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 p3hndrx
Joined: 3/26/2006
Msg: 48
A women giving mixed signals!Page 2 of 6    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6)
i always tell the women that i date from the very beginning that i am the most dense person on the planet... i simply don't get it, and i can be very dumb sometimes.

the fact of the matter is that I may hurt you, but i don't mean to... if there is something that i should understand, please don't assume i will get it the first time. i work hard and i try my best given the circumstances. i'm not perfect, so don't expect me to be.

i don't read minds, so please, if you need or want something, you have to go slow, and explain things very clearly to me otherwise, it will fly over my head....

i can pick up on some clues... body language, tonality, etc... but i don't let them know this. it should be given very explicitly, and straightforward... in plain english with a diagram and instructional video.

and even though i incessantly dictate this disclaimer, it is my duty as a potential mate to be a psychic and to translate their hints into the martian dialect....


and i'm sure i've lost many mates because i really can't read minds..
and i'm sure i will be alone for a long time for that same reason.
 nexthyme
Joined: 9/12/2007
Msg: 53
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A women giving mixed signals!
Posted: 1/8/2009 6:44:47 AM

"I will be ok with my life of just me, going to work, my girlfriends and my kids, I don't think I need a relationship at the moment".

This is an easy one. LOL.... These are people that she trust won't abandon her. It is ridiculous thinking, because one of her kids will be so glad to get away from the insanity that they will build a fort around themself, and probably away from most other people to keep her away.

They have lived this roller coaster, and have had NO MEANS of defense against on again, off again drama momma. However she has herself convinced that kids don't abandon their parents, so there is NO WORRIES.

Work she probably feels she has a grip on, and her friend, YEAH, not much to say about that.

Relationships, she doesn't know how to have one without the chaos and drama, as well as the need to CONTROL how it goes. Probably the biggest frustration for her, is that she can't completely control the other person, so she creates drama so as to make it at least interesting.

LOL, Try and erase the "I hope she gets back in touch with me", part of yourself. It is easy to get sucked back into the tornado, and honestly do you REALLY want to be part of that insanity???

As Ameera has said, she is running from internal demons and doesn't know how to silence this creatures.

I was severally abused, and used MANY distractions to move myself forward, constantly running for what I felt about myself, and the hurt inflicted on me. It took WAY TO MANY YEARS, to get to a point of tolerance, and then oddly about 6 months of really constructive counseling... I am very smart and clever, and could keep away from really dealing with what bothered me... HOWEVER I got into a counselor that didn't ALLOW me to do this, and I had to face what really bothered me head on.

It was like excising a huge tumor with no anesthesia, on my own with a piece of glass... Dramatic I know, but the truth is working through this kind of stuff IS extremely painful, and hard to really sit down and work on. Thus many people spend a life time running from one relationship to the next, hoping they will take away the pain.

A person can NEVER remove all of the things that hurt them, BUT they most certainly can reach a point where they can control the pain and emotions during those times that life triggers these pains... They can realize that today's issues ARE from today, and the other crap is just residual that is a phantom limb pain, and to readjust their thinking.

I have open this up, because as I said, it takes a lot of work, and a willingness to face head on what is ailing the soul. However I know way to many people who would rather stay miserable, then face what happened, because the fact is, they feel the vulnerability all over, and believe they still have no control over it.

Here making you a promise to get help would not help her, simply because she wouldn't be getting help for the right reasons. She has to want to fix herself, and look at the demons she keeps running from.

Move forward good man, and think of this as a good learning experience in to the world of the damaged person, and what horrible things parents and exes can inflict on a person.
 EdwardPartSix
Joined: 4/6/2007
Msg: 55
A women giving mixed signals!
Posted: 1/8/2009 7:06:08 AM
Keep your love locked down, dude.
 cmraseye
Joined: 1/26/2008
Msg: 57
A women giving mixed signals!
Posted: 1/8/2009 7:28:37 AM
sounds to me like symptoms of Borderline Personality Disorder....she's a 'push-pull'.

be afraid....be very afraid....run the other direction. her kids are going to be a mess too! BPD mothers yield VERY screwed up children.
 blonde chickie
Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 59
A women giving mixed signals!
Posted: 1/8/2009 8:20:59 AM
The chick sounds like she bi polar
 cmraseye
Joined: 1/26/2008
Msg: 60
A women giving mixed signals!
Posted: 1/8/2009 10:47:23 AM
Bi-polar, even 'rapid-cycling' bi-polar is not like this. it IS often confused though. Even rapid-cycling bi-polar takes 6-8 weeks to cycle, and it doesn't sound like she's going from manic to depression. push-pull behavior like this is normally tied to Borderline Personality Disorder. Other common symptoms.....does not take responsibility for own mistakes, either blames others, or diverts attention using 'crocodile tears'. Projecting their own behaviors, or dislikes on the other person is also common....example, if she is scared of heights, she will accuse YOU of being afraid of heights, not her. ADHD often accompanies this as well.

god I know WAY too much about this!!! i've met them all!! aaarrggghhhhh!

hey, at LEAST I know what red flags to look out for!
 nexthyme
Joined: 9/12/2007
Msg: 63
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A women giving mixed signals!
Posted: 1/8/2009 3:30:50 PM
Thanks Ameerra, yes, people who have lived dysfunction, and came out a better person on the other side KNOWS... Especially when we have watched other family members self destruct, because of their own special brand of emotional, mental what not.

As well when a person goes to counseling as long as I did, because I was the type during my marriage to OWN all the bad that was going on. I got to go to GROUP therapy... Learning more about dysfunction, and of course got into a really nightmare of a LTR, that took MORE counseling, and finally figuring out why I would make such poor choices.

In the mean time we get to learn about really great terms... I've gone to college and am on a third degree, as well as blending into a Masters that includes psychology... SOOOOO I have gotten a pretty good life course in mental, emotional illness.

OP, I don't mean to get you to think that just because some of us climb out of our OWN self induced cess pool, that the rest can too. As I said, it takes a LOT OF WORK, and a total willingness to admit that there is something wrong, and that no matter how that WRONG happened, it has to be worked through, by the person that has it.

I have seen many women, because I did work with the womans shelter, that won't really dig into the reality of saving them self. Rather they take band aids, and try to make that work for a life time... Needless to say the people around them, that DON'T have that kind of dysfunction get worn thin by the insanity.

The good news, you have learned about some major warning signs, and will not be so willing to try and fix this with someone else...HMMMM then again perhaps you are like me, and many others who have what I call Nighten Gale syndrom, where you feel you have enough knowledge and compassion to help heal the wounded...

Ask me how well that has gone for my life...
 mrwubbee
Joined: 1/1/2009
Msg: 70
A women giving mixed signals!
Posted: 1/9/2009 11:19:31 AM
What ever you do do not treat her like crap. She feeds off of that.

Start asking her if you can bring a friend over when she wants some intimate time.

Just tell her they are there for the future court proceeding and that they are only going to hold the camera.

If she agrees, bring a Midget camera man.
 mrwubbee
Joined: 1/1/2009
Msg: 71
A women giving mixed signals!
Posted: 1/9/2009 11:40:33 AM
Also, Take over a LivePlucked chicken for no reason whatsoever, other than to let it run through the house, while the midget chases it while filming..


That ought to freak her out..
 nexthyme
Joined: 9/12/2007
Msg: 72
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A women giving mixed signals!
Posted: 1/9/2009 12:53:05 PM
Squash it is true, how do you know in the beginning...

However there is a way... She was a total wash of giving, giving giving... This is when you start watching, doesn't mean tuck tail and run, but rather watch for her reasoning for being so overly giving...

Listen to here past stories, her hurts (we all have them, but if they are still in her life as a present hurt. For me, I get along well with my ex, however I know who he is, and he hasn't changed all that much from when we were together.. There is no lament, and only the frustration of his inconsistency in helping raise our son.

Listen to how she feels about her parents... Once again, if their is lament, then she has not dealt with those issues.

Of course you can't blurt out on a first date, have you been in counseling for these issues, but you can ask what she has learned from them... If all you get is pain and hurt, and a tirade of what aweful people they are, there is your clue of major unresolved issues...

Love is ALWAYS a gamble... Everybody puts their best foot forward, OR their worst, so that they can sabotage anything, because they fear anyone getting close to them.

This gal felt so bad about herself, that when you gave love to her, she wondered what was wrong with you... That is tough...

I hope her kids turn out ok as well, but the thing is these unresolved issues can and do pass along to the next generation whether we like it or not. I know, I stayed to long in my marriage to take care of my exes son (my step son) and my oldest tries to save people now too...
 nexthyme
Joined: 9/12/2007
Msg: 74
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A women giving mixed signals!
Posted: 1/9/2009 5:27:38 PM
Thank you very much Squash... Actually I am in school to work with people in a legal advocacy realm... I have no doubt I will have people asking me WHY, and it is good to have gotten enough insight and practice with people loving others, but not knowing how to move forward.

It is normal to be compassionate and want to help another person heal.. WELL for people that have compassion for the happiness of others... YES, the hardest part is knowing that you can't do anything, and no amount of love is going to heal the boo boos of that other persons life...

She is lost, because once again she has created what she fears the most, and that is pushing another person out of her life; however because of the lingering process of "every man leaves me", she also will have resentment to you emotionally, BECAUSE that is the broken part within.

She never got over her ex leaving, never got over her dad leaving, as long as she clings to those things, nobody else will be allowed into her heart. As I said, sounds like the dynamics with her ex, is trying to fix what her dad did... WHICH he left, and she still loves him, same with her ex, just replaying the old story in adult form.

No it is NOT healthy, and she is lamenting someone that didn't love her, aching from that same pain of being rejected by someone she felt should have loved her...

While those who really do want to love her, does NOT provide the attempt to FIX the pain of the rejection from dad...Except for her ex. With her soul closed to people who really are willing to love her, she just can't give back what she is trying to fix.

The only fix is therapy, and learning that the rejection from her dad, was probably NOT really about her, which she probably doesn't believe, most kids don't... He was a butt, and probably didn't know how to really love who he should have. IF she would realize this, and stop trying to get someone who doesn't love her, to LOVE her, she could have a happy ending.

As much as you empathize with this pain, she has to fix that within her heart.

I know what you are saying about "loving your ex". I care about mine too, as he does me... HOWEVER it isn't a romantic love, and it is a care about someone that shares a history with me, and a child, and parenting... We have helped each other out after our divorce, and that has done a lot to keep us as very close friends... ROMANCE, nah it just wasn't there for him, and for me, there was to much spilt blood, so that ember burned out.

You are growing, and moving forward. Hopefully your friend will one day decide to get help, so that she can embrace TRUE happiness. Until then, the cycle for her will continue...
 nexthyme
Joined: 9/12/2007
Msg: 80
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A women giving mixed signals!
Posted: 1/10/2009 4:02:41 PM
Go back to where you realize that this woman has some serious issues, and you want to change them... That isn't bad, however it keeps you connected... Connected to hope that you can heal all the worlds ILLS of this woman... That shug is a WHOLE universe in one person... WOW, to be able to save that person from her cesspool and to give her the opportunity to move forward into real love...

Mean are fixers, and you my dear are just wanting to fix this gal to be that being you met... The truth is that woman is an illusion... She isn't really that person, she is the one you are getting to know that gets on, gets off the merry go round, while you are left sitting to find the golden ring... WHICH isn't there...

Ameera's question is this, why aren't you like the SANE guy, that say whoaaaaa nut case here, can't help, back away slowly and then RUN out the door???

It is nice to have compassion, but then there is losing your own self into the insanity...

Ameera's question is WHY, why would you sell yourself out to that?

Why wouldn't you think, dang, unless this gal got help, and then really knew who she was, which as I said the fun gal is an illusion. You may not like her actual real personality.. She may not be as much of a spit fire in bed, in fact she may find your soft gentleness LIKE she does 50% of the totally boringly easy to run from... Telling you, that you try to hard... Meaning she thinks you are giving way to much JUST to try and keep her... How utterly unflattering that statement is...

You answer that one question, why was I so wanting to hang on to an illussion, because trust me, untreated emotional, or mental problems, and you know she has them spells out a person who you really don't know what your gonna get. Give her enough time, and you may rarely ever see the sex goddess, because that was only the illusion of lure... WOrk to get you... What ever else nice things, worked, but what about the REAL her, which you have not really seen... THat is the question... Are you still hoping who you met was her? Because if you are, then you will find yourself bumbing into these kinds of people more often...

Drama seeker radars, always can locate drama people and vice versa....

I would suggest you allow yourself some time to DEFINE the lady you want, THEN slowly look around. Take the time to meet new people so you can compare... 17 yrs was a LONG divorce, perhaps what you had lost, seemed to be what you were looking for, but the only way you can get it is through an unbalanced person???

JAT
 hurricane hanna
Joined: 9/4/2008
Msg: 82
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A women giving mixed signals!
Posted: 1/10/2009 4:26:42 PM
I think the best thing to do is to stop trying to figure out what to do, and how to get in her head and figure out what she wants, and just give her time. Be nice, be gentle, allow her to do what she wants to do, give her permission to be hesitant, give her permission to be uncertain, give her permission to be confused.

Relax. Just relax. Give her time.

I think she is being totally honest with you, in fact, and that this is very simple. She is afraid. She needs time. She needs to make choices and forget some past sadness. She told you all about that.

Let her do that. Give her time. Be nice to her. Give her some freedom, don't try to control her or boss her, give her room, and let her do what she needs to do.

She has to process this. She obviously is confused. She isn't sure of what she wants to do, so she gets very loving, and then backs away.

Both men and women do this a lot.

And she may run away from you. You can't do anything about that. But she may come back to you and she may be able to work this out.

One thing I learned long ago. You can't make people do anything, no matter how much you hope they would do this or that thing, you just have to open your heart to them and be kind to them, and let them work it out.
 hurricane hanna
Joined: 9/4/2008
Msg: 84
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A women giving mixed signals!
Posted: 1/10/2009 4:55:55 PM
How is she hurting you? It sounds like she is more hurting herself. It is a lonely, scary position she's in.

Maybe you accept her contact because you know that's all she can give right now? Because you have no one else to spend time with?

I am not sure how you are 'putting your head in the fire'.

Unless you feel that she has to do certain things RIGHT NOW, and you can't wait, because you yourself are very lonely or expecting a physical relationship quickly?

Be honest with yourself. What do you want, right now?

Why is accepting what she is able to give, 'putting your head in a fire'? Do you have physical or emotional needs that are painfully unmet that are putting a lot of pressure on your expectations? Do you have a timetable you feel needs to be met?
 hurricane hanna
Joined: 9/4/2008
Msg: 86
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A women giving mixed signals!
Posted: 1/10/2009 8:42:49 PM
How can you ask, how is she is hurting him, Hurricane Hana?

--I think you are making some unfair assumptions about what I mean.

-- I am asking because I want the person to explain to me what specifically is happening that feels hurtful to them. I am not going to assume it is exactly what makes me hurt unless the person tells me that it is; it isn't clear from the posts at all WHAT is hurtful here. Does he have a sense of urgency to working this out? Does he have needs that aren't getting met while he waits for this person? The person says they are 'putting their head in the fire' because the person seems erratic and not able to settle down with the person.

--In general this would be painful only when the person feels they cannot wait for the person, only if they are afraid of being left alone, only if they feel this one person is their only chance for companionship. Only if this one person has become kind of a key to them, a 'must have'.

Do you know how painful withdrawal is from a person you love and care about?

--Do you think that I do not know pain, or losing love, or someone I care about? I know it all too well. Don't assume, please, that because I asked the question, that I do not know pain, or loss. I know those things far, far too well.

It's like having the rug pulled out from under your feet. Suddenly the feelings and relationship you were sure of, you have no idea what it is. The person you've trusted has rejected and abandoned you. It is extremely confusing and painful, and done over time, in the context of a relationship, it is abusive.

--However, in this case, this person has no comittment from this person, and no plan to live together or get married, from this person, and not the slightest indication that the person is capable of doing that.

Accepting what she is "able" to give (she is capable of giving much more) is colluding with her, enabling. Just as bad as picking up a bottle for an alcoholic on the way home 'cause he can't help himself.

--I disagree with you there. Very strongly. I think this is a twisting of interpersonal theories to put pressure on a person to be someone different than what they are, and to do what the one person most desperately needs them to do, and do it quickly.

--"she is capable of giving much more". But who are you to judge her, and what she should be doing with her life? Or to decide 'she is capable of giving much more'? Maybe she is NOT capable, maybe to be close to a person is so painful for her, that she just can't have the same kinds of relationships others have. Maybe her only way to cope is to keep her distance. Not everyone responds to therapy; some people are going to lead limited lives. Doing otherwise may cause them immense pain and suffering.

-- I don't agree that giving a person time and accepting how they behave is 'enabling', not in any way, shape or form.

--In truth, it is not a 'choice' or 'allowing' or 'letting' at all, because no one has any power to 'allow' another adult do anything. Adults do what they wish to do.

--I don't want to 'convince' someone to be with me, or try to argue that it's 'better for them' if they are with me. I want my person to come to me freely, naturally, without debate or convincing, without struggle. If it's right, they'll find their way eventually to my door. I won't have to 'help' them get there. They'll decide that for themselves. If it takes them some time, it takes them some time. I have plenty to do meanwhile :)

--No one is under any compulsion that they MUST have a relationship with a specific person. No matter how much you think it might be 'good' for them, they are just as free to choose a relationship with The Great Guy Joe as The Great Guy Sam.

--Adults have self determination. No matter how fickle, inconsistent, unfair or inconsiderate their choices may seem from our point of view, adults are free to choose what they wish to do. From our point of view they may seem 'bad' or 'mean' or some other fancy term from a self help book...but they really aren't. They are just trying to decide what's best for them, as best they can at the time.

--It is not enabling, it's merely being calm about what is going to happen, because you can't force a person to do something, and you can't change them. Accepting what a person is like, accepting what is going to happen, is not 'enabling'.

--If this woman is fundamentally UNABLE to settle down with this man, accepting that and getting on with his life is more likely to lead to his ultimate happiness and finding a good partner that's compatible with him. Trying to 'retrain' her, as an adult, because it's 'better if she is with him', is unrealistic, manipulative and codependent.

--Enabling means that you help to make it easier for a person to harm themselves.

--It is not at all clear that by not dating this guy, this woman is actually HARMING herself. She may, for example, be able to get along much better with a fellow who has experience as a therapist, or a Buddhist who is very philosophical about things, or a very laid back, undemanding guy who isn't at all bothered by her changeable behavior, and views her absences as a good time to go fly fishing.

--Let me give an example. If I hand someone a full bottle of sleeping pills, I may be 'enabling' a suicide attempt. They may find another way to commit suicide, but I don't want to help them do it. I don't want to make it easier for them to harm themselves. The same goes for the alcoholic. He may find some other way to get that bottle of alcohol, but I won't put it in his hand.

-- If on the other hand, I decide they are 'capable of more' and that they need to be with me, and that I need to prove to them somehow that they need to make that choice, I think that's just plain old not healthy.
 hurricane hanna
Joined: 9/4/2008
Msg: 90
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A women giving mixed signals!
Posted: 1/11/2009 4:01:37 AM
Sorry, cofaga, I don't agree that women are all like the above. I don't agree they all like to have their 'balls busted'. If anyone treated me in any of the ways you describe above, I would run as fast as I could in the other direction, and never have anything to do with that person again. I intensely dislike the assumptions about women the above post represents, and the idea of 'taking control' and not having a relationship based on equality and equal sharing of feelings and making decisions together. All women are most definitely NOT like what you claim they are like.

I'm afraid that in the desire to find relationships, and the haste to explain and justify other's behavior in a less painful way, there is some real 'mythology' going on here. No, women don't 'love that stuff'. Perhaps a few teens or a young person is fascinated with unpredictable behavior and what you describe; to me, it's repellent.

Sorry, all due respect, Ameera, I don't agree with you about these issues. I don't want to convince you to agree with me; I do, however, think it's important to recognize that not everyone thinks about this the way you do, and to respect that. Because I disagree with you doesn't mean I am 'wrong' or 'bad'. It means I have different beliefs. I hope with time you will learn to respect that. I get the feeling right now, that the only way to resolve this is to agree with your outlook. While I respect what you're saying, I don't agree with it, and will explain why below.

No.1, The OP said very clearly that he was hurt by her behavior.

--He said that her not being consistently interested in him, hurt him. I'm trying to get at the underlying assumptions this is based on. What he has said does NOT explain that TO ME. You may be satisfied with the answers, I didn't find what I was looking for in his posts.

--What I feel is this. When we convince ourselves that we MUST HAVE someone who seems so unreachable, so unsatisfying, and so unable to give to us, and so confusingly unable to give us what we want, we are actually doing a very surprising thing.

--We are seeking out, without realizing it, unfullfilling relationships that allow us to play a role of being in a courtship, and avoid intimacy. I don't think people usually realize they are doing this.

--But it is what we do when we are hurt and afraid, and we want to have the feeling of courting someone, without the risk of actual intimacy. Our friends give us a great deal of sympathy, and say, 'You poor dear', as we chase after that person, and it's a role many people get stuck in.

--When a person has been hurt, they VERY often find someone they deep inside realize they can't have. There may be dozens, thousands of people in the world they can be close to, but they AVOID those people, and lock their sights on someone that everyone they know, and even their own heart tells them, they can't have.

--You ARE in control of this, even though it can become a very compelling pattern, and very hard to break out of, and often, even harder to realize it's happening. The chasing a far-away thing you can't have is a very, very comfortable position to be in; and it's far less risky than actually being with someone.

No. 2 The OP said very clearly that he felt sorry for her and wanted to help her.

--Here's what I feel on this subject. That this is the number one reason you should NOT pursue a relationship with that person. Never, ever pursue someone because 'you feel sorry for them and want to help them'. NEVER. Read Melanie Beattie's 'Codependent No More'. That is the worst danger signal you can get at the start of the relationship, that you want to help someone and feel sorry for them. This sort of feeling becomes so twisted and so messed up. It is really just another way of keeping the person at a distance, avoiding intimacy, and making you and her unequal.

--We can and do help each other from within relationships. But it CANNOT be the basis of a relationship. If a person feels a desperate, 'must have' attraction to someone, ,and feels they will collapse if they can't have that person, and that person is spending most of their time avoiding closeness, it is a very, very toxic start to a relationship. VERY toxic.

--'I love to spend time with Joe, I hope he does too, I'll feel sad if he goes away' is not codependency. 'Oh gosh, I can't wait to tell Joe about this event' is not codependency. 'I MUST have this person, she MUST have me in her life, I MUST help her'...that is.

No. 3 Spiritually we all have the ability to do anything, we just have to choose.

--I don't believe this. People are not completely free choice. People have innate limits. People have strong patterns they follow after years and years of habit. Theoretically, it IS possible to change these habits, but look around you, and see how often it happens.

--And some of it is in fact, THEIR choice. I choose not to have a relationship like the above post describes. I choose it's more important to me to study some technology for my job than to stay up all night having a long heart to heart talk with a friend. He may find that really unfair, but I choose to do something he doesn't like, because I know if I don't, I will lose my job.

--Not only that, some of the 'limitations' we see in people are due to things they don't share with us. The lady may be avoiding you because she has other feelings she hasn't talked about. She may dislike certain things about you, or may be in a relationship she can't see how to end, or doesn't WANT to end. She may have children who prefer someone else. People don't tell us everything. They may feel they are being kind, we may just feel confused and bewildered.

--A person with a personality disorder or a mental illness may find himself very limited in what he can and can't do, and how flexible his behavior and reactions are. I don't believe this is all a matter of 'trying harder' and 'wanting to change'. My friend's husband has schizophrenia, and mowing the lawn isn't something he can do. She has described how every time he comes around the yard with the mower, he looks more and more confused and bewildered. The illness affects his ability to keep the mower on a straight line. For 3 hours after he mows the lawn, he has panic attacks and hallucinations (yes he's on meds). This is his limitation. She mows the lawn now.

--An abused person takes flight when someone tries to get close to him. Depending on how severe the abuse scars are, he may never be able to be close to someone else. One of my friends was told every single day of his young life, that he was unwanted and he should die. This was by his mother. His mother also sexually abused him. Today, as an adult, despite therapy, medication and lots of loving friends, he struggles to stay alive. He can tolerate a distant friend, he cannot provide intimacy to anyone. Any time anyone gets close to him, he takes an overdose of sleeping pills. He continues to struggle along in therapy. We give him breathing room. Any evidence that anyone cares about him in a personal way brings a rude rebuff. He is, at this point, doing the best he can to stay away from alcohol and to not self harm. We love him. We accept that there is only so much we can do for him, and that he may never be able to do all the things others do. We encourage him to reach out, but we don't put a lot of pressure on him, or expect impossible things.

--The KIND of relationship he has may have to be very limited. A psychotic person, for example, who's hallucinating, may have a very hard time focusing on a relationship, and simply because of his illness, he may very likely behave like 50 % or so of the severely ill do, and refuse treatment.

-- A person with a personality disorder may have very, very fixed behavior. It may be years of therapy and medication and 'Baby Steps' toward that person becoming able to do the things other people do.

--It isn't entirely a choice; in theory, of course, everything we do is by 'choice' and we can change any time we wish.

--But look around you, and tell me how common that really is. People remain addicted to alcohol and to cigarettes, and to doing self destructive things. Sure, some people break out of it, but not all can. First of all, a person has to WANT to change, very much. Secondly, they have to be capable of change. Third, they have to initiate and stay in some sort of change process. They also have to have some access to a change process.

--But please, people, let us not confuse therapy with a relationship. Relationships are not about giving people therapy or fixing them, or 'making them better'. Intimate healthy relationships are about getting to know someone, and realizing who they are, and making a partnership together.

-- As a person who was involved with a man with a great many serious problems, I know. It was put to me very, very plainly by the therapist we saw. Relationships are about relationships, not therapy. There is a great deal of healing, change and choice that can take place in a person's life, but that is not the main subject of a relationship, and much of it goes on between the therapist and the troubled person, and NOT the person they have the relationship with. And that's as it should be.

-- An adult with very strong patterns in his or her behavior is very unlikely to change. A person who meets an offer of love an intimacy by running away, not knowing how they should respond, changing their mind, being very conflicted about it, is very likely to have that as a lifelong pattern. It's very unlikely to change.

--It may take years of therapy and be a very partial success. The people who can change are lucky, and fortunate. Not everyone can.

--The bottom line for me is that we simply cannot MAKE every relationship work.

--The bottom line for me is also that if the relationship doesn't work out, it doesn't necessarily mean 'that guy really sucks' or 'that lady is crazy, she's nuts'. It's just not a good match.

--And in this case, I am far more worried about the Original Poster, who feels so compelled to pursue this woman who in all ways, seems so completely unsuitable for him.

--I imagine him with someone who's warm and open, steady, reliable, able to confidently share her feelings, and accept his feelings and him just as he is.

--Please, original poster, focus on finding a person that suits you, rather than trying to get an unsuitable person who is unable to give you what you need, to respond.
 nexthyme
Joined: 9/12/2007
Msg: 92
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History
A women giving mixed signals!
Posted: 1/11/2009 11:22:26 AM

Women don't love men whom they can control. Women love emotionally and physically strong men that they can't control. As long as you're unpredictable (not unreliable), unreadable, she will keep wondering how things can be great with you and she will feel attracted to you. Stop acting needy and show her that you don't need her in your life.


Thanks for the generalization of who and what women are about... It would appear that you have a very skewed idea what ALL women are about.

Women are just like men, they want to know that they are wanted, or they will leave. Just as this man probably should do... He stays because he realizes something is NOT RIGHT within her mind.

Some of us women are happy with an equal. someone the mutually wants and loves us, as well want and love them..


Be clear about the things that she's not allowed to do and when she does that (believe me she will, just to test you) don't step back and take the necessary action. You'll see that she'll apologize and feel attracted to you. Let her feel the fear of losing you. Knowing that you'll always be around will make her look for other options, because you're already in her pocket.


I am really not sure what kind of game you are interested in playing with women, BUT in a loving relationship, there is NO TELLING the other person what they can and can't do. BUT rather a conversation of how THEY treat another, and how they expect to be treated.

This doesn't mean this will stop the other person from doing what ever, BUT it does set down expectations as to how each partner has in a relationship.

Playing hard to get, and guess if I love you or not??????

If you have read the OP's posts, you will see he is not a relationship gamer, and he sure as heck doesn't want to start being one now.

Coffaga, some people, and in particular, this woman is NOT the average woman... She is broken, and has issues well beyond what this man has the ability to handle... He wants to help because he believes he's seen her good side.. However her good side was an illusion to get his interests, her real side is this mixed up, lost little girl, that is trying to replay her painful experience of loss off her Daddy, and then got to replay it with her Ex, which she longs to replay the GAME with.

The OP is offering a NORMAL give and take relationship, and is confused as to WHY that isn't enough to help this woman out... The woman needs therapy help, and that is the only way she is going to get herself pulled together... However she isn't interests, or able, OR what ever to go and get the help she needs, BECAUSE, she would have to face her demons.

I have to feel bad that you have such a skewed view of women, and as for the books you have read... YEAH OK, going to guess they were written by women who hate women, or men????

What ever the case, not all women are game players, NOR do we need to have someone tell us how to act, and what we can and can't do... Major kiss of death if a total stranger comes in and says this is the rules... I the man am going to play hard to get, and not interested in you and you are supposed to chase me... Yeah, not happening...

A mature healthy person talks, exchange mutual interest, the has NO INTEREST of who can play hardest to get.
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 93
A women giving mixed signals!
Posted: 1/11/2009 12:02:23 PM

but I do miss that someone to come home to, share intimacy and be close to.

I think sometimes I have been driven to work hard, provide for my family etc......now I do not have anyone depending on me so much I do sometimes feel something is missing in my life!

But YOU DO have someone depending on you...YOU! And your kids, even if they are already grown up and gone, will STILL need a sane Dad(and maybe granddad).

I'm truly sorry to hear that your lady has had painful experiences with love.
But when a "relationship" requires 4 pages of handholding,soul searching and advice( which is all well meant I'm sure), it's DYSFUNCTIONAL to a degree that is going to grind your soul to a very fine powder. Kiss the lady on the forehead, back up, turn around and WALK AWAY.
If it's actually,for some reason only God knows( and He's not sharing the information) this relationship is meant to be, quit breaking YOUR hind end, let the woman step up and deal with her demons on her own. You keep trying to help, and bless you for that, but you're clouding the issue. WALK AWAY. Do not go out running around like a chicken with its' head cut off looking for another "relationship" to replace this one. If someone you truly want to be with crosses your path, that's fine. But don't let your current sensation of an empty life pull you into another relationship "project". Which is EXACTLY what this mess is. Don't worry, there are TONS of good, loveable women who have their issues under control. This one you are seeing now? It sounds like her ISSUES have issues!
Cindy O
 nexthyme
Joined: 9/12/2007
Msg: 96
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A women giving mixed signals!
Posted: 1/11/2009 3:40:12 PM

I can go deeper and bore you all by writing in detail about the social statue changes of women for the past 15 years but i don't think it's necessary. To sum it up, women can stand on their feet now and they're more independent than before. Hundred thousands of successful american women are graduating from colleges every year and most of them are pursuing either a masters or a phd degree. They're smarter, more intelligent, more career oriented and more successful. 20 years ago when guys were bringing the bread to the table, women are sharing the mortgage payments, kids school expenses etc. now. And they're more social, active in the community and networking with other successful professionals every single day. So they DONT NEED men as much as they needed 20 years ago

Coffage, LOL, you changed what you wrote before...

Let me tell you something, women have always been very intelligent, however until the equal opportunity act of 1962 (69?, old brain can't remember which date.) women weren't allowed to go out and get their schooling, except to look for their MRS. Degree.

After this change, women still knowing we face the glass ceiling, are out busting their butts like men who have jobs... Some of us were still raised during the time were women believed their jobs were at home, and it took getting preggers, and left to tend to the baby to believe we could get our crap together.

Then of course there are the gals that had mums that were there when the equal opportunity act was passed, and pushed their own daughters to view life as their oyster too, and not just to be a wife...

Has this phucked up the system for men??? I don't know, men are more willing to leave their kids with out looking back, but perhaps it has always been that way.

It is true, women don't need men in the traditional sense like they used to, because they now have the ability to financial care for them and their kids...

You are correct, really needy men are indeed a turn off to a lot of women, after all if they are needy in that way, who is to say how needy they are going to be in other ways? ONCE AGAIN, women have been experiencing that same rejection too, and for a long time. If we are too needy, to willing to be loving, giving, et al, we get dumped on too.

The op's gal has some major emotional issues when it comes to being in a relationship, ones that aren't normal everyday push pull... Sometimes a person has to just walk away, and realize that it is the right thing to do for all involved.

I am sure you have had situations like that too... Child abuse, (which abandonment is a form of) is a gift that keeps on giving, and it spreads to everyone that person gets around... It is hard to coop with, and to be a partner to that person, IF they haven't gotten help for it, gets harder as the person gets older.

In your repost, yes I agree dating has changed, but not for the worse. Perhaps it was a rather nice deal a long time ago with women having to hope and pray anyone would come along if there happened to be a guy that would date them, but now women are holding their own and being able to chose... Perhaps that is why there are so many "i'm a nice guy thread".
 nexthyme
Joined: 9/12/2007
Msg: 104
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History
A women giving mixed signals!
Posted: 1/12/2009 6:39:29 AM
Coffaga, I don't recommend anyone trying to have a relationship who is that dysfunctional. No matter the tricks to reel her in, squash is NOT being true to himself, and after a while there is no way he is going to come out of this unscathed...

As wonderful as things seemed in the beginning, it as been nothing but an on and off trip for him, which is not healthy or fun. If she were in counseling NOW, that would be one thing, and there would be possible help in creating something worth waiting around for... However that isn't the case, and she is still waiting for her ex to run his own course to come back to her.

This is NOT healthy for the OP, and only will leave him in a state of walking on egg shells... I assure you being single and alone is better than dealing with someone that is on again, off again without warning...

Some people don't mind the drama of craziness, BUT I assure you, there really are more women out there with less emotional baggage, and are worth looking for...
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 106
A women giving mixed signals!
Posted: 1/12/2009 7:52:13 AM

That's why most of the guys out there including me, giving this online dating a chance because we can't find emotionally healthy women outside.

Please don't take this as derogatory, because I found this truth within my OWN experience; You are not going to find what you yourself are not, ANYWHERE.
Unfortunately, we are all products of our life experiences and there is no such thing as complete emotional health. You have to get as healthy as you are capable of, and find your match within the same range of emotional health,and it will be someone whom you do not need to "walk on eggshells" or be figuring out "strategy" all the time. You won't have to go read the latest self help book and go by what it says. Don't misunderstand me, self help books have their place. I've gained a geat deal of guidance from the Bible, books by Suze Orman,Will Rogers, Mark Twain, Baxter Black and Jeff Foxworthy.
Anyway guys, if you "can't find emotionally healthy women outside", what makes you think you'll have any better luck wih online dating?
Cindy O
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 111
A women giving mixed signals!
Posted: 1/12/2009 9:49:22 PM

You can't truly understand if a person is emotionally healthy or not before getting deeper in a relationship.

But you will run into the same situation with online dating. From all I hear, women online are supposedly SUPERB at concealing their issues and keeping their agenda hidden. And most guys think that online dating is the "scratch and dent" room of dating. Just that fact of a women being online makes her suspect. Why the hell the men who believe this continue to participate in online dating sites is a mystery to me. I can only speculate that they don't have a lot of emotional "capital" to spend so they come online thinking it's some kind of bargain bin.
But you have a large social network in a major urban area, yet you and your friends keep encountering women to emotionally unhealthy to be good LTR material?
Why would the simple fact of being "online" make it more likely that women might be more emotionally healthy? Are you sure you aren't looking not for emotional health but emotional perfection? And in my books " long term" relationship means you only can fit one or 2 into your lifetime...3 yrs is not "long term".

Cindy O
 whatsallthis
Joined: 5/1/2008
Msg: 113
A women giving mixed signals!
Posted: 1/13/2009 4:10:41 PM
What? A woman giving mixed signals? No way! Get out of town!
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 116
A women giving mixed signals!
Posted: 1/13/2009 4:47:36 PM

Well, unfortunately there are quite a few women in my age range who apparently almost beg for sex from some of these guys.

Is this information from a reliable source? Sounds to me like a large exaggeration perpetrated by men who want women who say "NO" or "Not yet" to feel like they are out of sync, oldfashioned, behind the times...whatever.
Women begging for sex?
Yeah, I bet.
Cindy O
 4408joseph
Joined: 1/10/2008
Msg: 120
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History
A women giving mixed signals!
Posted: 1/13/2009 8:59:52 PM

A women giving mixed signals!


Last summer a girl nearly killed several men doing this right in the middle of a high speed intersection.

Seems she was a flagger as they were re black topping the road as she was in control of the traffic patterns with the go/stop sign.

Seems as she turned sidways and was swinging here arm repeatedly at an annoying bee, seems the the guy in the front stopped car took this as a signal to proceed.

Unfortunately, it was into the path of a loaded dump truck.

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