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Joined: 3/5/2008
Msg: 26
About the Friendship FirstPage 2 of 7    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7)
OK OP, I might be "odd man out" on this but what did her profile say she is looking for? Have you given any thought to the fact that she believes you must be friends first and foremost and see where it goes from there? She might be "testing" you to see if you do in fact respect her wishes to be friends at first and date as friends or if your just going to throw in the towel. To me you can't have one without the other, most great couples I know started out as "friends" because there are and will be times when you will have to rely on that "friendship" to get through the bumps or pitfalls you are surely to encounter as a couple.

One last thought. Have you discussed this with her regarding boubdries etc? Or just in here?
Joined: 4/4/2007
Msg: 27
view profile
About the Friendship First
Posted: 1/20/2009 9:26:08 AM
I don't wanna be mean, but DUDE, let this one go!

It doesn't sound like you guys had dates. The first time you went out was a meet and you paid for coffee. The second time she split the cost. Then you paid for a cover...
This completely sounds like interraction between friends.

I don't get your point I guess. She told you she wanted to be friends because she isn't attracted to you on a romantic level. It seems like it was friends from the start.
Let's say it wasn't though as you claim it was starting off on a romantic foot... her saying friends now means SHE'S JUST NOT THAT INTO YOU!

Lots of people START with being friends for multiple reasons. Maybe they aren't ready for the pressure of dating. Maybe they truly only want to be friends but aren't closed off to the possibility that it could lead to more.

You saying it's a waste of time getting to know someone only to find out they JUST want to be friends is pretty insulting. Friends isn't good enough for you? Things take time to develop and not everyone develops attraction on the same level at the same pace.

Say you meet someone and they too want to start out hot and heavy and you can label it a romantic relationship. What if a few weeks or months down the road you find you can't stand this person because you never bothered to become friends with them? Wouldn't THAT be a waste of time as well?

Keep this attitude and you won't find anyone. No one likes to be pressured.
Joined: 11/8/2007
Msg: 28
view profile
About the Friendship First
Posted: 1/20/2009 9:49:18 AM
I was in a similar position to the OP but an even more confusing one - to me. I think what the OP (and I myself) need to have clarified, was if it was just as friends or if there was truly a romantic interest involved.

I met a man a few months ago who had gone to school with my husband and knew a lot of my old friends. It was like we'd known each other - through them. We went out several times after our first meet. He always paid because he'd never accept my offer but I did leave the tip. We talked several times a week. After the 4th or 5th date, he stated that he was slowly getting back into the dating scene (though they'd been broken up for about a yr) and really did mean the 'friends first' as he stated in his profile (another site). I was confused, as he did initiate kissing at the ends of our dates and was always touching (never inappropriate)-a hand on my back, holding hands, etc.

I asked him to clarify if it was a 'friend only' or a romantic interest with the desire to go slow. There is a difference in my mind. His reply still was not clear.

He asked me out again, and I told him that I'd love to go as friends and I promised to keep my lips to myself. We went out, had a fun time. Again, he would not let me pay, which seemed weird if we were 'just friends'. Then he kisses me good night! I haven't seen him for 2 1/2 wks and our phone conversations are now only weekly, though we do email occasionally. I know he's been busy but I've figured he's lost interest.

Sorry OP...There was a point to this-promise. That point was is that I think some people just don't know what the hell they want, nor do they know how to state it. With some, its obvious. But I have to agree.....this 'friends first' can be very confusing - for both sexes.

If its truly 'friends' then both should pay their way & keep their lips to themselves. If its going out as romantic interests with the idea to take it slow, then that needs to be made clear by both parties.

Joined: 11/12/2008
Msg: 29
About the Friendship First
Posted: 1/20/2009 9:56:04 AM

Seems like you are pretty judgmental on things.

Let me tell you a successful story developing without the concept of "friendship" first.

After splitting up with me, my ex-fiancee dated a lot, getting involved in all kind of odd relationships. She did not regret any of them and I was thinking that she is moving too fast.

At least I need a few weeks to figure out someone, but she needed just a couple of dates, if even that. based on your judgment, she probably would work the curb now.

Guess her story. Some day she meets the guy, after a month they move in together and after four months they got married.

These days they celebrate two years of being together and there is no crack in their relationship. All her old dating days are over for longtime and I did not believe in her dating pattern.

Spare me this theory, because I have proof that actually most of the time it does not work.

If there is no chemistry to start with, you might get to know as much as you want someone, that chemistry ain't gonna show up eventually.

But if there is chemistry, you might allow yourself to go a little slower, but that does not mean that you should be stuck-up and not show any affection to the other one just because you think you are just friends. You might place a boundary around that thing, specifying what you expect and what not and in what timeframe, but don't put the label of friendship on it because it is not. It has no definite label, but only rules.

Otherwise, because of lack of communication, you may wake up that the other one moves on, and you have no idea why he or she is doing it or even when. He or she would tell you some day that they found someone and this is the end of your story...

I am a strong believer in building a relationship from scratches, in being excellent friends with your mate, but I do not believe that something that starts as a friendship without a spark could last long.

As to the other question, the woman I am talking about shines through lack of communications. Seems to me that she is incecure enough to state clearly what are her expectations. I met her offline, so I could not know at the moment I met her and she invited me for coffee what she really wanted.
Joined: 11/8/2007
Msg: 30
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About the Friendship First
Posted: 1/20/2009 10:54:04 AM

If there is no chemistry to start with, you might get to know as much as you want someone, that chemistry ain't gonna show up eventually.

OP, I agree with you. If the chemistry isn't there for me at the beginning, its not going to be there-ever. But not everyone believes as we do-which also adds to the confusion-IMO. Its difficult for me to date a person that does not have the same train of thought as I do on when the chemistry happens.

My sister met her husband and was married 3 months later. They've been together 10 1/2 yrs - so far. It does work quickly for some folks, though they were in their 20's. Seems people our age tend to wait a bit longer to get married.

But if there is chemistry, you might allow yourself to go a little slower, but that does not mean that you should be stuck-up and not show any affection to the other one just because you think you are just friends.

I agree with this too. If there is romantic interest, why would one withhold affection (non sexual) even if one is just trying the friends first approach? I would hate to take the time to get to really know someone, only to have them finally kiss me and be turned off. Most times it ends up feeling like I'm kissing my brother. Sometimes it seems as if getting to know each other as just friends kills off the romantic interest and it ends up being strictly platonic on both ends. IMO two people - who are taking it slow - should still show apparent romantic interest-innocent affection.

I am a strong believer in building a relationship from scratches, in being excellent friends with your mate, but I do not believe that something that starts as a friendship without a spark could last long.

I agree with you here too.....but again, many people have different opinions on that.

Joined: 11/12/2008
Msg: 31
About the Friendship First
Posted: 1/20/2009 11:08:15 AM

It seems that you hit the nail on the head. This is exactly the message I was trying to get across and did not know exactly how. Kudos to you for communication!

I take therapy and I am not ashamed on admitting it because I am not mentally ill. Everything turns about exploring my feelings and it helps me a lot.

If one does not want to show the feelings that he or she might have, my therapist thinks that it is something very wrong with it.

If it looks like a cat and eats mice, why think it is something else?

Instead of putting a label and box around it (friends first) just state what you are looking for, set some boundaries to that relationship that might change with time and just enjoy the ride!

Don't lie to yourself because it is not going to do you any good.
Joined: 10/11/2005
Msg: 32
About the Friendship First
Posted: 1/20/2009 1:49:51 PM
Sorry to hear about your luck, but the scenario you initially described sounds like the female definition of FWB (friends with benefits), i.e. all the fun of a date with zero expectation of ever having a move made on her.

Most heterosexual men, when meeting an unknown attractive woman for the first time, have zero interest in her friendship; they are interesting in picking her up romantically. Once we're taken or otherwise sexually satisfied by other means, then sure a woman's company can be a delightful treat on a purely amicable level; but until that hunger is satisfied it's kind of like a domesticated cat trying to be friends with a bird on an empty stomach. Dicey ground at best...

To quote a great bit by comedian Chris Rock:
"Women LOVE to have platonic friends...
Men don't have platonic friends, we just have women we haven't "bedded" yet...
'As soon as I figure this out, I'm in there...' "

I'm not saying men and women can never be friends without sex being an issue - I have plenty of female friends, and a few that are even genuinely platonic (now). But most of them were girls I've dated, tried or would try to bed six ways from Sunday were they willing to play ball, and I certainly would never pay for their outings with me constantly were it only under the context of friendship - I buy my buds a round of drinks, they buy me one back. 50/50, Even Steven.

If I have to start paying for a female "friend" to hang out with me, I must be REALLY lousy company...
Joined: 11/12/2008
Msg: 33
About the Friendship First
Posted: 1/20/2009 2:14:35 PM

You have spoken like a true man. However, for the sake of the women on this forum, I would claim I did not hear that and did not say anything...

Otherwise, the hell might break loose under the form of some angry postings coming your way.
Joined: 5/2/2006
Msg: 34
About the Friendship First
Posted: 1/20/2009 4:54:01 PM
OP, we're not dense here. I do understand what you're getting at. And as has already been suggested, if you question this woman's intent, then to be absolutely sure I would think it's time to confront her directly. I do hope you'll get back to us after you do and let us know what ensued.

I would suggest a brief coffee meeting at some rather quiet place and be very upfront with this woman. Tell her you've hoped something romantic would develop between the two of you and you wonder as to her intentions. Simply mention that you would prefer to be on the same page as she is. Then smile and wait.

If she says a whole lot of nothing without getting to the point and being direct about her intentions and feelings in regard to you, I think you'll have your answer. On the other hand, perhaps things won't turn out like that and maybe you'll come back to this thread with pleasant news for everyone, but most of all for yourself.

I hope things turn out as you hope they will. I do think it's important to make yourself extremely clear and give her one last opportunity to do the same.

Joined: 6/10/2008
Msg: 35
About the Friendship First
Posted: 1/20/2009 5:35:44 PM
In my opinion there are possible 2 things going on either she is not attracted to you physically but likes you enough to check it out and wants to be in your company. If this is true than it would behoove you and be in your best interest to let her make a move first.
If this is not the case and she is really wanting something beyond a relationship where two people meet are attracted to each other and see if it will work after that. Than she is truly looking for someone she can share laughs , coffee, sadness, dreams, opinions and quirks with for a longtime to come and she wants to find that person without jumping for the physical attraction first.
If you are still with me here.... then in my opinion when you are in discovery of finding someone who will be your real buddy for life you need to take it slow and sometimes jumping into bed too fast gridlocks a relationship.
Joined: 10/11/2005
Msg: 36
About the Friendship First
Posted: 1/20/2009 6:00:59 PM
Haha Fingerpick68 I'm glad I made you chuckle, and don't worry, I won't begrudge you for leaving me high & dry to be devoured solo by the angry lionesses of POF...
Joined: 9/21/2005
Msg: 37
About the Friendship First
Posted: 1/21/2009 10:02:37 AM
I belive you should be a friend first even if it does not mean a love connection you still might have enough to be just that good friends. But one thing I would not do to any of my friends is take advantage of him or her especially when we went out. I might pay one time and whoever might pay the next or we pay our own.

And I dont make false promises, I try to stay true to my words.

Hope this helps
 More sleep would be nice
Joined: 8/17/2008
Msg: 38
About the Friendship First
Posted: 1/21/2009 2:44:02 PM
I think you're looking at this too critically.

For example, all of my past girlfriends started off as friends. Some of them started off as friends for about two weeks before we became intimately involved. Others took a few months. One took a few years.

To me, friendship is just another way of saying, "Whatever happens, happens. There are no expectations."

Another HUGE factor is perception. Having a good dose of perception is an awesome thing. Being able to perceive how your 'friend' responds to you, can give you an idea whether she is explorable further or not.

Personally, I prefer it this way. There are no pre-conceived ideas of anything. It makes everything comfortable for everyone AND there is a lot of freedom to experiment.
Joined: 3/20/2008
Msg: 39
About the Friendship First
Posted: 1/21/2009 4:14:40 PM

How many times did I wrote to some woman declaring in her profile that she is looking for friends and being blown out of sky because actually she is looking for a date?

Unfortunately, too many women loosely throw that term "friends" around as a means to either reject someone alltogether, or to put them on the back burner as a backup male. There are some who want to start as friends and let things slowly develop, but those women are rare. Most of the time, when I've seen women use the term "friends" with men, it either means he's got no chance, or she's keeping him as a backup plan in life. I seem to notice many women try dating the good male friend only when they hit a massive insecurity point of desperation...where they feel they have no options so they run to said male as a last resort.

Also seen plenty of men foolishly play the role of friends with said women hoping it'll become more, when the disappointment hits the day some other guy gets to go from "hi" to "dating". He can't say anything either, because then she can pull out "you and I are just friends". Even my GF was watching "Chasing Amy" with me the other night and saw the character Alyssa as a flake because she kept leading on Holden, wanting a male in her life, but pulling the lesbian thing out as an excuse not to take it further.

I agree with most of the advice on this. Either completely friendzone her and look for someone who wants to date you, or play her little "friends first" game and still look for other women. If she wants to get mad that you're seeing other women, then tell her exclusivity comes with a price. That she can't have her cake and eat it too.

On my drive home I started thinking about what taking slow or be friends first might mean.

I found a cool thing in a blog one day about this. The author really told a good notion on why "Friends First" is not the best way to do "Taking It Slow" in the modern world. He also went into several points of what "Taking It Slow" should mean. I copied and pasted them here:


1. There is no pressure to be making out or having sex at any short time frame. No 3-date rule. Sex and other intimacy will happen when both sides are mentally and emotionally ready
2. The two will go out on DATES and call it "dating". They will say the person they are with is the person they are dating or seeing. There will not be any implications that this person is "just a friend"
3. Both parties are responsible for payment of bills and other expenses. The man is perfectly entitled to be a gentleman and pay it all, but the woman should also be prepared to cough up half at times. Plus it scores points with many men.
4. Certain levels of intimacy are allowed early on if both parties are agreeable to it. Examples: Hugs and kisses on the cheek, cuddling on the couch, sleeping in the same bed and cuddling
5. Romantic gestures should be kept under a certain level of control. So making her a candlelit dinner is fine, but sending her flowers to her work after the second date isn't. Wait on that til things grow
6. There is a certain level of exclusivity in taking it slow. It means you two are taking time to get to know one another and making an investment in one another. It doesn't mean that this person is an "option" and you should be out there looking for other possibilities. HOWEVER...
7. If you happen to meet someone out of the blue you are also interested in, then you must also take it slow with that person...not leap right into a RL while telling the other person LJBF. All you do there is push men and women to think that "taking it slow" means "rejected".
8. The idea of "exciting romance" is nonexistent here if you are taking it slow. This is especially aimed at women who tell a guy she wants to take it slow, but then get quickly bored and lose interest because there's no romance, spontaneity, or excitement. There isn't any because those are things you do that would mean NOT "taking it slow". You can't take things slow and somehow have exciting passionate romance at the same be patient and put away the romance novels.
9. Honesty must be maintained at all times. That means being honest with the other person if you just don't feel the chemistry and want to be friends only as well as honestly on "where things stand" at all times. Usually in taking it slow one person isn't up for it, but likes the other and is willing to be patient. Having where things stand be in an unknown standing will only make problems.
10. Taking things slow does NOT mean this person is an item you can put on or take off the shelf when it suits you. So if you're taking it slow because you want more freedom and space to go out with friends and such, then you're not taking it slow. You're just wanting a temporary mate for when you don't have other options to go out.
11. You are NOT seeing regular FBs or looking for an ONS while "taking it slow". You want to take it slow then that's a price you pay.
12. If things do not work out into a full RL, then not only must both parties know this in honesty...but there are NO GUARANTEES that one or more parties will remain friends or even in contact. Either side is entitled to cut all ties and move on in a polite manner.
Joined: 11/12/2008
Msg: 40
About the Friendship First
Posted: 1/21/2009 5:53:18 PM
Good job, grkboy!

Here is what I was looking for. I should print it out and bring it with me when someone tells me let us be friends first.

I agree 100% with those terms and I dated in past women who kind of adhered to this code...
Joined: 5/17/2006
Msg: 41
About the Friendship First
Posted: 1/22/2009 9:21:17 AM
This is what it is all about to me:

Personal responsibility for your life. You state "she allowed you to pay" - no you paid because you subconsciously thought you'd get something in return. It might be helpful to you if you thought about your perception in this kind of situation. Perception is not reality - perception is an illusion. Yes you had dates with her no question, but maybe your expectations were/are different than hers.

Is it possible that maybe you misinterpreted the situation in hopes of something more? You have the responsibility of seeing the situation as it is not as you'd like it to be.

Finally decide what you want and make a decison - don't blame her for being her. She is who she is and you can't control or change that so accept it and go from there.

There are no rules - at least no rules that every single person in the world follows - you have rules for your behaviour and she has for hers.

Move forward with what you want - if you want to be freinds with her then go ahead but if you want more then look elsewhere. People are just people.

I think you want something a little too much - and yes that is my not so humble opinion since I don't know anything about you but hey this is all in good fun right?

Shakespeare said: "there is no good or bad, thinking makes it so"!
 Orphan girl
Joined: 12/11/2008
Msg: 42
About the Friendship First
Posted: 1/22/2009 9:27:25 AM
Do you think that if we were just a little more aware that would solve a lot of these problems I mean work onthat; thats is all. become more aware~
Joined: 11/12/2008
Msg: 43
About the Friendship First
Posted: 1/22/2009 10:03:36 AM

You might argue as much as you want, there is an etiquette to adhere even when the two of them are friends first. Grkboy came up with something that is very clear and convenient for both parties.

I went with a woman as "friends first" on a "friendly basis" to a dance, last Friday.

Being "friends" with her, what I was supposed to do, starting hitting on the women showing me interest there while being there with my "friend"?

I think that proves the point.
Joined: 1/5/2009
Msg: 44
view profile
About the Friendship First
Posted: 1/22/2009 10:40:45 AM
Honestly Dude walk away If a girl ask's you to be friends say hell no i have enough "girl friends" and move on !
Joined: 3/20/2008
Msg: 45
About the Friendship First
Posted: 1/22/2009 1:19:02 PM

Honestly Dude walk away If a girl ask's you to be friends say hell no i have enough "girl friends" and move on !

That or be an arse and hit on her hottest female friend.
Joined: 12/28/2008
Msg: 46
About the Friendship First
Posted: 1/22/2009 2:34:46 PM

It isn't my habit to rush into anything with anyone. I take my time and get to know the man as a friend first. I have learned that this reveals the true character of a person. I don't believe that things need to become sexually intimate during the dating process and as I'm in it for the ultimate, permanent long term commitment of marriage, the process to getting there is a slow one. There is absolutely no reason to hurry things along at a maddening pace, emotionally or otherwise. In reference to the men I've been involved with in the past, what you're talking about wasn't an issue; in fact, it was they who desired exclusivity quickly, who made themselves available to focus specifically on our slowly developing connection.

As far as men dating one and going slow and then diddling another on the side while he waits for the first one? That's a man who isn't in love, who is shallow, who has no idea about valuing the casual over the permanent, who obviously doesn't desire someone special in his life. He's in it for what he can get as quickly as he can get it.

Women who don't want this in their lives are able to spot this kind of man quickly because he's not really engaged or involved and she can sense it. He'll be sniffing around those greener pastures and this will come across loud and clear. He can't hide it. It is exactly this kind of man that the woman who desires something long term does not need. She has done herself a favor by going slow and holding out for something meaningful with someone who can appreciate that. Next!

Couldn't have said it better myself. Totally agree.
Joined: 3/20/2008
Msg: 47
About the Friendship First
Posted: 1/22/2009 3:51:03 PM

As far as men dating one and going slow and then diddling another on the side while he waits for the first one? That's a man who isn't in love, who is shallow, who has no idea about valuing the casual over the permanent, who obviously doesn't desire someone special in his life. He's in it for what he can get as quickly as he can get it.

And what happens then when the guy who doesn't go looking for other options stays the course with the girl he likes, only to end up rejected when she basically friendzones him for life and/or suddenly jumps into a RL with some other guy who didn't get the "friends first" treatment?

You strike me as someone sensible though...someone who does "friends first" and means it. Someone who also takes that investment in someone and also stays more devoted to getting to know said person rather than the myriad of females who unfortunately use "friends first" as a means to back burner guys while they seek out a bigger better deal.

You can tell us guys how she wasn't right for us then, or how she just wasn't into you, or whatever kind of rhetoric that tells us guys the usual song and dance of "Deal with it, move on, be a man".

The thing is looking for other options...we are being men.

We are being logical. We are seeing that at this early stage of things, there is no real emotional attachment or commitment, so we're free to seek out other possibilities in hope we find a girl who isn't wanting to play friendzone games and instead wants to date and build a RL from it. You know as well as everyone does here that if a woman finds a guy attractive enough to date, then she doesn't need to do "friends first".

I said in my other reply that exclusivity comes with a price. That price is that you call it what it and taking it slow. I've said it before that men don't go out approaching women to make friends. We go out looking for a mate. That's the natural order of things. I've heard women complain to death on why men can't just accept friendship and nothing more. I say it's because most men aren't interested in women unless it's dating/mating/sexual. Deal with it. Accept that 9 out of 10 times when a guy is chatting it up with you and being sociable, somewhere in his mind he's seeing some kind of dating potential or you have a friend he wants to date.

My girlfriend and I took things slow, but we didn't play this "friends first" BS. We dated. We went out on dates. I picked her up, took her places, opened doors, pulled chairs, paid the check, etc. That's how most relationship-minded males want it to be...and pretty with with most men being hit with "friends first" and later it becomes "friendzone", we're not too trusting of the term and know it's just a ruse to reject.

Sorry to be bleak, but if you want to do taking it slow or "friends first" then look again at that blog clipping I posted. Easy and simple guidelines where no one with an adult mind gets hurt, and both sides have the option to be a RL or just friends.
Joined: 11/12/2008
Msg: 48
About the Friendship First
Posted: 1/22/2009 4:12:51 PM

I like the way you think, man.

I remember a story happening to me around my divorce, many years ago. I met at that time someone who wanted to be in the friends area and do all the right things, and bla, bla, bla. Guess what? I went with her to a party (in the friends zone) and she ended up hooking up with the speed of light that night with another dude, present as well at this party.

Spare me with the "friendship first" theory. I just had a therapy session today and my psychologist told me that it is a great BS. Either you are attracted to someone to start with to a certain level (at least borderline), and you want to date that person, going on faster or slower, or you are not, and you kid yourself and the other with the friendship idea.

Now that I think well, I have many female friends, even more than male friends.

If I am to be honest with myself, I would date any of them. What makes me friends with them is the fact that one of us is always unavailable. That kept the friendship alive, otherwise it would not have lasted a few weeks.

I have another story, with my last girfriend. With her I started indeed as a friend, because she was married at the time, and I was divorcing. Then I got a girfriend and she got divorced. Then I split and she had a new boyfriend for a few years.

At the certain moment both of us were available and ended up together. We split later because it was a very remote relationship (I moved from that area before being together) and at the time we could not make it work.

However, during all these 10 years since I know her, none of us had any delusion that we are just friends...
Joined: 7/13/2005
Msg: 49
view profile
About the Friendship First
Posted: 1/22/2009 5:28:58 PM
Sounds to me like neither of you really set clear boundaries. If her profile says friends, rather than dating or long-term, then the answer is simple--she wants to be friends first. If not, then she should of been upfront with you if that's what she wanted in the first place. But at the same time, it was both yours and her responsibility to set the rules and boundaries from the beginning.

Could be that after your first couple of 'dates' she realized that she really wasn't that into you. And this was her way of letting you down 'gently'. But from your previous posts, like when you mentioned her tensing during some of the dancing, seems to me she's not ready for any sort of intimate relationship with you, that in her mind it was more of a 'friends' relationship. Regardless, she should of been honest with you, though it might of stung a bit to hear the truth.

And regarding the issue of being 'friends first'. There absolutely nothing wrong with that, as long as things are clear from the beginning. Some of the best relationships start out as friends, believe me. One of my first serious boyfriends who I was with for nearly 4 years started out as a childhood friend. Even though things didn't work out (because he moved and long distance just wasn't working), we still remain the best of friends. And as a result, we are much closer than we were before. So 'friends first' definitely isn't a bad thing. Because when times get tough in any relationship, it is the friendship that will see you through.

But the only way you are really going to know the truth is by taking the direct approach--ask her. Tell her you want her to be honest with you, no matter what the reason is. However, this could be opening up another can of worms, because it may not have anything to do with you. Could be something to do with her, her past, who knows. That is the risk we take though when it comes to love--we risk getting hurt.

My last piece of advice? Just chalk this up as a learning experience and move on.

Joined: 11/12/2008
Msg: 50
About the Friendship First
Posted: 1/22/2009 5:38:15 PM
she wanted to date you. but as soon as you saw you in person, she changed. she is just trying to get free dinners. she is shallow. move on and leave her alone
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