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 no_excuses_please
Joined: 6/28/2009
Msg: 118
You can't be serious...apples to oranges once againPage 12 of 22    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22)
I oppose hunting because:

1) The lack of safety shown by a number of hunters both to themselves as well as the public around them.
My house is in a semi-rural area and I've had a number of incidents where "hunters" discharged their weapons waaayy too close to my house.
I'm sure I'm not alone w/ this happening

2) My experience that most "hunters" rarely eat most or any of their kills.
I don't how many I've been offered venison by people that seem to have no use for it..AFTER THEY KILLED THE ANIMAL FOR IT.

3) While I don't have a problem w/ deer,wild boar and etc being shot, I have issues w/ rare predators being hunted and shot for sport.
The overpopulation of deer is in direct proportion to the lack of predators left to hunt them.
IMHO, predator and sport hunting should outlawed.

Just my two cents....
 no_excuses_please
Joined: 6/28/2009
Msg: 119
Hunting is a very safe sport
Posted: 7/23/2009 10:28:32 AM

You are required to pass a safety course before being issued any license to hunt. Yes there are accidents every year due to carelessness or whatever and usually to the individual hunter. But unless they seek out hunters and intrude on their activity, the general public is in no way in any danger. The streets of New Jersey IMO are a lot more dangerous to the public.
New Jersey's laws don't allow high powered rifles for hunting, the range of shotguns and muzzleloaders are nowhere near that of hunting rifles. Sure it may sound like their awful close but they can be well out of range for anyone to get injured. 100-150 yards is pushing the limits of shotguns and muzzleloaders, theres nothing to fear.
I've gotten more than 100 lbs of meat out of one deer, to avoid having it spoil I offer it to friends and family. Perhaps they have too much and thought you'd enjoy some. You should thank them for even offering.
Wolves were reintroduced into parts of N. America and their numbers have increased. Along with great management practices the numbers of deer have also come back and exceeded to what they were at the beginning of the 19th century before the wolves were eradicated by land owners and farmers.
Sarah Palin got blasted for shooting wolves one of the top predators in N. America. What they neglected to inform or outright ignored is that packs of wolves were decimating the population of elk. In order to keep the wolves from killing off too many deer and elk, it's necessary to thin them out.
Inform yourselves before blasting the hunting community.


Let's see:

1) I LIVE Indiana. I'm working in NJ. Next time ASK before you assume.

2) Safety classes,eh? Does that cover not drinking while carrying a firearm? Or shooting across roads? Or shooting near occupied dwellings? Or shooting in congested areas? Or...any number of safety violations that occur annually?
Hmm...how's that working out?

3) If somebody kills an animal, then they should have some type of plan of what to do w/ the meat BEFORE they kill the animal. What's the hard part about that?

4) Wolves were re-introduced because they were hunted to near-extinction by humans attempting to protect grazing herds.
Since most humans are hardly biologists, removing an apex predator from the food chain was not a very intelligent move was it? How'd nature react to that bit of wisdom?

5) What Sarah Palin should hardly be held up as an example of anything good. If you are a supporter of hers...then maybe I should use easier vocabulary for you.

6) I have hunted,brain trust. I didn't care for it...and that's why I stated what I did.

You like hunting...then go ahead.
It's still legal.
 shmodzilla
Joined: 10/6/2008
Msg: 120
Hunting is a very safe sport
Posted: 7/23/2009 11:19:20 AM
I don't know what hunters he's been exposed to but every person i have ever known eats their kills. The exception is "pest" wich in turn do not go to waste either. Shoot a woodchuck here that is digging up your yard ,toss him by the hedgerow and chances are he'll be gone by morning. Coyotes, turkey vultures just love them.
 Jewels49
Joined: 4/20/2009
Msg: 121
Why are some people against hunting?
Posted: 7/24/2009 8:39:33 AM

Considering a wider issue - the land required to raise animals for meat - one acre will support one cow/maybe 2 or 3 sheep/goats - but would support 10 men in terms of grain production. Think about it.

I am…and then comes a “shoulder” of feral pigs and destroys everything planted. Your 10 men are now left without food. The number of feral pigs grows…what now? I think you have confused farming and hunting.


Do you imagine your 'prey' actually 'feels' any different to you and I?

I cannot apply my own feelings to that of an animal. Let me illustrate my point with this example: Salt Water Crocodiles: "Salties" (the nickname Australians give them) This animal is so aggressive that they will even attack boats and canoes. It's also known to leap from the water to attack unaware wanderers along the shore. It has been known to circle inland for a sneak-attack, using the element of surprise combined with brute strength. Their soul motivation is FOOD. They are also territorial. There is only one predator to this animal - man. If commercially we are taking much of their food source, Barramundi (fish), which is netted in large proportions from feeder creeks. These opportunistic animals then attack (with great efficiency) any animal within its range, including kangaroos, wild boar, dingos, goannas, birds, domestic livestock, pets, water buffalo, sharks, and even humans, among other large animals as well. Domestic cattle, horses, and water buffalo. These animals are not tamable. Nor do they FEEL as I do. They work on INSTINCT. What is your answer when numbers get out of hand?



The fact is - it is generally a lot of over-excited guys who don't care/think - are probably incapable of doing so or they wouldn't do it in the first place.


Perhaps one of the oldest activities on the face of the planet is hunting. The history of hunting, as a result, is also one of the most diverse. Hunting for food has always been something that human kind has had to do, dating back to the beginning of any civilizations known to man. This is a fact.


Nature keeps its own 'balance' generally - has done for millions of years. We think we know better and have completely disrupted our ecological system. We may not survive the consequences of our 'lack of thought' and that would be a fitting epitaph.


We are part of nature. It is not nature versus man. On a primal level we are animals.
We have disrupted our planet, by clearing land for housing, destroying habitat, introduction of different species, to lands with fragile natives. All have affected the eco system.

Food for mankind is high on the list of priorities for a species with expanding numbers.

Commercial farming of animals is less than ok, and more exposure to these practices is slowly creating awareness. People need to be conscious of tortured, toxic, “cheap meat” market that they have allowed to develop through ignorance. I would wager a guess, if most people had to hunt and kill their food, that there would be a lot more vegetarians.

Hunters take a small portion of the “meat market” they also serve a greater purpose by culling numbers of animals that would ultimately starve due to overpopulation and lack of FOOD, and lowering numbers of feral animals that carry potential deadly disease and destroy native habit and natives. By way of responsible hunting, money is put back into conservation programs, by the purchase of licenses. Control is governed by bagging limits and monitored with harsher penalties than ever in the history of hunting. By these measures we have collectively tried to re-dress the imbalance.

The system is not perfect, but awareness of the issues, and continued dialogue, between all “stakeholders” will help to develop better practices for animal management.
 Jewels49
Joined: 4/20/2009
Msg: 122
Their soul motivation is FOOD
Posted: 7/24/2009 10:13:43 PM

The origin of soul food.


You did make me laugh..

I stand corrected.
 JWG86
Joined: 7/5/2008
Msg: 123
Their soul motivation is FOOD
Posted: 7/24/2009 10:15:04 PM
I know plenty of overweight vegetarians. A girl I dated a while back was over 200# and a vegetarian That was almost as light as she had ever been as well.

_____________

No, I KNOW she was a vegetarian. She practically lived with me.
 Jewels49
Joined: 4/20/2009
Msg: 124
Why are some people against hunting?
Posted: 7/30/2009 1:49:54 AM

I have to smile at the concept of feral pigs ............ exactly where do they exist?


Feral pigs are no "abstract idea", they exist both here in Australia as they do in the United States. Smile all you like, the facts are the facts. Ever seen a lamb being taken by one? or the amount of devistation to natural habitat they create and I assure you the "concept" will take on new meaning..
Please don't presume to Know, when clearly you have NO IDEA


Captain Cook presented some pigs to the Maori and released others during his second and third voyages to New Zealand during 1773–1777. The first official introduction to Australia was with the first fleet in 1788. Feral pigs are habitat generalists and have colonised subalpine grasslands and forests, dry woodlands, tropical rainforests, semi-arid and monsoonal floodplains, swamps and other wetlands in many parts of the Northern Territory, Queensland, New South Wales, and other states and territories. Their distribution in inland or seasonally dry areas of Australia is restricted to the vicinity of watercourses and their associated floodplains. In the more forest-covered parts of eastern Australia and south-west Western Australia, populations are still spreading, often through deliberate or accidental releases. In New Zealand, feral pigs are also distributed throughout the North and South Islands where there is suitable habitat.
Once established, colonies of feral pigs build up rapidly in many areas. Estimates of population size vary between 3.5 million and 23.5 million, inhabiting 38% of Australia, but their distribution and abundance can vary markedly from year to year according to environmental conditions.

BIOLOGY
The biology and ecology of feral pigs are two of the major reasons why they are such an important and successful vertebrate pest in Australia. Their large robust bodies, snouts specially developed for rooting up the ground, omnivorous diet and adaptive activity patterns allow them to live in a wide range of habitats. Adult males usually weigh between 75 and 115 kilograms and sows 75 kilograms, although the weight varies with the quality of the habitat. In cooler and wetter areas feral pigs can reach 175 kilograms while boars over 200 kilograms are regularly caught in New Zealand. Feral pigs will breed continuously if there is sufficient, high quality food but in most areas they are seasonal breeders. For example, in the NSW highlands, young are mainly born in summer and autumn whereas under suitable conditions they breed all year on the flood plains of western NSW.
Sows breed at about 25 to 30 kilograms, which they reach at about seven to 12 months, with an average litter of six. Two litters a year are possible in good conditions although one litter a year is more common. Feral pigs have a reproductive rate that is closer to rabbits than other large herbivores and, potentially, populations can increase by 86% a year. Hence feral pigs can quickly recover from the impact of management or drought.
Feral pigs are opportunistic omnivores that prefer green vegetation, a wide variety of animal material, fruits and grain. Other foods include underground, starch-rich plant material such as roots and bulbs. They will also take fungi, earthworms, snails, eggs of ground nesting birds, turtle eggs, lambs and carrion. Like domestic pigs, feral pigs need a diet high in protein (more than 15%) in order to breed and raise their young.

DAMAGE
Feral pigs cause agricultural damage through predation of newborn lambs, reduction in crop yields, damage to fences and water sources, and competition with stock for feed by consuming or damaging pasture. They also are considered a major threat to stock as a potential carrier of exotic diseases, with the major concern being their role as a reservoir for Foot-And-Mouth Disease should it ever become established in Australia or New Zealand. However, they are also an economic resource for game meat, an industry that is worth approximately $20 million a year.
While feral pigs are also considered an environmental pest. Major damage is to habitat degradation through selective feeding, trampling and rooting for underground parts of plants and invertebrates, as well as predation on, competition with, or disturbance of a range of animals. The most obvious perceived environmental damage by feral pigs is based on their rooting up of soils, grasslands or forest litter, particularly along drainage lines, moist gullies and around swamps and lagoons, or after rain, when the ground is softer.
 Jewels49
Joined: 4/20/2009
Msg: 125
Why are some people against hunting?
Posted: 7/30/2009 2:11:43 AM

I have to smile at the concept of feral pigs ............ exactly where do they exist?


Your showing your ignorance now....Get out much?

Goulding, M.J. (2001) Wild boar signs in southern England. British Wildlife 13 (1) 38-41.

Goulding, M.J. (2003) Investigation of free-living wild boar (Sus scrofa) in southern England. DPhil thesis, University of Sussex .

Goulding, M.J. (2004) Wild Boar: what should DEFRA do? ECOS, 25, 34-38.

Goulding, M.J., (2005) Wild Boar. Biological Sciences Review, 17, (4) 9-11.

Goulding, M.J. (2008) The wild boar action plan - shooting in the dark? ECOS, 29, 95-100.

Goulding, M.J. & Roper, T.J. (2002) Press responses to the presence of free-living wild boar Sus scrofa in southern England. Mammal Review 32 (4)272-282.

Goulding, M.J., Roper, T.J., Smith G.C.& Baker, S.J. (2003): Presence of free-living wild boar Sus scrofa in southern England. - Wildl. Biol. 9 (Suppl. 1): 15-20.

Goulding, M.J., Smith, G. & Baker, S.J. (1998) Current status and potential impact of wild boar in southern England: A risk assessment. Report to Central Science Laboratory.

Howells O. and Edwards-Jones G. (1997) A feasibility study of reintroducing wild Boar Sus scrofa to Scotland: Are existing woodlands large enough to support a minimum viable population Biological Conservation 81 77-89

Leaper R., Massei G., Gorman M.L. and Aspinall R. (1999) The feasibility of re-introducing wild boar (Sus scrofa) to Scotland. Mammal Review 29 (4) 239-259

Morris P.A. (1986) An introduction to reintroductions. Mammal Review 16 (2) 49-52

Sims N. (2006) DPhil thesis, University of Sussex .

Wilson C.J. (2003) Distribution and status of feral wild boar Sus scrofa in Dorset, southern England. Mammal Review 33 (3-4) 302-307

Wilson C.J. (2004) Rooting damage to farmland in Dorset, southern England, caused by feral wild boar (Sus scrofa). Mammal Review 34 (4) 331-335
 Jewels49
Joined: 4/20/2009
Msg: 126
Why are some people against hunting?
Posted: 7/30/2009 5:44:59 PM
For all those who have weighed in on the hunting debate I ask the following questions if you are not Vegan. Do you wear leather?. Leather shoes, bags, saddles for horses, wallets?. Eat meat? Feed your pets meat? You are all consumers supporting an industry that kills animals. This is FAR from humane. Ever been to a slaughterhouse? Ever seen the way animals are strung up still alive and kicking to be killed?..You all have blood on your hands for allowing this "cheap meat" market to exist . Most hunters eat what they take, buy licenses, abide by the bag limits set or are trying to make a difference by control of FERAL pests. I refer here to REAL hunters and not the cowboys that make up a small percentage of the hunting community and give us all a bad name. What’s your contribution to the solution? Do you know the issues not just think you do? Do you feel better about allowing someone else to do the dirty work, killing without conscience, so you can enjoy the fruits? How can you sit in judgement of those willing to do it for themselves to feed their families? Or that have a love of natural habitat and don’t want it to be destroyed by pests, and are prepared to do something. I find it hypocritical that so many of you would allow the shocking practices that exist in slaughter houses yet crucify hunters. What ever makes you sleep better at night.


Just for the record I am against trophy hunting. I see no "just" purpose for doing so.
 jadegreen
Joined: 2/3/2006
Msg: 127
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History
Why are some people against hunting?
Posted: 7/30/2009 5:55:31 PM
I guess vegetarians are dead set agaist it, but I think it is a skill that a lot of men instinctively do not want to lose. Some ladies actually hunt as well (I personally do not) Survival is supposed to be a big instinct in us. I live in a state with decent wildlife population and so lots of hunting takes place during hunting season. Perhaps the ones that are so against it have not been exposed to true huntermen that are actually of the noble nature and they actually hunt to maintain the skills involved and that do not kill for the sheer sport. Perhaps some are intimidated by this simply because they have not been exposed to it.

I do like to fish...but that's it for me...lol...I leave hunting to the men! I like to cook...lol
 Jewels49
Joined: 4/20/2009
Msg: 128
Why are some people against hunting?
Posted: 7/30/2009 9:39:33 PM

If I bought it second-hand. It's more environmentally friendly to purchase second-hand clothing (whether it's produced from animal byproducts or not) than it is to have a factory produce it new.


If your against it, why wear it?...recycled or not.


This "cheap market" produces these byproducts regardless of whether I support it or not.

It's a market. Don't kid yourself it's not consumer driven. No one buys, No market it's that simple.


(You are all consumers supporting an industry that kills animals.)Everyone is.
Such industries are ingrained in our lives.

Never a truer word spoken.


Might want to consider how the human population has affected natural habbitats and environmental stability with its practices before making such statements.

Might want to read ALL my messages in this thread BEFORE you tell me what I stand for. In fact do yourself a favour and read the thread..
Here..I'll even quote myself..

We are part of nature. It is not nature versus man. On a primal level we are animals.
We have disrupted our planet, by clearing land for housing, destroying habitat, introduction of different species, to lands with fragile natives. All have affected the eco system.




 kuddlekitty
Joined: 12/30/2007
Msg: 129
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History
Why are some people against hunting?
Posted: 7/31/2009 9:54:35 AM
I detest hunting. I remember seeing a documentary on China where they showed, graphically, how they slaughtered dogs and cats, and it was beyond heart-wrenching. Why do they do it? To take the fur off and produce/sell cat/dog stuffed animals!
To shoot, knife, strangle, hook, boil any animal, to my mind, is barbaric.
I don't think we have the right, just as I don't think we have the right to take human lives...unless...in all cases...it's in self-defense.
These are living, breathing, feeling creatures with LIVES...and if they happen to stumble upon a hunter's path they are murdered. All the philosophizing in the world doesn't change that fact.
 scottishexile2008
Joined: 6/29/2008
Msg: 130
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History
Why are some people against hunting?
Posted: 7/31/2009 11:10:03 AM
hunting is really for spineless peopoe becasue if you had balls you would hunt something that would fire back ...all those macho so called peopoe are just using hunting to let off steam becasue their wives are not giving them any tang ....
i think hunters really need to be shot in the ass to appreciate what it is ....i find thgem ignorants and not giving a rats ass ....hunting is not a skill at all its a one sided game ........
 wisguyingb
Joined: 1/5/2008
Msg: 131
Why are some people against hunting?
Posted: 7/31/2009 11:24:25 AM
I am a hunter and a fisherman for the record. But would any of you anti hunters have the nerve to tell the Native Americans they are "ignorant" and "spineless" because they hunt and gather on their reservation lands? Or is it just easier to just sum up all hunters as rednecks?

Anyone who hates hunters and hunting and eats meat is a huge hypocrite. Your basically saying that it's wrong to go and hunt your own meat but it's ok to support factory farms in which many of the animals are very sick, very poorly treated, and worse yet....killed....for food! It's true! The ranchers just walk those cattle into a truck and ship them to the slaughter house!! Crazy!! Where's the challenge in that? Oh those ranchers are cowards. Cowards I tell you!!

I think some of the antibiotics that are put in the animal feed are getting to your brains.

Your also a hypocrite if you own a leather jacket, leather belt, leather shoes, have leather seats in your car, or use any product that contains a animal by product in it. I would say the same applies to you if you use medicine that was tested on animals or contains a animal by product inside of it.

So what do you "Compassionate Anti hunters" feed your kitties and doggies? Does alpo now offer the vegan menu for your puppy and kitty?

I would hope that you were not supporting the pointless animal slaughter by buying dog and cat food that has murdered animals in it!
 kuddlekitty
Joined: 12/30/2007
Msg: 132
view profile
History
Why are some people against hunting?
Posted: 7/31/2009 12:53:11 PM
message 443...methinks thou dost protest too much!
calm down...

I can only speak for myself; I do not eat meat; I am a vegetarian, I do not wear leather, my profile pic is a faux vest... I do what I can.

Your very last sentence..."buying dog and cat food that has murdered animals in it!" is difficult to even read...because the bottom line is that is horrendous to think about.

I have explored and found out there are meatless/vegan cat/dog food...and will probably look into it for my cat. (I don't have a dog; for anyone looking at my profile it was just a dog I met that day...just in case there are any "challenges" to my response!)

Since you are not living the life of someone against cruelty to animals...don't assume he/she is a hypocrite. Some take it to the extreme, others do what they think are reasonable for them by perhaps not wearing leather/fur or not eating meat. Change comes slow...and in little steps. But if each person decided they couldn't make a difference, then no one would do anything about any issue.

People can cut/paste/cite/reiterate statistics, opinions, facts, opposing ideas. It doesn't matter. This thread is asking a question: Why are some people against hunting...If you don't like the answers from people WHO ARE AGAINST HUNTING WHICH THE QUESTION ASKS...don't read the thread.

And pet an animal; they give unconditional love.
 kuddlekitty
Joined: 12/30/2007
Msg: 133
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Why are some people against hunting?
Posted: 7/31/2009 3:43:36 PM
Message 449: "At least a hunter deals with an animal in its own natural element. Where the animals instincts and innate survival skills put the odds in the animals favor."

Really? You think a deer casually sauntering or sprinting across his habitat has a fighting chance against an unexpected blast from a rifle or a bow that rips into him or whatever method of murderous choice one chooses to "engage" the animal?

"How noble is it to consume a beast that was raised in fenced in areas, trucked to a processing plant, and then killed with a blow to the head?"

It's not. It's disgusting.

"Our ancestors worked too hard to get to the top of the food chain for me to be concerned about consuming other animals. However, I do insist that they be treated as humanely as possible in the process."

You don't see the paradox in that statement? Basically, I don't give a freak if we kill em...just do it "humanely." Since when was killing humane?

It shouldn't be a debate about which method of slaughtering an innocent animal is "kinder. " I just don't think it is our right to decide which way we should take an innocent life. Ahhh, if animals could only speak.
 wisguyingb
Joined: 1/5/2008
Msg: 134
Why are some people against hunting?
Posted: 7/31/2009 3:57:46 PM
It's called the cycle of life.

Nature created some animals that consume only plant life, and some animals that only consume meat, and some animals that consume both.

It's just nature, and when we die we will be consumed as well.

(Unless your buried in one of those pointless airtight uselesss coffins. I think all coffins should be made of wood. )
 kuddlekitty
Joined: 12/30/2007
Msg: 135
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Why are some people against hunting?
Posted: 7/31/2009 4:07:12 PM
You would "guess" that I've never been deer hunting? I would assume if you'd read any of my posts here you wouldn't have to guess. I'll repeat what I think. IT'S BARBARIC!

And, oh, it's difficult? Is that supposed to make the feat of actually slaughtering one more admirable. The rush of adrenaline, the thrill of the hunt, watching a beautiful animal collapse to its death.

No thanks. When I photograph nature it will be about the splendour, the beauty of nature and the animals that share this planet. I prefer to see them feed and nuzzle their young, to watch them sleep curled up together, watch a mother fight to save her babies. And then, when you witness that, you might realize you're killing living beings, though different than man, living, breathing right-to-exist on this planet creatures that unless they threaten...should be left alone to live out their natural lives.
 kuddlekitty
Joined: 12/30/2007
Msg: 136
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Why are some people against hunting?
Posted: 7/31/2009 4:28:29 PM
Humans do not "have" to eat meat to survive. That is proven. And while we can point to animals that kill other animals, we are "supposed" to be more evolved than them, supposedly put on a different level because of our ability to reason and have a conscience.

And I don't think we need to "humanize" them. I think we need to respect the fact that they are different from us...but that doesn't mean they don't have a right to walk the earth. And though, yes, things befall them, all the things you mention...things befall humans too. Should we shoot each other because, what the heck, we're going to get sick, or get murdered, or get old, or get attacked...

"It's about something bigger than that?" What would that be "prey" tell...

And, wow...the more I read what you wrote...you're thanking G-d and the animals...for what? So that you have food on your table? You can't get food on your table unless you slaughter an animal? Are we in the Flintstones? Quick! Someone tell me if I've been zapped into Fred and Wilma's time zone...

Or order me a brontosaurus burger, with ketchup.
 kuddlekitty
Joined: 12/30/2007
Msg: 137
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Why are some people against hunting?
Posted: 7/31/2009 5:09:00 PM
Actually, I became a vegetarian because the thought of eating a dead animal is repulsive to me, and yes, I do find it more "natural" to eat fruits, vegetables, grains, legumes...

Yes, conscience is a "relative" state of being. And everyone has their own to contend with. But it, as well as the ability to reason, does separate us from animals. You can reason your way to taking a life, or not.

I'm not justifying my choices to anyone. And I do not accept the reasons why people hunt. Again, this thread asked why some people were adverse to hunting.

Look at it with detachment? I cannot look at the taking of lives, and yes, especially those who do so for sport or food, with detachment. I wouldn't like who I am if I were able to do so.

Accept that nature itself is not inclined toward benevolence or compassion? Unfortunately, that is the case with many, and has been so since the beginning of time.
 kuddlekitty
Joined: 12/30/2007
Msg: 138
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Why are some people against hunting?
Posted: 7/31/2009 5:47:15 PM
Well first of all, I have an indoor cat and would not be able to witness her killing any animal either. She doesn't even kill bugs! If she sees the occasional one, she stares at it, runs around it, and meows. Maybe she takes after her mom.

I have seen outdoor cats go after birds, and I can't deal with it. It changes my opinion of cats in the moment...and then I realize...THEY DON'T KNOW ANY BETTER! We do!

As far as "evolution"...man has evolved from himself. All these years later, we do not have to resort to the hunt/prey killer instinct. It's a choice, not a necessity.

J in SD...just watched To Duck or Not to Duck on youtube...hilarious. But Fudd shoulda stayed down for the count!
 kuddlekitty
Joined: 12/30/2007
Msg: 139
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Why are some people against hunting?
Posted: 7/31/2009 11:16:41 PM
You missed my point about cats killing other animals. The few times I have witnessed outdoor cats do that it's beyond repulsed me...I LOVE cats...I love my cat like I would a child. With that said, in a moment of witnessing a feral cat tear a bird apart, I couldn't deal with the cat that moments ago I thought was so adorable. But then I realized, what I said in my previous post, THEY DON'T KNOW ANY BETTER! And that is the redeeming quality. They do it out of animal instinct; they don't have the ability to contemplate and make a conscious decision of whether they are destroying a life.
THAT is what sets humans apart.
It's not a "way of life" for a deer to fall to its death after being shot. It IS barbaric. What justification can there be for killing an animal that hasn't harmed you so you can have meat in your freezer.
And I'm debating this with "emotions on my sleeve?" This isn't a scientific thread; it's not about the merits or statistics or eco debates of hunting.
It was a simple question, "Why Are Some People Against Hunting." For most of the people that are against it, it is emotional. It's based on protecting the animals.
I'm glad that your prey makes it difficult for you and others. But then again, hunters probably wouldn't enjoy it as much if there were no challenge. Sorta like those creepy stories you hear about murderers who like to see their victims put up a fight before they kill em...
And it's great that you love your dog and cat...however, if you lived in China, they'd be food too. Or a toy. Would the person who rationalized that make you feel any better?
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 140
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Why are some people against hunting?
Posted: 8/1/2009 7:16:48 AM
We have all kinds of (way too many deer) in our protected metro parks here in Columbus, so they have professional hunters go in and "thin out" the populations and the meat goes to feed the homeless.

I think I heard that they try to focus on taking out the weaker animals and leave the stronger ones, but to do that, I believe one would have to observe the herds for a while ... don't know if that's what's really going on.

I'm becoming less and less a meat eater ... so if they got rid of all meat in the supermarkets, I doubt that I'd be too upset.

I don't think I'd enjoy spending time with someone who gets "pleasure" out of killing defenseless wild animals ... even if they are eating what they kill.

They brought in some hawks to Columbus, Ohio years ago ... to keep down the pigeon population downtown. At that time, we lived close to the downtown area. I remember my children were playing in our family room one day and suddenly called me to the window to see that "a big bird was killing another bird in our backyard".

It was actually quite a rare siting of the hawks at work. My children wanted to scare it away but I encouraged them to let the hawk stay. I told them it was doing it's job ... that's why it was brought to Columbus. I also told them that if they were disgusted by what it was doing ... just to go away from the window.

I think the hawks were nesting on some of the tall buildings downtown and they even had cameras mounted so that we could watch the babies hatching and being raised.
 raxarsr
Joined: 7/10/2008
Msg: 141
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Why are some people against hunting?
Posted: 8/1/2009 11:39:27 AM
fishing isnt like hunting....your talking about comercial fishing compared to sport hunting........theres a huge differance

as a sportsman, i'm willing to wager i did more to support wildlife conservation on the day i bought my hunting and fishing licenses than 95% of the people on this thread argueing against hunting.
the simple truth is....todays modern sportsmen do more every year to conserve wildlife and wildlands that all the anti groups in the world
 raxarsr
Joined: 7/10/2008
Msg: 142
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Why are some people against hunting?
Posted: 8/1/2009 3:57:06 PM
actually...overall.deer numbers are down in pa.way down in some places.......but there are areas where there are WAY too many...........those are the places where you cant hunt......prime example...around the king ranch in chester county.lots and lots od deer.very limited access.

as far as the predators goes....they werent over hunted......most arent used for food....nor fur.......no market.......no one hunts them........however.....wolves soon learned that domestic livestock was jst as good eating and a lot easier to catch.
the preditors were decimated because you couldnt raise livestock with them around.
similarly..deer have discovered that crops are good eating and a lot easier to find..hencethe reason farmers dont really like deer.

another example..several years ago when the snow geese really started useing south east pa as a stop over....lots of farmers didnt allow hunting for them....[i have one particular guy in mind].we asked permission several times..he always said no..he enjoyed seeing them.........well.......the really big flocks moved in.............in 3 days time.....they destroyed.completely....2 20 acre fields of winter wheat.................guess who now opens his arms to goose hunters?

people have got to quit giving animals human atributes.......yes.deer are beautiful......but during a hard winter when food is scarece..a mature doe will chase her fawns away from a food source and allow them to starve so she can live.
compared to a hunters bullet.nature is cruel.......very cruel.

for those of you who dont enjoy.or even like hunting....fine....then dont do it.maybe you like ballet.or opera..........2 things i personally abhore.....however.....i have yet even once tried to deny you your right to enjoy them.....so why are you picking on me?
why not put your efforts into stopping abortion?.......or child abuse?........or any of the hundreds of abuses against people?
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