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Show ALL Forums  > California  > The latest stimulus 'deal' -- a deal or a steal?      Home login  
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 fzrhusker
Joined: 10/8/2005
Msg: 305
Back to the StimulusPage 16 of 17    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17)
The area I live in Nor Cal has the 4th highest unemployment rate in the U.S. 18% They would probably be open to anything. Since the closure of the meat packing house in 2003 the unemployment rate here has been steady around 13%.

http://www.bls.gov/web/laummtrk.htm

I believe in employee owned companies, not union owned or government owned.
 fzrhusker
Joined: 10/8/2005
Msg: 306
Back to the Stimulus
Posted: 8/25/2009 3:32:53 PM
ACORN's Stimulus

By Matthew Vadum on 1.27.09 @ 3:30PM

With a new president ensconced in the White House, it's time to roll out the goodies for loyal supporters in left-of-center political advocacy groups such as ACORN.

The latest economic stimulus bill promises to do just that by providing a huge bailout --up to $5.2 billion in taxpayer funds -- for some of the same liberal groups that helped get Barack Obama elected.

The three relevant fiscal provisions are buried deep in the $825 billion monstrosity known as the proposed "American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009."

Title XII of the spending legislation backed by the Democratic congressional leadership and the Obama administration would dole out $1 billion in old-fashioned slush funds for the Community Development Block Grants (CDBG) program. Local politicians love CDBG because it is flexible. The program gives them wide latitude when spending grant money and allows local leaders to use federal dollars on local projects that they wouldn't dream of spending their own local tax dollars on. ACORN loves CDBG because it is adept at lobbying for CDBG funds.

A separate $10 million is provided in the stimulus package to develop or rehabilitate low-income housing under the Self-Help and Assisted Homeownership Opportunity Program (SHOP).

But the biggest chunk of the $5.2 billion comes in the form of $4.19 billion for foreclosure relief through the Neighborhood Stabilization Program.

Although ACORN operatives usually get their hands on such funds only after they have first passed through the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development or state and local governments, the new spending bill largely eliminates these dawdling middle men, making it easier to get Uncle Sam's largess directly into the hands of the same people who run ACORN's various vote fraud and extortion rackets. And the legislative package provides these funds without the usual prohibition on using government money for lobbying or political activities.

The current version of the stimulus package would allow nonprofit groups to compete with states and localities for $3.44 billion from the $4.19 billion Neighborhood Stabilization Program allocation. The remaining $750 million from the program plus the $10 million in SHOP funds would be set aside exclusively for nonprofit groups.

Probably chief among the groups to benefit from stimulus spending will be ACORN, the infamous network of 100-plus left-wing activist groups.

As everyone who hasn't been in a coma for the last year knows, ACORN and President Obama go way back.

You may remember in October when ACORN's CEO, "chief organizer" Bertha Lewis, appeared in a YouTube video in front of a banner reading "Working Families Party: Fighting for Jobs and Justice," and endorsed Obama for president. (The Working Families Party, a minor New York party, is an ACORN affiliate.) This plea to voters eliminated any doubts that the most diehard benefit-of-the-doubt-giving ACORN supporters may have been harboring that ACORN's voter-registration and get-out-the-vote drives were aimed at getting conservatives and Republicans to the polls.

ACORN's national political action committee, ACORN Votes, also endorsed Obama. ACORN national president Maude Hurd said Obama was "the candidate who best understands and can affect change on the issues ACORN cares about like stopping foreclosures."

You may also remember that during last year's primaries, the Obama campaign paid $832,598 to Citizens Services Inc., another ACORN affiliate, for get-out-the-vote activities. It's also well known that Obama led a voter drive for ACORN affiliate Project Vote, represented ACORN in court, and lectured at ACORN on organizing techniques.

Then-candidate Obama promised a gathering of community organizers in December 2007 that he would involve them in the policy process. "Before I even get inaugurated, during the transition, we're going to be calling all of you in to help us shape the agenda. We're going to be having meetings all across the country with community organizations so that you have input into the agenda for the next presidency of the United States of America."

Apparently President Obama is a man of his word.
 AceOfSpace
Joined: 5/28/2007
Msg: 307
Back to the Stimulus
Posted: 8/25/2009 8:35:26 PM

I believe in employee owned companies, not union owned or government owned.


Then you'd like Mondragon. That's how they do it.

You might also like some books by Kim Stanley Robinson. The Mars series has been around a while, but it is still relevant and some of the best-researched sci-fi ever!
 fzrhusker
Joined: 10/8/2005
Msg: 308
Back to the Stimulus
Posted: 8/26/2009 1:06:24 AM
Here it comes

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kunB4SnAh4g&feature=related
 Petrified_Wood
Joined: 7/29/2009
Msg: 309
Back to the Stimulus
Posted: 8/26/2009 6:27:55 AM
Companies offering product design services are springing up to develop new products. There are lots of ideas out there for products. Some are good ones. Not everyone who has a good idea has business savvy, unfortunately, and some will lose a huge percentage of their profit potential to patent attorneys, venture capitalists and general bleeding from bad business.

http://www.absolutelynew.com/intro/g2/?gclid=CLamoJO0wZwCFRYiagodk1b0oA
http://www.buildmyproduct.com/About%20History.htm
http://www.mantaro.com/?gclid=CN7u2ba1wZwCFRxNagodKkC_ng
 GolfCoast
Joined: 3/17/2008
Msg: 310
Back to the Stimulus
Posted: 8/26/2009 8:28:52 AM
When I was in business school Lincoln Electric was the existence proof of employee owned, or at least employee involved companies. In part it was given as one strategy to prevent unionization. Lincoln Electric was a wonderful story lacking everything but the King Vidor soundtrack from "Our Daily Bread", (a really fine movie btw about a group of workers who start a commune during the Great depression, if you haven't seen it you will enjoy). Anyway, I checked up on Lincoln Electric this morning to see how they message these days their previous pride in worker run/managed. Not a word of this prior differentiator to be found.

Thinking about employee owned, why it isn't featured now, it occurs that the current business and technical skills required, engineering talent, globalization skills, computer systems, process redesgn, etc. don't lend themselves (maybe) to classless manufacturing. Maybe they abandoned this business model based upon a strategy developed by an evil capitalist consulting firm bent upon holding down the proleteriat. Or maybe they survived because they evolved to new realities.
 AceOfSpace
Joined: 5/28/2007
Msg: 311
Back to the Stimulus
Posted: 8/26/2009 11:47:00 AM
Or maybe, without any particular intention to do so, the schools that impart the technical and managerial skills needed to operate both stock companies and employee-owned co-ops also instill an orientation that favors stock companies.

Governance is difficult enough in a stock company, and unless a management is competent to deal with employee owners, a co-op can be very difficult to manage. I only know of one academic discipline that deals with the management of such an enterprise: membership club management (within hospitality management).

Managers with that skill set are rare. Not being able to find a good one could lead an employee-owned co-op to pack it in and allow themselves to be bought out.

The people who make big donations to business schools typically aren't employee owners or co-op managers. But who knows, maybe there is a program out there that would like to specialize in this particular niche.
 GolfCoast
Joined: 3/17/2008
Msg: 312
Back to the Stimulus
Posted: 8/26/2009 6:17:03 PM
Ace my point was entirely values neutral. At some point you should take the most obvious tact, gather a bunch of talented like-minded individuals and show us how. In a free society (well you should have started this prior to Obama but that's another story) all forms of such enterprise would have formed organically and spontaneously.

I suppose our respective differences in this issue comes down to the nature of man. You beleive they are innately wonderful souls willing to toil selflessly in the service of their fellows whilst I assume the greater portion of mankind would steal from their fellows asking to be fed, housed, medical cared while still compliaing it was inadequate and that the greed of their betters must be stamped out. Get the picture?

I'm always shocked how the obvious is so elusive to the left.
 AceOfSpace
Joined: 5/28/2007
Msg: 313
Back to the Stimulus
Posted: 8/26/2009 6:23:47 PM
What you call obvious I call self-fulfilling. Presume the worst and that's what you get. Build a system around that presumption and inculcate everyone in it, and you will find it is difficult to break people out of. Co-ops are tougher to run than stock companies in a stock-company oriented system, but the nature of cooperation plays out in both cases. What makes co-ops tougher is that people don't know which rules still hold when they are part-owners and which ones don't. When they're wage serfs, they all know the deal.
 GolfCoast
Joined: 3/17/2008
Msg: 314
Back to the Stimulus
Posted: 8/26/2009 6:40:08 PM
Ace a lot of Japanese business practices stressed flat org charts, associates rather than boss-employee etc. and I generally approve and enjoy these corporate cultures. Military special forces also seem to spend less time on hierarchy than regular army. I suppose on some level motivation leads these kinds of groups to put more value on mission and competence than rank. Somehow I doubt your basic commune lover has a background in special forces hahahaha.

I once set out with 4 college friends to journey from London to Nepal. They all mutually swore there were no leaders, all were equals. Soon our days were reduced to the lowest common denominator of who got up latest, went to bed earliest, and each decision was contested to my dismay. Day 3 I wearied of their lack of direction and went my own way. Later friends related they went home within 48 hours to their moms house as their laundry became soiled and it took too much energy to find a laundry.

Nothing is less understand, is more valuable, and is more despised by slackers than managerial skill. I eagerly await the post-mortem on your coop, I'll do the lessons learned for free.
 AceOfSpace
Joined: 5/28/2007
Msg: 315
Back to the Stimulus
Posted: 8/26/2009 11:30:54 PM
Well, back in the day I did a co-op--a self-managed cafe at a college campus. It served pizza & sandwiches, beer & wine, espresso & desserts. The lessons I learned were these: 1) the prevailing competitive culture played out within the co-op despite everyone's good intentions--so much so that in order for the co-op to survive, I had to resign. Part of that was on me, part of that was because of the conflicts surrounding the role of founder vs. member. I was too young to understand how to finesse it. But my act of leaving and the crisis it precipitated forced the members to step up, and they did. It had a 10-year run, averaged $30K in monthly sales in a 900 sq. ft. store, and the rent it paid for the concession funded many student life activities that otherwise would not have happened. 2) People in a co-op have to have a strong business plan and stick to it. Every time they followed the plan, they made money and had fun. Every time they deviated from the plan they lost money and had struggles.

It took me a long time to get over the heartbreak of losing that dream, but the members of my new co-operative household will be moving in soon. I can hardly wait!

BTW, not having a formal hierarchy doesn't mean there isn't room for leadership. It means that there is more room for leadership to emerge. I wouldn't have had to quit if I had understood that the leadership was emerging and testing itself against me in my role as founder. All I needed to do was step back and support them, but my own comeptitive upbringing got in my way.
 AceOfSpace
Joined: 5/28/2007
Msg: 316
Back to the Stimulus
Posted: 8/26/2009 11:38:04 PM

Ace my point was entirely values neutral.


Pardon me, but this is simply bullshit. You haven't uttered a single thing that was values-neutral since the day you showed up in these forums. If you _think_ that your story about Lincoln Electric was values neutral, you really have been sipping the kool-aid. You are a partisan, and an ideaogue, but I've come to like you anyway. But please, please, please don't think you can pose as objective. You're not. You're on the lookout for any shred of evidence that will appear to corroborate the position you hold already. That's what you do. It's obvious to everyone else. You might as well admit it to yourself. If you were even slightly open-minded, you wouldn't have to end every posting with a slam against someone. Values-neutral. That's rich!!!!
 GolfCoast
Joined: 3/17/2008
Msg: 317
Back to the Stimulus
Posted: 8/27/2009 4:35:28 AM
Ace a counter-revolutionary force of menshiviks probably misunderstood the thoughts of the dear leader and forced you and your gang of Leninist's out into the cold cruel world depriving you fo free soda and chips.

We've stumbled upon the roor cause of your conflict. I'll make the kool-aid for you.
 AceOfSpace
Joined: 5/28/2007
Msg: 318
Back to the Stimulus
Posted: 8/27/2009 7:02:54 AM
That's the quality of your "lessons learned?" And here I was starting to like you.
 GolfCoast
Joined: 3/17/2008
Msg: 319
Back to the Stimulus
Posted: 8/27/2009 7:19:18 AM
Sorry Ace I got a little devil inside me that takes control whenever I'm confronted with profoundly wrong thinking. Honestly I'm loved by all who know me but they do at least daily roll their eyes over my childlike delight in pointing out the strange and bizarre around us all, You're gonna miss me when I'm gone^5
 AceOfSpace
Joined: 5/28/2007
Msg: 320
Back to the Stimulus
Posted: 8/27/2009 10:08:14 PM

Sorry Ace I got a little devil inside me that takes control whenever I'm confronted with profoundly wrong thinking.


Do you mean "profoundly wrong," or "challenges the values that you claim to be neutral about?"

Perhaps we're both plagued by that same little devil! LOL!!!
 AceOfSpace
Joined: 5/28/2007
Msg: 321
Back to the Stimulus
Posted: 8/27/2009 10:11:22 PM

From what we know, it seems like a big political pay back program.


Probably so. Still, I'd like to see just who and how well connected the recipients are. My guess is it's the same crew that made out under the Republican administration for the most part. Care to take that wager?

You can bet that Ayers and Wright aren't getting any of it. And I'll bet that ACORN is way down on the list, if they're even on it at all. So who is?
 fzrhusker
Joined: 10/8/2005
Msg: 322
Back to the Stimulus
Posted: 8/27/2009 10:23:50 PM
Ace hate to disagree with you but here is the back door legislation, probably belongs in the Mandatory service thread. Where do you think this money will go?

http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h1388/show

Introduced by Carolyn McCarthy(D) NewYork


OpenCongress Summary

The Edward M. Kennedy Serve America Act (formally the Generations Invigorating Volunteerism and Education (GIVE) Act) authorizes a dramatic funding increase for AmeriCorps and other volunteer programs, and the creation of new programs for seniors and veterans. It establishes a goal of expanding from 75,000 government-supported volunteers to 250,000, and would increase education funding and establish a summer volunteer program for students, paying $500 (which would be applied to college costs) to high-school and middle-school student who participate.

President Barack Obama signed the legislation on April 21, 2009. While it authorizes $5.7 billion over six years, Congress must still approve the funding as part of the budget.


The Serve America Act of 2009 (H.R. 1388) aims to expand the number of volunteer service opportunities for Americans, with a federal goal of 250,000 positions for AmeriCorps volunteers, seniors, students and veterans. The legislation creates a framework for an expanded service program, and would cost $5.7 billion over a six-year period. The legislation was signed by President Barack Obama on April 21, 2009. He has requested $1.1 billion in the Fiscal Year 2010 Budget to fund the first year.
 AceOfSpace
Joined: 5/28/2007
Msg: 323
Back to the Stimulus
Posted: 8/27/2009 11:02:45 PM
No problem, fz. You generally back your stuff up. You & Match are both pretty tough to argue against.

I haven't been following ACORN all that much. Do they rely on Americorps volunteers?

Personally, I see the volunteer bill as a part of the stimulus that will actually stimulate the economy in a positive way. Kind-of like the old NRA of the '30s.

JD, I'm not seeing anything mandatory about the volunteer program as of yet. What am I missing?
 fzrhusker
Joined: 10/8/2005
Msg: 324
Back to the Stimulus
Posted: 8/27/2009 11:11:22 PM
Ace its its more the generalities of how the bill is written, and the verbiage of distribution of funds and my extreme paranoia about what is not being said in the overall picture and actions of this administration. Czars etc.

But I will bet my life that Acorn will be one of the biggest recipients.
 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 325
view profile
History
Back to the Stimulus
Posted: 8/27/2009 11:52:10 PM

Kind-of like the old NRA of the '30s.


I wonder if the statists of today would wince a little at the fascist overtones of the National Recovery Agency. Just to cite a couple, its symbol was a stern-looking Blue Eagle, clutching a bunch of gears in one talon (cooperation, power, industry!) and a cluster of lightning bolts (energy, creativity, vitality!) in the other. (Mussolini's symbol was a sheaf (or "fasci") of wheat.) And the Nazis, of course, also had the German eagle on banners, etc.

FDR named a man with connections in Hollywood to promote the NRA, and they made a musical. It had quite a few stars in it, and one number featured a line of Rockettes with little blue eagles stamped on their thighs. There's an overhead shot where the dancers all go through their moves, and like a card trick at a football game, suddenly form the image of a giant blue eagle. Say, that was a swell show!

They even had a 5th Avenue parade, where all the workers in New York got the day off and marched in different colored uniforms, each trade with its own color, marching in formation. Giant blue eagle banners were put up everywhere, and carried by the marchers. That's an awful lot like the parades the Nazis put on, although I'm not sure many people realized it. A few journalists did though, comparing Roosevelt to the two European dictators. And toward the end, they had grandstands put up so Eleanor Roosevelt could review all 100,000 of them, or whatever it was, and wave.

Of course, Mrs. Roosevelt had never said that the first time she'd ever felt proud of America in her adult life was when Franklin won his party's nomination. She loved this country. And even though she grew up with a silver spoon in her mouth, she was no snob.
 fzrhusker
Joined: 10/8/2005
Msg: 326
Back to the Stimulus
Posted: 8/28/2009 12:05:57 AM
For other uses, see Blue Eagle (disambiguation).
NRA Blue Eagle

The Blue Eagle, a blue-colored representation of the American "thunderbird," with outspread wings, was a symbol used in the United States by companies to show compliance with the National Industrial Recovery Act. It was proclaimed on July 20, 1933, as the symbol of industrial recovery by Hugh Samuel Johnson, the head of the National Recovery Administration.

The design was sketched by Johnson, and based on an idea utilized by the War Industries Board during World War I.

All companies that accepted President Franklin D. Roosevelt's Re-employment Agreement or a special Code of Fair Competition were permitted to display a poster showing the Blue Eagle together with the announcement, "NRA Member. We Do Our Part." Consumers were exhorted to buy products and services only from companies displaying the Blue Eagle banner. According to Johnson,

"When every American housewife understands that the Blue Eagle on everything that she permits into her home is a symbol of its restoration to security, may God have mercy on the man or group of men who attempt to trifle with this bird."

On September 5, 1935, following the invalidation of the compulsory code system, the emblem was abolished and its future use as a symbol was prohibited.

In Philadelphia, Pennsylvania in 1933, DeBenneville "Bert" Bell formed a new National Football League franchise to replace the defunct Frankford Yellow Jackets, naming this team the Eagles in recognition of the NRA (a name the team retains to the present).





Jack it is on the Congressional web site. It is not the mandatory service for me, but where all this money is going to go.

http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h1388/show

 AceOfSpace
Joined: 5/28/2007
Msg: 327
Back to the Stimulus
Posted: 8/28/2009 7:20:15 AM
Yow! Looks like you caught me out, there JD. I thought the NRA was a public works program. I had no idea of its full complexion. I think that the Supremes of the day did right to pare it back.
 MermaidSari
Joined: 2/4/2007
Msg: 328
view profile
History
Back to the Stimulus
Posted: 11/21/2009 7:31:34 PM
The Chicago way (lol...just got a chuckle out of this Jack). :-p
 Gogetter56
Joined: 9/27/2008
Msg: 329
Back to the Stimulus
Posted: 11/21/2009 10:41:56 PM
Oh the Chicago way is right though and sorry to say, it's not really funny, but glad you got a laugh MS :-D
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