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 DocElffington
Joined: 1/20/2009
Msg: 57
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Americans Are Spoiled: A Depression will do us good!Page 2 of 10    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10)
I'm waiting for Obama to put his money where his mouth is.

Everything else is just talk.
 GoneSailinBabe
Joined: 7/6/2008
Msg: 58
Americans Are Spoiled: A Depression will do us good!
Posted: 2/26/2009 7:44:46 PM
Surprisingly I agree.
Not with the statement about Obama, I was a delegate and knew he was our guy some time before he was known publicly, he also has family living a block from me....so we knew him when...

But I agree Americans are spoiled, greedy, and incapable of living within their means and unwilling to NOT have something if they can't afford it.

Those people have definitely earned what they get.

I have no debt, no mortgage and live well within my means. My trust funds are securely invested and not in stocks - haven't been for the last four years as it was very clear what was happening to our country YEARS ago!

Those who weren't so wise?
Well, again they've earned what happens to them.
Only wish I wasn't responsible for bailing their asses out.

That sucks.

My opinion? Corporal punishment.
We should be able to publically chastise and whip anyone who has been delinquent on their responsibilities and wants bailed out.

Do the crime do the time.

I'm financially responsible - they should have been also.
No excuses or justifications are allowed.
 EthericWhisper
Joined: 7/12/2008
Msg: 59
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History
Americans Are Spoiled: A Depression will do us good!
Posted: 2/26/2009 8:26:41 PM
We dug the hole.

We filled our McMansions with furniture we could not pay for , with a mortgage we could not afford, and drove a car so big the family could live in it. We kept the heat at 75 and the ac at 68 and burned 45 minutes of gasoline each way on our way to a job that could not support our credit card bills while we slurped up Starbucks rather than bring coffee from home.

Its easy to blame the banks , Bush, Obama, the big 3, or anyone else, but the truth is....we allowed this to happen, just as we are allowing the death of the planet and the oceans by laughing at sustainable consumption.

http://www.footprintnetwork.org/gfn_sub.php?content=overshoot

It is what it is.
 DocElffington
Joined: 1/20/2009
Msg: 60
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Americans Are Spoiled: A Depression will do us good!
Posted: 2/26/2009 8:49:33 PM
The only reason why anything is cheap right now, is because it's coming from China, or South American countries.

Free Trade has only hurt the U.S.

Yes, it gave a cheap products for a time.

But, ultimately it unemploys the consumer.

America needs Fair Trade.

We need to export our manufactured goods, not our manufacturing capabilities!
 GoneSailinBabe
Joined: 7/6/2008
Msg: 61
Americans Are Spoiled: A Depression will do us good!
Posted: 2/27/2009 4:45:27 AM

We filled our McMansions with furniture we could not pay for , with a mortgage we could not afford, and drove a car so big the family could live in it. We kept the heat at 75 and the ac at 68 and burned 45 minutes of gasoline each way on our way to a job that could not support our credit card bills while we slurped up Starbucks rather than bring coffee from home.


Hello? I did NONE of these things.
Why should I be responsible for those who did?

I learned plain and simply you work for what you make.
You buy what you can pay cash for, if you can't pay for it today then you don't need it.
Charging was never an option.
Bank loans were to purchase property and ONLY property.

And I learned those things from immigrants who came here and bought land. Thank God! Land, land, land. And it's been paid for by their sweat for generations.

But I still learned the same lessons and applied them in my lifestyle.
And I still taught my sons the same lessons.

Yes, we are blessed to have ancestors who invested wisely, and left us the land and the money from it.
Yes, we are blessed to have continued to invest it wisely - however we didn't live off it, it is entailed and not for us to sit on our asses and live affluently.
We all continue to work beyond retirement age.
Why?
Because it's priniples, it's morals, it's how we were taught to be adults.

Those who have lived life differently should be the ones who suffer the consequences of their bad choices.

Not the entire society as a whole.

Where's the reward in living right other than to be able to say "I'm okay"?
There's reward now to those who have cheated, defrauded the banks, and the people of this country.

Wow - that's a really great lesson for everyone.
Screw up, be greedy and we'll save your ass.
That's what makes kids into crack addicts.
Parents who indulge them, and let them off the hook, and bail them out.

Great plan.
 EthericWhisper
Joined: 7/12/2008
Msg: 62
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Americans Are Spoiled: A Depression will do us good!
Posted: 2/27/2009 5:49:05 AM
Re: Message 80. "We" all allowed it to happen by sitting back and watching, and not using our voices and other actions to stop it. You cannot be cut from societys herd to be saved, its gone too far. If there is no "bail out", you will suffer, unless that is you have developed a sustainable way of creating and/or delivering fuel/clothing/food/water/ medicine, etc to your family unit.
 nebula22
Joined: 8/14/2007
Msg: 63
Americans Are Spoiled: A Depression will do us good!
Posted: 2/27/2009 6:04:45 AM
I'm OK ,,, Everything I have is paid for.
I raised my family while living within my means..
I own my home which is also an old commercial business.
I can open my place back up as a restaurant, bar, store , or any number of businesses.
I can do any repairs on my home, cars or other machinery that breaks down.
I have a magnum air rifle that I can hunt with if necessary. it's very quiet.
I was sure to move to where there is plenty of water, a fairly mild environment, and game that could be hunted for food.
I also did my research and know where gold is around here and know how to get it and how to process it as well.

I will be alright.
I was listening when my elders talked about the great depression.
 AnglFlynToCloseToGround
Joined: 4/16/2008
Msg: 64
Americans Are Spoiled: A Depression will do us good!
Posted: 2/27/2009 6:40:06 AM
THIS IS A FACT

America is/was a wonderful nation because unlike other nations we have/had a middle class ...

We were warned YEARS ago that the middle class was vanashing .... Then we were warned that most of the middle class was living off of plastic and plain credit ... Then cities like L.A. have no middle class ...

This is because the GREEDY CEOs and all of the rest of them ONLY cared about the money and THEIR pockets ...

IT IS BECOMING LIKE A 3RD WORLD COUNTRY RIGHT HERE IN AMERICA ....

LOOK ON THE NEWS ...

It DONT matter HOW we got here ...

It DONT matter if we even DESERVE this ...

What "DOES MATTER" is are we going to STOP this SH*T ...

AnglFlyn

ps. please dont give me that "How can we" crap cause this nation/"US the people" has REPEATEDLY STOPED MANY THINGS over the last 200 years witch is another reason we was/are a great nation ... throw in our freedom and we are a GREAT NATION ...
 *Just Jim*
Joined: 7/6/2007
Msg: 66
Americans Are Spoiled: A Depression will do us good!
Posted: 2/27/2009 6:58:21 AM

Because it's principles, it's morals, it's how we were taught to be adults.

Those who have lived life differently should be the ones who suffer the consequences of their bad choices.

Not the entire society as a whole.


True........ and now there is many to blame in how a society,businesses,government,etc, can function without living within there means.

Greed has no conscious or l0gic and everyone was in on the take,

without knowing or caring what was down the road, as now we see the effects of it.


Bad loans to folks who did not qualify,bad paper making speculation on the housing market,etc.
The big 3 auto industries who claimed there is no market for hybrids[three years ago] or practical cars, and only think SUV's and trucks is what we need cuz it's a bigger profit for them. Duh!

Yet Japan builds cars in which we really need and want and lead the market here and else where.

And on and on and on.
 AnglFlynToCloseToGround
Joined: 4/16/2008
Msg: 69
Americans Are Spoiled: A Depression will do us good!
Posted: 2/27/2009 9:40:40 AM
Its NOT JUST the 3 auto makers ... Its 90% of any huge company that is screwing ppl over with their GREED ...

Im sorry but we have a HUGE population and its going to take a big government to manage it ...

A goverment that WORKS for the PEOPLE that is ...

You cant have a country this SIZE with this many MILLIONS of people and only have a few dozen ppl watching over it ...

That would be like taking a class of 1000 kids and putting 1 teacher to care for them ...

Take them out to the playground and let them runnnnnnn EVERYWHERE ... ...

Ok kids lets ALL take a nap ... ...

Hey that would work ... ...

AnglFlyn

Ok start firing at me for saying this ... Im taking a nap first ... ...
 AnglFlynToCloseToGround
Joined: 4/16/2008
Msg: 70
Americans Are Spoiled: A Depression will do us good!
Posted: 2/27/2009 9:55:40 AM
Hold on ... before I nap ... I have to say this ...

If we dont need a goverment to watch over and take care of us then ...
HOW IN THE Fn H*LL DID WE LET THIS SH*T HAPPEN ??? ...

Like I said we just need one that WORKS FOR US ...

I rest my case ...

AnglFLyn
 nebula22
Joined: 8/14/2007
Msg: 71
Americans Are Spoiled: A Depression will do us good!
Posted: 2/27/2009 11:32:28 AM
That word is FEAR ,,, Yes , exactly.!!! We have been made to FEAR our government.

We have had NO SAY in our government or the Laws passed by OUR GOVERNMENT !

They WAISTED OUR MONEY !
We have been powerless to stop them from writing themselves into LAW.

NOW THEY HAVE STOLLEN OUR MONEY TOO !!

But , it was up to US to live in such a way as to be able to survive these back stabbing people in CONGRESS.

The SUPREME COURT WORKS FOR BIG BUSINESS TOO...
 *Just Jim*
Joined: 7/6/2007
Msg: 76
Americans Are Spoiled: A Depression will do us good!
Posted: 2/27/2009 2:52:46 PM

How hard is that to grasp for some of you? Fairlyland and reality are two different things here. Nobody was out there shoving SUV's in anyone's driveway. How hard is that to grasp for some of you? Fairyland and reality are two different things here. Nobody was out there shoving SUV's in anyone's driveway.


I agree with you in that one. Reality is in the what you truly need, " in the need zone" and fairyland is in what you only want," in the 'now zone".


It's the way the free market system works which obviously to me, many of you don't have a clue about.


Yes,I agree with you again and many of us understand this,"free market system" whether

it be practical things for the consumer in what is needed or still free market system to sell is

just a play on ones emotions or ego,a deception in what you should buy and want to have.

Yup,I get the message and if I live within my means hopefully I'll stay out of the "Poor House.
 rtrtrtrtyyyuu
Joined: 2/21/2009
Msg: 79
Americans Are Spoiled: A Depression will do us good!
Posted: 2/27/2009 10:40:48 PM
Unfortunately, more taxes for healthcare and education are just going to load us up with more debt.

I respect your opinion, but I'm going to agree to disagree. Corporations aren't the problem, the problems are the conditions that made them powerful in the first place. Here it is, government and corporations sealing the seal and keeping us in line.

The only way I see out of this is to change America back to what made it great, a free market. This way, corporations are FORCED to compete.

Besides that, you're right! We should pay! The ones that REALLY should pay are the people that caused all these financial messes.
 wisguyingb
Joined: 1/5/2008
Msg: 82
Americans Are Spoiled: A Depression will do us good!
Posted: 2/28/2009 2:12:51 AM
--Regarding the quote from message 107--

Can anyone give a positive example of Big Government?

Only negatives come to my mind

--Rome

--English Empire

--Soviet Union

--Nazi Germany

--Fascist Italy

--Modern day North Korea

--Communist China

--Fascist Japan

--Modern day Venezuela

--Modern day Iran

--Saddam's Iraq

etc, etc, etc....

If big Government is so great then well move to a nation that already has giant Government...lol

Why would big government in America work?

Big Government only works for itself. The people are her subjects. The idea of America is that Government works for the people. Our government needs only to uphold the Constitution and let the States govern themselves for the most part. And histroy is showing us that the Fed's cant even do that. Just think what it would be like if we super size it.

The free market creates competition to make products that the consumer desires. That's why you have good products that the consumer desires in a free market. In socialism or "central planning" you don't have that same competition since the government specifies what is to be made and thus the products are not as good, well made or desired as much.

Perfect example is the Central Planning of the Soviet Union. Look at their auto market when they were in power. The consumer did not have much to choose from. But in America we have a whole lineup to choose from. Look at the Soviets/Soviet Bloc nations clothing industry. They wanted Western clothing very much and the same goes for western music. Just about every product that came out of the old Soviet system was junk. Including their military equipment. But yet their system was sold off to their people as being Grand.

I can just see the great lineup of cars/trucks that a nationalized USA auto industry will be putting out.......Will there be SUV's? Sports cars? Or perhaps just what the Government thinks her people need. I'll start buying Toyota pickup trucks from then on. Cuz more then likely a nationalized auto industry won't provide me with what I what.
 SAguy_06
Joined: 12/29/2005
Msg: 86
Americans Are Spoiled: A Depression will do us good!
Posted: 2/28/2009 7:40:20 AM
You dont have to be a shareholder in a company to effect change...we can vote with our dollars. and we do everyday.
 DocElffington
Joined: 1/20/2009
Msg: 87
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History
Americans Are Spoiled: A Depression will do us good!
Posted: 2/28/2009 10:57:41 AM

Can anyone give a positive example of Big Government?


Hell, can anyone give an example of an existing GOOD government?

Obviously, a good government would be one where it's people aren't complaining about it...and not out of fear of reprisals either.

The government of the Roman Empire was so great, that it was part and parcel to it's fall!

The various governments throughout history had great "ASPECTS" about them. But they also had negative attributes too.
We romaticize Alexander the Great. But he could also be viewed as a Hitler! He was invading other countries and pushing his own agenda. Yet, we choose to think that his agenda was a noble one. Why?


"He who wins the wars, writes the history books."
 mascot1
Joined: 5/3/2008
Msg: 89
Americans Are Spoiled: A Depression will do us good!
Posted: 2/28/2009 5:17:50 PM
This is off topic from what all of you were saying previously, but its worth that fleeting thought: A woman I was talking to told me that "the sales of alcohol have increased, I guess people just want to 'deal with it (the stress of the economy)' with alcohol" However, I pointed out that the sales may not have increased as much as you just notice those sales more because sales of other products are down. It just shows how many people are reliant upon alcohol for one need or another.
 Twilightslove
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 91
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Americans Are Spoiled: A Depression will do us good!
Posted: 2/28/2009 7:26:08 PM
George Carlin, such an intelligent person. I really miss his humor.
 Twilightslove
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 97
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Americans Are Spoiled: A Depression will do us good!
Posted: 3/1/2009 6:48:12 AM

In the business I'm in, I had to make SACRIFICES unlike the whiners here.


Jim, there are plenty of people out there making many, many sacrifices each day that you could not even begin to understand.


One year I worked 350 days.HAVE YOU EVER DONE THAT?


Yes, there are plenty of people working for their families who have had to work extremely long days to make it work out so that the company would remain successful. There are also plenty of low income workers who work two to three jobs without needed sleep, nutrition, health care, family time, or financial back ups if something were to go wrong. Many of these lower paid people DO NOT believe in government help yet they will probably not live as long as many other people because their lives are way too hard.


I've had to clean up feces and vomit after people. HAVE YOU EVER DONE THAT?


There are those who do some pretty nasty jobs for much less money than you probably make doing such things. I bet they wish they had your compensation.



I don't have weekends off, my nights aren't free and I have no personal life.


That would be like all the people I have met who deal with on-call duties. Their life is never their life as they are always on-call. Again, for much less compensation than you.



Yet I will admit I get paid probably a hell of lot more than you do but I also do the work of 2 and sometimes 3 people as well.


Plenty of people who do the job of 2 or 3 workers who never seem to get the job recognition that they deserve or the salaries to go along with their hard efforts.


Unlike you, I'm willing to give up certain things because I know that I have to or I'll make less money working elsewhere.


You have not written the book in how to give up your free time to make certain that things go right and get done. They would just be happy to see a bit more gratitude and money for their efforts.


That's the difference between you and me and why you are where you are at.


You have a leg up on him and most people Jim. You work for your family and they compensate you well. Most people recognize that they will never have such advantages as you have so they have chosen to do the work they are actually paid for and not the work of 2 to 3 people for less money.


Since when did the concept of knocking down the wealthy in this country not at the benefit the poor, but to make government more powerful become the norm?


I have a feeling that you are not in the upper 1% and so you do not fall into the category of wealthy that deserve to be knocked down a tad yet you are defending them as if you feel you are there. The very wealthy are given EXTREME tax shelters and often pay far less than they should in taxes if any taxes at all.


The government won't prop you or anyone else at the expense of the wealthy and you are foolish to think they will.


I agree with this statement. The government is not interested in helping the people. They are simply interested in keeping the people in line.


Instead of thinking in terms of the wealthy taking something from you, why don't you comprehend that those people who are at the bottom are there because the government keeps them there. They have no incentive to pick themselves up because they know government is going to send them that check each month.


I agree partially with this. The government programs are designed in a manner that keeps people who are at the bottom in poverty and YES many people in poverty feel so downtrodden about their fate that they give up trying to get out BUT many others fight to get out of a system that is built to keep them defeated. You CANNOT live on welfare and the system is NOT easy to maneuver or manipulate (you would really have to be pretty intelligent to understand the concepts of this system to manipulate it or have a minority advantage of one sort or another). The system is built in such a manner that MANY do not qualify who should have qualified. Often the very system that is suppose to help causes such undue stress, time, and havoc on the individual that they have no time for job hunts, no way to feed their family, no way to get from point a to point b. You can be almost totally broke, lose your job and not qualify for employment benefits yet be disqualified for food stamps simply because you and your wife have two cars (never mind the fact that the types of work you both do negates that you need those two cars to do the jobs) The system will tell you to sell one of them if you wish to receive food stamps at a future date. You go in looking for work at their employment agency and notice a large majority of people being offered continuing type education to get a better job so you ask about the program and are told that you are NOT qualified to receive it because you are not the same (you fill in the blanks). Yes, people who have immigrated are being college educated but you do not qualify. You make more than $200. per month or your family member does..........forget Medicaid even if you have cancer.........you DO NOT qualify because your child has an income and it is more than the $200. per month so that disqualifies you.


Corporate America didn't put them there, LIBERALISM did and their so called COMPASSION.They think certain people are inept and doing anything for themselves but all they are doing is feeding a LIE perpetuated on the masses at the cost of the successful. And that is SICK.


This has nothing to do with liberalism and more to do with getting rid of the bottom of society in a shady manner. If you do not give a person a pole to go along with that bait they have less chance of being able to catch any real fish and thereby they will eventually starve, freeze, or die from lack of care and lack of opportunity. I disagree that corporate America has nothing to do with this at all. I've seen a simple application go from simple to a interrogation from the 70's to now and now they are doing psychological testing on their applicants for minor work situations. It is apparent it is to keep the lower class low.


GIVE ME JUST ONE EXAMPLE OF LIBERAL POLICIES THAT ARE SUCCESSFUL AND HAVE HELPED PEOPLE OUT OF POVERTY. YOU WON'T FIND ONE BECAUSE THE LIBERAL FRAME OF MIND IS THAT THOSE PEOPLE ARE INCAPABLE OF GETTING OUT OF IT SO THEY MUST BECOME THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE STATE FOREVER.


At one time, I like you now believed that there were truly conservative politicians and liberal politicians. That time has passed and I know better now. The government is like our brain....there is a left side and a right side but in the end they are still one brain determining the lives of the masses. It's all a big act and they are the actors. People buy into what they say and then they do as they please.

George Carlin has it right.
 wisguyingb
Joined: 1/5/2008
Msg: 105
Americans Are Spoiled: A Depression will do us good!
Posted: 3/3/2009 6:00:01 AM
Nobody sums up what is happening right now better then Thomas Jefferson......

"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not."

"If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their money, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around [the banks], will deprive the people of their property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered."


Isn’t this clearly happening today, folks?

(The private banks he refers to would be the Federal Reserve which was created in 1913 and nobody know's who the member banks are)

 EvilLolli
Joined: 12/7/2008
Msg: 108
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History
Americans Are Spoiled: A Depression will do us good!
Posted: 3/3/2009 8:32:04 AM
Why shouldn't someone from outside the United States comment on the situation?
Honestly some times you are too close to a problem to see the solution. An outside view can give a different perspective to the problem(s) and possibly offer better solutions.
Maybe if our government and decision makers looked at what has worked and not worked in other successful free countries, we could come up w/ better solutions to the problem unstead of repeating the same old patterns. One of the definitions of insanity is repeating the same action and expecting different results. By this logic, it seems that some in our government are insane. The "trickle down" theory of economics has failed repeatedly, but they keep trying it in the hopes it will work.
Maybe if we looked at how other countries run their welfare, education, healthcare, and industrial government programs we could come up w/ a workable solution to how to fix things. Because throwing money at a problem does not guaruntee a solution. Revamping/re-organizing a failing structure often does.
 Twilightslove
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 112
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History
Americans Are Spoiled: A Depression will do us good!
Posted: 3/3/2009 10:12:35 AM
Perhaps they need to learn from Dave Ramsey:

The Truth About Credit Card Debt
Myth: Aren't there positive uses of a credit card? Like rebates and airline miles?
Truth: Responsible use of a credit card does not exist. Credit card debt is a major problem in America.

There is NO positive side to credit card use. You will spend more if you use credit cards. Even by paying the bills on time, you are not beating the system! But most families don't pay on time. The average family today carries $8,000 in credit card debt according to the American Bankers' Association.

credit cards, credit card debtNow let's talk about the rebates. If you were using a credit card at 5%, you would have had to have spent $80,000 to get $4,000 rebates on new cars that lost $6,000 of value when you drove them off the lot. That is not a good deal!

Cash vs. Credit Cards
When you pay cash, you can "feel" the money leaving you. This is not true with credit cards. Flipping a credit card up on a counter registers nothing emotionally. If you use credit cards instead of cash you will spend 12-18% more. This is money you could have saved.

If you "have to" use plastic, I suggest a debit card. I use them for travel and the occasional convenience of ordering something over the Internet or phone. Other than that, I use cash.

Personal finance is 80% behavior. You need to cut out habits that make you spend more. You do not build wealth with credit cards. Use common sense. When you play with a multi-billion dollar industry and you think you're going to win at their game, you are naive. You cannot beat the credit card companies.

http://www.daveramsey.com/the_truth_about/credit_card_debt_3478.html.cfm
 baker1972
Joined: 9/3/2008
Msg: 115
Americans Are Spoiled: A Depression will do us good!
Posted: 3/3/2009 4:35:25 PM
i guess i will get reamed out for this but i agree with rockenro. do i want people to loose their jobs no...but i think we as a society have completely forgotten what is important in life and have become an overly materialistic and rude. i've seen these shows like the "real housewives of new york" really? Are they really the real housewives of new york? i have been appauled by the season where they were down south and the woman spent $6000 on shoes! i worked as a social worker that would go into homes where the kids had no toys to play with or no beds and this woman is spending $6000 on shoes! ARe you kidding me?! i worked with a homeless family once who called me and said we don't have any food for the weekend and they were staying in a hotel and her kids were in jeopardy of being put into foster care so i got her some food at a food bank and then spent $25 of my own money to get her some food to get her through the weekend. do you know she cried because i bought her a six pack of soda because that was such a treat for them (everything worked out for this family and they were able to secure housing but that's not my point) and this real house wife spends $6000 on shoes!!!! Now you tell me who has their priorities out of order! ARe expensive shoes really that important in the scheme of things?
 jsphn11
Joined: 12/24/2007
Msg: 116
Americans Are Spoiled: A Depression will do us good!
Posted: 3/3/2009 6:51:40 PM

this real house wife spends $6000 on shoes!!!! Now you tell me who has their priorities out of order! ARe expensive shoes really that important in the scheme of things?

It's her money. Why can't she spend it the way she wants?
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