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 Twilightslove
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 51
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The most imprisoned nation on earthPage 3 of 8    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8)
Currently there are reported to be 100,000 falsely imprisoned Americans living along with the estimated 2,000,000 US prison population nationwide.America now has the very unique distinction of not only being rated the #1 in the World for having the largest prison population,but America also has the distinct rating of having the largest wrongfully imprisoned prison population in the World as well.Our US Congress affords themselves all the perks and salary most Americans could only dream about,but ask anyone of these Leaders Of The Free World to protect our Middle Class or Working Poor Americans from continuing to be falsely imprisoned endless decades due to the lack of federal appeal legal counsel being afforded them, and you just might be thought of as being crazy?The masses of the American people could never come close to ever being able to burden these federal appeal legal costs for themselves or for a family member,and should not need a lobbying group for this basic right of legal protection to be afforded them! Our Poster Child of this exact neglect by our US Congress is this young man named Manny Gonzales.Anyone interested in reading first hand how our US Congress is willing to allow our judicial system to continue keeping this now 21 year old young man imprisoned for 27 mandatory years for frightening someone with a hand gun(not even injuring the so called victim,) without affording him federal appeal legal counsel to properly be able to defend himself in our Federal courts of Appeal? Manny Gonzales The kid that everyone forgot in the CA prison system can be entered into any WWW search engine for the judicial ride of ones life! Tens of thousands of other Americans being imprisoned in the US are facing this same lack of legal counsel everyday,and with this lack of legal counsel being denied their right to new retrials,which in turn forces thousands to remain endless decades in our prison systems of the wealthiest country in the world! Just like the German population prior WW2,the American people and our National Media have not felt any concern or interest to speak out about our country having so many of our fellow Middle Class and Working Poor citizens being falsely imprisoned and not even being afforded the proper Federal Appeal legal counsel to assist in their attempt at exonerating themselves!

http://phillyimc.org/en/node/66632

Not only are we #1 at imprisoning our population we also have the distinct rating of having the largest WRONGFULLY imprisoned population.
 oddandy
Joined: 3/5/2008
Msg: 52
The most imprisoned nation on earth
Posted: 1/6/2009 12:20:36 PM
(say "bankers control our government!" to people in political power and watch how quickly they leave your presence).


Yeah..because they know that you're about to start asking questions they can't give a good answer to.

Please witness the great stickup against the American people that just happened (aka "the ((first!)) Bailout Bill."

Nice how the privately-owned, for-profit corporation known as the Fed (who's board is staffed by muckety-mucks from all the companies who recieved great sums of money from the first "bailout,") gets to hand out our future tax dollars to their buddies. Note also how all these "takeovers" ocurred in the middle of the night....You've been robbed, buddy, and so have the rest of us. Literally in the sense that you'll be taxed to pay for these "bailouts" (and notice how it was reported that all recipient companies of said stickup immediately paid exec/ceo bonuses rather than "free up credit" and how Paulson's only remark on it was "well, we can't tell them what to do with the money!") and figuratively in the sense that, as they turn the printing presses back on and literally just print more money to cover these bills the value of every dollar you have in the bank plummets.

EDIT: Just saw the above post. I am a pro-market libertarian. I believe that private enterprise ALWAYS outperforms government in a truly free market.

However, I see your above claim that private industry doe snot control the U.S. government and would simply like to reiterate the FACT (which you may verify for yourself) that the Federal Reserve, which prints our money and controls how much money is in circulation, is a privately-owned for-profit corporatoin.

And surely the folks who print the money have no sway over the government, amirite??
 oddandy
Joined: 3/5/2008
Msg: 53
The most imprisoned nation on earth
Posted: 1/6/2009 12:45:33 PM
Do me a favor. Go to your local law library tonight, and grab a volume, any volume in the past 60 years, of the Federal Register. Spend a good hour flipping through it. Come back here afterwards and tell me if you think private industry still controls the government.


Friend, are you kidding me? Where in those books will I learn how much money it takes to cover the TV ads necessary to beat your opponent, and how much money a lobbying firm can give me as a condidate, both in "real" and "soft" money to the party? There's your control, my friend, the MONEY. Money that is NEEDED to keep your seat on the gravy train. Where in the Federal register will I find info about the privately-owned Federal Reserve Bank, and more importantly who the owner's of said corporation are?

I appreciate your studiousness, but I'm afraid you're a tad naive to belive that the laws on the books apply at all to what we're talking about here. Hell, bribery is against the laws...I'll NEVER find a case for bribery in the law library that you suggest I go to....yet can/will you deny that it is common practice?

This response reminds me of the militia people from the 90's. All they could do was talk about the Constitution, and they didn't want to hear it when I pointed out that it was a rather dead topic given that the government had been acting outside of Constitutional boundaries for decades, anyway.

Oddandy - Proud to have been kicked out of the "TN Volunteer Militia" in 1996 for "being too radical"
 Twilightslove
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 54
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The most imprisoned nation on earth
Posted: 1/6/2009 12:48:36 PM
Something went horribly wrong after Texas decided to crack down on mayhem in public schools by mandating zero tolerance for weapons, drugs, and violence on campus. Given broad discretion to remove unruly pupils from class, teachers and administrators restored order. But they also created a fairly efficient fast track to prison for a shocking number of Texas schoolchildren.


http://www.texasappleseed.net/pdf/Prison%20track_%20Texas%20has%20to%20make%20schools%20safe%20for%20learning%20without%20turning%20misbehaving%20students%20into%20criminals%20%20Chron%20com%20-%20Houston%20Chronicle.pdf


There are kinder gardeners being placed in alternative schools for throwing a temper tantrum of all things. Alternative schools should only be about highly dangerous children. They are sending kids to these schools for possible cheating, cigarettes, talking back to a teacher, disagreeing with a teacher, etc.

When you place a good child in with a bunch of unruly children the good child will learn the unruly ways to survive.
 oddandy
Joined: 3/5/2008
Msg: 55
The most imprisoned nation on earth
Posted: 1/6/2009 1:06:06 PM

When you place a good child in with a bunch of unruly children the good child will learn the unruly ways to survive.


Nobody ever mentions the fact that Charlie Manson was raised by the State.

It speaks VOLUMES, doesn't it?
 compleat_man
Joined: 10/3/2008
Msg: 56
The most imprisoned nation on earth
Posted: 1/6/2009 1:13:38 PM

that's an easy one. Because the Controlled Substances Act is federal law, and federal law constitutionally trumps state law when the two are in conflict, and, since the CSA conflicts with state level medical marijuana laws, there you have it. Is this right? No


more make-work laws for lawyers though , right?

is it only coincidence that most legislators are lawyers,and many laws are written to generate more (unnecessary) billing time for the nation with the most lawyers per capita in the world.

Shakespeare had a good point!

although, lawyers thrive on fighting,conflict & divisiveness..

If you're the only doctor or engineer in town, you'll make lots of $$..

if the only lawyer, you'll starve..better to have lots of lawyers 'helping' people to start lawsuits, thus the targets are forced to hire other shylocks to 'defend' them, and the cycle continues..
 10of6
Joined: 8/27/2008
Msg: 57
The most imprisoned nation on earth
Posted: 1/6/2009 2:38:55 PM

Public opinion DEMONSTRABLY means absolutely nothing to the powers that be.
So are the seeds of revolution sowed, fertilized with imperious arrogance.
 AbuAlMashaakil
Joined: 3/20/2007
Msg: 58
The most imprisoned nation on earth
Posted: 1/6/2009 4:21:49 PM
Freedom comes with responsibility. The sad fact is too many people want the former without accepting the latter and end up with neither.
 jadegreen
Joined: 2/3/2006
Msg: 59
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The most imprisoned nation on earth
Posted: 1/6/2009 9:45:53 PM
Could it be our police are just "better" at catching crooks? Okay, I know I'm gonna get slammed on that one.... I suppose this would be good time to say go look up the word "anarchy"...hopes that how u spell it...
 compleat_man
Joined: 10/3/2008
Msg: 60
The most imprisoned nation on earth
Posted: 1/7/2009 8:22:15 AM

Congress looking out for lawyers? That assumes that most lawyers like each other and want to see each other do well. We're a little more cutthroat than that.


no..primarily looking out for themselves..since most come from law firms with which they can trade favors..scratch my back, I'll scratch yours..and many/most will eventually go back to private practice..thus want to ensure while they are in Congress, the law gets more & more unwieldy & complex so as to ensure good money for themselves when they get out..and return to a law practice.

but by looking out for themselves, they do inadvertently also help all lawyers get a bigger slice of the GNP..
 TOMic bomb
Joined: 10/5/2008
Msg: 61
The most imprisoned nation on earth
Posted: 1/7/2009 9:15:56 AM
this is obviously a pro- drug forum question.
the real question should be why are we putting drug affenders in jail?

the answer: DRUG USERS AND SELLERS SHOULD BE IN JAIL. THAT IS WHERE THEY BELONG.

marijuana dopers, meth dopers and all the other wastoids need to be away from the general populace and incarcerated. they are dangerous and no real patriotic Americans want them around. are drugs, dopers and dope sellers good for America?

definately and resoundingly NO!! put them away.
 compleat_man
Joined: 10/3/2008
Msg: 62
The most imprisoned nation on earth
Posted: 1/7/2009 9:21:40 AM
^^

also applies to alcohol dopers..are they good for America? (or any country)?

no. lock them all up & throw away the key..soon you can achieve a population with half the people incarcerated..yay!!

OR be just like Iran, Iraq, Taliban/Afghanistan.. off with their heads!

sort of ironic to 'fight for freedom' over there..then want to be a lot more like them..

hmm, would plumbers OR lawyers want a system simple enough that people could do more of it (or all) themselves?

I highly doubt it..

what people SAY and what they actually want or do, do not always coincide.

I assume you 'know' enough lawyers to form a statistically significant sample size? or are you basing this scientific conclusion on 2 or 3 people?
 nebula22
Joined: 8/14/2007
Msg: 63
The most imprisoned nation on earth
Posted: 1/7/2009 9:37:29 AM
Hey,, tomic GOD,,, Was you doing your Valtrix and drinking alcohol at the SAME time when you posted that?
Do us Americans a favour and move to Iran to be with your brothern.

While I agree that no-one needs to do crack, meth or any of those brain killers, I am also aware that POT is very useful for many things including preventing blindness and alzheimer's.

Get your self another mixed drink and thank the real GOD for your freedom to do that..
 TOMic bomb
Joined: 10/5/2008
Msg: 64
The most imprisoned nation on earth
Posted: 1/7/2009 9:46:52 AM
thanks for saying silly things. it helps to prove my point.

you sir are not a true patrotic American if you espouse dope use. it is illegal and should be.

you can't get away from the fact that marijuana dopers are no good for America or the people and children who you may interact with.

if you are caught doing your potsmoking around your children they will be put into a foster home. is this what you want? is that good for you or your children?

if you want to do drugs and be a brain addled zombie living in the twilight zone, YOU go to the caribbean islands and please stay there. no decent people want you HERE.
 compleat_man
Joined: 10/3/2008
Msg: 65
The most imprisoned nation on earth
Posted: 1/7/2009 9:55:30 AM
IMO, most decent people (esp. men) don't waste $$ on face-lifts, dying their hair black, and getting fake tans trying so hard to look a few years younger than they actually are..

do you realize that black hair dye can addle your brains..in fact can cause brain cancer with prolonged usage?
 TOMic bomb
Joined: 10/5/2008
Msg: 66
The most imprisoned nation on earth
Posted: 1/7/2009 10:52:25 AM
i might postulate that that is true with one change. not most of the world's but rather some of the world's music.

no doubt drug use makes for a creative brain at that moment. but there's much more to life than being creative. you have to be able to steer your way through life's real world abstacles to be fully successful as a human being. to do that requires clear and lucid thinking. pot smoking robs you of that.

compleat man msg 130 says:



most decent people (esp. men) don't waste $$ on face-lifts, dying their hair black, and getting fake tans trying so hard to look a few years younger than they actually are..

do you realize that black hair dye can addle your brains..in fact can cause brain cancer with prolonged usage?


no, i didn't know that COMPLEAT MAN. when the time comes to use those products or get a face lift i'll remember your advice. thanks for thinking i'm so young. sincere compliments are always welcome.

in the meantime did you know that drug use such as pot smoking causes some men to chronically misspell some words? such as the word COMPLETE? : D
 Twilightslove
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 67
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The most imprisoned nation on earth
Posted: 1/7/2009 2:51:02 PM
Higher Profits Require More Prisoners
For private prison corporations, the financial bottom line depends on high incarceration rates. With millions
of dollars invested in prison construction costs, private prison companies work assiduously to minimize any
risks to profits. In their annual reports to stockholders, both Corrections Corporation of America and
Cornell Corrections (which together account for more than 60 percent of the market share) recognize their
reliance on state legislatures and the threat that a lower crime rate or reduced corrections budget poses for
their profits.
CCA’s S.E.C. filings (March 31, 1997) contained this list of Risk Factors: “Short-Term Nature of
Government Contracts, Dependence on Government Appropriations, and Dependence on Government
Agencies for Inmates.”
9
Private prison corporations need influence at the state level because state governments are their primary
clients. Unlike many other corrections issues, where corrections professionals determine the approach, the
key decision-makers on prison privatization issues are the elected legislators and governors who pass
corrections department appropriations and sentencing legislation.
According to the 1998 Congressional study, Private Prisons in the United States, “[Most] contracting for
imprisonment services was not taken at the initiative of the correctional agency, but was instead mandated
by either the legislature or the chief executive of the jurisdiction, typically the governor.”
10
As a result, influencing elected officials at the
state level has become a key business strategy
for private prison corporations.
3
WESTERN PRISON PROJECT • WESTERN STATES CENTER
The past twenty years have marked a dramatic shift to downright vengeful criminal justice policies. State and
federal legislation has criminalized more and more behaviors, incarcerated offenders for longer stretches of
time, and dismantled most rehabilitative and transition services that could help prisoners successfully re-
integrate into society.
On the federal level, the incarceration boom has been promoted by the Sentencing Reform Act of 1984, the
Violent Crime Control & Law Enforcement Act of 1994, the Illegal Immigration and Immigrant
Responsibility Act of 1996 and other key legislation. Most of the action, however, has been at the state level,
where a range of harsh criminal justice legislation has resulted in massive increases in the prison population.
Some of this state-level activity was encouraged by legislation at the federal level, such as the 1994 Crime
Act, which provides money for prison construction to states which pass “Truth-in-Sentencing” legislation.
Much of the legislation at the state level was crafted by a single organization, in partnership with private
prison interests.
The American Legislative Exchange Council
Hundreds of similar pieces of criminal justice legislation were
introduced in states throughout the country in the mid-
1990s. Their origin can be clearly traced to the influence and
work of one conservative organization: the American
Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC).
ALEC is a Washington, D.C.-based public policy
organization that supports conservative legislators. Launched
in 1973 by Paul Weyrich (a Heritage Foundation founder and
major New Right figure), ALEC exemplifies the overlap
between the corporate sector and public policy.
With over 40 percent of state legislators as members, ALEC
represents a formidable force in state capitols across the
country. Of the more than 6,000 state legislators in the
United States, approximately 2,500 are members of ALEC, including scores who hold key leadership
positions.
A chief function of the Council is the development of model legislative proposals that advance conservative
principles like privatization. In 1995-96, ALEC’s model legislation resulted in 1,647 bills, including 365 that
became law (a 22 percent success rate). By 1999, introduction of bills based on ALEC’s model had increased
by 34 percent; of 2,208 ALEC bills, 322 were enacted into law.
11
The Corporate Connection
Business foots the bill for much of ALEC’s operating budget and directly shapes its political agenda through
participation in policy task forces. In 1992, 70 percent of ALEC’s $3.7 million budget came from
corporations. By 1998, the organization’s budget had grown to more than $6 million, with 68 percent
coming from corporate donations.
Section II: The Legislative Pipeline
http://www.privateci.org/private_pics/inc_prisonprivatization%5b1%5d.pdf
 Twilightslove
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 68
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The most imprisoned nation on earth
Posted: 1/7/2009 6:49:39 PM
The Private Prison industry is now pleased to be a part of immigration reform even though most of the immigrants are guilty of misdemeanor offenses and should simply be deported.

http://realcostofprisons.org/blog/archives/2008/11/private_prison_3.html
 shmodzilla
Joined: 10/6/2008
Msg: 69
The most imprisoned nation on earth
Posted: 1/7/2009 8:10:12 PM
Yea, it's not cheesey TV commercials that give potheads a bad name.
 compleat_man
Joined: 10/3/2008
Msg: 70
The most imprisoned nation on earth
Posted: 1/8/2009 10:10:04 AM

Pot has the reputation it does because the hysteria against marijuana has been cultivated for decades by the evangelical lunatics and other self-interest groups set out to "demonize" it. Ever seen the ridiculous movie "Reefer Madness?" The movie is supposed to be taken seriously but it's the most shameful bit of anti-marijuana propaganda for the ages.


if we're going to get honest, the demonization of marijuana is largely due to RACISM reaing its ugly head.

when marijuana was essentially made illegal or a 'controlled substance' in the mid 1930's in most states of the US (culminating in the "Marihuana Tax Act of 1937" - federal law)

it was to a large degree because of fear and hatred of the Mexican immigrants, and black people, amongst whom marijuana use was more popular than amongst "Caucasian-Americans"..

you know, upstanding WHITE people in law enforcement and gov't just KNEW that all those Mexicans and blacks would be smoking dope and FORNICATING with their (white) daughters and womenfolk!!

(said with sarcasm..not NOT my beliefs..but the propaganda of the time..)

what might be even worse..if their white womenfolk smoked dope..they might CRAVE carnal knowledge with these people!!

so they made ridiculous propaganda (e.g. the "Reefer Madness" movie where a puff of a joint turns everyone into sex-crazed rapists & killers..) and proceeded to make marijuana illegal..Pot Prohibition..

the really ridiculous part is that pretty well everyone knows that ALCOHOL use in fact leads to many more people becoming violent, to assault, rape and murder, etc.

most stoners just get sleepy & passive..ask an honest cop..they'd rather deal with stoners than with a bunch of drunk rowdy people.
 Double Cabin
Joined: 11/29/2004
Msg: 71
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The most imprisoned nation on earth
Posted: 1/8/2009 11:05:04 AM
AntinJersey,

With all due respect are you using 2002 statistics? Did I miss something on Google? Private Prison Population is on the decline and they're building more and more private prisons?

Since that's not the case TODAY here's something from just a couple of months ago:

http://bronxnews.wordpress.com/2008/11/20/larger-inmate-population-is-boon-to-private-prisons/

The economic record dictates the fact that many things should never have been allowed to become industries; insurance, healthcare, highway construction, and INCARCERATION among them. We have people flying planes into buildings, putting deadly agents into envelopes, "legally" stealing people's pensions and life savings, and unfathomably unqualified loans have put us in the toughest spot since the depression and you people think someone smoking dope is a big problem and supporting terrorism?

Talk about misplaced priorities. Just say no to deceitful agendas. The black market is the most destructive element of society for one reason, the powers that be indulge it. Do you really think Pot would be illegal if a pharmeceutical company could patent the plant? Really? LMFAO.
 nebula22
Joined: 8/14/2007
Msg: 72
The most imprisoned nation on earth
Posted: 1/8/2009 2:37:58 PM
The racist bull crap about the Mexicans and blacks that was used for an excuse to make marijuana illegal was just a cover for the real reason they wanted to make pot illegal.

DuPont hired a man named Herman Oliphant to come up with a way to make HEMP illegal..
DuPont had just bought the patents for Rayon and Nylon as well as buying up most of the cotton industry and wanted the natural competition eliminated.

This is the true reason for the Marijuana Tax act.
They couldn't legally make it illegal but could put a heavy enough tax on it so as to make it unprofitable to grow.
 Onceuponatime61
Joined: 10/10/2008
Msg: 73
The most imprisoned nation on earth
Posted: 2/20/2009 9:52:21 PM
Some countries have all their law's in an arm load of books. Americans have an intire library to hold their law books. Most people in American prizons never did the crime. They were merly entraped. As a general rule most people was like scamed into some careful planed trap created by police and lawyers.
It's mainly a revenue for money. Some people say the biggest criminals are not Joe blow walking down the street. Its the men in the cars wearing the badges. One guy said the law is nothing more than paid stalkers that doesn't live by the laws they enforce.
It's against the law to have fun.
 want to travel
Joined: 7/29/2006
Msg: 74
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The most imprisoned nation on earth
Posted: 2/22/2009 9:37:27 AM
I am a very proud Canadian ,who really has traveled the world, there may be a huge prison population in the USA, but there are many many countries on the planet that are prisons unto themselves, you compared communist china to the USA, that would in my mind make you a naive little child,there is no freedom of speech, no freedom of the press, extream police brutality is the norm,no human rights, corruption at all levels of government, and everyday life,as for racism,heaven forbid you belong to one of the dozens of national minorities, you are not even free to express yourself in your own home for fear that your child will turn you in, and i am not even going to touch horrors ofchild abuse and exploitation, your right, the USA is not perfect,all countries have flaws, the difference is that you are very free in the USA,if you traveled, or learned about the various abusive regimes in the world you would not have the child like attitude , you have
 want to travel
Joined: 7/29/2006
Msg: 75
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The most imprisoned nation on earth
Posted: 2/23/2009 11:14:26 AM
Kingreol; you are right about the fact that people in the western 'democracies' are loosing there freedoms,but that should be blamed on the apathy of people and the corruption of governments,look up eisenhowers final address as president, in 1960, he warned the citizen s, of the USA, very clearly that they would loose there freedoms,and rights, if they did not re gain control over there government
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