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 lateā„¢
Joined: 2/1/2010
Msg: 122
Why is there no faith in bars/clubs?Page 3 of 10    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10)

Why is there no faith in bars/clubs?

Beer goggles..

 RobertKoi
Joined: 11/9/2008
Msg: 124
Why is there no faith in bars/clubs?
Posted: 4/8/2010 6:18:20 AM
I definitely agree that if someone has a character flaw like that, he or she will cheat anywhere, be it bars, work, school, library or in a grocery store. That's understood. However, since a LOT of people go to night clubs, etc., for one and one thing only - to get laid, you'll be exposed to that over, over and over again and for what? To get that drink or two with friends who MIGHT be single and you're not? Obviously they will ask men or women over to the table and there you are - drunk, laughing, flirting and you'll be on thin ice the whole time. You might say "I'd never do that", etc., but hey, never say "never". We ALL know what clubs and bars are about and we ALL know what it's like out there. I just don't see any reason in the world to hang on to that lifestyle in a relationship. Then it's better to be single if it means that much to you. I'm not saying that I'd NEVER consider the idea to go out in a relationship, I'm just saying that I do NOT want that to have any importance whatsoever and definitely not a lifestyle.
 PirateJohn09
Joined: 1/7/2009
Msg: 126
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Why is there no faith in bars/clubs?
Posted: 4/8/2010 7:04:54 AM

I don't have faith in the club scene from the point of view that I struggle personally to apporach women out of context (As in, there's no good reason for me to approach them other than to try and hit on them). It's a confidence thing I'm working on.

What better way to conquer your fear than to face it head on? If you go to clubs and force yourself to start conversations with 100 different women, then by the end your "confidence thing" will be drastically diminished.
 RobertKoi
Joined: 11/9/2008
Msg: 127
Why is there no faith in bars/clubs?
Posted: 4/8/2010 7:32:36 AM
"the subject is not about bars/clubs when you are in a relationship, the subject is about meeting people in a bar/club."
---------------
Well, let's just conclude two things here: a) It's quite obvious that you support the bar/club/pub scene and good luck with that and b) I can talk about whatever I want off/on topic and if you don't like it, that's tough shi.t.

Since being single means that you mainly have yourself to take responsibility for, it's not as "interesting" as being in a relationship which is, or should be, a completely different "reality". However, a lot of people don't care and THAT'S the problem.
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 128
Why is there no faith in bars/clubs?
Posted: 4/8/2010 8:13:11 AM

I definitely agree that if someone has a character flaw like that, he or she will cheat anywhere, be it bars, work, school, library or in a grocery store. That's understood. However, since a LOT of people go to night clubs, etc., for one and one thing only - to get laid, you'll be exposed to that over, over and over again and for what?

Meh. Again if you don't LIKE bars or clubs - that's fine. Some don't. Beyond that I don't care how much you're exposed to it - you won't do it unless you are the type to do it, or you're having problems in a relationship already.

To get that drink or two with friends who MIGHT be single and you're not?

Single or not shouldn't have anything to do with friendship, honestly.

Obviously they will ask men or women over to the table and there you are - drunk, laughing, flirting and you'll be on thin ice the whole time.

Why? If you're not into that - it's not a big deal to you or a threat.

You might say "I'd never do that", etc., but hey, never say "never". We ALL know what clubs and bars are about and we ALL know what it's like out there.

I've worked in them forever, so I ACTUALLY do know what's out there. I still don't think it's about the place, but the person.

I just don't see any reason in the world to hang on to that lifestyle in a relationship.

If someone likes bars or clubs once in a while but has no interest in hooking up with anyone in them, I don't see what that has to do with an SO or spouse. That's not a lifestyle. Sure, there are a few people out there who do nothing but hang out in bars - but they don't tend to be in places where they find relationships with people outside other frequent bar patrons.

Then it's better to be single if it means that much to you.

If what means that much to you - going out for drinks? Again, it's the person in question here, not the place itself.

I'm not saying that I'd NEVER consider the idea to go out in a relationship, I'm just saying that I do NOT want that to have any importance whatsoever and definitely not a lifestyle.

If you don't place any importance on it, then chances are you won't go to many and/or won't meet many people who do either - so it's probably not an issue for you in the first place. But the bottom line is that walking into a bar or club won't change you as a person - if you cave in to what goes on in a place like that, you were already prone to it. It instead became a place to carry out what you were already considering.

If you are a faithful, loyal, happy person in a relationship nothing will change that - not drinking, not bars or clubs and not other people.
 Confident-Realist
Joined: 2/8/2004
Msg: 130
Why is there no faith in bars/clubs?
Posted: 4/8/2010 11:37:03 AM

Because people who frequent bars/clubs on a regular basis are of a lower quality. People who choose to work in such a toxic environment tend to have issues with low self esteem.

I understand the 'frequent' part to SOME extent -- like on an alcoholic level, sure, they're of lower quality, but to define folks having bars or even clubs as their hang-out in their free-time is way too generalizing on an inaccurate scale.

What I don't get is why people think bars or even clubs in general are toxic environments. I think for some it stems from a sour-grapes mentality of what they couldn't get. And of course, for some, just being ultra-uptight.

In that case, you mine as well say that going to and living at a university is a sleaze-bag thing because there are people who just drink & have random sex with anybody. Come on! :) (no pun intended)
 HawkingJr
Joined: 4/16/2007
Msg: 131
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Why is there no faith in bars/clubs?
Posted: 4/8/2010 2:01:20 PM
During two periods of my life, I pretty much lived in night clubs on the weekends (which sometimes started on Tuesdays). During the first period, I was pretty much by myself all the time (although I became associated with other loners that hung out at the same places -- I actually wrote an award-level screenplay that was largely inspired by those experiences). During the second, I was always with my then-girlfriend and her friends/or her friends -- the whole bunch was a few years younger than me and just getting into the club scene. Completely different set of experiences to be sure, but in neither case did anything ever evolve from my interaction with a complete stranger female (of course, in the second period, nothing should have). I once did get a number, but when I called the woman, she yelled at me for waking up her kid with the phone call.

I'm really big on people watching and I will sometimes dance, too, so it's just natural for me to be in clubs anyway. But I've only gone a handful of times in the couple years since my ex broke up with me because I don't really have anyone to go with anymore and I can't really regress to the loner days. Plus, I work all the time (I also worked all the time back then, too! Sleep just seems slightly more important now) and this film business consumes nearly all of my free time these days, especially on the weekends. But anytime somebody from the old gang says, hey we're all meeting at this place, I usually show up and often women who are part of that group will give me some drunken attention, but nothing ever comes of it and as I said, nothing ever happens with complete stranger women. Interestingly, I almost never go to pure bars: I don't drink, so I feel out of place at those -- if you're at a club, at least you can dance, but there's not much more reason to be at a bar other than to drink, and those drinking give you weird looks if you're not drinking, I've learned. So I will on occasion go to pure bars with groups of people I can blend in with, but not by myself.

I don't feel like most of the people I met at clubs were any different from the ones I meet anywhere else. The whole having to yell everything aspect is counterproductive to trying to get a date, but other than that, I see it no better or worse than most other methods of meeting people. I'd have to say church is actually the worst meeting place for me ever. God, those are some judgmental women! And picky as hell. I actually grew up in a family with a father church treasurer and mother Sunday school teacher and for several years as an adult coached a female church-oriented softball team, so I've met many, many, many church women. I loved those girls on the team to death, but me dating any of them seemed absurd (probably from both of our points of view). I'd probably take a bar/club girl over a church girl any day of the week. And as some others pointed out, there are just as many bad people trying to hook up at church and online and in the supermarket as in bars and clubs. The difference is, you probably get to see the person at his/her worse right off the bat at bars and clubs, so if you meet someone at a bar/club who seems respectable, there's a good chance he/she won't get much worse. Definitely can't say that about connecting with someone online.

BTW, two of the women I've dated for one year+ were actually working at their respective clubs I met them at, but I don't normally consider that a normal "bar/club" meeting since that was their job and they got to know me as a regular before deciding to date me -- very different from meeting some random girl at a club and getting her number. The only other woman I've dated for a long time (the previously mentioned ex) I met at work. Meeting people where they work (even if it's not the same place you work at) seems to be the best way to go about dating... if nothing else, at least you know they have a job!
 RobertKoi
Joined: 11/9/2008
Msg: 133
Why is there no faith in bars/clubs?
Posted: 4/9/2010 7:00:54 PM
There's nothing to be open-minded about. We're talking about bars, clubs, drunk, desperate sleazebags and chicks hanging around for one and one thing only... I don't, never have and never will support ANY of that garbage and most certainly not in a relationship. Now, going out SOMETIME is okay be it together or not, but the minute it starts to become a priority, a need, a must for whatever reason, I'd walk away from that relationship before she even knew what happened.

As a matter of fact, I'm currently seeing someone and even though we aren't technically together, I've let her know exactly how I feel about it. She's going out tomorrow (Saturday) - yes, without me. We talked about it and first she didn't share my opinion, but when I asked how she'd feel about a guy being "absorbed" by bars, clubs, etc., she didn't like it. Earlier she told me that she'd met at least three men in places like that and none of those relationships led anywhere apperently, BECAUSE of the fact that they were too "into it" as well as other reasons I guess.

There's no question about it, the more someone exposes him/herself to that "poison" he/she will eventually fu.ck up and the joyride's over. No more excuses, no more of that for some time until a new relationship forms with the same issues unless a lesson was learned after the previous case. It's better to put the cards on the table. I did. Either you give a person a chance or you don't.
 PirateJohn09
Joined: 1/7/2009
Msg: 134
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Why is there no faith in bars/clubs?
Posted: 4/9/2010 8:20:55 PM

There's nothing to be open-minded about. We're talking about bars, clubs, drunk, desperate sleazebags and chicks hanging around for one and one thing only

Because, as we all know, that is a perfectly accurate description of everyone who even so much as steps into a bar. It couldn't possibly be that some perfectly good people might actually go to a nightclub just because they like to dance or anything.
 Maleman999
Joined: 2/14/2010
Msg: 135
Why is there no faith in bars/clubs?
Posted: 4/9/2010 8:25:51 PM
There are bars, and then there are bars. There are many bars I wouldn't even go near or drive by. They are run-down rat holes and the clientele reflects that. But there are some up-scale bars that have a more normal clientele.

The attraction of bars is being in an adult environment with other adults. Everything in society is being kiddy-fied under the banner of "family" friendly. There are very few places that are geared to adults only, where adults can mingle with other adults.

The going to a bar all the time thing is usually a phase the twenty somethings go through. Being a bar hopper gets old after a few years. The initial excitement of being of legal age wears out after a while. When that happens, people are looking for the next high/new experience. For many, they think settling down with someone and breeding will be exciting. For many (about half), that lifestyle doesn't do it anymore. They find it boring and a pain in the butt. So back to the bar they go looking for their lost youth.

I agree with other posters who say meeting people in a bar is not much different than in other social circles or the internet. There are thousands of people on internet dating sites, but how many or what percentage of these people actually hook up and live happily ever after?
 RobertKoi
Joined: 11/9/2008
Msg: 138
Why is there no faith in bars/clubs?
Posted: 4/10/2010 6:08:49 AM
We're all entitled to our opinion and someone who doesn't share mine, that's perfectly fine with me, but whoever you are; I can tell you that you could sit there until Christmas trying to convince ME that bars, clubs, etc., is good for a relationship or a place to find "quality".
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 139
Why is there no faith in bars/clubs?
Posted: 4/10/2010 9:37:57 AM
^^^No one's trying to convince you that bars and clubs are good OR bad, we're simply saying that they are only as good to each individual as their motives and personality are. It's no more than a building by itself. It's a conduit to whoever comes in based on what they do and it's on a case by case basis.

Some people live in clubs and bars daily and have no life. Some go out twice a year and are upstanding citizens with good lives. Some go out specifically to find dates. Some go out with friends and don't ever notice anyone but the bartender and the doorman. There's a lot of grey area in between two extremes - it's not just people who are normal and people who go out. Recongnize and admit that - that's all. You don't know what you don't know.

I personally think my vantage point is pretty objective seeing as I've been DJing (and scouting) clubs and bars (lounges, restaurants, private parties) for lots of years. Literally people from every walk of life you can imagine walk through social establishments. There's no way to pin one label on everyone everywhere. It's simply not possible.
 RobertKoi
Joined: 11/9/2008
Msg: 140
Why is there no faith in bars/clubs?
Posted: 4/10/2010 2:23:14 PM
" There's no way to pin one label on everyone everywhere. It's simply not possible."
-------------------
As in SO many cases in life one can't consider every detail. Many of the arguments that I've seen so far FOR bars/clubs, etc., is like solving a puzzle and even though you've completed 95% of it you still can't see the picture. I can. That's the difference. I don't care about the remaining 5%. The picture is crystal clear to me nevertheless. If somebody wants to keep denying it, fine, it really is, and good luck with that the next to you meet a guy/chick who's totally in for the bar scene.
 TheReason_
Joined: 5/16/2009
Msg: 141
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Why is there no faith in bars/clubs?
Posted: 4/10/2010 6:18:14 PM
A bar or club is a good place to go to get laid, when you are in your 20s


A bar or club is best avoided when you are in your late 30's - 40's, BECAUSE of the people who have been there since their 20's.
 cherryyblossom
Joined: 7/19/2009
Msg: 142
Why is there no faith in bars/clubs?
Posted: 4/13/2010 6:09:13 AM
i wonder if bars and clubs are the only places for people in their early to mid 20s. i have had no luck finding my significant other because i am not the type of person who likes to go to bars and clubs all the time. i am not a party-whore and usually do not go to any events unless there is significance behind it like birthday or graduation.
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 144
Why is there no faith in bars/clubs?
Posted: 4/13/2010 7:19:25 AM
i wonder if bars and clubs are the only places for people in their early to mid 20s.

Of course not - I'm sure they get gas, shop, go to the gym, go to the park/beach, go to the mall, go to concerts, rent videos, go to theaters, eat at restaurants, attend college, go to the bank, get their oil changed, frequent coffee shops, sandwich shops, ice cream parlors and bookstores and a lot of other things just like everyone else.

If you do any of those things, then you're probably crossing paths with them doing the same things. Look around and learn how to make conversation.
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 147
Why is there no faith in bars/clubs?
Posted: 4/22/2010 5:07:30 AM
^^^Agreed. Why can't people just say "it's not my thing" and leave it at that. Why take a step further and insult all establishments and their customers? One has to wonder why that's needed. Just don't go yourself. It's not like the bar or club is the only place to meet women (if that's the only reason why you go, which in itself is kind of flawed), so just go elsewhere and call it a day.

I don't like scrapbooking and basket weaving, so I don't go places where these activities take place. However, I don't put down everyone who does it because I don't like it. Where's the live and let live here? There are people who go to bars and clubs that go to church every Sunday and don't drink. There are people who've never been in a bar or club but are raving alcoholics who keep their booze at home under the sink. One does always not point to the other. Stereotyping only makes the person doing it look stupid, to most of normal society.

Why the bad review? Isn't that taking things too personally?
 trefflehund
Joined: 7/19/2008
Msg: 149
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Why is there no faith in bars/clubs?
Posted: 4/22/2010 12:00:30 PM

Many people ( including myself ) go to these places to dance, listen to music, watch a sporting event, hang out with friends in general etc.

I have found that this is very common. Alot of people I have met in bars go to them as part of their recreational routine--many are married or are in some kind of relationship--to play some pool/darts, whatever, just getting out of the house. I rarely find single women in bars that are looking to make new friends outside of their existing circle of friends.
The places that did have more of a single theme to them, were always a bit sketchy. Usually the places had many more guys than women, and the women know what most of the guys are there for. Just my experience, but when there are a bunch of guys drinking and they significantly outnumber the ladies things don't always turn out so well. But most of the bars I draw this experience from were in military towns or cowtowns (when the rodeos would come to town, it was the worst).
 PirateJohn09
Joined: 1/7/2009
Msg: 151
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Why is there no faith in bars/clubs?
Posted: 4/25/2010 1:56:52 PM

I just don't see any reason in the world to hang on to that lifestyle in a relationship.

Why not? If both people like going to nightclubs together, then there's little reason why they shouldn't continue doing so.

I recall hearing a guy (might even have been in these forums, but I can't remember) talking about a woman he met in a nightclub and they got into a long-term relationship. All throughout the relationship, they went out regularly to nightclubs and such and were both very happy together and had a lot of fun. Ultimately, he proposed and she accepted.

Then, as soon as they got married, she stopped wanting to go to any nightclubs. Her rationale was that they should not be going to nightclubs anymore because, well, they're married now and married couples don't do such things.

Meanwhile, the poor guy is scratching his head wondering what the heck he had just signed up for. His wife had just assumed that because they were married now, his desire to go out and party with her would cease, whereas he was left wondering what happened to the party girl he fell in love with.

I don't recall the epilogue, but the point is that not only can married couples hang onto the nightclub lifestyle, but sometimes the ability to go out and have good-ol' sophomoric fun can really be the glue in a relationship.
 Confident-Realist
Joined: 2/8/2004
Msg: 152
Why is there no faith in bars/clubs?
Posted: 4/26/2010 12:06:53 PM

Bars to me, are a no, no now for any dating.

Avoiding "bars", as if they're all the same, which is ridiculously untrue, is sooo superstitious. Like astrology (superstitious), you end up fulfilling the prophecy yourself if you believe it that way.

Online, bars, outdoor social events, etc. -- you're going to run into the SAME type of stories of someone ending up stalking you, being weird right after meeting them, etc. It's called the singles world.

That's why many uptight people can't stand the heat, so they b!tch and moan about the kitchen. :) Or in other words, that's why so many people demand to meet someone thru their circle of friends instead.

As far as bars go -- there's a huge difference between a redneck bar, an 18+up, all-out boom-boom club, a sports bar like BW3, a "nerd bar", a gay bar, a wine bar, etc etc. You will find VERY different crowds at different types of bars -- those who don't see it that way have some issues within themselves if they can't fathom that!
 RobertKoi
Joined: 11/9/2008
Msg: 153
Why is there no faith in bars/clubs?
Posted: 4/26/2010 3:58:31 PM
It all comes down to the same thing even if there's a difference on the surface of it between one bar and another. There's alcohol and that means that people are proned to get drunk and stupid. A single guy doesn't go there to discuss the weather with drunk and stupid chicks. Nope. He wants to get into their pants. All too often of course the women agree because hey, that's what most of them are there for - oh, many of them will say: "I go there to dance because I love dancing!" Yes, that's why they end up giving their number to a stranger or follow him home to get fu.cked - and yup, it happens all too often even if there's a boyfriend waiting at home.

It's about exposing oneself to that garbage. Of course there are "good" people out there who are truly there for just dancing with their friends, etc. But in the end the inevitable will happen (not in every case but too many nevertheless). It's just a question of time. Having said that, I've decided that I don't want to get involved with that nonsense. If "she" wants to go out sometime that's okay, but I don't want that lifestyle because I know that one day she'll screw up. Again, sometime is okay, e.g. going to a pub together, have something to eat, drink, listen to music, etc. There's no reason to turn into a primitive caveman/woman.
 Confident-Realist
Joined: 2/8/2004
Msg: 154
Why is there no faith in bars/clubs?
Posted: 4/26/2010 5:46:07 PM

It all comes down to the same thing even if there's a difference on the surface of it between one bar and another.

Well, more than the surface (decorations)... the type of crowd changes.

There's alcohol and that means that people are proned to get drunk and stupid.

Umm, bars I go to, there's about 10-12 people who you couldn't tell drank much to every drunk-and-stupid person flopping around -- and I'm being liberal on counting someone being drunk-and-stupid. But no, not counting smiling and giggly as being stupid drunk (those out there who do need to get over their alky mom or dad!) Additionally, there's alcohol at TGI Friday's, many Italian restaurants, etc. Alcohol being served doesn't mean there's a crazy drunk crowd. What you describe is a particular type of bar where you could begin to describe the whole thing like that. There are vastly different places than just 18-and-up clubs!

Yes, that's why they end up giving their number to a stranger or follow him home to get fu.cked - and yup, it happens all too often even if there's a boyfriend waiting at home.

Total, total inaccurate description of virtually all bars, and an exaggeration for those that come close to fitting that mold. Sure, there are some bars out there that seem to fit that stereotype some, where someone is going to have bad experiences and write off every place with a BAR as being like that.
 abelian
Joined: 1/12/2008
Msg: 155
Why is there no faith in bars/clubs?
Posted: 4/26/2010 6:12:13 PM

Well, more than the surface (decorations)... the type of crowd changes.

Regardless of what you want to believe, it takes a certain type of personality to like hanging out in bars. Forr example, you have to not mind spending time in a place with lots of other people with whom you can't have a serious conversation. I don't really like being around lots of people, much less people I don't know, so I'm not likely to find someone in a bar that I'd want to date. I've never had a serious conversation about anything in a bar, so I doubt I'd have much in common with someone who thinks otherwise - like we'd probably have very different ideas about what is idle chit-chat. Bars are not exactly the place to go for intellectual stimulation. If bars work for you, then go to bars. Don't insist that the bars can be sufficiently different to the extent that it's only a matter of finding the ``right bar.''
 Maleman999
Joined: 2/14/2010
Msg: 156
Why is there no faith in bars/clubs?
Posted: 4/26/2010 6:22:15 PM
When I went on a Caribbean cruise a number of years ago, I recall walking around on one one of the islands and seeing a Burger King (don't recall which island). We went in to get a cold drink, and what did I see? They sold beer there. Using the logic of the anti-bar people here, that would mean anyone who goes to Burger King is a pathetic alcoholic who falls over in a drunken stooper and passes out all the time. No wonder the Burger king in the commercials looks like he's out of it and is way too happy.

On a slightly more serious note, I know a number of cases where people met their spouse-to-be in bars. These people aren't drunks, they all have kids now and have been married "forever", have good jobs, and rarely go to out to a drinking establishment. It is possible to go to bars and not be an alcoholic bum.
 RobertKoi
Joined: 11/9/2008
Msg: 157
Why is there no faith in bars/clubs?
Posted: 4/26/2010 6:26:48 PM
"Total, total inaccurate description of virtually all bars, and an exaggeration for those that come close to fitting that mold. Sure, there are some bars out there that seem to fit that stereotype some, where someone is going to have bad experiences and write off every place with a BAR as being like that."
-----------
*Laugh* Oh yeah, and who you are you to call that "total, total inaccurate?" Have you personally made a complete survey of all bars over the world or even in your home town? I don't think so. My comments didn't include every person who enters a bar and I also mentioned that in my post, didn't I?

A lot of women say "I love dancing," "I like to talk with people," etc. However, for a woman, what is there to talk about with a strange, single guy coming over to her table, and no, he's not interested in discussing the weather. The answer is nothing. Knowing that her boyfriend/husband is at home it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever to put herself in that situation. What her single friends are doing is one thing, but what she's doing is another. It's about respect and commonsense. In the beginning, unless she's prone to cheat in the first place, yes she won't initiate anything with a stranger who's only interested in getting into her pants. The question is what happens 5, 10 or more times later... It's when it becomes, or is, a lifestyle that you're asking for trouble.

And again, I'll never accept that kind of stuff in a relationship, not even with somebody I'm seeing regularly. I also have no reason to respect people who choose that lifestyle either, do I? It's simple, I stay away from it and expect the same from a girlfriend or a potential one. I also mentioned that if it happens sometimes it's okay, but it won't become a habit, a lifestyle, as long as I have something to say about it.
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