Notice: Forums will be shutdown by June 2019

To focus on better serving our members, we've decided to shut down the POF forums.

While regular posting is now disabled, you can continue to view all threads until the end of June 2019. Event Hosts can still create and promote events while we work on a new and improved event creation service for you.

Thank you!

Plentyoffish dating forums are a place to meet singles and get dating advice or share dating experiences etc. Hopefully you will all have fun meeting singles and try out this online dating thing... Remember that we are the largest free online dating service, so you will never have to pay a dime to meet your soulmate.
     
Show ALL Forums  > Relationships  >      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 BeatlesYeahYeahYeah
Joined: 5/25/2008
Msg: 6
Marriage is spelled stupid, no matter how you look at it!Page 2 of 4    (1, 2, 3, 4)

I was honest from day one, told him I did not want to marry, ever again."

"Anyway, damn it...why did he just walk out?"

--Naughtical (the thread authoress)


Naughtical, you deserve empathy and yet you also need to learn how to be empathetic yourself. If, after two years of a happy relationship where you're both in love and he even gets along with your family well, you can't understand why he'd be so hurt or insulted that he hasn't earned his wings and become the guy you can trust with your life, unlike the others who have burned you, you still have a lot to learn about love and being in a partnership.

It's not that you're obligated to do whatever someone else wants, without consideration of YOUR feelings or how it affects YOU, but there is more to the concept of marriage than a legally exclusive union. You are what you do, and you're both kind of married in a defacto sense anyway -- you both love each other, are a couple and protect the relationship from outside influence. It doesn't get more married than that -- psychologically.

And sure, marriage is more complicated, more involved. And though he might have understood where you were coming from when you first got together, he fell in love with you big time -- as in I-want-to-spend-the-rest-of-my-life-with-you big time. Granted, you might have no problem keeping your distance from him, but TRUE love doesn't protect itself -- and after two years you're still all about looking out for NUMBER ONE. The fact that you don't even want to live under the same roof with him is very insulting unto itself. And you've admitted that you don't get it. And you really don't.

It's because you want to be in two places at one time, to eat your cake and have it too. And you can't do it. You are too independent to be in a relationship of any sort -- you behave like a LONER, not a partner. And he finally got fed up with being kept at arm's length. I would have left you too.

This situation is kind of similar to when two people get together to be "friends with benefits": there's a mutual purpose, but no deep involvement, no dates -- just light-weight fun: sex. And then after awhile, one of the two falls in love with the other and the other still has no problem keeping it impersonal and staying emotionally disengaged.

What has happened here, whether you feel he has the right to it or not, is that although he accepted your initial terms of a limited relationship, a switch flipped in his head and he decided you were his soulmate and his love for you ran deeper than he could control.

When two people get this serious about each other or this deeply involved on all levels (spiritually, sexually, emotionally, etc.), they usually can't help but want to get married -- they have transcended mere romance and now see each other as not merely best friends, but FAMILY. And this is where you have been a blockhead: he sees you as his family and you don't even want to live under the same roof with him -- you just want to keep playing house indefinitely. This is a very androgenous situation to say the least.

And given that there are NO incentives for a man to marry a woman these days (because legally, the risk is lethal and it's all HIS), for a guy to be willing to bet it ALL says an aweful lot about how bad he has it for you, how much you mean to him.

But you want to maintain that Wall-of-China insulation, that safety net. You want to make sure that regardless of what happens to him or you both as a couple -- YOU retain that guarantee that YOU will always come out of it smelling like a rose, no matter WHAT happens. And this broke his heart, whether you think he has the right to feel that way about you or not.

He thought that you would finally be able to put your life in his hands, as he was willing to do with you -- but you just can't take that step upward to that level of trust. You still want that escape hatch, that ejection seat button and parachute, and he knows it. And your assertion to him that though he has changed you HAVEN'T changed was a dagger in his heart. He took it as full-blown rejection.

He wanted to be your man, and, like a typical guy who has commitment issues, you essentially told him that you can't be his woman -- or anyone's for that matter. He left you because you don't want to be his family, because you're still "damaged goods" and can never trust someone 100%. He felt there is nothing else he can do to prove that he is nothing like those other losers who have warped your perception of what love actually is or entails.

In various threads, for various reasons, I have quoted a simple maxim imparted to me by a sales boss who copped a cliche that is nonetheless useful:

"1. Work like you don't need the money,
2. dance like no one is watching;
3. and love like you've never been hurt."

You might feel this over-simplifies things, but it doesn't. You have no business getting involved with someone if you're always going to keep them at arm's length. This is unfair. And to expect to have a relationship that progresses to only whatever point is convenient for your personal comfort zone is unfair and selfish -- and completely unrealistic.

I may never get married, but that's because I'm one of those starving artist types and continue to struggle with my dream of winning a Tony for best original music score. I understand that I may ultimately throw my whole life away on a dream that I might not even be skilled enough to realize. But any girl I date will have to recognize that I won't give up this dream and won't stick with any gal who tries to dissuade me rather than support me and push me forward, regardless that it may only yield poverty for me.

BUT that's not the same as your case: you choose to eschew wedlock, not because you can't financially sustain a household properly, but because you insist, that in the end, HE could be the same a-hole you believe yourself to be righteously protecting yourself from. So who could blame him? It's time for you to move on and grow. And you keep procrastinating, because real growth is real painful. You're like a school child who equates getting a swat from the principal with being shot in the head. You see marriage as a kind of gallows because you can't put your past behind you.

Your boyfriend wants a REAL commitment, a lifelong commitment, because he believed himself to have found the REAL THING, the love of his life. Well, Juliet, where do you expect Romeo to go when he climbs the trellis to your balcony and you tell him he can step no further, that he must stay at the edge of the balcony, allowing you to decide what the distance and closeness shall be at all times?

He doesn't see you as loving him enough to ever be a real life partner, a real family member -- he sees you as being willing to let him go if you can't be a control freak and play with a stacked deck, always holding the trump card, or really, "get-0ut-of-jail-free" card. He saw you as the real thing, but in fact it is HE who is the real thing -- you are kind of a fair-weather friend. And he finally accepted that he will never rate enough to break you from living in the past. And so, he realized he had invested himself unwisely, knowing that he shall always be emasculated for having to compromise his dignity in order to have you strictly on your own terms.

In case you still don't get it (should you STILL be so self-absorbed as to continue to insist that a relationship with you can only exist on YOUR terms; that you see fit to never be flexible or open-minded to growth or change): he felt degraded, recognizing that life with you is life with a my-way-or-the-highway ultimatum attached to it.

When you told him that you are going to stick to your guns to the very end, you pretty much gave him his walking papers: he didn't leave you -- you PUSHED him away: you essentially told him that neither he nor anyone else will ever be able to prove to your satisfaction that he or they can ever be better than the worst of who you've experienced in your life. He realized he wasn't ever going to be that special exception to the rule, that he would never be worth your taking a risk, worth risking it all -- as he was willing to do for you.

You didn't see him for who he is, your prejudice against all men from your last disaster on prevents you from seeing anything other than your FEARS. And the one thing that is consistent with humanity is that when presented with both Truth and Fear, people blindly cling to their fears and will never believe the truth where there is a difference between the two.

It sounds like he might be the one that got away. You finally met the guy who WOULDN'T scr*w you over, and HE'S the one you decide to be assertive and controlling with. Good one -- but you're a Johnny-come-lately to the street-smart game, I'm afraid. Kind of like the Monday morning quarterbacks who were afraid to fly AFTER 9/11.

My advice is that if you don't want to spend the rest of your life in a cage you've built around yourself, you might want to consult with a great website for learning about how two people can most fruitfully and constructively behave with each other, "marriagebuilders.com." Check out the essay on "Independence." It should offer enormous enlightenment about how you sabotage your relationship when you stop serving each other and you start behaving like you're in it for yourself.

Additionally, you should really save up some money and visit a good therapist. And not because you need to be "fixed," but because your decision-making is dangerous to you and an outside opinion would do you some good. You're too obsessed with your fears and your need for self-protection to have any objectivity any more. You don't need fixing as much as you need guidance.

It's not that you should feel obligated to marry every guy you date the minute you're coasting along, but rather, you need to see where you're needlessly if not wrongfully sabotaging yourself without just cause.

You deserve to be happy as much as anyone else; and if you can compel a man to love you as much as your EX-boyfriend did, you must have a lot of really great qualities, you must be a real catch. BUT, under the same circumstances, I would have done the same thing -- any self-respecting man would.

You had it all, and then you just let it slip away. In a world where +50% of all marriages are toast in the first five years and 85% of all celebrity marriages are gone in the same amount of time, if you can actually find a speck of happiness with someone, you've accomplished more than Donald Trump can.

And true love may only come ONCE in a lifetime if it comes at all. You might want to re-evaluate your value system, if only for your own sake.
 Merrylass
Joined: 12/30/2007
Msg: 7
view profile
History
Marriage is spelled stupid, no matter how you look at it!
Posted: 1/31/2009 6:20:16 AM
You cut off your nose to spite your face. If you want to be with him forever, then why stand on principle? If you don't, then, yes, you can use the stand against marriage as your excuse but then expect people to walk and don't whine about it. Most folks want commitment; we've been socialized to view marriage as a commitment. Because you shunned the idea of marrying him, you sent him the message that you're 'just not that into him' so he bailed.

Which do you want to keep into your old age, your principle or a good man? It's not as though you'd be compromising on something immoral or criminal, after all.
 Gwendolyn2010
Joined: 1/22/2006
Msg: 8
Marriage is spelled stupid, no matter how you look at it!
Posted: 1/31/2009 7:06:13 AM
I can see this guy sitting in a bar someplace, or perhaps talking to his best friend saying, "I love this woman dearly, but she is so stupid because she won't commit to marrying me."

He wanted something that you didn't want--he felt so strongly about it, he left. If he left after a two year relationship which he wanted to cement with marriage, that's a pretty strong action to take.

So marriage makes no sense to you, it doesn't mean that it makes no sense to him or to other people.

You are inflexible, and apparently, he is, too. You made your decision; he made his.

Now, you accept the consequences of your decision and he accepts his. That's life.

And to pick on the word "marriage" for the why it is spelled, tsk. Do I need to lecture on the etymology of words and how sound changes over the centuries?
 chameleonf
Joined: 12/22/2008
Msg: 9
Marriage is spelled stupid, no matter how you look at it!
Posted: 1/31/2009 9:46:50 AM
So, I don't get it. To those posters who feel the OP should change her stance and marry him if she wants to keep him in her life...how about a switch of gears and suggest that if he really loves her that HE maintain the status quo? I fail to see how getting married and living together or living separately but seeing each other regularly devalues love for another. In fact, I find it actually can keep the excitement going without the daily routine of married life.
 *Eiledon*
Joined: 8/6/2007
Msg: 10
Marriage is spelled stupid, no matter how you look at it!
Posted: 1/31/2009 10:00:35 AM
Some people have a fear of commitment , Naughtical, EOS.

For those ready and prepared for it, it can be the MOST rewarding time of their lives.

I don't know your relationship, or either of your respective views on your relationship, so I can't really advise you what to do on your situation.

I CAN suggest that obviously you weren't on the same page that you may have thought you were?

I understand you had a lot of time invested, but... sometimes these occurrences are a warning to count your blessings!

You're no longer wasting you time, maybe?

The RIGHT ONE IS out There!!

Just a matter of being patient and FINDING Them! ;)

Best of Luck finding YOUR Match!!
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 11
Marriage is spelled stupid, no matter how you look at it!
Posted: 1/31/2009 10:35:37 AM
naughtical:

I was honest from day one, told him I did not want to marry, ever again. He has been my "boyfriend" for over two years. I love him, he is great to me. He is great to my two grown daughters. He is "Papa" to my two granddaughters.

Ok, so he either ignored that you felt this way, or thought he'd be the magical person to change your mind. Either way, unrealistic on his part. You told him about this.

He has his place, I have mine...is that so wrong???

Why should that be wrong? Unless you live so far away that one should move closer, there's no reason why people HAVE to live together.

Talk of marriage and all that goes with it came up and he didn't like what I had to say and he collected his possessions he had here and left...without a word. Seems like he could have at least said "good-bye".

He pushed you on something he knew you didn't want. And he knew you didn't from the beginning...he brought that on himself.

What is so wrong about not wanting to get married? We are (were?) in an exclusive relationship...I thought everything was great.

There's nothing wrong with it. If it ain't broke, why try to fix it? And marriage is not a requirement for all people, it's something each person chooses or not, and it should be respected.

This is a really dumb thread because I can't even form a concrete question to ask.
Apparently I do a lot of dumb things.
I love him, he loves me.
He lives there, I live here.
Is that so wrong?

I think you're being too hard on yourself, and I think he is too. There was no dishonesty or manipulation on your part. If you stated up front how you felt, then he took it upon himself to interpret it to suit his personal reality. What else could you have done?
 readyornot57
Joined: 1/19/2008
Msg: 14
view profile
History
Marriage is spelled stupid, no matter how you look at it!
Posted: 2/1/2009 12:01:21 PM
Naughtical, whaaaaaat?
I had the same thing happen to me.....only she broke it up when I brought up marriage, which was something I truly never thought I would do again.
I still think about the three kids a lot also. I thought we could be a great family.

Lots of people say "never again" then meet someone they NEVER thought they would meet and.....they change.

BUT OF COURSE you can't marry someone you don't want to marry...I understand that. Really.

This is a painful thread. He has to hope the next one he loves WANTS to marry him.
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 15
Marriage is spelled stupid, no matter how you look at it!
Posted: 2/1/2009 12:13:23 PM

If he is just good enough to keep him around but not commit for the rest of your lives - of course, it's right

if I were him, I'd have left, too

It's entirely possible to be in a committed relationship without being married. I've witnessed this in friends and even family members.
Especially when 2 people are of mature age, I think that all the ramifications, both good and bad, need to be weighed in making a decision. And I for one can understand that sometimes mature people who get into a relationship a little later in life( I'm guessing that the OP is not 25, since she mentioned grandkids) but feel like they need some autonomy and "space".
OP, are you sure your boyfriend understands that it's MARRIAGE you oppose, not that you lack love for him?
Cindy O
 sweetest
Joined: 10/8/2007
Msg: 16
view profile
History
Marriage is spelled stupid, no matter how you look at it!
Posted: 2/1/2009 12:38:25 PM

I love him, he loves me. He lives there, I live here. Is that so wrong?

Not wrong exactly; but I think he wanted to live in your heart as much as he placed you in his. Many of us enter new relationships somewhat inflexible and polarized depending on what we’ve been through--that's understandable. And yes, while he agreed to the initial ground rules, I think that he simply came to the realization that it really doesn’t get any better than this. I share Beatle's pov that he wanted you to be his family; that’s a different concept of life together than you were envisioning. To be family to each other through marriage is to be ready to take that giant a leap of faith---again.

He's approaching 60---it's not too much of a stretch to think that he wouldn't have hoped that over time (especially with all the positives you cite), that you wouldn't eventually reach a comfort level and familiarity that would see you capitulate willingly on your stance---and further--grasp and seal the potency of what you share with this man by marrying him. JMO.
 Vannili
Joined: 7/8/2008
Msg: 17
view profile
History
Marriage is spelled stupid, no matter how you look at it!
Posted: 2/1/2009 9:21:13 PM
I don't think marriage is stupid, it is to legalized the union of two people, it is protection of both person . I myself I don't want to get married too , because I work hard for my properties and I don't want to lose my Social Security from my late husband when I reach 62,my SS in not enough to support me . Perhaps your commonlaw husband thinks that investing his best years to you will goes to nothing like he is still like an outsider in your home or he have other reasons to want to legalize the union. Your qoute----- *This is really dumb thread because I can't even form a concrete question to ask. Apparently,I do a lot of dumb things...* You did smart thing that you don't want to get married to him for some reasons ,believe in your guts.
 Vannili
Joined: 7/8/2008
Msg: 19
view profile
History
Marriage is spelled stupid, no matter how you look at it!
Posted: 2/1/2009 9:54:45 PM
Oops! sorry for I missed understood the qoute *he lives ,I live here.* But I am with you if you don't want to get married for some reasons.
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 20
Marriage is spelled stupid, no matter how you look at it!
Posted: 2/9/2009 2:01:42 PM
^^^Wait a sec...have we forgotten that she told him this from the beginning? It's not like she hid it and sprung it on him after months/years. She went into this honestly - is it her fault he went along with it and wanted HER to change? He's an adult, and he knew it from day one. I don't see that as her expecting him to change. He could have walked when he first heard this, but he didn't.
 WanderingRain
Joined: 3/9/2008
Msg: 21
view profile
History
Marriage is spelled stupid, no matter how you look at it!
Posted: 2/9/2009 2:11:58 PM
Marriage can also be for common law reasons.
things to do with what he wants to bequeath you in case of sudden death or something...

And to some, marriage is a source of comfort. Like life insurance, if you may.
You pay insurance, don't you? Most of us pay insurance. It's for peace of mind.
to some, it's a source of comfort and stability.
 LukeMM23
Joined: 4/2/2006
Msg: 22
Marriage is spelled stupid, no matter how you look at it!
Posted: 2/9/2009 2:32:18 PM
There's nothing wrong with marriage in my eyes. I want to get married one day, when everything is right between my girlfriend and myself. That means, I want to live together for a certain amount of time, clear up our feelings on the definition of marriage, learn who each other is before making such a big commitment. She can learn how I live and vice versa. But, I think marriage is a beautiful tradition.

BUT, it obviously is not for everyone.

However, OP, I think your boyfriend thought maybe you had changed your mind over time. Maybe he thought you felt like the time was right. If you don't want to get married right now, clearly tell him that. Say, "Can we wait on this?" Say, "I'm not sure if I want to jump into marriage at the moment." Be honest, but be considerate of the other person's feelings.

If my girlfriend of 2 years told me straight out, "No"... I would probably leave too. It would really hurt to hear such a cold rejection from the woman who supposedly "loves" me.
 bcsofnc57
Joined: 11/20/2007
Msg: 23
Marriage is spelled stupid, no matter how you look at it!
Posted: 2/9/2009 2:47:12 PM
It is very simply, he wants to get married and you do not. I understand why he did what he did, I would have done the same thing. After two years he isn't wrong to expect marriage to be the next step. You aren't willing to marry and live in a way that would make you unhappy, why would you expect him to be willing to carry on as you are without marriage and be unhappy?

It isn't a matter of right or wrong, but the problem is the two of you want different things.
 ColonelIngus
Joined: 9/16/2007
Msg: 24
view profile
History
Marriage is spelled stupid, no matter how you look at it!
Posted: 2/9/2009 4:14:06 PM

(OP) I was honest from day one, told him I did not want to marry...

Some people think everyone really wants to be married no matter what they may say, and find it impossible to imagine otherwise (especially if you don't have a really good reason, like barely escaping once before with your life).

They think you'll eventually "come around" - especially after you get to know their wonderfulness. IOW, a simple case of being in denial, or not being able to believe what you said. Heck, he may not have even heard you way back then, though you remember saying it. Better luck next time.
 Argentum Crinis Philogus
Joined: 4/3/2007
Msg: 25
Marriage is spelled stupid, no matter how you look at it!
Posted: 2/9/2009 4:38:50 PM
Rather than a marriage, perhaps you could form a limited liability corporation. Get most if not all of the legal protections without the issues associated with family law.


Marriage perfected - Now There Is A New Way To Tie The Knot. It is our position that limited liability companies, "LLCs", may prove to be the new marriage model. Marriage is presently available only to one man and one woman. LLCs are available to everyone, couples (of any sexual mix) who wish to pursue life together, a single parent family and groups of friends. Marriage is based on family law, limited liability companies are based on partnership law and the legal arrangement its "members" agree to.


Google Relationship LLC to learn more about this approach.

Best,

ACP
 OutMind
Joined: 2/13/2007
Msg: 27
Marriage is spelled stupid, no matter how you look at it!
Posted: 2/10/2009 6:38:23 AM
I am one of those that would prefer to stay away from the marriage issue. Yet, I have just popped the question to my gf. Why? She believes in marriage as an institution, I believe in US as an institution. They are different things, with the same objectives and almost the same way of life. What happened to you is simple. YOu are paying for your own decisions, your own actions. You turned him down, he is doing what is next, and that is to move on with HIS life. Also be aware of something. If he moved out, it simply means not that is over, but that he will still to his actions, and that is how he sees the future. If you really want to be with this man, it is your turn to call him and talk what being together means to each other.

Actually after I popped the question we had a discussion about what it meant to be married and all that so we ended up postponing our plans, until about a week later we the common ground that was good for her as well as me. So talk to the guy, it isn't over yet. But you need to get off your high horse.
 Cogie36
Joined: 10/23/2008
Msg: 29
view profile
History
Marriage is spelled stupid, no matter how you look at it!
Posted: 3/3/2009 9:48:37 AM
You dont have to be married to be in a comitted relationship....I think when we are young everyone dreams of meeting prince or princess charming and getting married having children and living happily ever after.....and believe me the ones that have are lucky......but not everyone has to have marriage to be happy.......I for one was married for 11 yrs and frankly I doubt i'd ever get married again......I have friends that have been in relationships forever it seems and have no desire to get married......I think it all depends on the individual....
 chameleonf
Joined: 12/22/2008
Msg: 31
Marriage is spelled stupid, no matter how you look at it!
Posted: 3/3/2009 10:30:00 AM

Marriage isn't the right answer for everyone, that's obvious with our 50 percent divorce rate. But think about the other 50 percent, to me friend, that's total evolution of good relationship.


Of those 50% who remain married, one has to wonder how many are actually in a "good" relationship as opposed to just staying in it and "existing" and living a miserable life. Statistics are great when you simply look at numbers.
 fsjones9670
Joined: 3/22/2009
Msg: 32
Marriage is spelled stupid, no matter how you look at it!
Posted: 4/29/2009 11:56:37 AM
This is my first post ever, naughtical, so take it for what it is - somebody's dumbass opinion.

The way I see it, both of you have been foolish in different ways but the exact same reason (even though I think he's more in the wrong than you are - at least you didn't throw it all away, did you?).

Think about this: what is the difference between what the two of you had and a 'marriage'? Some overblown, expensive ceremony, a piece of paper, and the fact that you don't live together. In fact, your relationship might even be better than a so-called 'marriage' because the two of you have your own living space.

(That begs the question: exactly when the hell did a married couple HAVE to live together?)

The point I'm trying to make is: essentially, the two of you HAVE been married. And now, that seems to be over, simply because neither of you could see what a marriage really is.
Show ALL Forums  > Relationships  >