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 AUTHOR
 My I
Joined: 1/23/2007
Msg: 273
Paying child support for kids that are not yoursPage 7 of 30    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30)
As for this law, you are the poster child (and with your attitude and insulting manner in which you write I don't think that is far for the truth) for the social consequences created as a result of this law. Are all single mothers going to use this law? I know my ex didn't, but then again she's a grown up and has that one great quality called character.


I wonder what message izzy is going to give her sons in respects to dating single moms when they get to that age?

For some poeple's reading pleasure:
http://www.thatsfit.ca/2010/12/22/narcissist-mother/?icid=main%7Ccanada-toshiba%7Cdl3%7Csec1_lnk3%7C191605
 My I
Joined: 1/23/2007
Msg: 277
Paying child support for kids that are not yours
Posted: 12/24/2010 6:46:33 AM

I'm guessing "the best interests of the child" just went out the window with that?

The best interests of the child went out the window as soon as mom decided two men should be financially supporting her child(ren) and she works part time. Izzy makes it seem as if she is the one supporting the five children with a part time job but, if anyone else has noticed, she's not given one bit of (financial) credit to the man who is living with her.

Jenn, I work in a hospital where we ship old, used hospital equipment to Cuba - that's kind of indicative of the health care you'll recieve down there. But then, as many other radicals do, you'll return to canada for free health care when your health begins to fail.

God bless some of these self righteous single canadian moms - especially the ones who work part time and pledge to move to other countries to tan.
 My I
Joined: 1/23/2007
Msg: 287
Paying child support for kids that are not yours
Posted: 12/26/2010 7:42:05 AM

Child Support is a temporary thing

Check the supreme court ruling about a mother who, seven years after divorce, sought to have the child support payments converted to alimony payments - and won!

Her argument was that she could not return to work because she is still distraught and depressed over the break up of her marriage that happened 7 years ago. The courts in canada, once again, have shown an adaptation that divorced moms do not require to "get over it". She never has to be accountable for herself, for the rest of her life.

Be it a bio-dad or a non-bio-dad, women can treat them like cash cows for life - there is no such thing as "temporary" when dealing with moms in canadian family courts - stop pretending there is.

What a hell of a precedent the courts have set - izzy, you may be able to quit your part time job soon enough. You're canadian, you're a mom. you've secured an income (non-bio-dad).......
 normaldude
Joined: 3/8/2006
Msg: 291
view profile
History
Paying child support for kids that are not yours
Posted: 12/26/2010 12:43:10 PM
after reading this topic and seeing how easy it is to go after men for cash do the ladies looking for a guy not see the connection between some mens behaviour and this?
The guy wants an arms length relationship and always keeps an eye for a quick escape. Lack of committment? Quick dates? Not sleeping over or moving in? Not wanting to know or avoiding women with kids?
A friend rented the downstairs of his house to a lady with one child. As time went on the guy sometimes watched the kid and hung out with her. He has a condo in florida and let them use it now and then. She wanted to date him but he remained distant.
He got taken to court after she moved out and she said he had become a parent to her kid. He had to get a lawyer and fight her in court to stop the attempt at support.
It cost him $20000.00 bucks cash to settle on advice of his lawyer since he said she had a shot of winning....... The courts favor women. Period.
 Tealwood
Joined: 12/16/2008
Msg: 297
Paying child support for kids that are not yours
Posted: 12/27/2010 8:05:29 AM

I don't know one person who has gone after a non-bio parent for child support personally, and have only been able to find a dozen reports of it happening anywhere in Canada. There were also extenuating circumstances in most of those situations... like an agreement where they both decided that the woman would take the hit to her career to care for subsequent mutual children. Please, tell us who these "far too many woman" are and where they live.


I know a few who have or are paying but that would not make it in my mind factual as normal. But when one looks at the case law from the various Provinces one see's pages of case's where in court child support was required of step parents.
and there is no extenuating circumstances required of subsequent mutual children.


¶39...The court must determine the nature of the relationship by looking at a number of factors, among which is intention. Intention will not only be expressed formally. The court must also infer intention from actions, and take into consideration that even expressed intentions may sometimes change. The actual fact of forming a new family is a key factor in drawing an inference that the step-parent treats the child as a member of his or her family, i.e., a child of the marriage. The relevant factors in defining the parental relationship include, but are not limited to, whether the child participates in the extended family in the same way as would a biological child; whether the person provides financially for the child (depending on ability to pay); whether the person disciplines the child as a parent; whether the person represents to the child, the family, the world, either explicitly or implicitly, that he or she is responsible as a parent to the child; the nature or existence of the child’s relationship with the absent biological parent.


Case law...effectively you marry a woman who has children or simply establish a co-family home even outside of marriage and the child by living there a parental relationship is established as defined as a child of the union or marriage...and a responsibility to financially provide for that child or children is potentially required. yet like all other discussions of financial responsibility there is never one on the financial responsibility of the custodial parent to actually work or work full time enabling those to collect cs and collect Canadian Financial supplement financial aid that was established to assist the poor individuals who were unable to make ends meet as opposed to what is now a lifestyle choice by some?

But notatowngirl...please demonstrate where in fact in the case law an individual was not found liable to paying cs...for step children after having married or living together for a period of 5yrs or more...I would love to see the reasoning from the judge as to why they made a judgement that is completely opposite so many other judgments...found in established Canadian case law.

As opposed to simplistic suggestion of not knowing yourself anyone who has done that?


They came into being because the government was having to step in to make sure that the kids didn't starve to death and so that their mother didn't have to work 3 jobs and die early to support the children they BOTH created.


They both created and they both have to have or need homes where the children can go and find reasonable living accommodations...yet the premise of child support only addresses the custodial home? And if the mother is unable to work and provide for the child or children then have the father take care of them or find housing where someone is financially capable. After-all if the mother is not capable of working and providing the necessities for the children the best interest of the children is to get them somewhere where they will find the food and support where they can succeed and not follow in the same footsteps of being brought up by someone who is incapable of self supporting themselves.

But then again there will always be those who are willing to stand and suggest that woman need handouts and extra support. After all it has only been 30+years that more woman finish high school than men...go to university in greater numbers than men...yet still do not pursue degrees and follow in occupations that actually pay...so they still stand on the premise that they require subsidization...for their own choices.


Honestly, I think this is one of those "friend of a friend" horror stories people seem to pull out of their arses in an attempt to make their opinion seem more relevant.


http://www.canlii.org/

Each Province has a list of established case laws....just do a little research before simple opinions are suggested as fact. i will however suggest dating or not moving in with a woman is not going to get you into the potential liability of having to pay....but give it time as i am sure there will be at one point a woman who will try to have that established as woman often do not seem feel they have to financially liable themselves in the same manner they require of the men...case in point...a father needs to me financially responsible..no arguement...and that requires full time employment...but few woman also make that same requirement of the woman or say little when some single custodial mother is complaining about not enough cs while working part time or playing at being a student for her 2nd 3rd degree?
 Tealwood
Joined: 12/16/2008
Msg: 298
Paying child support for kids that are not yours
Posted: 12/27/2010 8:19:45 AM
Nobody has a problem with forcing those men to pay for their children. But we have a problem with forcing men who are not the fathers to pay for somebody else's children.


Rock...I do not have a problem with the premise of a step parent being financially responsible for step children....but then that financial responsibility or consideration needs to be established right from day one in the marriage.

How many times do you hear woman suggesting that the new husband is not responsible! The father is responsible and the new husbands income is not to be considered as a factor in the care and financial requirements of the child or children...until that marriages fails...and like other issues...they change their tune!!

Make the step parent liable from day 1...make the combined income a factor in equalizing income and i have no problem with the premise of child support for non biological children...but instead woman want only what best suits them...they want no reflection on the income of the new husband until the marriage fails...then they want it as a consideration....

They lack moral character....I have a great suggestion...shared joint parenting and no child support...and if you are unable to raise and parent your child...find someone who can...and take the children away from those deadbeats who choose not to work or do what is required.

But I have a rather poor attitude as i have always paid my own way in life...never held my hand out expecting that someone or society was there owing me something in life.

Self respect..self dependency and a dislike in having to rely on others to provide for what i feel one should do for themself. As a custodial parent...I really need to learn that sense of entitlement that someone else should be contributing to my household expenses.
 mrcs84
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 299
view profile
History
Paying child support for kids that are not yours
Posted: 12/27/2010 8:56:45 AM

You don't need a lawyer for family court. Since she made the claim, the onus was on her to prove that he had stepped into a fatherly role. Unless she had evidence, the case would have been thrown out. Contrary to some misogynist beliefs, made up to prop up their hatred, courts still do require proof.


Yeah, that's definitely not true at all, ESPECIALLY if you're a man. Why don't you go and sit in a family court for a few hours? It doesn't matter the race/sex of the judge, they all tend to hate men, and the the best way for a man to have any degree of a fighting chance is to bring a lawyer with him.
 My I
Joined: 1/23/2007
Msg: 302
Paying child support for kids that are not yours
Posted: 12/27/2010 12:04:52 PM
I would make sure my child knew that that woman felt she needed to drive daddy into the ground so he had no way out...

This is one thing women like to ignore. Not only speaking in terms of child support but in many other aspects of life. Some women are confrontational and dogmatic on issues that do not require them to be. With that said, these type of very angry women are much like the angry feminists playing to the media and creating theatrics for dramatic flair to suggest that women are the most oppressed gender/species on earth.

In response to this kind of behaviour men do walk out on women; men do vanish into thin air; men do avoid discussions with women because they expect the drama and the theatrics. In these forums I don't think some women realise how their behaviour lacks credibility when they speak down about their ex as if he's the worse jackass you could ever meet - I know several great guys who were accused of being such jerks yet, they are in NEW and WONDERFUL relationships now.... and that's what p!sses off most moms. They don't want the world to see that he has gotten on with his life while she lives in misery and hate..... misery loves company

Unfortunately, family court is simply a stage show for the sake of pride - it has very little to do with the best interest fo the children; it rarely does.

It's not that every woman is like that but there is certainly a lot of them.

Speaking of women's craziness:
http://www.windsorstar.com/Spanish+woman+fakes+kidnapping+test+husband+police/4029742/story.html
 Capitano_Blaugh
Joined: 3/18/2008
Msg: 303
Paying child support for kids that are not yours
Posted: 12/27/2010 12:09:33 PM

Honestly, I think this is one of those "friend of a friend" horror stories people seem to pull out of their arses in an attempt to make their opinion seem more relevant.




.... so, I was imagining that I was required to pay CS for my ex's kid despite there being a CS order in place, and bio-dad was paying already?

... sheesh, and here I thought it was just a bad dream....

....though cost me a bit of real fvcking money, though.

You and lizzzzardbreath.... just 'cause you stand around, fingers in ears, yapping, "LALALALLLAAAA-can't heeeeeaaar youuuuuu!" doesn't mean this doesn't exist.

 Capitano_Blaugh
Joined: 3/18/2008
Msg: 305
Paying child support for kids that are not yours
Posted: 12/27/2010 2:13:52 PM

I didn't say it didn't exist... you're too blinded by your own experiences to even read/comprehend clearly.


...hmmmmmm....

.... clearly one of us needs to go back comprehension school, given the statement I was commenting on:


Honestly, I think this is one of those "friend of a friend" horror stories people seem to pull out of their arses


You DID make this statement, didn't you?

And, I'm blinded because I'm not a "friend of a friend" but one who experienced this first hand?

... sheesh.

Besides that, have you actually read lizzardbreath's posts? I may be less than respectful for using that label for her, but she's hardly a paragon of maturity herself and her attitude really STINKS for the most part....

 My I
Joined: 1/23/2007
Msg: 308
Paying child support for kids that are not yours
Posted: 12/27/2010 3:00:11 PM
But he's paying because of the deadbeat bio father is he not? The laws came about because the bio father wasn't paying/making enough to support the kids... right?

^^^ That translates into a very simple criteria:
If a woman gets pregnant by a skank of a man and/or if the mother prefers not to "hunt down" the bio-father, all men should not consider her as long term relationship material.

It's kind of silly to suggest a bio-dad can run away from responsibility and the non-bio -dad is on the hook. It's also pathetic that a woman can decide which man (ignore bio-dad vs hunt down non-bio-dad) she wants to pursue for support.

I wouldn't trust that kind of woman in a relationship and especially with any asset of mine. I wouldn't even want her as a friend - it appears a woman with such a mindset would be an irresponsible mooch.
 mrcs84
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 310
view profile
History
Paying child support for kids that are not yours
Posted: 12/27/2010 3:16:20 PM

But he's paying because of the deadbeat bio father is he not? The laws came about because the bio father wasn't paying/making enough to support the kids... right?


So the govt should be giving the bio-father flack instead of some new guy.

The laws came about because the gay couples wanted equal rights over adopted/surrogate/what-have-you children. Then it just degenerated into the mess we have now.


So if they're going to point their hysterical fingers at someone else, they should point it in the right direction.

Point at the mothers for abusing the system, siring the child of a deadbeat dad, and looking for a hand-out instead of standing on her own two feet.
Point at the deadbeat dad because....he's a deadbeat dad. (fun fact, only 11% of NC men fit the description of "deadbeat")
Point at the system for continually letting this kind of crap happen
Point at the men who are stupid enough to date single mothers


So, what overwhelming evidence do you (someone without bio children) have that judges hate men?

Well seeing how you dodged the request about providing some case law evidence of your own. I guess I can dodge this question of yours.
 barefootkitten
Joined: 12/17/2009
Msg: 312
Paying child support for kids that are not yours
Posted: 12/27/2010 3:44:55 PM

post where I said all. So far in here though besides one other woman, I have seen you all say its ok to take a non bio male for support... nothing wrong with it apparently.
I don't believe in going after non-bio parents for cs, but I was also one of those in the mandatory dna thread that is AGAINST it.
 ohwhynot46
Joined: 6/28/2009
Msg: 317
view profile
History
Paying child support for kids that are not yours
Posted: 12/28/2010 5:31:10 PM
I am one of those who have stated that it does not seem right to be forced to pay for children not your own, even if I can imagine circumstances that would deem it
appropriate to do so. Having said that, though, I checked out your link, Tealwood, and the cases that came up as a result of searching "support for non biological children" were clearly those that were decided on an individual basis; cases such as one where the step dad was the only father known to the children for the majority of their lives, and he willingly accepted them, supported them & was included in decisions made about them. Cases where a man continued to have visitation and continues to, in his own words, "contribute to decisions" made about their discipline, schooling, activities, etc. Clearly, these men WERE acting as parents, and, despite an initial discomfort with the notion, did little to further the argument that the law is unjust when it comes to men. From this evidence alone, the notion of enforcing the continuance of supporting a child whom one chose to support, seems to be applied to those who chose it from the get go, hardly the poor losers who got sucked in to a relationship for the sole reason that cs would be collected from two parties.

But, Tealwood, I agree with you:


Self respect..self dependency and a dislike in having to rely on others to provide for what i feel one should do for themself. As a custodial parent...I really need to learn that sense of entitlement that someone else should be contributing to my household expenses.


to an extent. Having freely chosen to make a home with children, for children, why would one's obligation to those children, whether biological or not, really end with the dissolution of a relationship with the other parent alone? For decent people, the life they can provide for their children brings them pride, satisfaction & a sense of accomplishment. The reality is that for the majority of cps, the contribution of the ncp doesn't begin to meet one half of the expenses directly related to those children. Putting numbers down on paper isn't as difficult as some may suggest. I for one, know damn well that an equal percentage of my income is reserved for one particular expense of only one of my three children, while my ex pays that same percentage to supposedly cover ALL of the expenses for ALL of the children. Is that somehow more fair? I don't see anyone arguing in my behalf.

The world is full of injustice, but the bottom is line is that if we simply do the right thing, this isn't much of an issue, unless, of course, we choose to wallow in bitterness & self pity.
 Tealwood
Joined: 12/16/2008
Msg: 318
Paying child support for kids that are not yours
Posted: 12/29/2010 2:21:48 PM
LOL...used to have a partner who lived in Walden NY and I lived in Warwick which are both close to your home town?


The reality is that for the majority of cps, the contribution of the ncp doesn't begin to meet one half of the expenses directly related to those children. Putting numbers down on paper isn't as difficult as some may suggest. I for one, know damn well that an equal percentage of my income is reserved for one particular expense of only one of my three children, while my ex pays that same percentage to supposedly cover ALL of the expenses for ALL of the children. Is that somehow more fair? I don't see anyone arguing in my behalf.


The contribution of the non custodial parent is supposed to cover what? 1/2 is a load of crap if you are talking housing heating and and food!

What is the difference in your housing cost with 2 children...to the ncp who has their children every other weekend?

I also had a child whose expense for their extracurricular activity was significantly higher than the other...but then it also earned a scholarship which was not the reason that i did it...the time spent in the car and attending these activities is something that one could never be equate into dollars as it was quality time and building memories something that my ex will never be able to accomplish as she did not see it as being important.

But your profile says you are in finance. i am curious as to the financial cost that a child represents to the custodial parent that is also not required of an involved non custodial parent?....Food is different> housing is not!

I left the cs money in my ex's hands so she could also be there to offer an alternative to the children if they decided they did not agree with my or our house rules or expectations. In that respect we both had had housing costs in having 3 bedrooms..both homes had to be heated and the taxes paid for?

But in Canada we have section #7 where additional expenses outside of day to day expenses are required which covers things like daycare/after school care...for those who actually work...so Lizzie types would not get that part...just the spousal support..
 Capitano_Blaugh
Joined: 3/18/2008
Msg: 323
Paying child support for kids that are not yours
Posted: 12/30/2010 12:46:09 PM

Funny though, if I decided to work part time my income would be inputed at a higher rate but there is no such requirement for the custodial mother if she voluntarily chooses to work part time.


Ah, stop the frickin' whinin'....

... it's ALL in the best interests of the child as lizzzzzzardbreath, notatowny and most other women see it.

Women NEVER, do not, EVER benefit from the money they collect from exes or government subsidies.

It's a magical accounting system that is only understood if one has a vagina...

... though some persons who possess vaginas prefer to use the more mundane accounting systems which rely on personal responsibility and self-reliance.

 SpecificTruths
Joined: 9/19/2009
Msg: 324
Paying child support for kids that are not yours
Posted: 12/30/2010 1:19:25 PM

Women NEVER, do not, EVER benefit from the money they collect from exes or government subsidies.

It's a magical accounting system that is only understood if one has a vagina...

When my little bro turned 18, my mom cried for days.
Then she sold her car and got a cheaper one.
After that, I got weekly calls at college (which I was paying 100% for and was flat ass broke) from her complaining about money.
She took my dad to court, again, but the judge ruled in favor of him since the kids were grown. He did supply health insurance to us as long as we were in college and under 23 years of age, though.

Funny, that money was supposed to be "for the kids" only but it sure as shyt went for more than just that. Mom's a good woman, a very good woman. But that stretch shook my confidence in her somewhat. She worked part time for years, and watched TV most days while I was as at school, then worked nights while we were home.

I love ya, mom, but that was BS and now you're broke as a joke because of it.

So, I caution the part time mommas to consider what happens at retirement age. I'll have to, along with my brother, support my mom when she can't work. If you don't want to put your own kids through it, GO TO WORK AND SAVE YOUR EARNINGS.
 Tealwood
Joined: 12/16/2008
Msg: 330
Paying child support for kids that are not yours
Posted: 1/1/2011 6:49:05 AM

I did work the system both ways...and lemme ask you...Who is the chump for workng 80 hour weeks to make ends meet for the LACK of child support? Who else really gives a shiat about my kid other than me?....YOU...Tealwood?...their Father?.. or in my step boy's case their Mother?


Well then we are in agreement that you worked the system....as opposed to actually working to the best of your capabilities?

But then that is something that supports the premise why some guys are reluctant to date single mothers.

If feel sympathy for your children in respect to the role models...or lack of role models who have self respect and personal incentive to stand on their own two feet as opposed to working the system and taking advantage of the social programs that are there to assist and support those who need the help and are not capable of being self reliant.
 Capitano_Blaugh
Joined: 3/18/2008
Msg: 331
Paying child support for kids that are not yours
Posted: 1/1/2011 6:51:57 PM

But then that is something that supports the premise why some guys are reluctant to date single mothers.


I think our darling Lizzie is the poster-chick for why men need to be very careful about living with single mothers.

As I've said, I think there is no problem with dating single mothers, since using female parlance, dating=having sex with, I just think that guys need to just say, "No" to living with single mothers. Eventually, it's very likely choosing to live with her is going to cost more than the guy could have ever anticipated.

 Irish Eyez
Joined: 12/30/2008
Msg: 332
Paying child support for kids that are not yours
Posted: 1/1/2011 7:24:52 PM

I just think that guys need to just say, "No" to living with single mothers.


You are speaking of single mums' with small children, right? What of single mums' whose children have grown-up and flown the coup?
 Capitano_Blaugh
Joined: 3/18/2008
Msg: 333
Paying child support for kids that are not yours
Posted: 1/2/2011 10:22:21 AM

You are speaking of single mums' with small children, right? What of single mums' whose children have grown-up and flown the coup?


Yeah, though for me, personally, I'd choose not to live with any woman again kids or not.

I really believe many terrific relationships have been messed up by a couple living together. The only advantage is the extra income but I make pretty good money, so I just don't see that as incentive enough when weighed against all the less than positive stuff....

.... especially the list of shit that I'd be required to do, having to go shop for new furniture every six months, having to watch the Real Housewives of _______ County rather than the hockey game, and the inevitable favourite pastime of, "Hooooonney? We need to talk."....

 My I
Joined: 1/23/2007
Msg: 334
Paying child support for kids that are not yours
Posted: 1/2/2011 12:27:14 PM

.... especially the list of shit that I'd be required to do, having to go shop for new furniture every six months, having to watch the Real Housewives of _______ County rather than the hockey game, and the inevitable favourite pastime of, "Hooooonney? We need to talk."....

If it wasn't for my appetite to burry my morning wood into her and have spontaneous sex over the kitchen sink (and table) I'd almost subscribe to your reasoning.
 Capitano_Blaugh
Joined: 3/18/2008
Msg: 335
Paying child support for kids that are not yours
Posted: 1/2/2011 2:53:16 PM

If it wasn't for my appetite to burry my morning wood into her and have spontaneous sex over the kitchen sink (and table) I'd almost subscribe to your reasoning.


Yeah-but, that sorta thing only lasts for about the first six months then the headaches start, she starts wearing the flannel armour with the granny underwear and she's tired all the time....

 ohwhynot46
Joined: 6/28/2009
Msg: 337
view profile
History
Paying child support for kids that are not yours
Posted: 1/5/2011 7:25:41 PM
I am quite enjoying this!

izzbeth......
 My I
Joined: 1/23/2007
Msg: 338
Paying child support for kids that are not yours
Posted: 1/5/2011 8:15:35 PM
Izzy, you don't have a S.O. - you have a FWB. He is a part of the children's life for lesser periods of time per month than a responsible non-custodial parent in a divorce. I think it's easy to see through your smoke and mirrors:

Thought I mentioned he works primarily in the US?...No common law..He "visits" 8 or 10 days a month...

Previously you claim:

If you want to feel sorry for anyone, feel sorry for my SO....but he works in the US for 18 days a month

So you subsidise your income by running a daycare for cash..... big deal. He's not your S.O., he's your S.I. (significant income)... you don't strike me as a person who would put out for a man without strings attached
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