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 Ezzee
Joined: 7/26/2004
Msg: 2
Now Ive heard it all....Page 2 of 2    (1, 2)
You know, if contraceptive is part of the solution because it decreases the birth rate, imagine the effect we could have if we also increased the death rate at the same time.

If we decrease the birth rate and increase the death rate, everyone could be as rich as Bill Gates, at least those who were left.
 The Artful Codger
Joined: 2/29/2008
Msg: 4
Now I've heard it all....
Posted: 1/26/2009 5:45:38 PM

I believe this must be the dumbest generation ever!
Agreed.

"Here is the actual text from the stimulus package's summary:

'State Option to Cover Family Planning Services.

Under current law, the Secretary has the authority under section 1115 of the Social Security Act to grant waivers to states to allow them to cover family planning services and supplies to low-income women who are not otherwise eligible for Medicaid. The bill would give states the option to provide such coverage without obtaining a waiver. States could continue to use the existing waiver authority if they preferred.'

Like other portions of the stimulus bill, this measure would not only aid states, but also provide preventative, cost-saving health care to help low-income women support their families and keep working. It focuses on access to recommended services and contraception to prevent unplanned pregnancies and promote maternal and infant health -- not abortion. An upcoming Congressional Budget Office report estimates that this change would save $200 million over five years and $700 million over 10.

No one would be forcing states to pay for family planning services. States can now cover low-income women if they get a state waiver, but approval can take a long time. Despite these bureaucratic hassles, 27 states have already "obtained federal approval to extend Medicaid eligibility for family planning services to individuals who would otherwise not be eligible." This bill would simply allow states to skip the administrative delays."

http://www.alternet.org/bloggers/terkel/122756/


*Bolding added


Here is a summary of the bill -
http://energycommerce.house.gov/Press_111/20090122/billsummary.pdf

 Twilightslove
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 5
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Now Ive heard it all....
Posted: 1/26/2009 5:58:12 PM
While visiting a friend in San Antonio I met a 19 year old girl who had two children by two fathers and was pregnant again with twins. She had an 8th grade education, was not married, no job, and was living with my friend who felt sorry for her babies. The girl then introduced me to a girl downstairs who had two children, no job, not sure of her education, but she was excited about being pregnant again as well. The best thing that could have been done and should have been done for these young mothers and their offspring would have been to have implanted a 5 year birth control in their arms shortly after the first birth. What type of life do you think these babies are going to have and don't fool yourself into believing that these young moms want to get rid of the babies because they do not? They are not pushing for any child support and in fact the fathers seem to be non working types.
 Twilightslove
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 7
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Posted: 1/26/2009 6:06:55 PM
Actually the mother of both of the fathers has the girls convinced that they do not need child support or to be married. The state should have stepped in and said no more. They are living on the taxpayers dime.
 Twilightslove
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 9
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Posted: 1/26/2009 6:16:04 PM
I'm not positive what needs to be done. I do know that the state of Texas needs to do something though as these girls made me feel like they thought this was normal. Apparently the mother of the two fathers has five children by five men and no child support. She proudly gloats that she has never worked. Made me absolutely sick to think people live this way.
 EvilLolli
Joined: 12/7/2008
Msg: 12
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Posted: 1/26/2009 6:34:48 PM
[provide preventative, cost-saving health care to help low-income women support their families and keep working. It focuses on access to recommended services and contraception to prevent unplanned pregnancies and promote maternal and infant health -- not abortion.]

Part of preventative health care is EDUCATION. This used to be something that was more readily available years ago. Education on how to prevent pregnancy as well as the spread of STD's. Since the number of young un-wed mothers w/ multiple children by multiple fathers has increased, do you really think there is enough education out there to prevent this? Also, how many of these young mothers and fathers do you think are being safe and not passing diseases as well? They are engaging in unprotected sex frequently enough to have multiple births, what do you think the chances of STD's are? Even curable STD's cost to be cured.

As for the 5 yr implant mentioned, its been off the market in the US since 2002 because of the problems it caused.

Many areas have also lost their Planned Parenthood resources due to lack of funding. There are many areas in the US that don't have this service.

If this would help increase the availability of birth and disease control methods available to people w/ lower incomes, there would be less burden on the welfare and state aid systems to provide assistance. Less demand on these systems would then lead to a leveling of taxes needed from the workers who provide the tax base. This in turn would lead to more spendable income per household.

Its a small step on the way to solution for a much bigger problem, but its a step.
 sydneyleigh
Joined: 3/21/2008
Msg: 21
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Posted: 1/27/2009 12:01:02 PM

Saying every girl should have access to birth control regardless of whatever is rediculous. It's sex ,not food,water,heat or a place to live. I'm deeply apoligize for all of the poor underpriveledge women out there who simply cannot afford to not have sex and afford a condom.


Since the vast majority of "boys" out there that I have met have thrown FITS about wearing a condom (no glove, no love... sorry) it only makes sense to provide the women (who will bear the burden of child bearing and raising the majority of the time) with affordable or free birth control. Then they can take responsibility for their own reproduction.

A 3 pack of condoms may cost $4 - but they are not nearly as effective as hormonal/chemical birth control. Just look at the cost (particularly without insurance) for any sort of bc - its outragous! However, if a woman really wants to prevent pregnancy, its an absolute must.

Decreases the costs to the healthcare system (birthin' babies is expensive) and the court system (child support dockets decrease, as do the local jails for all those "deadbeats" who can't pay - who decided THAT was a way to solve that problem)

Personally, I had that problem fixed years ago, after I HAD an unplanned pregnancy (but an absolutely wonderful child who is now an almost grown adult) - but not all women can afford to do THAT either - even when they want to.

sydneyleigh
 sydneyleigh
Joined: 3/21/2008
Msg: 24
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Posted: 1/27/2009 2:59:18 PM
Hun, you wear the condoms... we have other methods of birth control.

Just because a woman has them, doesn't mean she can convince the man to wear them... and I've had a few not survive the deed - I'm so glad I'm not relying on one to not get pregnant.

and yes, there is a penalty - its called motherhood.
 sydneyleigh
Joined: 3/21/2008
Msg: 25
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Posted: 1/27/2009 3:32:35 PM

just quit indiscriminate fu ckking and this goes away.SELF CONTROL folks..try it sometime...can work wonders with lots of vices!!!


Not all unplanned pregnancies are due to "indiscriminate fvcking".
ALL unplanned pregnancies are due to unused, unavailable or ineffective birth control.
(two of those three we can actually do something about)

which one REALLY is an easier problem to solve? cuz if you think you can get the population to stop having sex, when that hasn't been accomplished for 1000's of years...?

lemme know how that works out for ya.

syd
 d0rene
Joined: 6/7/2008
Msg: 26
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Posted: 1/27/2009 6:42:41 PM
The pill was created by a Catholic doctor to increase fertility. For a lot of women it does - take it for a few months and then go off of it or forget to take it correctly and guess what happens?

I, personally, believe birth control should be a covered part of regular medical expenses - not a part of the stimulus plan. However I think paying to control the population makes more sense than paying for a water park in Miami?? and a mob museum?

I can see rebuilding roads or investing in trains and rail infrastructure... rebuilding some of the bridges that have fallen into disrepair to stop another large scale accident like they had in Minnesota, but why would anyone want to build a museum dedicated to crime. Or for that matter a water park a few miles from the ocean? What's next? A museum to venerate the creators of this financial melt down?
 sydneyleigh
Joined: 3/21/2008
Msg: 28
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Posted: 1/27/2009 7:07:45 PM

The pill was created by a Catholic doctor to increase fertility. For a lot of women it does - take it for a few months and then go off of it or forget to take it correctly and guess what happens?


HUH?

Colton stated the intended uses of his invention (Enovid) was for hormone replacement therapy and menstrual disorders... he bemoaned the fact that it was used as a contraceptive (because it tricks the body into thinking its already pregnant, and thus you do not ovulate). But he did not create Enovid as a drug to increase fertility. That makes absolutely no scientific sense.

If you go off the pill, or forget to take it...DUH - you ovulate! (and thus have a chance of getting pregnant) It is in fact one of the most effective forms of birth control! Those that have trouble with it is because of their own individual hormonal balances counteracting with the hormones in the pill.

The chemist invented a drug used for birth control, it was besides the point that he was catholic... would your statement have made any more sense if referring to Djerassi, who was NOT catholic, and yet is given similar credit for oral contraceptive discoveries?
 EvilLolli
Joined: 12/7/2008
Msg: 29
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Posted: 1/27/2009 7:44:11 PM
"ALL unplanned pregnancies are due to unused, unavailable or ineffective birth control."

Actually there are also the unplanned pregnancies that are caused by a lack of education in factors that can interfere w/ the effectiveness of BC as well. Do you know how many things can interfere w/ the pills efectiveness even if it is taken religiously? Or how many factors can ruin a condoms effectiveness even if it is applied properly and used every time?

The best method is still abstinence. After that a consistant "layered" approach of using multiple, compatible BC methods is most effective. Again part of the education that is not readily available from most schools, to/from parents, or low-income clinics.

If the availablity and education on how to properly use BC was more widely available, the rate of unplanned, low income or irresponsible pregnancies would decrease this. Several studies in the 90's proved this.
 d0rene
Joined: 6/7/2008
Msg: 30
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Now Ive heard it all....
Posted: 1/27/2009 8:23:11 PM
I can't find the information now, but I heard a long time ago that a Catholic fertility doctor was looking for a way to regulate fertility cycles so that a married couple who were having problems conceiving would be able to do so. In the process he discovered how hormones regulated a cycle and ultimately how they could depress fertility. I also heard that while he did so as a faithful Catholic he was ultimately excommunicated because of the way the discovery was used.

Edited to add: Hhhmmm, the story Iremember was from about 20 years ago. The only thing I can find is that maybe it referred to John Rock, a faithful Catholic who was involved in the clinical trials of oral contraceptives.
from http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/pill/peopleevents/p_rock.html

In 1931 Rock put his reputation on the line by signing a petition with 15 other prominent Boston physicians urging the repeal of the Massachusetts law prohibiting the sale of contraceptives. Risking excommunication, he was the only Catholic doctor to make the stand. After the Catholic Church approved of the "rhythm method" in 1936, Rock was the first doctor to open a rhythm clinic in Boston. There he taught Catholic women how to use the only birth control method permitted by their Church.

Confident that the Church would eventually approve the use of the Pill, Rock was crushed when the Pope officially banned the Pill in the encyclical Humanae Vitae (On Human Life). In his later years, having lost faith in the Church, the man who once attended mass daily stopped going to church altogether. When Rock died in New Hampshire at age 94 , on December 4, 1984, he was still bitterly disappointed by the Church's refusal to change its position on the Pill.


Sometimes I guess you just have to check the facts that you think you know?!
 sydneyleigh
Joined: 3/21/2008
Msg: 31
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Posted: 1/27/2009 9:35:13 PM
Unplanned pregnancy is not the singularly held bastion of lazy or stupid people.
However, if birth control (including any bc that has been proven effective ie. pills, iud, depo-provera shots) is widely and inexpensively available, it will have a positive effect on the economy.

Look at the economic growth since the 1960's - after women in the US (in general) got control over whether they risked pregnancy every time they had sex.

Again, preaching abstinence (ie. your theory of self-control) DOES NOT WORK.
People have sex.
The key is to do what we can, as a society, to minimize the side effects of this (STDs & pregnancy)

sydney

edit:
I was raised Catholic.
Do you know what we call the folks who practice the rhythm method?

Parents.

(and yeah... the Church has always been very right field on this issue.... they gotta "recruit" somehow, I guess, since we don't evangelize.)
 EvilLolli
Joined: 12/7/2008
Msg: 33
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Posted: 1/28/2009 1:55:07 AM
^^^Which is what I have been saying all along. I agree w/ you square seven. W/o education and availablity, we are facing more than unwed mothers. The EDUCATION in sex ed is sorely missing. Then again education in this nation seems to be poorly missing.
Couldn't be the two are related? Hmmm thats another thread.
 GeneralizingNow
Joined: 10/10/2007
Msg: 34
Now Ive heard it all....
Posted: 1/28/2009 10:06:37 AM

"I'm concerned about the size of the package," he said after the meeting.

Aren't we all, senator, aren't we all?!
 d0rene
Joined: 6/7/2008
Msg: 37
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Posted: 2/7/2009 8:18:48 PM

Of course contraception should be made available. If families are losing jobs and have difficulty providing for the children they have, then using contraception is plain common sense. It's called being responsible.


No, silly, you are supposed to go in the other room, sit down and pray about it, and then NOT have sex. That will lead to a well adjusted, mentally balanced society.


NOT!!
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