|Gaza MassacrePage 2 of 11 (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11)|
|So what about the 6 day war? Was that all about poor little Israel being bullied too? Or was it Israel being greedy anagonists and occupying large tracts of land belonging to Syria, Egypt and Jordan? Sounds more like the little bloke having the house, then wanting the shed, car, wife, kids and pet cat!!|
They were given land yes.. The Palestinians agreed to the giving of that land but the Israelis wanted more and more and more .. The West Bank was not part of the initial agreement .. Nor was Sinai or the Gaza strip ... This i believe is the crux of the problem... Relations were strained enough when the poorest Palestinians had their lands taken from them by their government as consession to greater powers, then Israel decided that wasn't enough and it wanted even more..
The 6 day war was the most dramatic of all wars fought between Israel and the Arab nations, resulting in a depression in the Arab world lasting many years, changing the mentalities and political orientations among the people, as well as resulting in increased tensions between the Arab countries and the Western world. While the actual material and human losses were dramatic enough, Arab weakness in this war compared to Israeli efficiency will probably not be forgot for still many decades to come.
The war left Israel with the largest territorial gains from any of the wars the country had been involved in: Sinai and Gaza Strip were captured from Egypt, East Jerusalem and West Bank from Jordan and Golan Heights from Syria.
For the international society the war resulted in a closure of the Suez Canal for 8 years, resulting in increase of freight prices in international trade.
The war would be followed by the War of Attrition (1968-1970).
Those ^^ are not the actions of an oppressed and bullied nation...
I can understand Palestinians being mildly pissed off at this constant wanting and taking more and more..
Posted: 1/5/2009 10:00:36 AM
the thing about terrorists is they will not fight a convetional war they are cowards who fire and flee usually into schools so that or hospitals so there attackers are unable to retaliate.
How exactly would Hamas fight a conventional war against Israel? They simply don't have the resources. If they had the arsenal at their disposal that Israel does they wouldn't need to adopt the tactics that they have so far.
Whichever way you look at it, this is hardly a fair fight.
It's wrong for Hamas to continue rocket attacks against civilian targets over the border. But, is the current action of Israel actually going to improve stability in the area in the long term or make matters worse by further increasing friction? I certainly can't see it all ending peacefully.
The only solution I can see to the current situation is for the UN to be sent in to effectively monitor a ceasefire. The first step has to be to stop the bloodshed on both sides. Then the process of actually finding a long term solution can begin.
Posted: 1/5/2009 3:44:43 PM
hamas are pretty much like the i.r.a.
That's quite a useful parallel to draw in this situation. Remember all the years that the British government spent saying that would never deal with people who they perceived to be terrorists? However, in the end it wasn't military action that brought an end to the violence it was diplomacy.
The situation between Israel and Palestine is never going to be resolved with a clear victory for either side. The only way a long term peaceful solution will be found will be after compromises are made by both sides with neither having to lose face by actually having to concede defeat.
Posted: 1/6/2009 6:42:49 AM
I re-iterate what I said and will stand by it.....ISRAEL, BOMB THESE FCUKERS UNTIL THEY CANT RESPOND NO MORE
Try saying it a third time. You never know. You might get lucky and find someone gullible enough to bite.
Posted: 1/6/2009 9:55:17 AM
|^^ Yes I agree the state of Israel has a right to exist.. It was agreed to hand over the lands to the Jewish settlers and that would be that.. |
Then the wars started, who was the aggressor and who was the victim is debatable and subject to bias but suffice to say Israel more than doubled it's land mass during the 6 day war .. These lands were not given, they were occupied and forcibly taken from Jordan, Egypt and Syria .. Do they have the right to these lands? Or should they be returned to the original countries they belonged to? (Their occupancies and productiveness are moot points, there are large tracts of Scotland that are completely unused, it does not mean they are available to whomever fancies a bit of it for themselves..)
1967 May: Forces on both Arab and Israeli sides of the borders are mobilized.
June 5: Israel attacks Egypt, Syria and Jordan. Israel achieved great victories immediately, especially on the Egyptian front, where Egyptian air crafts are wiped out after effective bombing of air strips.
June 7: The strategically important Egyptian Sharm el-Sheikh is captured.
— Jordan surrenders to Israel, after having lost East Jerusalem and the West Bank.
June 8: The entire Sinai comes under Israeli control. Later that evening, Israeli fights on the Egyptian front cease.
June 10: Syria surrenders, after seeing Golan Heights come under Israeli control.
These lands were not given to Israel as a multi country political agreement, they were forcibly taken ... If Israel is happy to attack other countries and steal lands from them, then they have no right to squeal when they are attacked... Israel is not protecting the lands it was given, they are protecting the lands they stole during the 6 day war... i.e The Gaza ...
I really do not know who is more in the wrong here, both sides are guilty of gross stupidities ... All I do know is that this current situation has the potential to escalate into to something really bloody scary, for all of us!!
Posted: 1/6/2009 11:06:09 AM
|ZG I've been trying to find a fair and unbiased reportage of the historical problems suffered and caused by Israel.. Would love to be directed towards somewhere I can be properly educated on this ...|
Posted: 1/6/2009 11:48:09 AM
|lots of rockets being fired into israel from gaza, what is israel supposed to do, let it's people die or wait until the extend the range and hit the nuke plant ?|
seems hamas have been using ambulances to move troops, mosques and houses to store ammo and people get upset when they get targeted and blown up...
can't see israel giving up and leaving the area, where would they all goto ?
suspect will see a few more weeks of palestinians being killed whilst the building around the borders are flattened, the french president had it right when he blamed hamas for most of the troubles
given up on religion, bit like willy waving - my god is better than your god pap....
Posted: 1/6/2009 12:19:46 PM
|Dont really intend to get into this debate - I dont know enough about the history of it etc however on a point - a lot of Arab countries still dont recognise Israel. I spent over 10 years in the Middle East and:|
You can't visit Israel from most Arab countries - you have to go into another country and then get a separate flight. You can't telephone Israel from most Arab countries - dialling code is blocked. You can't enter most Arab countries if you have a stamp from Israel in your passport - which is reason why a lot of business men living in the middle east (expats) have 2 passports and finally if you buy a globe or map in most Arab countries you will find Israel marked out with black pen!
Just for info!
Posted: 1/6/2009 12:27:14 PM
|And Bahrain and Saudi - so that would be 4 out of 6 that dont recognise Israel - I would say that was most!|
Posted: 1/6/2009 1:37:19 PM
|Don't you think though that should Hamas and other militant groups did not launch rockets daily into southern Israel and rhetoric of pushing Israel into the sea were not so routine that at some point the Palestinians would have some leverage globally when Israel is not seen as defending itself? A "help us to help you" scenario?|
I feel so badly for Gazans but I wish they would look at Hamas and tell them that they are not helping the cause and lives of the common Palestinian. I agree that some accountability for the sad deaths of innocent Palestinians do lie with the rocket launchers.
Posted: 1/6/2009 4:32:45 PM
|The irony is that this thread has turned into a perfect example of why the problems in Gaza are so difficult to resolve. If people who actually have no real vested interest in the issues can argue so passionately about who is right and who is wrong it's hardly surprising that those who actually have lost family members in this conflict aren't willing to compromise to find a peaceful solution.|
Posted: 1/6/2009 6:37:49 PM
|i've been reading all the posts and thinking, why should we really care about who started it and what one country is doing whilst the other is doing something else. Do we not have enough problems on this island to contend with? Just a historical thought though - substitute Israel with England, and substitute Palestine with Scotland, Wales, Ireland, most of africa, north america, the Indian sub-continent parts of the far east and parts of the middle east. Now most of these countries fought back and took what was rightfully theirs and I don't hear anybody taking sides over this. What if Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland decided to take up arms to become independent nations and take back all that was taken from them by the English? would the same people on this forum say that the Scots et al. are terrorists and not have the right to do so?|
Just food for thought
Posted: 1/7/2009 3:51:53 AM
|Israel have taken a sledgehammer to crack a walnut. The only problem is that they seem to be having difficulty in actually finding the walnut so while they've got the sledgehammer out they may as well tw@t everything else in sight.|
I think that's it in a nutshell.
Posted: 1/7/2009 4:39:28 AM
Terrorists never hide in schools or mosques do they
Yes they do. Which really is the problem. If terrorists hide inside a school and use the children as shields that's wrong. However, bombing the school and killing everyone inside in order to kill the terrorists is also wrong.
These actions simply demonstrate that neither side has any regard for the safety of the civilian population if that gets in the way of their own political agendas. That's why international intervention is urgently needed to put a stop to it.
Posted: 1/7/2009 4:03:06 PM
Also as far as Thandor knows ,no Zionist ,let alone Isralie or indeed Jew has tied bombs to their body , ran into a crowded market place and blown themselves up.
Thandor isn't wrong. However, this in itself tells you something about the nature of the conflict. If you were the commander of an army would you rather sit in an air conditioned bunker directing missiles to their target or spend your time brainwashing some fvckwit into wanting to spread their body parts over a 500 yard radius?
Posted: 1/8/2009 7:45:44 PM
Who do you think is responsible for such atrocities being committed in Gaza
a week or so before the attacks the UN human rights officer in Palestine was very roughly ejected by the Isreali's, the media is banned from gaza and thus we have no idependant eyes viewing whats happening, what is in their and has reported the attrocities are now getting hit themselves along with the civilians.
their is no doubt in any sensible human beings mind what is and has been happening, everything we hear from the Isreali's and the Americans and the media in my country is irrational, unrealistic and i describe as sick.
If what is happening in these vids im posting a link to was happening to me in my country i couldnt sit back and allow nor can i take the agressors in these vids word for anything they have to say.
These vids clearly show whats being done to palestinians being done as what was done to german citizens in the 1930's.
Posted: 1/9/2009 1:40:49 AM
Israeli forces shelled a house in the Gaza Strip which they had moved around 110 Palestinians into 24 hours earlier, the UN quotes witnesses as saying.
The UN Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs (OCHA) called it "one of the gravest incidents" since the beginning of the offensive.
The shelling at Zeitoun, a south-east suburb of Gaza City, on 5 January killed some 30 people, the report said.
Israel said the allegations were being investigated.
"According to several testimonies, on 4 January Israeli foot soldiers evacuated approximately 110 Palestinians into a single-residence house in Zeitoun (half of whom were children) warning them to stay indoors," the OCHA report said.
"Twenty-four hours later, Israeli forces shelled the home repeatedly, killing approximately 30."
The UN said those who survived and were able walked 2km to the main north-south road to be transported to hospital in civilian vehicles.
"Three children, the youngest of whom was five months old, died upon arrival at the hospital," the report said.
An estimated 770 Palestinians and 14 Israelies have died in nearly two weeks of Israel's air and ground offensive against the Palestinian militant group Hamas.
Accidental? Collateral damage? Or purposeful targeting of innocent civilians?
Posted: 1/9/2009 5:08:30 AM
Politicians need to hear from the public that it is in the best interests of Americans, British, Israelis, and Palestinians for Israel to accept a ceasefire, end the blockade, and achieve peace through an end to Israel's 40-year old occupation of the Palestinian Territories.
no isreal need to give palestine their land back that the isreali's/usa took off them by military means and generaly disregarding UN directives the same as the two French resustance's only stopped when no German soldier controlled any of France in 45.
But Isreal wont do that because they have housed thousands of citizens in them military occupied palestinian land and these people would have nowhere to live. these people were told like Jewish persons the world over finanly they had thier own state,thier own automy in control of thier own security and a place for all jewish people(automatic immergration acceptance if your jewish to isreal) and if they suddenly found themselves crammed in like sardines with much less farming land if they were inside thier true borders everything jews the world over were told would be found a lie so everything you see from isreal is an eloborate lie to hide the very lie i just explained and the sad fact is the same genocide just without the gas chambers is happening to palestinians and has happened to lebonese.
Why the USA is involved in this I do not know but i consider a united arab world free of war could sit around and work wonders with oil, the very thing america relies on.
but that divide and conquer stratergy 1 of many possible conspiracies
Posted: 1/9/2009 6:26:58 PM
Israel has never attacked a sovereign state without being provoked.
you dont know about the isreali bombing of the USS liberty do you? the idea was to sink this famous named american ship,blame it on egypt and then america invades and wipes out all of isreals adversaries and then they own the middle east.
you obviously dont know about the mossad hit squads that went around the world in the 70's assisinating any educated,articulate palestinian they could find.
Posted: 1/10/2009 8:40:25 AM
|Going into Birmingham City Centre this morning, we drove past a wall that had been graffitied with the slogan 'Free Gaza' and a picture of a hand holding the Palestinian flag with another holding a gun .. And underneath 'Freedom or death for Palestinians' ...|
Posted: 1/12/2009 7:20:03 AM
|You have to be able to distinguish between the State of Israel and the Jewish people and also between Hamas and the Palestinian people in order to look at this situation objectively. I don't believe for one moment that the average Jewish citizen wants to see Palestinian civilians killed or that the average Palestinian want to see Jewish civilians die.|
Granted the people elected their governments. However, governments don't always act in the best interests of their population once they obtain power and have their own political agendas. If a solution to this problem is left in the hands of Hamas and the state of Israel I can't see there ever being a peaceful solution which is why a UN monitored ceasefire is so desperately needed.
Posted: 1/12/2009 4:41:12 PM
|In this situation to say that one side is completely responsible and the other side totally blameless is simply ludicrous as the actions of both sides can be called into question by anyone with an ounce of objectivity.|
Sadly whilst either side is more focused on apportioning blame for past actions than finding a solution we will never see Peace in the region.
Posted: 1/12/2009 4:52:51 PM
|No side will win this war. the israelis arent prepared for total extermination of every potential threat and with the people of gaza, no matter how many terrorists and extremists you kill, there will always be more to recruit those impressionable teens to thier cause. teens whove only known about israeli violence against them (from thier perspective based on the propoganda and life they live!).|
Once Israely generals are taken to Haag and the generals who ordered bombing Hiroshima and Nagasaki and similar then we can talk a fair play and about the REAL DEMOCRACY.
Not the best example, hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings SAVED lives by ending the war. In similar ways you could by your method argue that Churchill should be locked up for ordering the firebombing of Dresdan. and the same goes for the survivors of the dambusters raid. Although i doubt you would find any support for prosecuting either of them.
Posted: 1/13/2009 4:02:22 PM
No side will win this war.
I agree completely.
However, I doubt that will stop either of them trying to have the last word no matter how boring it is for the rest of us.
Posted: 5/11/2009 10:04:46 AM
|Stockings and 5-inch Heels wrote, "What you are all forgetting is that its the palestinians land ! taken from them by the Zionists Read your history books!!!!!!!! Bush has stood by! the get!!! Obama will sort the evil Israelis"|
No, not at all! You're absolutely WRONG on this point. What history books are you reading -- you may have been the victim of mis-information, or probably dis-information.
The best history book we have of course is the Holy Bible. God Himself gave the land to the Jews. Later, due to their disobedience, the Jews were dispersed and crushed.
After the atrocities of the Holocaust of World War II were revealed, it was our very own British government which ceded the land to the Jewish nation. British Palestine became Israel.
The so-called "Palestinians" had no claim to it. It was the land of the Jews since the first temple was built. Read your Bible and be aware that Satan, demons, and evil men and women throughout time have always been trying to usurp godly authority and implant their own. The Bible clearly describes how Satan has been given control of this Earth for a limited time and in a limited scope and purview. God is, always has been, and will be forever in control. He is just letting Satan have a bit of power to test us and to verify who has true faith in God the Father Almighty, Jesus Christ His only-begotten Son, and the Holy Spirit, the comforter and discerner of all things true and false.
But we must have "eyes to see and ears to hear" through faith which God grants; it is not of ourselves. We cannot believe in the one true God unless He permits us to trust in Him. So keep on praying for faith and peace, and mark the events of the last 5,000 years, check them against the Bible and you will see that God is causing all things to work together for the ultimate fulfillment of His eternal plan. He brought the Jews back to Israel circa 1947-48; the land is the property of God and He gave it to the Jews. Any disputers will have to reconcile their thoughts with God.
The land belongs to the Jews. God will make this clear and make the situation right, and has makred the Jews as His own distinct people, for His own reasons and purposes. Think of all the headlines about Israel and Jerusalem throughout your own lifetime -- you know that God has His almighty hand on His people and will continue to bring His prophecies to pass.
Consider also the miracle of the Jews' returning to their land after WWII - the Bible prophesies about The End Times are clear and are being fulfilled before our very eyes.