljester
Joined: 11/3/2008
Msg: 32
The most imprisoned nation on earth
Posted: 1/2/2009 8:05:06 AM
To answer the OP, we waste our money jailing the illegal immigrants (don't even want to get started on how many are let in but never should be), instead of just dumping them on the other side of the border aka IMMEDIATE deportation. Get rid of the illegals and we would get rid of a lot of problems in this country.
 Glock34
Joined: 7/18/2007
Msg: 33
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The most imprisoned nation on earth
Posted: 1/2/2009 8:35:40 PM
You're absolutely right. Michigan is the state leading the way in passing more and more oppressive laws. since we have such a depressed economy, our legislators continue to pass more revenue building laws and more career building laws to make politicians look good to the public.
 shmodzilla
Joined: 10/6/2008
Msg: 34
The most imprisoned nation on earth
Posted: 1/2/2009 10:28:16 PM
So basicaly this is what i am getting. If you break the law and it did'nt hurt someone it should'nt matter and if people keep breaking the law we should just drop that law.
People don't spend a bunch of time in jail for a bag of pot in their pocket. They are in jail for the bag of pot because they are on parole or have a giant previous wrapsheet on file. Yea we have more people in jail than other countries. Maybe that has something to do with the fact we don't execute piles of prison inmates anually ,cut hands of thieves and all.
 Got Trance
Joined: 5/23/2007
Msg: 35
The most imprisoned nation on earth
Posted: 1/4/2009 9:45:50 AM
WTF!!! Are you just plain stupid or are you ignorant?
The phrase "freest country in the world," (your spelling) has nothing to do with people being in jail or prison.
Has to do with all the freedoms we have in the United States of America.
The freedom to move from state to sate.
The freedom of religion.
The freedom to speak out against our leaders. Try that in some other countries.
The freedom to wear what we want.
And the list goes on.
Damn near all people in prison did something that is against the law.
 nebula22
Joined: 8/14/2007
Msg: 36
The most imprisoned nation on earth
Posted: 1/4/2009 10:22:24 AM
Freedom of religion only if you want to believe in the government approved religions.
Freedom to speak out against unjust laws? Only if you want to become a target and go to jail.

The List goes on..
 nebula22
Joined: 8/14/2007
Msg: 37
The most imprisoned nation on earth
Posted: 1/4/2009 1:08:35 PM
I myself became a target for writing articles and putting them in the newspaper condemning the laws against Hemp.
My friends who were also standing up for everyone's rights and doing the same thing in other states experienced the same thing.
We are members of NORML..
We wish to see the prohibition against marijuana come to an end.
We wish to live in peace without persecution.

You are a self righteous person who thinks your crap doesn't stink antinjersy.
What religion do you think is in Jamaica?
The right to use natural plants for medicine and to celebrate life is a religion that is forbidden in America.

What have you got to say about that Mr self righteous?
 10of6
Joined: 8/27/2008
Msg: 38
The most imprisoned nation on earth
Posted: 1/4/2009 2:39:34 PM
This argument is the most easily reconciled, to me at least, by assessing the influence Puritanical and classic Protestant morals and values have had on our view of common citizens.

I shudder to think of what might happen soon if so many non-custodial parents can no longer pay child support after being one of the 2+ million laid off this year. We can't process that many cases and we don't dare even breathe a word about tossing that many people in local jails for it.

This is merely one of the many quandries before us.
 Twilightslove
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 39
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The most imprisoned nation on earth
Posted: 1/4/2009 6:27:42 PM
The difference between the War on Drugs today and Prohibition are that during prohibition it was my grandpa (the bootlegger) who spent a few days in jail and not his customers. Grandpa got raided once a month; his slots machines confiscated and him in jail for a couple of days till he PAID OFF the sheriff (that’s right paid off the sheriff) then the sheriff would release him and take the slots machines back to grandpa’s speakeasy for my grandpa to start up again. (Pretty nice of the sheriff to take the slots machines back to the speakeasy for grandpa) The law just wanted their cut in the profits back then; they didn’t want to get rid of the speakeasies or they wouldn’t have any place to get a beer after work. The War on Drugs is different in some ways and the same in other ways; it isn’t the dealers or the traffickers that the law wants to arrest today it is the customers or the users. They do not want to do away with the drugs themselves or where would they get their cocaine or their marijuana and how would they continue to make a profit off all the fines and penalties, the CIA trafficking, and the private prisons lobbyist?

Meanwhile, more and more users are being placed in jails, prisons, and then placed on probation or parole. Many of those users are the youth of our nation who haven’t had time to mature much less understand that once they have a criminal record it is there for a lifetime to haunt them. They do not understand that every future employer, creditor, land lord, and possible future love interest will be looking at their record only to discriminate against them and pass them up for someone else. They do not understand that the plant that they chose to smoke will be used against them for a lifetime (after all it is one of those natural things, some say a God given plant others just a plant that was created by the universe)

Just like Prohibition the War on Drugs has had the effect of creating more violence through gang power. During Prohibition it was Al Capone and other Mafia gangs that fought for their turf to make sure the other guy didn’t sell to their customers. Today it is the Mexican Mafia and other gangs that fight amongst each other to assure that they sell more drugs than the other guy. Many innocent people have been caught up in this violence to control the illegal flow of drugs.

When they finally made alcohol legal again the violence abated so is it unreasonable to believe that legalizing these drugs might just curtail a lot of the violence today?

I understand why many people worry that their children might get a hold of illegal drugs and use them if the drugs are legalized but the truth is that it would make it harder for children to get a hold of these drugs. If drugs were legal then their would be regulations in place such as an age limit; license to produce, market, and distribute and that would effectively make the gangs invalid. There wouldn’t be drug dealers lurking every corner that they see to find a child that might be willing to try what they are selling.

The prisons would be smaller and less of a burden on the taxpayers. The people would effectively control their own addictions without recourse.

They found that once Prohibition was lifted the rate of alcohol use did not change too much so I would imagine that if drugs were legalized the rate of drug abuse would not change much either.
 edmonfella
Joined: 1/9/2008
Msg: 40
The most imprisoned nation on earth
Posted: 1/4/2009 6:47:36 PM
What does alcohol, cigarettes and fattening food have to do with pot... for the umpteenth time I would like pro pot people to provide a stand alone statement as to why pot should be legal.
do not mention hemp because that has nothing to do with potheads getting high.

Mention medical marijuana, that's fine but, that is not what you are advocating...

Admit it! you want the right to get high.

The anti-hemp people are pro DuPont

remember ! A STAND ALONE ARGUMENT WHY POT SHOULD BE LEGAL (not hemp) that is a fiber.... and at best the DuPont argument is ridiculous at best.

You are your own worst enemy......
 Twilightslove
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 41
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The most imprisoned nation on earth
Posted: 1/4/2009 7:03:09 PM

Mention medical marijuana, that's fine but, that is not what you are advocating...


Actually, I believe that marijuana was used for medicinal purposes before DuPont came into the picture. These capitalists bent on their own gain effectively made a medicinal plant illegal so that they could reap more profits and shutdown the competition.
 Twilightslove
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 42
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The most imprisoned nation on earth
Posted: 1/4/2009 7:43:47 PM
So you feel that my right to express an opinion somehow infringes on your rights?

Why don't you tell me why you want to see drug reform and why you feel that private prisons are better than government controlled prisons?

By the way, I was on the governments side for many, many years until I realized how many people were spending time in prisons for drug usage only to come out of the prison and be ostracized for a drug problem alone.

I think it is absolutely crazy for people to spend all of their time doing drugs and/0r drinking alcohol but as long as they are not infringing upon my rights then I feel it foolish of me or others to try to control their behaviors.

I do believe it is highly important that those dealing with tremendous pain, incurable diseases, and other health deficits be able to use natural healing vs. pharmaceuticals that have been known to cause far more harm and fatalities.
 nebula22
Joined: 8/14/2007
Msg: 43
The most imprisoned nation on earth
Posted: 1/6/2009 4:49:17 AM
Hey Dancer ,,
How can we talk about the most imprisoned nation on earth without talking about marijuana?

I agree that some people just cannot or will not behave themselves.
Those people will do what they will do no matter if they are stone cold sober or if they are high or drunk.
I think we have all have had our fill of this reefer madness bullshit.
Some people are just bad apples.
As far as government approved religions,, ask the people in Waco Texas about that..
Medical marijuana?
Ask yourself why the federal government is still causing problems in all those states that have passed the MM laws.
By the way,, Massachusetts just changed their state laws in favour of POT too.
 Twilightslove
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 44
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The most imprisoned nation on earth
Posted: 1/6/2009 8:29:48 AM

No, of course not. And I never said, or implied, anything of the sort. What you're doing is only hurting the drug reform movement you claim to support.


I don't feel that my statements hurt the drug reform movement at all. After all, who is actually reading what I'm writing but you and a few other folks on the net.


Why don't you tell me why you want to see drug reform and why you feel that private prisons are better than government controlled prisons?


Oh, so now you're "on the government's side" again, huh? Why do I want private industry to operate the prison industrial complex instead of government? Because they're better at it; I trust private industry more than I trust government; and because, if done correctly, it would mean less government expenditures at a time when less expenditures in certain areas of federal and state largess need desperately to be achieved.

Now it's your turn. Why do you trust the government with this responsibility more than the private sector?


I'm not sure how you can assume from my statement that I said you were on the governments side. I just simply stated that I changed my feelings on such matters and decided the government was wrong about such things as the War on Drugs. It appears that I'm still flexible to change my mind when I see things differently.

I haven't been on the governments side about much for as long as I can remember and that isn't a terrible thing. I believe that when you see wrong you should speak up and say so no matter who is doing the wrong.

Private bankers and private industries have effectively controlled our government to the detriment of all other Americans and you believe that they should control the prisons as well? In order to be a private industry you have to make a profit. These private prisons are offering to do the job cheaper than the government which means that they have to cut costs so they treat the prisoners inhumanely to make up the difference and still reap the profits for their stockholders and CEO's.

I can discipline my child without treating them inhumanely so it doesn't appear that prisons should have the right to inhumanely treat prisoners to get the point across. I'm sure that the simple fact that they are behind bars instead of running free is enough to make them see that they are being punished.
 nebula22
Joined: 8/14/2007
Msg: 45
The most imprisoned nation on earth
Posted: 1/6/2009 8:46:41 AM
Dance,,
You said you was not a good cop??
I'll bet your wrong...
I'll bet you was what the people call one of the best cops because you was willing to see what is wrong with our system and refused to be a Nazi cop.
 Got Trance
Joined: 5/23/2007
Msg: 46
The most imprisoned nation on earth
Posted: 1/6/2009 8:51:05 AM
This thread has been hijacked.
 oddandy
Joined: 3/5/2008
Msg: 47
The most imprisoned nation on earth
Posted: 1/6/2009 11:24:22 AM

And since when is drug trafficking non violent.? Drug traffickers are the worst kind of slime and traffic in misery and death


Since when is smoking pot grown by my buddy's dad a "crime?" WHERE'S THE VICTIM?
 oddandy
Joined: 3/5/2008
Msg: 48
The most imprisoned nation on earth
Posted: 1/6/2009 11:25:49 AM

i think "crooked cops" are a minority.....


I don't. I was a bail bondsman for 5 years, and finally had to quit because the crap I was seeing on a daily basis made me want to go on a shooting spree in the city/county building.
 oddandy
Joined: 3/5/2008
Msg: 49
The most imprisoned nation on earth
Posted: 1/6/2009 11:30:57 AM

public opinion is the root of all social change.


I have to (sadly) disagree. Perhaps in a free society. In the U.S., however, where polls at the time showed that a whopping 76% opposed NAFTA, the High Potentates in Washington passed it, anyway. Same with the recent so-called "bailout bills" that everyone opposed.

Public opinion DEMONSTRABLY means absolutely nothing to the powers that be.
 oddandy
Joined: 3/5/2008
Msg: 50
The most imprisoned nation on earth
Posted: 1/6/2009 12:06:57 PM

relying on polls to accurately represent public opinion is a tad naive.


You are correct. However, I think a lot of things are obviously unpopular with the hallowed "majority" and pass anyway. Surely to G-d, for example, there are not THAT many evangelical right-wing losers that thought Saddam Hussein had anything whatsoever to do with 9/11 in this country.....yet we went to war for the profit and glory of The Carlysle Group and other arms and support manufacturers that are posting record profits ever since the mass blood-sacrifice in Iraq.



(and last I looked the bailout was about 50-50)


I don't believe that for a second. I'm fortunate in that 1 one of the 2 congresscritters I like is actually my congressman. He told me (yeah I went to the barbeque, lol) that out of over 5,000 calls to his office about the bailout, only 33 were in favor. Yes, I know that's akin to a poll, but still, c'mon.....

Selling "Where's MY ****ing Bailout?" bumper stickers on cafepress now. Send PM if u want one :D
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