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 pantsonfire
Joined: 7/19/2006
Msg: 29
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Should pubs here in the UK be allowed to sell Marijuana ?Page 3 of 9    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9)
^^ Ketamine is regularly used in general medicine so I think that's why the law is a little screwed up in regards to the classifications...

I'd be more upset that a nice young couple were peddling drugs from their premises.. ( I don't give a flying fruitbat that alcohol is also a drug, it's currently legal and marijuana isn't so let's leave that little gem shall we) ..

If those 20 'regulars' gave up their drug habit and instead spent it on a couple of pub lunches then the pub wouldn't have gone bust would it?
 pantsonfire
Joined: 7/19/2006
Msg: 36
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Should pubs here in the UK be allowed to sell Marijuana ?
Posted: 1/30/2009 2:50:15 PM
Beachbum ...Msg 34

No 1... I'm causing no one hardship, do not try laying other people's problems at my door just because I choose not to partake in an illegal pastime which you see as being the solution to the country's current financial crisis..

No 2... If it were my children who were struggling through my losing my business I would hope to God I wouldn't need someone trying to legalise drugs for me to peddle to keep me going..


No 3.. These people are either the lovely young couple who have lost a business and would have all their financial ills rectified by selling marijuana, or... They are drug peddlers who are complicit in the deaths of thousands of people every year through selling addictive drugs (alcohol and tobacco) .. One or the other...

No 4.. I am not arguing with you, I am informing you of my opinion.. My views are mine, they may be ill informed in your opinion but they are not in mine... We obviously have different views on marijuana but do not call my intellect into question.. It borders upon a personal attack.. I do not lack a desire to be informed, I lack a desire to see marijuana legalised and sold in public houses...

As for the couple, by all means give me their number, I'll forward them a copy of this thread, I'm sure they'd find your comment regarding their drug peddling very amusing...
 Warrencraig
Joined: 8/30/2008
Msg: 49
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Should pubs here in the UK be allowed to sell Marijuana ?
Posted: 1/30/2009 4:01:15 PM
from a crime perspective legallising weed would have little effect. its only a small proportion of the drugs market.

Legallising ALL drugs would never work long term, BUT it may work as a short time measure to bankrupt/force out of business the dealers but long term theyd just move onto the next easily exploitable crime.

leglising weed is not a good idea. Like mostconsumed products in society, even weed in small quantitys is considered relatively safe. Moderate to heavy users ARE at risk of developing severe anxiety, paranoia and eventually severe psychosis.

Nobody really knows if this is reversible or not. Some people expereince the anxiety/paranoia first time they use it. The effects in moderate users taking the drug over short terms are known that the effects do fade when the person stops using the weed. Its known that long term moderate use can lead to the symptoms lasting for years afterwards

LONGTERM there is NO information as studys havent been in existance that long to determine if permenant damage is caused in older people. Younger people the evidence suggests that any such drugs can be harmful to the developing brain.

I have seen at the mental health charity i volunteer with, probably half the clients use weed on average 2-4 spliffs (or more) a day and they all suffered with anxiety and paranoia that stopped when they cut the weed right down or stopped altogether. There are a number of people who feel unable to cope with life without weed and do NOT feel "normal" without it!!!

The links between all drugs and mental health are known. People using any drug (inc alcohol) to escape from reality/shit/unable to relax any other way, are setting them self up for trouble.

It does have its place in pain management but the doses are low and the benefits and quality of life outwiegh the potential negative effects.

Oh not forgetting that weed is delivered with tobacco and all the risks that includes.
 Warrencraig
Joined: 8/30/2008
Msg: 52
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Should pubs here in the UK be allowed to sell Marijuana ?
Posted: 1/30/2009 4:59:00 PM
It's not addictive at all. There are no cravings or possiblity of overdose.


You should be a bit more accurate when you make a sweeping statement.

Weed may not be chemically addictive but it can be psychologically addictive just like any substance that gives a real or percieved benefit. The greater the percieved benefit, the greater the likelihood people will become psychologically addicted.

Just like alcohol, harder drugs, smoking etc explain why my taxes should be used to pay for treatment, care, policing and dealing with the effects of excessive use of weed???

If i had my way alcohol and smoking would be illegal too. Alcohol has been legal in this country for centurys (if not longer) and in moderate quantities causes no harm hence why im not so niaive to beleive it could be easily banned completely.

Unfortunately as is proven on the streets of this country (and many across the world), humans cannot be trusted to consume alcohol responsibly with the effects felt across both medical, employment and police budgets. Restrictions and possibly outlawing its consumption may be the only short term solution until we sort out societys greater social and behavioural issues that rely at its core.

Weed although it does not produce such negative effects in the short term, the effects of heavy long term use are still not fully understood. You will find in most psychiatric hospitals/psychiatric mental health teams (in community), patients suffering severe affects from long term use. It is not known if the drugs merely accelerated such conditions developing or if its a widespread effect. Inpatient psychiatric treatment is very expensive as are drugs used to treat anxiety/paranoia and psychosis. I dont see why my taxes should be paying for totally avoidable treatments like drug issues.
 seabass15
Joined: 3/2/2008
Msg: 55
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Should pubs here in the UK be allowed to sell Marijuana ?
Posted: 1/30/2009 7:52:01 PM
I went to a Bike rally in Belguim. and met up with others there from the UK.
They said they wanted to go to a place in Holland called Terneuzen. hope the spelling is right. to this Cafe.
I did not think anything about drugs, but thats what happened. I was gob smacked by the number of people buying drugs, smokes. they bought what they wanted, I didn't.
Alcohol is bad enough. why drugs????????? I just dont understand.
the logic evades me.
 Lord_liquid
Joined: 8/22/2007
Msg: 58
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Should pubs here in the UK be allowed to sell Marijuana ?
Posted: 1/30/2009 11:15:16 PM

In that pub that closed there were around 25 'locals' who came in at leat once a day. Of those 20 smoked weed and most smoked a £10 bag or teenth each day. Thats £200 additional revenue each day or £1,400 per week. More than survival turnover, thats well into good profit for a small pub. Right now the crooks get that money not good decent people like my friends.


Thats assuming ceterus paribus (all other things staying the same). Assuming that these regular smokers all bought their weed exclusively from this pub and the price was the same as buying from these gangs. If other pubs had the same ability to sell weed, there is no guarantee "locals" would stay at this one that is now closed.

I'm pretty sure the reason Amsterdam has coffee shops is to avoid weed being mixed with alcohol??? From a quick Google search I found this;
[url]http://www.amsterdam.info/coffeeshops/[/url]
Which amongst other things states;

The coffeeshops can legally store up to 500 g of marijuana and can sell up to 5 grams to adults over 18.
Half the amount your locals smoke daily (already halving your projected income for the pub)

General rules that coffeeshops require to abide:
* Minimum age 18 years, identification duty
* No alcohol, no hard drugs
* No selling goods
* No mobile phones (in some)
* Agression is not allowed
* No hanging around

Although it does also say a select few have alcohol licences as well (I'm confused by that too!)
 pantsonfire
Joined: 7/19/2006
Msg: 59
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Should pubs here in the UK be allowed to sell Marijuana ?
Posted: 1/30/2009 11:44:56 PM
Why are people who are anti (illegal) drugs always on their high horses? Why are they always taking the moral high ground? Why are they always the blinkered, blinded ones in denial?

Why is it never the drug users who might actually be a tiny little bit pig headed over their recreational drug of choice?


I am no moralistic, holier than thou stick in the mud.. I just choose to believe that the law should be upheld, I choose to believe that whilst alcohol and tobacco may be equally as damaging, while they are legal they should enjoy privileges that marijuana does not... I have never smoked.... I have never binge drunk... I control my intake of a legal substance ... I have the occasional bottle of wine or glass of whisky..

You don't hear me screaming personal insults about (illegal) drug users ... I don't make personal assumptions about their levels of education or their lifestyle choices...

It always seems to be those who are pro marijuana who become belligerent and argumentative ... Always the users who start screaming about double standards and blinkered attitudes...

Is the short fuse a result of the usage of a non damaging drug perchance?

Nooo of course not, couldn't be could it?
 Cargy.
Joined: 12/26/2008
Msg: 70
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Should pubs here in the UK be allowed to sell Marijuana ?
Posted: 1/31/2009 6:59:16 AM

I have been around enough people who smoke that rubbish and they are all paranoid freaks.


That has been my experience too.

I dunno if the marijuana attracts those prone to this, or if it's the marijuana that causes the behaviour, but either way we have quite enough social problems to be going on with that are brought about by the legal use of alcohol (and to a lesser extent, tobacco), without adding to them further.

Besides, it seems to me that those who are habitual users (if not addicts) of this substance seem to have no problem obtaining it despite it's current illegality, so I don't see the problem!
 Warrencraig
Joined: 8/30/2008
Msg: 90
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Should pubs here in the UK be allowed to sell Marijuana ?
Posted: 1/31/2009 5:58:03 PM
This thread is unbelievable and has just turned into total farce!!!

I notice all you pro-weed heads have completely ignored the comments by a qualified drug counsellor. guess you know more than medical professionals then do you??

Pro-weed heads, just get over the fact its illegal and therefore you may consider it your right to smoke it, but its also the governments right to persecute you prosecute you and eventually imprison you for it.
 Warrencraig
Joined: 8/30/2008
Msg: 93
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Should pubs here in the UK be allowed to sell Marijuana ?
Posted: 1/31/2009 6:50:51 PM
Lateralus what are you on about bodies???? when have I mentioned bodies??

I refer back to my comment that this thread is a farce.

So all the drug counsellors and mental health charities advocating dangers of cannibis use are all wrong then??

Or is it just a case YOU dont know anyone f*cked up by weed therefore it must be all us "haters" trying to promote fear???

Regardless of the weed itself, its also only really consumed in this country with tobacco and all the hazards of that so thats reason enough to cite weed a bad due to its "delivery system".
 Marmite baby
Joined: 5/19/2007
Msg: 100
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Should pubs here in the UK be allowed to sell Marijuana ?
Posted: 2/1/2009 4:49:35 AM
I think selling it in a place where people are possibly not at their best, due to being sozzled could be a recipe for disaster, add teen groups to the mix, and ...
It still wouldn't stop dealers from selling other drugs in smoking shelters.
If I had a teenage child I would be very unhappy about it. It still should be illegal to sell drugs, especially in that kind of environment. I also think that pubs shouldn't sell drinks to people who have clearly had enough.
Though it will continue to happen, in shouldn't be encouraged.
 pantsonfire
Joined: 7/19/2006
Msg: 102
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Should pubs here in the UK be allowed to sell Marijuana ?
Posted: 2/1/2009 5:16:30 AM

People like you p*** me of to the point of no return, as you are close minded and have no f****ing idea about what you are talking about.



Spoken like someone happy in their ignorance/ you don't seem to be educated or informed enough to be so sanctimonious.



You people piss me off!!!.. WHY ARE YOU SO BOTHERED ABOUT WHAT PEOPLE DO IN THERE OWN HOME!!!??.. it's got **** all to do with you!!!/..... and you. You're a compete moron



I think some people should get off their high horses and face up to the facts./think for yourself and stop reading the Daily Mail.




So you may think you are holier than most because of your stay clear of drugs, but when in actual fact you may have been subject to taking such a drug



piss off you ****ing carling swilling bonehead. when you understand ANYTHING about ORGANIC CHEMISTRY, look me up./****ing pretentious loser.

ban me. i dont care. ****ing ***holes.you havent ACTUALLY lost anything. **** you.




While you are on your legal high horse, why not just roll over and totally surrender all of your liberties to the government




All those people who are high and mighty and beleive they have never taken such a drug.


Hmmmmmm need I point from which side of the argument these quotes are taken?

And we're the ignorant ones?


 Steve_Sandy
Joined: 3/19/2006
Msg: 104
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Should pubs here in the UK be allowed to sell Marijuana ?
Posted: 2/1/2009 6:37:47 AM
recall some site that listed the lethal doses of drugs, the dose for cannabis was too large to eat and possibly carry, where as nicotine would fit in a glass and alcohol would fit in a bucket

would not want pubs selling drugs, but the dutch seem to have a good idea, alcohol or weed, but not both :)
 pantsonfire
Joined: 7/19/2006
Msg: 116
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Should pubs here in the UK be allowed to sell Marijuana ?
Posted: 2/1/2009 9:57:43 AM
Msg 119, I apologise... I have no problem admitting when I am wrong.. I misread your post, you can be my exception that proves the rule .. The drinking smiley though? Inappropriate, incorrect and uncalled for ... Were you insinuating I must be a drunk to make such an error?

Still you have to admit there is a definite pattern there ...
 pantsonfire
Joined: 7/19/2006
Msg: 126
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Should pubs here in the UK be allowed to sell Marijuana ?
Posted: 2/1/2009 11:10:18 AM

As I have actually seen both sides of this drug culture I can actually state THERE is hardly any "gangsters" selling weed as they don't make enough prfoit out of selling it


The OP would tend to disagree with you there and I thought you were both on the same side of the argument?


Most of the production in the North West of the UK where I used to live is currently controlled by Vietnamese gangsters and violence to protect markets is increaing exponentially. Where I now live, in a small seaside town, I am still able to know who has grown my weed and who the money is going to, but the first signs of major criminal growing gangs are being seen even here. This can only be followed by greater violence that gangs bring.


So is most marijuana production/selling done by gangs or milkmen?
 Cargy.
Joined: 12/26/2008
Msg: 130
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Should pubs here in the UK be allowed to sell Marijuana ?
Posted: 2/1/2009 11:36:55 AM
I love the logic that goes (roughly);

Three substances can be harmful. Two are legal, one isn't... So let's legalise the third!

...And, as two other astute posters have already pointed out, you gotta love the irony that almost all the foul language, the personal insults, and abuse originates from the "pro" posters... You know; the ones who should, by all accounts, be relaxed and mellow...
 Cargy.
Joined: 12/26/2008
Msg: 133
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Should pubs here in the UK be allowed to sell Marijuana ?
Posted: 2/1/2009 11:47:56 AM
would you advocate making the other two illegal? Just out of interest


Even as a regular smoker, I'd certainly like to see that made illegal. I really can't identify any benefits to the habit, and acknowledge it's a filthy addiction.

Not sure about alcohol. That would be a whole other debate. What is clear though, is that the problems associated with alcohol are real and can be seen every weekend (and other nights) in a town centre (or A&E unit) near you!
 pantsonfire
Joined: 7/19/2006
Msg: 136
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Should pubs here in the UK be allowed to sell Marijuana ?
Posted: 2/1/2009 11:42:03 PM
Where did I judge and discredit ALL posts? Ignorance hand in hand with arrogance? Curious now as to where that assumption comes from.. I merely pointed out that I was proven right with post 2.. I said that any anti drug poster would be on the end of accusations of high horse morals and close mindedness.. These accusations were forthcoming... The only judgement I made was against myself and the posting habits of certain others..

I have made no blanket judgements.. I have made no accusations against all marijuana users.. I just pointed out a trend ...

I have my opinions, I post based upon those... I am open to being educated and informed if I am incorrect but up til now there is very little here to change my opinion..
The majority of those posting pro marijuana comments have made assumptions about those who are anti.. They have accused them of hypocrisy, moralistic high handedness, close mindedness and ignorance .. Perhaps that is because the only pro users on here have a predisposition to making immediate personal assumptions.. But perhaps not.. That opinion is subjective to the reader..

I am not getting involved in a personal spat.. I still believe that it would make no difference to the Public Houses that are struggling already.. I still prefer the knowledge that drugs are illegal, I would like to see cigarettes subject to harsher laws.. I don't smoke, I don't want my children to smoke.. However smoking is legal therefor I have no say in the matter.. I deal with it as best as I can given the law's stance.. If marijuana becomes legal, then I shall have to deal with that also..

People have pointed out that smoking and alcohol are just as (if not more) harmful as careful marijuana use.. What then would be the point adding a third narcotic to the legal list of 'highs' when the users cannot be guaranteed keep their usage moderate?

I'm sorry, I may be a moralistic, hypocritical bore but I will stick to my guns.. I do not want to see marijuana on sale in Public houses... I respect those who have put their opinions across properly but get fed up of being told that because I disagree with them, I am the one who is uneducated/ ignorant/ moralistic ...
 stevencl
Joined: 6/19/2004
Msg: 137
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Should pubs here in the UK be allowed to sell Marijuana ?
Posted: 2/1/2009 11:54:16 PM
Should pubs be allowed to sell it? NO, NO and again NO. I am a psychiatric nurse and most admissions to acute units are due to the use of illegal drugs including marijuana. Marijuana can cause paranoid delusions and schizophrenia amongst other mental illness and i've seen a lot of lives destroyed by it
 pantsonfire
Joined: 7/19/2006
Msg: 140
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Should pubs here in the UK be allowed to sell Marijuana ?
Posted: 2/2/2009 2:58:11 AM
^^ I have to admit, if there has to be a drug culture I would prefer that drugs were properly monitored, produced and checked..

Is there such a thing as a truly 'safe' drug?
 pantsonfire
Joined: 7/19/2006
Msg: 142
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Should pubs here in the UK be allowed to sell Marijuana ?
Posted: 2/2/2009 5:21:23 AM

question... if u had a doctor who u trusted and had been going to for years, then found out he smoked weed, would u change doctors


If he was stoned whilst treating me or my family then yes I'd change... I couldn't trust him to be fully aware, I'd be the same if I discovered my Dr drank whilst on duty..



question... if u employed a hot shot solicitor with a great reputation, but then found out he smoked weed, would u use someone with a worse rep


If he was stoned whilst representing me ( although I'd love to know the legal ramifications of a solicitor breaking the law?) then yes I would.. I'd be the same if I discovered he had a bottle of whisky in his drawer..



It's not solely the drug usage I would have qualms about, it would be how they affected the professional integrity of both people...
 Cargy.
Joined: 12/26/2008
Msg: 146
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Should pubs here in the UK be allowed to sell Marijuana ?
Posted: 2/4/2009 1:32:58 AM

Anyone watch horizons? Scientists have discovered a drug within cannabis called CBD that prevents psycosis.


Yeah, I watched it. They didn't say it prevented it, they said it was effective in reducing certain psychoses

It's only found in natural plants and, unfortunately, has been all but eliminated in genetically enhanced varieties in common use (e.g. skunk) to make room for extra THCs.
 pantsonfire
Joined: 7/19/2006
Msg: 148
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Should pubs here in the UK be allowed to sell Marijuana ?
Posted: 2/4/2009 4:17:36 AM
Ok Daftbat I can see how my post could be construed as such, it was not intended as a statement against all posts, more as a marker that a significant number of pro users consider anti drugs opinions to be uneducated, close minded and holier than thou. I stand by what I think but I concede that I may have not put it across very well..

I am not so pigheaded that I would never consider changing my opinion, I have just never seen anything to change it..

I've been around people who smoke pot (weed/ whatever) and I found them to be horrendous company, when stoned... Conversation was impossible, the smell was dreadful and the second hand smoke made me feel sick.. These same people were excellent company when sober.. I know you can make the same accusations about alcohol but I have never got drunk on the alcohol someone else has been drinking...

There was a significantly higher percentage of drop outs amongst the marijuana users at college also... Is that attributable solely to the smoking or not? I don't know but I do not want to risk my children becoming part of those statistics..

I'm sorry I am just never going to be happy with the idea of Marijuana being freely available..
 CK1708
Joined: 3/9/2008
Msg: 176
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Should pubs here in the UK be allowed to sell Marijuana ?
Posted: 3/15/2009 9:46:30 PM
On POF it says do you do drugs No, Socially or often(>3 times/week) so most people do lie, but it people have had Cannibis in the past you would, but No for that question, but I have smoked it in the past and enjoyed it too and it makes working in a job so must better, and I've mixed Cannibis and alcohol together lots of times
 PortadownGuy
Joined: 4/24/2008
Msg: 194
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Should pubs here in the UK be allowed to sell Marijuana ?
Posted: 3/18/2009 5:56:06 PM
Interesting thread - as for the original question, I don't think mixing alcohol and marijuana is a solid idea. In my experience, I can only handle both when starting them at the same time - I couldn't take a few drinks then have a smoke otherwise I would feel a bit queesy. However the coffee shop idea as operated in the Netherlands should be open for discussion. I won't rehash the arguments already posted but from a financial perspective it would be a huge cash cow for the country both in terms of taxable revenue but also the 'weed tourism'. In the current economic climate this would provide relief for many people in the form of entrepreneurial and employment opportunities.

I would welcome a legalisation of weed for reasons of health and conscious. The health reason is because I would be more accepting of it being grown and processed in a legitimate standard without added chemicals. On conscious reasons I would much rather buy it from a licensed establishment even if it were more expensive than criminal methods. Some of the shady characters I have dealt with in the past have been scummy and would always prefer to stay well away from them but I had no other method of obtaining weed.

I don't expect it to be a serious proposition though for many generations to come. This thread already has shown that many people are almost programmed to automatically come to the conclusion that drugs are bad without even looking objectively at it so the politicians would never run with it for fear of not being re-elected. The UK and Ireland has a world renowned drinking culture that somehow people derive pride from and get incredibly defensive when it's qualities are questioned. Just look at the recent proposal for setting a minimum price limit for a unit of alcohol - Gordon Brown realised it would be political suicide (the noose is almost ready anyway). On one hand they are trying to appear to be actively involved in solving the problem when they couldn't really be bothered in the first place. The first step to cutting problematic alcohol consumption is to enforce the current laws and also to remove all advertising and promotions.

I have struggled to analyse whether it is a gateway drug or not. I have taken hard drugs but my first drug was alcohol then tobacco then weed and so on. Using that logic, alcohol was my gateway drug, weed was only the illicit gateway drug. I mainly progressed through these out of a sense of adventure, discovery and experimentation. Maybe they say weed is a gateway drug because of the dogmatic 'just say no' and the like campaigns which paint it as Satan reincarnated however when people realise there isn't much wrong with it they check out what else people lambast.

I personally have used it for quite a few years and in that period have graduated from university and have landed a job that I really wanted. As stated before, the key is the users personality and the quantity and frequency of use, some people have an addictive and psychotic personality as standard so would fail using any substance. I for one find weed a very personal experience and enjoy it best in the company of close friends or by myself....the only person that will take that away from me is myself.
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