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 TheRealSoul
Joined: 7/5/2008
Msg: 115
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Religion versus Atheism.Page 2 of 9    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9)
'Perhaps just here to wind up the debate'
No the preacher isnt clever enough to do that, cant even answer simple questions with informed or comprehensible answers so just hides his ignorance by not answering, mainly because he cant
its been good entertainment though but its wearing thin now, thought there was a worthy adversary to debate with but alas the preacher isnt big enough in lovespud department to offer up a good stand point. C'est la vie.
Give a little whistle
 TheRealSoul
Joined: 7/5/2008
Msg: 118
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History
Religion versus Atheism.
Posted: 2/17/2009 11:53:24 AM
Off topic? title says religion versus atheism doesnt it?
well thats whats being discussed and religion is getting a thorough spanking
 TheRealSoul
Joined: 7/5/2008
Msg: 121
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History
Religion versus Atheism.
Posted: 2/17/2009 12:18:05 PM
'God' however you understand the title or whatever your faith is within you. lts your concsience, thats why its perceived in so many different ways and why believers feel they need to repent whenever they stray from their religion's rules.
Religion (whatever faith) is purely based on someone elses writing and understanding of conscience.
Its YOUR life, YOUR soul and YOUR conscience.
LIVE IT YOUR WAY
and always let your conscience be your guide
 susan_cd
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 133
Religion versus Atheism.
Posted: 1/15/2010 8:37:11 AM

Could it cause conflict if children came into the equation, or is it possible to respect each others views & let the children make their own mind up about religion?.


Good idea, but not until the children are old & mature enough to make such a decision for themselves, say around 16 years old. Until then no exposure to religion OR exposure to numerous religions & mythologies, with no emphasis on any one particular belief ( in a specific faith) being the "right one".
 susan_cd
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 134
Religion versus Atheism.
Posted: 1/15/2010 8:46:13 AM

So anyone that takes that Judgement out of Gods hands commits the enormous sin of taking God's Authority and is a grave sinner.


So believing that, it follows that it is wrong to deliberately take a human life because you'd be judging someone & usurping god's authority.

Which is why people who are quick to label themselves "christians" are against abortion because murder is wrong. In fact, murder is SO wrong that some "christians" murder doctors that perform abortions. Gotta love the religous mindset that can take 2 polar opposites & reconcile them by quoting an appropriate passage from the Bible
 try1more
Joined: 12/16/2007
Msg: 142
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History
Religion versus Atheism.
Posted: 1/15/2010 12:07:33 PM
"how did he get all the indigenous South American plants and animals to the middle east? And when the flood subsided, how did all the Marsupials end up in Australia and nowhere else on the planet? why did all the Lemurs head to Madagascar? how did these two groups cross continents and oceans to settle in these places, not even leaving a single colony anywhere on the route?"

dont you know nuffink sausage!
it was them land bridges!
 susan_cd
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 143
Religion versus Atheism.
Posted: 1/15/2010 3:43:13 PM
Here's some great quotes about religion :

Man is a Religious Animal. He is the only Religious Animal. He is the only animal that has the True Religion--several of them. He is the only animal that loves his neighbor as himself and cuts his throat if his theology isn't straight. He has made a graveyard of the globe in trying his honest best to smooth his brother's path to happiness and heaven....The higher animals have no religion. And we are told that they are going to be left out in the Hereafter. I wonder why? It seems questionable taste.
Mark Twain


“Religion was invented when the first con man met the first fool.”
Dr. James Corbett
 susan_cd
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 144
Religion versus Atheism.
Posted: 1/15/2010 3:46:16 PM

well if you believe in the Old Testement it will tell you that it didn't.. the world was corrupt, God Flooded the world to because of this, only saving Noah and his family because they was good.


But if you believe that, doesn't it make you wonder why god didn't just destroy all the "evil corrupt" humans? Why all the fuss about building an ark, getting 2 of each animal & having it rain 40 days & nights? If god is supposed to be all powerful, he could just decide to obliterate the sinners & leave Noah & his family alone.
 susan_cd
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 150
Religion versus Atheism.
Posted: 2/7/2010 7:09:23 PM

From way back when and a long forgotten theology degree and from talking to many religious people the idea about people being 'told' to do things is all about a 'test' ie will they listen and believe in God and do what he says? Regardless if it makes sense at the time, out of a blind faith that what he asks will eventually turn out for the best.


So I can murder someone & because I said "god told me to" it's OK?
 susan_cd
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 151
Religion versus Atheism.
Posted: 2/7/2010 7:11:15 PM
If Adam was the first man and Eve the first woman and they together and alone populated the human race is Christianity saying that our entire species is based on incest? Think about it.


That makes the adultery & cuckoldry that Christianity is based on ( Joseph & Mary were married, but "god" impregnated her while she was still a virgin) not seem so bad....


No.

Adam and Eve were not blood relatives.

She was created from his rib, apparently......not from his semen.


So it was masturbation, not incest ???

Anyway, the story of Noah promotes incest too.

 susan_cd
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 153
Religion versus Atheism.
Posted: 2/8/2010 11:06:40 AM

It isn't necessary to take on board a literal belief in every story of the Bible in order to have faith in God.


Which is why numerous groups & individuals "cherry pick"; picking & choosing the passages they want to support their agenda & ignoring the passages that they don't like.

So various interpretations of "God's Word" spring up, & cause a lot of human suffering in the name of god.
 susan_cd
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 155
Religion versus Atheism.
Posted: 2/8/2010 12:25:36 PM
So it was masturbation, not incest ???

I'm not sure how masturbation was involved.....


Well, post # 166 said :


If Adam was the first man and Eve the first woman and they together and alone populated the human race is Christianity saying that our entire species is based on incest?
No.
Adam and Eve were not blood relatives.

She was created from his rib, apparently......not from his semen.


So if Eve isn't a blood relative (because she was created from Adam's rib) then she's an extension of Adam; & when they have sex then if it isn't incest it'd be masturbation.




Anyway, the story of Noah promotes incest too.

Relevance to Christianity?


The story of Noah has as much relevance to Christianity as the story of Adam & Eve.

Besides, the thread title is : religion versus atheism, not Christianity versus atheism.
 susan_cd
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 158
Religion versus Atheism.
Posted: 2/8/2010 4:27:40 PM
I was responding to your post in Msg 172 when you asked "in what way?".


The story of Noah has as much relevance to Christianity as the story of Adam & Eve.


In what way?



In other words, it has no relevance in terms of christianity, as both fables are from the old testament. You're the one asking in what way it should be relevant to Christians; my answer is that each has equal relevance to Christian belief.


Also, how do you know that people 'cherry-pick'?


I said "numerous" groups & individuals, not all groups & individuals. Which is why those opposed to homosexuality will quote the relevant passage from Leviticus to prove homosexuality is wrong, but will conveniently ignore the various passages from Leviticus on proper sacrificing of animals & other passages which they don't agree with & don't wish to follow.

Speaking of homosexuality, I've yet to see a quote attributed to Christ saying homosexuality is wrong; people only use the Leviticus passage from the Old Testament... if they wish to do that they should be calling themselves Leviticusians, not Christians.
 Strider886
Joined: 3/28/2006
Msg: 161
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History
Religion versus Atheism.
Posted: 2/9/2010 3:06:23 AM
All stories are based on some truth, granted.

But his name wasn't even "Jesus".....
It was Yeshua, which is nothing like Jesus at all!

If you can't get a simple thing like a name correct, then im afraid it puts the whole story into disrepute.
 Strider886
Joined: 3/28/2006
Msg: 163
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History
Religion versus Atheism.
Posted: 2/9/2010 4:12:41 PM
But surely therefore based on the truth that there was a "creation", the deepest roots of most religions are actually exceptionally similar. It doesn't matter what you believe, it's all just another way of explaining or representing the facts.

Personally though, im a Jedi and yes I will be exercising my right as demanded by the Jedi council, to wear my light sabre at all times!
 susan_cd
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 171
Religion versus Atheism.
Posted: 2/11/2010 3:39:39 PM

No, but you asked "how do you know that people 'cherry-pick'?". It's obvious by listening to some people that that's exactly what they do.

Obvious?

So, when you hear such things, do you counter their argument with another Biblical quote?


Sometimes, it depends what they are doing. I don't care what anyone wants to believe for themselves, but when they try to force their beliefs into classrooms, or have society adjust itself around their beliefs then sure. And it is often very easy to find a quote from the bible that counters their argument, which shows the book is filled with mutually contradictory teachings.

perhaps it was edited that way to allow the priests to use it to find some sin they can charge you with no matter WHAT you do ( or don't do), and extract payment for the coffers of their business... I mean coffers of the church.
 susan_cd
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 175
Religion versus Atheism.
Posted: 2/12/2010 6:03:39 PM

However new research by forensic archaeologists at Oxford University has possibly revealed what the frontsheet may have said.


'The Bible - A Collection of Bedtime Stories for My Children'..........


Further research with better equipment now reveals the frontsheet read:

The Bible-- The characters and events in this book are fictitous. Any similarity to real persons, living or dead, is coincidental and not intended by the author.
 Jo van
Joined: 5/23/2009
Msg: 178
Religion versus Atheism.
Posted: 2/13/2010 8:44:07 AM

Actually no, yer completely wrong, the Bible has been proved time and time again to be historically correct, the so called sheep herders and goat keepers certainly had they finger on the ancient political pulse and knew exactly what was going on, they recorded them (sometimes condensed, sometimes biased - as did other regimes back then...In fact, look at the news now, they still do!!) and it has certainly been substantiated by archaeoligical evidence from respected academic sources...So, in conclusion, if they are fictitious characters, then our whole history is fictitious...That put's us where, now?

I think that's an important point.
Much of our history is an "edited version", I don't know who it was who first coined the phrase; "History is written by the victors", I know that Winston Churchill once remarked " I know that History will think kindly of me, for I shall write it", or something close to that.
And previous 'versions' of history, have been systematically removed by conquering armies, or sometimes by successive rulers or Pharos, to the point of erasing the faces of carvings, and removing names from tombs, or destroying them. We have always been a "superstitious" species.
You only need to read the folklore versions of the Crusades, and then compare them with the same events viewed from another perspective; Armed gangs of mercenary thugs, whose pay was whatever they could steal, as they raped and pillaged their way to the "Holy Land", and the Knights Templar, whose antics were more akin to the Waffen SS., than to some Holy Order, committing some major massacres on un-armed civilian populations . None of it resembled the versions of Good King Richard in my Robin Hood books, nor the 'Chivalry' spoken of in "The Knights of the Round Table"
We do have a tendency to romanticize our pasts, ....it's "good for moral"..
We know that the chronology of the Bible is roughly correct, we may be able to confirm that the individuals existed, but do we know that the events happened as told? Miracles...?
I was actually raised in an environment where one parent believed, (My Mum) and one parent was an atheist. More by default, than through decision, I was raised in C of E schools, because that's all there was.
But I also remember going to Sunday school, when I was young, though, I suspect this was just to get rid of us for a few hours, rather than any sort of devout belief. Like most 'Christians', we never went to church.
I don't remember any arguments about it, they argued about everything else, but I can't remember religion ever being mentioned, other than my Mum telling me "God will punish you", to which I would usually reply; "he seems to punish everyone, sooner or later, whether you're good or bad"
But I learned about the bible at school, and at the all-boys grammar school I attended, it was taught in the same matter of fact way that other "history" was taught; Jesus said this, Paul said that, this miracle happened then...
It wasn't until much later that it occurred to me that some of this stuff 'didn't add-up'
Now I believe; question everything, do a bit of research, and make up your own mind.
People have been known to tell "un-truths" in books....
 susan_cd
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 179
Religion versus Atheism.
Posted: 2/13/2010 9:48:06 AM
the thread seems to be incorrectly titled, it should be "Christianity versus Atheism", I haven't seen posts here saying Buddhism or Wiccan beliefs are preferable to atheism.

With this in mind:

History of astrology

The history of astrology encompasses a great span of human history and many cultures. The belief in a connection between the cosmos and terrestial matters has also played an important part in human history.

The history of astrology can now be traced back to ancient Babylonia, and indeed to the earliest phases of Babylonian history, in the third millennium B.C.


shouldn't Christianity be referred to as "new age" ? It's a lot younger than astrology.
 Taztiger72
Joined: 2/26/2008
Msg: 181
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Religion versus Atheism.
Posted: 2/16/2010 10:12:48 PM
Hold on here Atheism is a Religious Belief and has a platform so it is a Religion - devoid of a Creator.

Atheism - No God Figure - No Heaven / Hell - we are just here.

Nihilism - Atheism is not far enough - No Reason for anything - no law

Agnostic - Someone who holds no opinion or beliefs whatsoever

People get Agnostic confused with Atheism

The first written about Atheists were the Greek Philosophers in the BC Times - advocating against the Polytheistic System that was in place and didn't warrant anything useful just ritual. Socrates was an Atheist.

The Reason Atheism can't get it's way with the Government is this FACT the US FEDERAL GOVERNMENT considers it the same as any other religion and if Atheism tried to get all it wanted - then it would be a conflict between Church and State - Sorry guys - you should know this already.
 Taztiger72
Joined: 2/26/2008
Msg: 183
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Religion versus Atheism.
Posted: 2/17/2010 12:31:10 AM

You might as well say any belief system is a religion in that case.


No, but anything to do with the unanswerable question is.


Likewise your example of the conflict between church and state for atheism in the US is just nonsense.


The US will never be 100% anything - it will be as it is and wants to be.
 susan_cd
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 185
Religion versus Atheism.
Posted: 2/17/2010 10:44:17 AM
The problem with debating these types of things ( religion VS atheism, evolution VS creationism, science VS faith) is that most often the people debating on the religion side of the question want the debate to proceed with both sides accepting the Bible is a factual historical book, isn't to be questioned, and continuing from that premise.
 Taztiger72
Joined: 2/26/2008
Msg: 186
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Religion versus Atheism.
Posted: 2/17/2010 9:11:52 PM

the people debating on the religion side of the question want the debate to proceed with both sides accepting the Bible is a factual historical book, isn't to be questioned, and continuing from that premise.


Say what? Don't lump all Christians into the Evangelical World - My Christian Group as many others believes in Science, Evolution, Life on other planets - we just chose to believe there is a creator which is Faith - and no even we can't show you - you have to make your own mind on that. In Fact My Christian Group knows and acknowledges that the Book of Genesis is an Allegory. As far as I am concerned if you say that all Christians are Faith Based Bible Thumping Creationists - then you have absolutely no nothing of the Religion - you assume. Sorry that's the way it is.
 susan_cd
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 187
Religion versus Atheism.
Posted: 2/17/2010 9:28:34 PM

Say what? Don't lump all Christians into the Evangelical World -


I said most often, not always. Most Christians wouldn't even debate the point once they knew the other person wasn't interested, they merely wish them well & move on. It's the ones (that want the Bible brought into the science class, schools etc, ) that want public debates & want to arrange the rules of the debate to their specifications.

I know all Christians aren't Ctholics, but the Pope has stated that there's nothing wrong with the study of evolution & the big bang & what occured after the big bang... he said what happened before the big bang is another story...

And there's nothing in the theory of evolution that says there was no creator, it's just the small vocal groups that want the book of Genesis taken as a factual account of what happend that are so vehemently opposed to the teachin of evolution.
 Taztiger72
Joined: 2/26/2008
Msg: 188
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Religion versus Atheism.
Posted: 2/17/2010 9:40:31 PM

I know all Christians aren't Ctholics, but the Pope has stated that there's nothing wrong with the study of evolution & the big bang & what occured after the big bang... he said what happened before the big bang is another story...


I'm not of that group - but even they accept Science and Open Minded towards Evangelicals

Evangelicals - the Modern Day Puritans - they are crazy - and belong back in the Past - but more and more people are drawn to them - this country is going to hell...
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