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 Enigma252
Joined: 3/1/2008
Msg: 151
SatanismPage 7 of 9    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9)
It's hard to tell how many people on this thread have actually done some invocation workings . . . .

Anyone who ventures forth and works with the thousands of powers, entities, gods, etc., realizes that they are dealing with a "real" power. Tfey are there, they exist, you just can't plug them into a wall and turn them on like a lamp. We could be addresses 35,000 Hindu gods/goddesses here . . . . . . .

That being said, that "power" can be used for positve and negative expression. Just like the heat for our homes can burn down the whole neighborhood. Personal responsibility is often the issue here. WHAT YOU DO COMES BACK TO YOU.

I don't care if you are praying in a church or doing a magic circle. If your needs are met you need to think about "the bank account in the sky" and be ready to serve in some capacity. This needs to be done with an open heart, too.

I've known of a lot occultist that have cooked themselves over the years because they were self-servicing ***holes. These are not folks that I hang out with.

A lot of Satanist cross over to the OTO, which appears to have stabilized itself over the years--at least that's what I've noticed with the Salem, MA group. I attribute a lot of the reduction of self-serving behavior at everyone else's expense, to Lon Milo DuQuette for being a loving reformer, author & teacher. He appears to be the most public persona with that organization.
 taurus516
Joined: 11/3/2004
Msg: 152
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History
Satanism
Posted: 7/4/2008 12:24:15 PM

To me he is simply a fallen angel ..


To me,he's just another character made of a composite of earlier pagan deities. Just like Jesus. Not real, exists only in the imagination.
 clarence clutterbuck
Joined: 4/13/2008
Msg: 153
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History
Satanism
Posted: 7/4/2008 7:22:08 PM

Anyone who ventures forth and works with the thousands of powers, entities, gods, etc., realizes that they are dealing with a "real" power. They are there, they exist, you just can't plug them into a wall and turn them on like a lamp. We could be addresses 35,000 Hindu gods/goddesses here . . . . . . .

do these deities have any power over a child who is brought up to have no knowledge of or belief in them ,whatsoever?
 Lilith Delost
Joined: 8/16/2007
Msg: 154
RE: Message 132
Posted: 7/5/2008 12:33:34 AM
As a LaVeyan Satanist I figure I'll put my attempt to explain the COS reply to im_literit.

They said: The idea of acknowledging magic is solely meant for internal psychological integration, not for some paranormal or supernatural reasons.

Meaning: We have rituals and magic to provide a form of psychological self-help. If I am upset or very angered at something I will go to my ritual chamber and perform a destruction ritual, which si consdiered a form of 'lesser magic'.



They said: Playing one “game” and then contradicting it in other aspects of behavior can lead to certain forms of unease and emotional dissonance. Thus it is pragmatic, materialistic, and quite functionally apt – in our experience.

I'm not 100% sure, so don't pin me to this as fact, but I think by game he means action. If you do one thing and say another it isn't very helpful or beneficial. Its hypocritical and stupid.

For more information on magic in Satanism see this site: http://www.dpjs.co.uk/magic.html

It might even explain it better then I could.
 Ravenstar66
Joined: 8/27/2007
Msg: 155
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History
RE: Message 132
Posted: 7/7/2008 5:28:16 PM
Pan was a fertility god... and the old gods were frequently not always benevolent. They had their dark sides.

Magick is very real... but I think people mistake ritual for magick.. ritual is quite rightly a way to change your psychological state.. (and physical, as shown by experienced meditators in quite a few studies) which has many uses, but it's not magick... maybe one way to tap into it though - most new-agers are overly dramatic, and frequently not able to be objective. Not sure why. I think one of the misperceptions of magick is that it's something "special" that is only done by a few in very proscribed ways, but I think the real case is it is something that permeates life itself and everyone performs magick all the time.

I see magick as akin to (or the same as) the observer phenomena in quantum mechanics, just part of the way the universe works. Basically life is magick.. and the universe seems to be set up to respond to life. I reading a very interesting book right now called "Biocosm" which looks into the phenomena and research into the anthropic principles of the universe. I'm only just into it so can't paraphrase yet, but it's truly fascinating.

JMHO

Peace
 NorwegianWinter
Joined: 5/23/2009
Msg: 156
Satanism
Posted: 6/6/2009 7:27:26 PM
HAHAHAHAHA!!!

I must admit I have found everyone's views and "knowledge" on Satanism to be quite fascinating, extremely entertaining, and for most part incorrect. This I attribute primarily to a LACK of knowledge on the subject. TRUE Satanism is beyond a religion. Sure, I did notice that there were a few facts stated in different posts that had a bit of truth to them, depending on which denomination or sect of Satanism you are referring to, but most of those I discredit as being TRUE Satanism. Satanism does not parallel christianity, it breaks the barriers of all of the lies and hypocrisies which surround it. Yes, a key point to TRUE Satanism is the complete and total abolishment of christianity, but you must first know and understand the origins of BOTH religions to see the truth as to WHY this is, although as I stated previously I do not see Satanism as a religion. It is beyond the moral and cosmic constraints and doctrine of a "religion".

I was once atheistic and considered myself to be of the LaVeyan philosophy and even called myself a member of the church of Satan, but that proved to be a stepping stone which helped me open my mind to something much greater, so I cannot speak ill of the LaVeyan philosophy, though I do not consider it to be TRUE Satanism. It is merely "humanism" with a "cool" name and theatrical twist to push the buttons of society. There are many flaws with the Satanic Bible just as there are with the christian bible.

I will be more than happy to discuss this topic personally if you have any questions, but TRUE Satanism is for the sinister elite, and I only share the knowledge I have obtained with those who have a true desire to know and learn. It is a truth that transcends "good" and "evil". Nothing to do with "trekkie" mentality or music or clothes or anything of material nature.

I will say that it's kind of a shame that there aren't any dating sites for Satanists. lol.
 NorwegianWinter
Joined: 5/23/2009
Msg: 157
Satanism
Posted: 6/6/2009 7:42:21 PM
...or "adversary".
 2hi-iq-4u
Joined: 5/29/2009
Msg: 158
Satanism
Posted: 6/6/2009 8:07:21 PM
Interesting bump. You realize that most of the people who originally responded have likely moved on?

It' s a sort of logical flaw in the system. You have to search for old threads to bump, and then people respond to the OP instead of the bump.

I really don't claim to know Satanism. I sut relate to Satan being called "The father of lies" and "the great deciever." I have no desire to decieve anyone but for the purposes of protection or greater good. If Satanism understands the truth of lies, then perhaps it can a benefit to come. I am a Shamanist. I follow no one. I lead.
 chelloveck
Joined: 6/2/2007
Msg: 159
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History
Satanism
Posted: 6/7/2009 6:06:14 AM
A true satanist? Like a true christian, a true atheist or a true scotsman.....An idealised fiction to support arguments of the fallacious variety.
 scorpiomover
Joined: 4/19/2007
Msg: 160
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History
Satanism
Posted: 6/7/2009 7:32:02 AM

Which makes me laugh, cuz being a Satanist isnt a bad thing....if you're being a REAL satanist and not what the judeo-christians label a satanist (anyone who doesnt believe in Christ and the lord saviour). What are your thoughts on Satanism?
AFAIK, the word "Satan" COMES from Judeo-Xian views. So, if you don't believe that Judeo-Xian views are right, then to you, Satan doesn't exist. So how could any such person be a Satanist, anyway?
 claretshade
Joined: 2/17/2008
Msg: 161
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History
Satanism
Posted: 6/7/2009 11:17:11 AM
Mmmm, fresh troll!

The term "satan" comes- more or less- from middle eastern judeo-christian tradition. The concept of a definite, composite adversary can be dated to Zarathustra. Mostly. The notion of a "bad" force to counter the "good" force goes back even further than that.

And as mentioned before, someone already called you on your blatant "No True Scotsman" fallacy.

So, to sum it up, AFAIK- Remove all doubt? You most certainly have. Congratulations.
 Chiny®™©
Joined: 7/2/2006
Msg: 162
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Satanism
Posted: 6/9/2009 11:11:27 AM

The term "satan" comes- more or less- from middle eastern judeo-christian tradition.


Partially correct. Satan comes from Judeo-Christian-Islamic traditions is a more correct sentence.

Christianity has more in common with Islam than it does with Judaism. Practising religious Jews get quite offended when their religion is lumped together with Christianity of which they define as a deviation and thus contrary to their own truth.
 claretshade
Joined: 2/17/2008
Msg: 163
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History
Satanism
Posted: 6/12/2009 4:31:22 PM

Partially correct. Satan comes from Judeo-Christian-Islamic traditions is a more correct sentence.


No, it isn't. Islam is the "newest" monotheistic religion on the block, as it were (being founded somewhere around 612-635 AD, i.e. over 500 years after the emergence of Christianity as a distinct sect)- whereas the concept of a "bad force" that runs counter to the singular "good" of monotheism is considerably older- the first clear delineation of an "evil force" or "destructive force" as a counterpoint to a single, benevolent God comes from around 400-ish BCE- Angra Manyu, the "destructive spirit" in Zoroastrianism.

Thus, if an adversarial entity existed prior to Islam, lumping Islam in would be erroneous. Christian canon includes an adversarial figure, as does judaic canon- though the christian canon is considerably more specific. Thus, since it exists in both judaic and christian canon, it is judeo-christian. Even though it is more prominently mentioned in christian scriptures, it is not exclusively christian. Judaic canon and Christian canon describe the evil force as an entity (more so the christian canon), while Zoroastrian canon describes it as a condition, not an actual figure. Thus, Zoroastrianism cannot be included.

Since nobody on the forums wants to read a lengthy essay on the origins of satan- and I most definitely do not want to write one, as I'm on vacation- I added the phrase "more or less". Which in this case means, "there's a big long explanation for the topic I am addressing, but that big long explanation says practically the same thing, so it's not worth going into".

There.
 themadfiddler
Joined: 9/17/2008
Msg: 164
Satanism
Posted: 6/13/2009 1:09:42 PM
The thing is guys, the Satanic church doesn't really worship the Christian's paganized bogeyman...well there may be one or two branches of "literalistic" types out there but I think mainstream Satanists would view them as missing the boat...or not...maybe our thread bumper would contribute to that.

Satanism is more a celebration of the impulse of self and recognition that - from their point of view - traditional religion has created a master/slave mentality. And as Milton's Lucifer puts it, "Better to rule in Hell than Serve in Heaven" so why not develop a philosophy around this. Some of the more paganist Satanists added elements of occult practices some more or less watered down as was mentioned earlier in the thread. Some view them as purely psychodrama type events, some view them as magick in the sense that something is happening beyond merely in their own mind. Some have personified the inimical spirits of ancient times and invoke or evoke them in such work such as Set or Loki or the Christian demons.

Satanists themselves do not "necessarily" acknowledge the reality of these things as anything other than mental constructs however...things that have uses and may be picked up and discarded when one is done with them.

In Judaism, the ha'satan (the origin of the phrase) is the adversary, the impulse to choose evil over good. It is also personified as an angel. It is made very clear in Judaism that this personified force of an angel is NOT given free will...no angels are in Judaism. They are all creations of Hashem. Only man has the will to choose between good and evil in the cosmology of Judaism and Hashem created all things, good and evil in the hopes that man will choose good.

Is this the original perspective. Hard to say. Religious Jews argue yes. Archaeologists argue no and suggest that the Hebrew culture was once henotheistic and before that polytheistic and a branch of Canaanite culture and viewed good and evil more like its neighbours.

Christianity seems to have inherited some of its notions of an independent Satan and a war in heaven and fallen angels from apocryphal literature written around the first few centuries, probably by the Gnostic Church. It sure isn't Judaism. Books like the Book of Enoch describe angels called the Nephilim teaching forbidden knowledge to mankind in a Prometheus like story and being cast into the pit and tortured (obvious Hellenistic influence here).
 2hi-iq-4u
Joined: 5/29/2009
Msg: 165
Satanism
Posted: 6/13/2009 1:18:33 PM
I find some of these dictionary responses hilarious.

The term Christianity comes from "those who follow Jesus"

"Love they neighbor", Right?

"Judge not lest ye be judged," eh?

Do these sound like any Christians you have met? Recently?

(I know there are some)
 themadfiddler
Joined: 9/17/2008
Msg: 166
Satanism
Posted: 6/13/2009 2:10:58 PM
Now now, lets be nice...these forums are quite atypical. I happened to spend most of yesterday drinking beer and watching Babylon 5 videos with a very educated and very well read Christian friend of mine with whom I engage in many a religious discussion.

I think the caveats are there. Beer. Educated. Well read. Must be a Lutheran. Or maybe some kind of Irish Catholic. In this case a Lutheran. Those words of Jesus EXACTLY describe the kind of life they try to live. I don't think they are the exception. I just think we see a lot of squeaky wheels around here sometimes that think a differing opinion is an attack on core beliefs...and an inability to separate themselves from those beliefs long enough to carry on an adult conversation.
 2hi-iq-4u
Joined: 5/29/2009
Msg: 167
Satanism
Posted: 6/13/2009 5:51:13 PM
^^

There are many who try to follow the precepts and fail. Even most Christians admit that there are plenty of "Sunday Christians," who work on a quick route to hell during the week, but show up for church bright and early every Sunday.

Anyway, the point was that "Satanism" is simply a word for a belief that is practiced differently by different groups, and there is not a right way or wrong way to worship Satan. If there was a right way to worship wrong guy, would it make sense in the first place?
 scorpiomover
Joined: 4/19/2007
Msg: 168
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Satanism
Posted: 9/12/2009 7:47:10 AM

It's cool when you are 14 to 16 but if you're still doing it in your mid 20's, then it's just plain sad. Grow some balls, become an Atheist and be done with it.

No gods, no masters.
I agree that it's really only cool for teenagers, or for people who still live like they're teenage hippies, as I knew quite a few. But once you become an atheist, you're not getting rid of your gods and masters. You're simply replacing them with big business, the media, and whoever is backing the President.
 Uncle Fist
Joined: 12/18/2006
Msg: 169
Satanism
Posted: 10/3/2009 2:47:41 PM
^Good point. Personally, I've found athiesm to be more of the trendy college religion you get into when you've decided you're "too grown up" for Satanism or Paganism or Wicca or any of the other popular teenage religions.

I tend to see most people over the age of 25 that are still athiests as living with some type of stunted spiritual growth.
 freetime2bme
Joined: 1/16/2006
Msg: 170
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Satanism
Posted: 10/5/2009 1:37:46 PM
"I tend to see most people over the age of 25 that are still athiests as living with some type of stunted spiritual growth."


Logical spiritual growth I.E. question every thing and look for the truth has no real end but being/becoming an athiest. I tend to see people that believe in a god as just be cult members who can not think for them self or just scared little ****es that need to hold on to hope of life after death. What is so sad is when you try to talk facts with these meat heads, they always at some point just go back to god work is a mistery or some other BS. There is no logical reasoning in an idea of a god, talk about stunted spiritual growth. The more educated or the high ones IQ the more likely they are to be an athiest. High IQ and more education does not stunt anything. Blind fath in a lie does.
 Uncle Fist
Joined: 12/18/2006
Msg: 171
Satanism
Posted: 10/22/2009 7:44:36 PM
Perhaps you're confusing religion and spirituality. Most athiests I have encountered typically have no concept of spirituality. To them, if it cannot be quantified in hard terms, it does not exist. This is a learned behavior. Like many of the things we become indoctrinated with as we age. It is not natural.

Evidentally, you also know something Einstein did not because he was uncomfortable with the notion that the universe was in fact finite because it led him to the belief that there was something beyond it. Perhaps your IQ is greater than his?

Logic is a wonderfully useful thing, but too much logic can be a bad thing. Ever notice how the really brainy guys with the super high IQs that enjoy hobbies involving science and physics more often than not have no clue how to attract women? Meanwhile the meat heads who can't add 2+2 without getting 5 have no problem getting laid like crazy. Because they don't have the handicap of overthinking. They're more in tune with their nature. Meanwhile, the geeks boast their cerebral superiority in condescending fashion despite their sexual ineptness. A high IQ breeds intelligence, but it also breeds arrogance. Arrogance closes the mind to awareness. This is why some of the most educated people in the world are also some of the most clueless.
 Psychopomp of Eden
Joined: 9/21/2009
Msg: 172
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Satanism
Posted: 10/22/2009 8:25:37 PM
I get it, there is a primal/ own nature people need to be attuned to... I support that idea, poon is relative to nature/impulse. But brains can get instinct mastery as well, they just need to quiet their mind or study it... then go "zen" dating. lol.

This thread is a big reminder of why Satanism is a joke or phrase used in passing to give an antagonist character a description.

In reverse engineering some of christianity views and some verses plucked from the bible. There is both reason and point of view on a applicable theistic or just practical Satanist.
I prefer to think of myself as a non-denominational Satanist as I don't call myself a "REAL" Satanist, pretending it is some how more in touch with the roots of blah blah blah (see even I thought the sentence of uppity bs was so ridicules it was too boring to finish typing).

I believe in altered states of consciousness and all that jazz as I have personally experienced it. Yeah yeah, probably going "CRAZY" but people experience them all the time with dedication and focus, that was back in my "christian" days.
imo and experience...
Pride should be the root of a Satanist, simple. Pride comes before the fall. Ask a skydiver falling is fun, it is the splat that gets you and in life we all go splat in the end.
Selfishness, you need to temper it with "enlightenment"... fancy way of how people work and the world works. Get what you want with wily cunning and remembering how things affect each other, in other words remember how things can come back to you.
After learning about the world, find out what "gets you off". Makes you experience joy, in what ever form. I don't care and to be honest it isn't my business if you enjoy subversion/bsdm/some other psychological kick.
Freedom/defiance, don't let groups or views of others hinder your seeking of your indulgence, aka "joy".
....there you have it, my view of practical satanism in a nutshell. it is very applicable and preserves your existence as long as you remember to think of how your selfishness could affect you and its potential consequences. I am not saying it says don't do anything, just be ready for what could happen.
People may say that is encouraging all manner of unpleasant activities, but I say that is bs and makes a person no more likely than any other belief or point of view to cause "unpleasant activities". If anything it is more likely to have someone tell people to go f-ck their self and start trying to live for theirself (ishness) instead of sucking up to people's ideals/relationship bs.
 StoneMagnetic
Joined: 1/17/2010
Msg: 173
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History
Satanism
Posted: 1/21/2010 12:31:05 PM
First and foremost there are a few different types of satanism in the world. Today we have new groups who have emerged from the ashes of older, or past cults. The first is the ressurection of the Golden Dawn that is now practiced in California(last I heard, so dont quote me on it). For those of you who dont know who or what this is, it's a re-creation of the religion founded by the beast himself, Aliester Crowley.
The second of course is the Church of Satan that was founded by the late Anton Levay. If you are very familiar with these groups then you know exactly where Im going with this.
Modern Satanism is what I refer the C.O.S. as because they have no real set of rules, and of course they are a more modern practice of the religion. I have also heard it reffered to as the "rich mans' satanism". They say "Indulge" which can be alot of fun. My thoughts on it are, as long as you have something to believe in you'll be fine. As far as the term "Anti" goes, well, look at Marlyin Mansons past albums and his biography. He's claimed to be the anti-christ more than once. So have other cult leaders.
Levay on the other hand in the Satanic Bible said; "If there is such a thing as the devil, than I am doing his work."
I find this to be quite hysterical because if you look at old footage of films like The Devils Rain, or Devil Dudes, you'll see the black pope himself dressed up in a devil suit. Classic, yet cartoonish as always of Levay
Though like many groups you must understand, there are those few who are deemed "The Real Deal." My opinion is, these are the ones you have got to watch out for, for they can and will, kill and or harm you just for fun.
A classic example of this was shown in a film called Bless The Child with Kim Basinger and Rufus Swelle. (not sure if I spelled his name right.)
Rufus's character whos name I have forgotten shows the "Upscale" life of a satanist, while you see the rest of the cult as street urchins. In the film it depicts how far some people and groups are willing to go.
Enough of my ranting though, so...whatever you do, dont let others critisize or judge you based on your looks. It's what's on the inside that counts my friend.
 themadfiddler
Joined: 12/9/2009
Msg: 174
Satanism
Posted: 1/21/2010 12:46:57 PM


First and foremost there are a few different types of satanism in the world. Today we have new groups who have emerged from the ashes of older, or past cults. The first is the ressurection of the Golden Dawn that is now practiced in California(last I heard, so dont quote me on it). For those of you who dont know who or what this is, it's a re-creation of the religion founded by the beast himself, Aliester Crowley.


Sorry this is, respectfully, completely incorrect. And Aleister Crowley was only a member...and was in fact expelled for publishing their rituals. He did not create the Golden Dawn at all and later incorporated it's teachings into his own order. And Crowley was never a "Satanist" but enjoyed being referred to as one by the ignorant plebs because it added to his general infamy and played well into his complete scorn of traditional religion, especially traditional Christianity of the Victorian English variety and it's stuffy morals, to which many members of the Golden Dawn and similar orders subscribed.

If you really want to know about Aleister Crowley, the best people to read are Robert Anton Wilson and:



Author and Crowley expert Lon Milo Duquette wrote in his 1993 work The Magick of Aleister Crowley that:

"Crowley clothed many of his teachings in the thin veil of sensational titillation. By doing so he assured himself that one, his works would only be appreciated by the few individuals capable of doing so, and two, his works would continue to generate interest and be published by and for the benefit of both his admirers and his enemies long after death. He did not—I repeat not—perform or advocate human sacrifice. He was often guilty, however, of the crime of poor judgment. Like all of us, Crowley had many flaws and shortcomings. The greatest of those, in my opinion, was his inability to understand that everyone else in the world was not as educated and clever as he. It is clear, even in his earliest works, he often took fiendish delight in terrifying those who were either too lazy, too bigoted, or too slow-witted to understand him." [75]


A complex and often misunderstood figure but no more a Satanist than Billy Graham.
 *sass*
Joined: 11/2/2008
Msg: 175
Satanism
Posted: 1/23/2010 6:45:06 PM
Mad:
Crowley was never a "Satanist" but enjoyed being referred to as one by the ignorant plebs because it added to his general infamy and played well into his complete scorn of traditional religion
Agreed, I think it also gave him a feeling of 'home' since his mother apparently enjoyed calling him 'the beast' and other such references to the spawn of satan.

Frankly I am happy to see that a thread on satanism has survived in this forum! Everytime I had seen someone start one before, they were always peer deleted.

As though discussing the beliefs of others would be inviting the devil himself..
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