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 TOMic bomb
Joined: 10/5/2008
Msg: 61
The most imprisoned nation on earthPage 5 of 8    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8)
this is obviously a pro- drug forum question.
the real question should be why are we putting drug affenders in jail?

the answer: DRUG USERS AND SELLERS SHOULD BE IN JAIL. THAT IS WHERE THEY BELONG.

marijuana dopers, meth dopers and all the other wastoids need to be away from the general populace and incarcerated. they are dangerous and no real patriotic Americans want them around. are drugs, dopers and dope sellers good for America?

definately and resoundingly NO!! put them away.
 compleat_man
Joined: 10/3/2008
Msg: 62
The most imprisoned nation on earth
Posted: 1/7/2009 9:21:40 AM
^^

also applies to alcohol dopers..are they good for America? (or any country)?

no. lock them all up & throw away the key..soon you can achieve a population with half the people incarcerated..yay!!

OR be just like Iran, Iraq, Taliban/Afghanistan.. off with their heads!

sort of ironic to 'fight for freedom' over there..then want to be a lot more like them..

hmm, would plumbers OR lawyers want a system simple enough that people could do more of it (or all) themselves?

I highly doubt it..

what people SAY and what they actually want or do, do not always coincide.

I assume you 'know' enough lawyers to form a statistically significant sample size? or are you basing this scientific conclusion on 2 or 3 people?
 nebula22
Joined: 8/14/2007
Msg: 63
The most imprisoned nation on earth
Posted: 1/7/2009 9:37:29 AM
Hey,, tomic GOD,,, Was you doing your Valtrix and drinking alcohol at the SAME time when you posted that?
Do us Americans a favour and move to Iran to be with your brothern.

While I agree that no-one needs to do crack, meth or any of those brain killers, I am also aware that POT is very useful for many things including preventing blindness and alzheimer's.

Get your self another mixed drink and thank the real GOD for your freedom to do that..
 TOMic bomb
Joined: 10/5/2008
Msg: 64
The most imprisoned nation on earth
Posted: 1/7/2009 9:46:52 AM
thanks for saying silly things. it helps to prove my point.

you sir are not a true patrotic American if you espouse dope use. it is illegal and should be.

you can't get away from the fact that marijuana dopers are no good for America or the people and children who you may interact with.

if you are caught doing your potsmoking around your children they will be put into a foster home. is this what you want? is that good for you or your children?

if you want to do drugs and be a brain addled zombie living in the twilight zone, YOU go to the caribbean islands and please stay there. no decent people want you HERE.
 compleat_man
Joined: 10/3/2008
Msg: 65
The most imprisoned nation on earth
Posted: 1/7/2009 9:55:30 AM
IMO, most decent people (esp. men) don't waste $$ on face-lifts, dying their hair black, and getting fake tans trying so hard to look a few years younger than they actually are..

do you realize that black hair dye can addle your brains..in fact can cause brain cancer with prolonged usage?
 TOMic bomb
Joined: 10/5/2008
Msg: 66
The most imprisoned nation on earth
Posted: 1/7/2009 10:52:25 AM
i might postulate that that is true with one change. not most of the world's but rather some of the world's music.

no doubt drug use makes for a creative brain at that moment. but there's much more to life than being creative. you have to be able to steer your way through life's real world abstacles to be fully successful as a human being. to do that requires clear and lucid thinking. pot smoking robs you of that.

compleat man msg 130 says:



most decent people (esp. men) don't waste $$ on face-lifts, dying their hair black, and getting fake tans trying so hard to look a few years younger than they actually are..

do you realize that black hair dye can addle your brains..in fact can cause brain cancer with prolonged usage?


no, i didn't know that COMPLEAT MAN. when the time comes to use those products or get a face lift i'll remember your advice. thanks for thinking i'm so young. sincere compliments are always welcome.

in the meantime did you know that drug use such as pot smoking causes some men to chronically misspell some words? such as the word COMPLETE? : D
 Twilightslove
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 67
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The most imprisoned nation on earth
Posted: 1/7/2009 2:51:02 PM
Higher Profits Require More Prisoners
For private prison corporations, the financial bottom line depends on high incarceration rates. With millions
of dollars invested in prison construction costs, private prison companies work assiduously to minimize any
risks to profits. In their annual reports to stockholders, both Corrections Corporation of America and
Cornell Corrections (which together account for more than 60 percent of the market share) recognize their
reliance on state legislatures and the threat that a lower crime rate or reduced corrections budget poses for
their profits.
CCA’s S.E.C. filings (March 31, 1997) contained this list of Risk Factors: “Short-Term Nature of
Government Contracts, Dependence on Government Appropriations, and Dependence on Government
Agencies for Inmates.”
9
Private prison corporations need influence at the state level because state governments are their primary
clients. Unlike many other corrections issues, where corrections professionals determine the approach, the
key decision-makers on prison privatization issues are the elected legislators and governors who pass
corrections department appropriations and sentencing legislation.
According to the 1998 Congressional study, Private Prisons in the United States, “[Most] contracting for
imprisonment services was not taken at the initiative of the correctional agency, but was instead mandated
by either the legislature or the chief executive of the jurisdiction, typically the governor.”
10
As a result, influencing elected officials at the
state level has become a key business strategy
for private prison corporations.
3
WESTERN PRISON PROJECT • WESTERN STATES CENTER
The past twenty years have marked a dramatic shift to downright vengeful criminal justice policies. State and
federal legislation has criminalized more and more behaviors, incarcerated offenders for longer stretches of
time, and dismantled most rehabilitative and transition services that could help prisoners successfully re-
integrate into society.
On the federal level, the incarceration boom has been promoted by the Sentencing Reform Act of 1984, the
Violent Crime Control & Law Enforcement Act of 1994, the Illegal Immigration and Immigrant
Responsibility Act of 1996 and other key legislation. Most of the action, however, has been at the state level,
where a range of harsh criminal justice legislation has resulted in massive increases in the prison population.
Some of this state-level activity was encouraged by legislation at the federal level, such as the 1994 Crime
Act, which provides money for prison construction to states which pass “Truth-in-Sentencing” legislation.
Much of the legislation at the state level was crafted by a single organization, in partnership with private
prison interests.
The American Legislative Exchange Council
Hundreds of similar pieces of criminal justice legislation were
introduced in states throughout the country in the mid-
1990s. Their origin can be clearly traced to the influence and
work of one conservative organization: the American
Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC).
ALEC is a Washington, D.C.-based public policy
organization that supports conservative legislators. Launched
in 1973 by Paul Weyrich (a Heritage Foundation founder and
major New Right figure), ALEC exemplifies the overlap
between the corporate sector and public policy.
With over 40 percent of state legislators as members, ALEC
represents a formidable force in state capitols across the
country. Of the more than 6,000 state legislators in the
United States, approximately 2,500 are members of ALEC, including scores who hold key leadership
positions.
A chief function of the Council is the development of model legislative proposals that advance conservative
principles like privatization. In 1995-96, ALEC’s model legislation resulted in 1,647 bills, including 365 that
became law (a 22 percent success rate). By 1999, introduction of bills based on ALEC’s model had increased
by 34 percent; of 2,208 ALEC bills, 322 were enacted into law.
11
The Corporate Connection
Business foots the bill for much of ALEC’s operating budget and directly shapes its political agenda through
participation in policy task forces. In 1992, 70 percent of ALEC’s $3.7 million budget came from
corporations. By 1998, the organization’s budget had grown to more than $6 million, with 68 percent
coming from corporate donations.
Section II: The Legislative Pipeline
http://www.privateci.org/private_pics/inc_prisonprivatization%5b1%5d.pdf
 Twilightslove
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 68
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The most imprisoned nation on earth
Posted: 1/7/2009 6:49:39 PM
The Private Prison industry is now pleased to be a part of immigration reform even though most of the immigrants are guilty of misdemeanor offenses and should simply be deported.

http://realcostofprisons.org/blog/archives/2008/11/private_prison_3.html
 shmodzilla
Joined: 10/6/2008
Msg: 69
The most imprisoned nation on earth
Posted: 1/7/2009 8:10:12 PM
Yea, it's not cheesey TV commercials that give potheads a bad name.
 compleat_man
Joined: 10/3/2008
Msg: 70
The most imprisoned nation on earth
Posted: 1/8/2009 10:10:04 AM

Pot has the reputation it does because the hysteria against marijuana has been cultivated for decades by the evangelical lunatics and other self-interest groups set out to "demonize" it. Ever seen the ridiculous movie "Reefer Madness?" The movie is supposed to be taken seriously but it's the most shameful bit of anti-marijuana propaganda for the ages.


if we're going to get honest, the demonization of marijuana is largely due to RACISM reaing its ugly head.

when marijuana was essentially made illegal or a 'controlled substance' in the mid 1930's in most states of the US (culminating in the "Marihuana Tax Act of 1937" - federal law)

it was to a large degree because of fear and hatred of the Mexican immigrants, and black people, amongst whom marijuana use was more popular than amongst "Caucasian-Americans"..

you know, upstanding WHITE people in law enforcement and gov't just KNEW that all those Mexicans and blacks would be smoking dope and FORNICATING with their (white) daughters and womenfolk!!

(said with sarcasm..not NOT my beliefs..but the propaganda of the time..)

what might be even worse..if their white womenfolk smoked dope..they might CRAVE carnal knowledge with these people!!

so they made ridiculous propaganda (e.g. the "Reefer Madness" movie where a puff of a joint turns everyone into sex-crazed rapists & killers..) and proceeded to make marijuana illegal..Pot Prohibition..

the really ridiculous part is that pretty well everyone knows that ALCOHOL use in fact leads to many more people becoming violent, to assault, rape and murder, etc.

most stoners just get sleepy & passive..ask an honest cop..they'd rather deal with stoners than with a bunch of drunk rowdy people.
 Double Cabin
Joined: 11/29/2004
Msg: 71
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The most imprisoned nation on earth
Posted: 1/8/2009 11:05:04 AM
AntinJersey,

With all due respect are you using 2002 statistics? Did I miss something on Google? Private Prison Population is on the decline and they're building more and more private prisons?

Since that's not the case TODAY here's something from just a couple of months ago:

http://bronxnews.wordpress.com/2008/11/20/larger-inmate-population-is-boon-to-private-prisons/

The economic record dictates the fact that many things should never have been allowed to become industries; insurance, healthcare, highway construction, and INCARCERATION among them. We have people flying planes into buildings, putting deadly agents into envelopes, "legally" stealing people's pensions and life savings, and unfathomably unqualified loans have put us in the toughest spot since the depression and you people think someone smoking dope is a big problem and supporting terrorism?

Talk about misplaced priorities. Just say no to deceitful agendas. The black market is the most destructive element of society for one reason, the powers that be indulge it. Do you really think Pot would be illegal if a pharmeceutical company could patent the plant? Really? LMFAO.
 nebula22
Joined: 8/14/2007
Msg: 72
The most imprisoned nation on earth
Posted: 1/8/2009 2:37:58 PM
The racist bull crap about the Mexicans and blacks that was used for an excuse to make marijuana illegal was just a cover for the real reason they wanted to make pot illegal.

DuPont hired a man named Herman Oliphant to come up with a way to make HEMP illegal..
DuPont had just bought the patents for Rayon and Nylon as well as buying up most of the cotton industry and wanted the natural competition eliminated.

This is the true reason for the Marijuana Tax act.
They couldn't legally make it illegal but could put a heavy enough tax on it so as to make it unprofitable to grow.
 Onceuponatime61
Joined: 10/10/2008
Msg: 73
The most imprisoned nation on earth
Posted: 2/20/2009 9:52:21 PM
Some countries have all their law's in an arm load of books. Americans have an intire library to hold their law books. Most people in American prizons never did the crime. They were merly entraped. As a general rule most people was like scamed into some careful planed trap created by police and lawyers.
It's mainly a revenue for money. Some people say the biggest criminals are not Joe blow walking down the street. Its the men in the cars wearing the badges. One guy said the law is nothing more than paid stalkers that doesn't live by the laws they enforce.
It's against the law to have fun.
 want to travel
Joined: 7/29/2006
Msg: 74
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The most imprisoned nation on earth
Posted: 2/22/2009 9:37:27 AM
I am a very proud Canadian ,who really has traveled the world, there may be a huge prison population in the USA, but there are many many countries on the planet that are prisons unto themselves, you compared communist china to the USA, that would in my mind make you a naive little child,there is no freedom of speech, no freedom of the press, extream police brutality is the norm,no human rights, corruption at all levels of government, and everyday life,as for racism,heaven forbid you belong to one of the dozens of national minorities, you are not even free to express yourself in your own home for fear that your child will turn you in, and i am not even going to touch horrors ofchild abuse and exploitation, your right, the USA is not perfect,all countries have flaws, the difference is that you are very free in the USA,if you traveled, or learned about the various abusive regimes in the world you would not have the child like attitude , you have
 want to travel
Joined: 7/29/2006
Msg: 75
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The most imprisoned nation on earth
Posted: 2/23/2009 11:14:26 AM
Kingreol; you are right about the fact that people in the western 'democracies' are loosing there freedoms,but that should be blamed on the apathy of people and the corruption of governments,look up eisenhowers final address as president, in 1960, he warned the citizen s, of the USA, very clearly that they would loose there freedoms,and rights, if they did not re gain control over there government
 Samurai41
Joined: 4/29/2008
Msg: 76
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The most imprisoned nation on earth
Posted: 2/23/2009 11:22:31 AM
why are so many americans in proison?

because so many break the law.

that is the only answer to that question.

yes you can go neck deep into WHY so many break the law, but the simple fact is they do.

And the funny thing is, in this country, we go out of our way NOT to send people to prison. For pretty much everything, for the first offense, they dont get time, they get probation.

so all those people in prison, the majority are in there for the 2nd,3rd, or 33rd thing they did.

the only real problem is figuring out WHY so many people break the law.

and it doesnt matter if you think the law is un-fair, it is the law, and breaking it is a decision they made, KNOWING the consequences.
 wisguyingb
Joined: 1/5/2008
Msg: 77
The most imprisoned nation on earth
Posted: 2/24/2009 4:13:30 AM
Maybe we need prisons more like Iran or the Soviet Union.

Prison guards should not fear the inmates, it should be vice versa......

America is a pretty easy place to work and live. I have no pity for criminals and murders. They have no rights in my eyes.

Getting to your question. Yes many people are in prison for "drug crimes." Which in my eye's is not a huge crime. Don't get me wrong though it's still a crime but it's no murder/etc. But in the end it's still a crime. And until drugs become legal they are a crime. It's good to note that I strongly believe not everyone wants to be "saved." The government could save a ton of money by ending the war on drugs and legalizing drugs and taxing them. We should have learned some lessons during Prohibition.

Now getting to back to some "sarcasm"

According to the OP were are the "Most imprisoned nation on earth."

Does that make North Korea the most free nation on earth?

-They do have low crime there....

And finally some good remarks.

Regarding message #162
-I do agree we are lossing Freedoms here and THAT change is alarming people.

Regarding message #165
-Much of our lost freedom is to be blamed on the apathy of the people. And I agree with you.
 shmodzilla
Joined: 10/6/2008
Msg: 78
The most imprisoned nation on earth
Posted: 2/28/2009 11:16:11 AM
Most of these countries being used as examples for having low inprisonment rate have low rates of people in prison because after they are found guilty of murder or other serious crimes they get marched out back and take one to the back of the head. End of story, no appeal,no possibility of parol ,you are done.
 wisguyingb
Joined: 1/5/2008
Msg: 79
The most imprisoned nation on earth
Posted: 3/2/2009 7:22:11 AM
Regarding message 171 who is quoting message 170

I think we all know that he meant places like Iran, North Korea, China, pre-invasion Iraq, Afghanistan, places all over Africa, Saudi Arabia, India etc.

But I suppose you find no difference in the Nations I mentioned to the nations you mentioned.

I never even saw North Korea #'s per 100,000 people on your link.
-Ahh, those North Koreans must be living in total Harmony. Why is it that no one is in prison there? Must be a real happy place....

We all know the truth is that many people are terrified to commit crime in some nations because of the harsh punishment or the horrid conditions of the prison itself.

And "shmodzilla" did not even mention these Nations-Norway, England, France, Germany, Belgium, Switzerland, Sweden, Japan, Canada etc? You Did.

Your putting words in his mouth that he never took credit for and attempting to make him look like a idiot.

I actually think we could use some Harsh laws and gulags in America. Perhaps a hard 12 hour day in a old coal mine with no safety gear might not be as appealing as pumping iron and watching TV. And if the mine caves in...oh well. But hey we are in a "Energy Crisis" and sure could use every last chunk of coal...lol

Prime example of a nation you cleverly forgot to mention.
--Iranian man to be blinded with acid for doing same to woman.
www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/12/14/iran.acid.justice/index.html

Is that Nation's idea of punishment not "barbaric" enough to mention in your little summary of "barbaric" nations?

 shmodzilla
Joined: 10/6/2008
Msg: 80
The most imprisoned nation on earth
Posted: 3/2/2009 1:58:58 PM
Don't fret i am used to it. I don't think i have had a reply to any of my post here ever without it being a childish attack,name calling and so on. Meanwhile we can compare apples to oranges all day. Can i take seriously someone trying to compare a country with virtually one culture and the population that is hardly that of just one of our cities? So Brussel's murder rate is reported at 10 per 100K yet New York city with 4 times the population s reported at 7 per 100k. See ,we can play look at the stupid numbers games all day long.

We can stop the issue of acting like our prisons are full of innocent occasional bong hitters as well. For the most part people are not in prison because they had a baggy of pot in their pocket. They are in prison because they were on parole for something else then violated it after getting busted with pot or they beat their wife half to death and the copss found pot in the house and so on.
 shmodzilla
Joined: 10/6/2008
Msg: 81
The most imprisoned nation on earth
Posted: 3/2/2009 2:20:46 PM
I guess there is not much reason for me to reply anymore since you continue to speak for us. If we were the civilized ones then we would not have so many criminals landing themselves in prison to create the problem. And thats all, ive said my mind here.
 wisguyingb
Joined: 1/5/2008
Msg: 82
The most imprisoned nation on earth
Posted: 3/3/2009 5:10:39 AM
First off you say you've played benefit shows in prisons(regarding message 174) and describe the conditions as horrendous.,violent, and dangerous. Hmmm I wonder why....?. Probably because those people were violent and dangerous in society. It's kinda a no brainer.

Who cares how bad the prisoners have it here in the USA? I sure don't care about them. But I do care about the people that they HURT and the families affected. I have no sorrows for rapists, murders etc. As far as I'm concerned they are a burden on American taxpayers and should be used in some sort of labor camp in order to pay back society and the cost of their trial's and imprisonment.

If you break the law or hurt someone you go to prison, its simple.

Why should I feel bad about the "conditions" in in our prisons that house men that raped, murdered, child molested etc...?

They are human scum and need to be removed from society.

The only people that I worry about about in prison are the guards, staff and visitors.

A bit off topic
--Who in their in their right mind would want a "reformed" murderer or child molester living next to them? Anyone answering Yes is truly nut's in my eyes.
 Twilightslove
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 83
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The most imprisoned nation on earth
Posted: 3/6/2009 8:13:03 PM
This is what privatizing prisons has done:


This revolting trade in human lives is an incentive to lock people up

The inmate population has soared since Britain started running prisons for profit. Little wonder lobbyists want Titan jails
It's a staggering case; more staggering still that it has scarcely been mentioned on this side of the ocean. Last week two judges in Pennsylvania were convicted of jailing some 2,000 children in exchange for bribes from private prison companies.

Mark Ciavarella and Michael Conahan sent children to jail for offences so trivial that some of them weren't even crimes. A 15-year-old called Hillary Transue got three months for creating a spoof web page ridiculing her school's assistant principal. Ciavarella sent Shane Bly, then 13, to boot camp for trespassing in a vacant building. He gave a 14-year-old, Jamie Quinn, 11 months in prison for slapping a friend during an argument, after the friend slapped her. The judges were paid $2.6m by companies belonging to the Mid-Atlantic Youth Services Corp for helping to fill its jails. This is what happens when public services are run for profit.

It's an extreme example, but it hints at the wider consequences of the trade in human lives created by private prisons. In the US and the UK they have a powerful incentive to ensure that the number of prisoners keeps rising.

The US is more corrupt than the UK, but it is also more transparent. There the lobbyists demanding and receiving changes to judicial policy might be exposed, and corrupt officials identified and prosecuted. The UK, with a strong tradition of official secrecy and a weak tradition of scrutiny and investigative journalism, has no such safeguards.

The corrupt judges were paid by the private prisons not only to increase the number of child convicts but also to shut down a competing prison run by the public sector. Taking bribes to bang up kids might be novel; shutting public facilities to help private companies happens - on both sides of the water - all the time.

The Wall Street Journal has shown how, as a result of lobbying by the operators, private jails in Mississippi and California are being paid for non- existent prisoners. The prison corporations have been guaranteed a certain number of inmates. If the courts fail to produce enough convicts, they get their money anyway. This outrages taxpayers in both states, which have cut essential public services to raise these funds. But there is a simple means of resolving this problem: you replace ghost inmates with real ones. As the Journal, seldom associated with raging anti-capitalism, observes: "Prison expansion [has] spawned a new set of vested interests with stakes in keeping prisons full and in building more ... The result has been a financial and political bazaar, with convicts in stripes as the prize."

Even as crime declines, lawmakers are pressed by their sponsors to increase the rate of imprisonment. The US has, by a very long way, the world's highest proportion of people behind bars: 756 prisoners per 100,000 people, just over 1% of the adult population. Similarly wealthy countries have around one-tenth of this rate of imprisonment.

Like most of its really bad ideas, the last Conservative government imported private jails from the US. As Stephen Nathan, author of a forthcoming book about prison privatisation in the UK, has shown, the notion was promoted by the home affairs select committee, which in 1986 visited prisons run by the Corrections Corporation of America (CCA). When the corporation told them that private provision in the US improved prison standards and delivered good value for money, the committee members failed to check its claims. They recommended that the government should put the construction and management of prisons out to tender "as an experiment".

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/mar/03/prison-population-titan-jails
 maxxoccupancy
Joined: 2/5/2007
Msg: 84
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The most imprisoned nation on earth
Posted: 3/7/2009 11:37:13 AM
In a free society, people have the right--not the privilege--to do whatever they want, so long as they're not harming anyone else. Imprisoning someone is a serious matter, destroying not only the life of the defendant, but hurting their family as well. It costs taxpayers $40,000 per year per inmate ($60-80,000 in many politically liberal states), and often takes a highly productive member out of society. Federal prisons are often full of pot smokers, gun owners, and people who've made simple mistakes on their taxes. Prison operators get very rich off of their prison slave labor, which tends to put machinists and other manufacturers out of work.

One law group asserted that, at the current increase in incarceration, 100% of the adult population of the US will be behind bars by 2050. Even if the true figure were only 20%, would you want one of your five children growing up to a life of being prison slave labor? Is that a future? Is that what you thought of any part of your career?

The only legitimate justification for placing someone behind bars is if we can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that they have victimized someone else so badly so that there is no other option.
 wisguyingb
Joined: 1/5/2008
Msg: 85
The most imprisoned nation on earth
Posted: 3/7/2009 4:33:33 PM
The above is the dumbest thing I have read in a long time.

He makes it sound like the inmates are guilty of nothing more then petty crimes.

They kill each other in prison because they are simply board or they are from a enemy gang.

That does not sound like the behavior of a person who simply made a few mistakes on their tax forms.......

He also forgets to mention that prisons are also home to Killers, Child molesters, and rapists.
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