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 evilprincesstera
Joined: 1/13/2005
Msg: 61
Sex Before MarriagePage 12 of 12    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12)
only if he wears hot pink with silver rhinestones.

and a tiara
 evilprincesstera
Joined: 1/13/2005
Msg: 62
Sex Before Marriage
Posted: 1/20/2005 2:50:12 AM
and i like being called chickie-poo
 Fid Copya
Joined: 1/13/2005
Msg: 63
Sex Before Marriage
Posted: 1/20/2005 3:45:03 AM
Loukus, I like you. You're a fun guy.
 evilprincesstera
Joined: 1/13/2005
Msg: 64
Sex Before Marriage
Posted: 1/20/2005 3:47:46 AM
you beat me to it.

curses!
 easytag
Joined: 7/15/2003
Msg: 65
Sex Before Marriage
Posted: 1/20/2005 10:49:20 AM
---Sorry, I should have put this here, rather than start a new thread----


**My personal opinion on this is based on what I’ve seen from my friends and from personal experience, so take it for what it’s worth.**

Rather than argue the legitimacy of the Bible and the principles it’s sets forth (which generally leads to arguments which go no where), I will argue the possible logic behind it. In no way do I pretend to know the exact reasoning behind any of God’s commands, just the POSSIBLE reasoning, at least as I see it.

First of all, and I doubt many people will disagree, that a relationship with someone, especially someone you intend to marry, should revolve around something besides sex. How well you get along, whether or not they share the same values you do, whether or not they will be a good parent, etc. are things most people should look for. But often, probably too often, relationships survive only b/c the individuals have had sex too early.

Case in point

Two people meet each other at a club. By the second date they’ve had sex. They still continue to see other, not so much b/c they are really into each other but more or less b/c they already know what the result of the end of the date will be. They continue to see each other and before long they are seeing each other exclusively.

A few months go by, and they both sort of realize that the person they are seeing probably isn’t exactly right for them, they could probably find someone better if they really tried, but they are going to continue to try and make it work.

One night they get in an argument. The guy ends up pushing the girl, who has never seen that side of him before. Now the girl realizes that he’s obviously not the person she thought he was, and she tells him that the relationship is over. He tells her he’s going out with his friends and turns to leave.

Now, let’s break from the illustration for a moment, and consider a couple of points. This is a situation which, from what I’ve seen occurs in many relationships. It doesn’t always involve any physical violence, it could be any fight over the first few months in which a person realizes the individual they are seeing probably shouldn’t be their first choice. Now, we have to consider what would happen here had they not had sex to begin with. In my own personal opinion, most girls would let the guy walk out of the door. But many times in this situation, the girl will tell the guy not to leave, against her best judgment. Why? Not because she wants him there, not because she wants to sleep with him, but because SHE DOESN’T WANT HIM TO GO SLEEP WITH SOMEONE ELSE. She knows how they met, and the circumstances behind them. If he’s mad, and he goes out, he’s going to be looking to get back at her. And what better way of doing that then finding someone else to go home with?

Again, let’s look at it from the standpoint of how things would be, if they were based on how God would want them. If the vast majority of people were virgins until they were married, imagine how different things would be? If the girl in the illustration had never slept with the guy to begin with, if they were both virgins and planned on being virgins until marriage, she would have no problem with him going out because she would know he wasn’t going out to get "laid." In fact, if sex wasn’t an issue, the only thing we would ever base our choice of a marriage partner on would be their personality, and all of the things people say they make their choices on anyway. I think there’s a clear parallel between the prevalence of sex on television, in the media, in movies, in advertising, etc., the rise of premarital sex over the last 50 years, and the ever-increasing divorce rate.

This topic was of interest to me so I checked some statistics regarding sex. Granted, these are very rough and I’m taking some liberties here, but I think the point will pretty much be the same regardless.

The average time between when most people have their first sexual encounter and the time they get married is roughly between 6-9 years. But let’s go even further than that and say it’s 10 years.

The average person, from the time they have their first sexual encounter to the time they get married has sex an average of 5 times a month (This is the mean avg. Obviously, the number goes way up for those who have “boyfriends/girlfriends over much of this time, and way down for those who do not).

The average premarital sexual encounter is around 10 minutes.

Now, taking these stats, let’s do a little calculating:

5 sexual encounters a month X 12 months in a year = 60 sexual encounters a year for the avg. person.

60 sexual encounters X 10 minutes = 600 minutes

600 minutes X 10 (years between first sexual encounter and marriage) = 6000 minutes = 100 hours = 4 days, 4 hours

To sum this up, the average person has around 100 hours (4 days, 4 hours) of sex before they get married. Now you can try and figure out exactly what it would be in your circumstance, but generally the figure doesn't come out to be much more than this. Even as much as 20 or 30 days, when compared to the length of one's life isn't all that much.

Again, just think of how different things would be if God had his way. Sexually transmitted diseases wouldn't even be something to worry about. Abortions wouldn't occur at near the rate they do now. Families would stay together at a higher rate because the circumstances regarding their decisions to stay together would be much different. Relationships would be based on what's truly important. And it's a proven fact that kids fair better in life overall, when they come from a stable family as compared to a broken home.

I could go on and on but I think the point is pretty clear. Look at all we give up, and for what? Just over 4 days of pleasure (on average).

God didn't give us commands so that we wouldn't have any fun. He set it up that way because he knew that that was the best way for things to be.

And as for the whole theory that "you wouldn't buy a car, if you've never test driven it"...

You would have nothing to base it (sex) on if you'd never slept with anyone else before!

Anyway, this is just how i see it. I'm sure many will disagree, but I would love to hear everyone's opinion.
 Fid Copya
Joined: 1/13/2005
Msg: 66
Sex Before Marriage
Posted: 1/20/2005 2:56:12 PM
Pssst! I believe it would be spelt 'willikers', but hey, what do I know. Not sure it's a real word anyway.

Yes Loukas, some of us here are starting to like you and you style - I hope that doesn't put you off.
 Fid Copya
Joined: 1/13/2005
Msg: 67
Sex Before Marriage
Posted: 1/20/2005 3:57:39 PM
But you do have 2 children whom you love and who love you and give you much joy in life. You're now benefitting from a different kind of love. I understand that you would change things if you were able to, but would that include not being with the children you now have? They are going to provide you with a lot of love and many great moments over the coming years. Looking at it like that, it doesn't seem to be as big a mistake. Disclaimer: I'm not you and I know little to nothing about your life and situation. Just my $0.02 CDN.
 Singlemaltgirl
Joined: 12/31/2004
Msg: 68
Sex Before Marriage
Posted: 1/20/2005 4:28:45 PM
2kewt - don't beat yourself up about making a mistake or two when you were young. as a christian, you should realize that the faith is about forgiveness and that you are a sinner like the rest of us. please don't live in regret or consider yourself unworthy of love.

i can't say that you will or will not find love. but i do know that you are deserving of it and shouldn't feel that what you did in the past is going to define everything you do now. you've learned from it and moved on and have 2 great kids as a result.
 cat_in_hat
Joined: 1/11/2005
Msg: 69
Sex Before Marriage
Posted: 2/1/2005 12:36:45 PM
agrees with spiff........i think people don't realize what kind of commitment they are making......it seems to be some kind of trendy thing......
 cat_in_hat
Joined: 1/11/2005
Msg: 70
Sex Before Marriage
Posted: 2/1/2005 1:06:17 PM
i disagree.......i think it has a lot to do with morals and stuff like that......i have had sex before marriage and it hasn't bothered anybody i dated......i think people need to take the other aspects of marriage aside from sex a little more seriously........but then again thats just my opinion.......
 cat_in_hat
Joined: 1/11/2005
Msg: 71
Sex Before Marriage
Posted: 2/1/2005 1:31:35 PM
same here.....marriage can be a great thing.....as long as you understand what you are doing.....
 easytag
Joined: 7/15/2003
Msg: 72
Sex Before Marriage
Posted: 2/1/2005 1:44:01 PM
As I've stated in posts before (http://forums.plentyoffish.com/datingPosts320989.aspx), debating the issue of premarital sex with someone who does not agree with the Bible is pointless. From my experience, the best thing to do is look at the trouble premarital sex can cause and then figure out if its really worth it.

I summed it up as best i could in the above post, but the short of it is this:

The average person is only going to have sex for an average of 4 days, 4 hours (not all that scientific, but if you re-read the example in my original post, you'll get the idea, and can figure out your own numbers) between the time they lose their virginity and the time they are first married. Obviously, it will be higher for some and lower for others. I've presented this to many people before and their first reaction is that that cannot be.

But lets go a step further. Let's use above average numbers for everything. Let's say you lose your virginity at age 15 and get married at 30. That leaves 15 years in between. Let's say you have sex AN AVERAGE of 15 times a month in those 15 years (again, extremely high). And let's say, your average sexual encounter is 45 minutes(with the exception of the guys who will undoubtedly tell me they always go longer than this, most girls will tell you that this is high too).

15 years X 12 months = 180 months

180 months X 15 times per month = 2,700 times (the person has had sex)

2,700 times X 45 minutes per sexual encounter = 121,500 minutes of sex

121,500 minutes = 2,025 hours = 84.375 days. A little shy of 3 months.

I know countless people who have contracted sexually transmitted diseases. I know 3 people who've died from AIDS, and many more who have AIDS or HIV. One of the individuals, a female, had never had sex without a condom being used. And not one of them contracted any of the diseases with someone they were married to.

I'd ask them if the trading their life for several days of pleasure was really worth it, if I didn't already know the answer.
 miss music
Joined: 1/18/2005
Msg: 73
view profile
History
Sex Before Marriage
Posted: 2/2/2005 2:02:57 AM
As I've said in other posts, I'm a "sex only in marriage" kind of girl. I totally and firmly believe that if you love the other person, TRUELY love the other person, you will be attentive to their needs in all ways and responsive to their desires. Isn't that the key to great sex?

If any man meets all my other criteria (and I've got LOTS of criteria, trust me!), then it's a given that he will be a GREAT lover. I don't need to take him for a test drive.

And if he has to have sex with me before he will commit to me exclusively, if that's the deal-breaker for him, then it's "Thank you very much...NEXT!" There's plenty of fish out there!

Why do I feel this way? Several reasons:
1) Because of the risks of STD's. (I am not about to gamble with my life or the life of my perfect partner.)
2) I don't want to worry about pregnancy. (Do you know that given 100 couples who use condoms exactly as directed EVERY time they have sex, aproximately 11 of them will get pregnant in a year? Statistic from the Calgary Health Authority in Alberta, Canada.)
3) I find out if the guy can carry on a semi-decent conversation outside of the bedroom and at times other than post-coitus!
4) This quickly eliminates those men who value sex above everything else.
5) I avoid the trap of thinking that sex=love.
6) I avoid the trap of trying to "make" him "love" me by having sex with him and all the heartache that goes along with that.
7) I avoid all chance of being USED. I know 100% that the other person is NOT hanging around just for the sex. I KNOW that I am not just a warm body who is easy on the eyes and has the right kind of plumbing.
8) This encourages developing those aspects of relationships that will stand the test of time. I will know that sex is just the icing on the cake. If one or the other of us can no longer have sex (perhaps an accident causes paralysis - heaven forbid), our relationship will not only survive, it will continue to thrive.

I could go on!
 miss music
Joined: 1/18/2005
Msg: 74
view profile
History
Sex Before Marriage
Posted: 2/2/2005 11:36:13 AM
Loukus said:

As a Christian, I believe that I'm undeserving of love to begin with.
None of the mainstream Christian religions preach this. What they state is that we are not worthy of salvation and that salvation is a gift.

It reminds me of an old joke...

Mary McTavish dies and goes to heaven.

St. Peter meets her at the Pearly Gates and says, "Here's how it works. You need 500 points to enter into heaven. You tell me all the good works you did in your lifetime. I'll award you a certain number of points for each of your works, depending on how good it was. When you reach 500 points, you get in."

"Fair enough," Mary said, confident she would have no difficulty in piling up 500 points, with plenty to spare. "To begin with, I was a good wife to Hamish McTavish for 50 years and never cheated on him, even in my heart."

"That's wonderful," says St. Peter. "Hamish was a hard man to live with so I'll award you 3 points for that."

"Only 3 points," Mary grumbles. "Ah well, then," she continues, "I attended church all my life, rain or shine. Never missed a service. Always gave God more than my tithe."

"Terrific!" says St. Peter, "that's certainly worth 2 points."

"Only 2 points! Can you spare it, I wonder?" Mary complained. "How about this? All by myself I started a soup kitchen in my town. Not only that but I regularly did free work in a shelter for unmarried mothers."

"Splendid!" exclaimed St. Peter. "That's good for another point."

Mary take it no longer. "Are you daft, man?" she exploded. "I spent my life on those good deeds and I only get 6 points total for the bunch of them?"

"I'm sorry," replies St. Peter, "but that's all they're worth. Actually, I was a bit too generous."

"Generous?" Mary moans, her eyes filling with tears of hopelessness. "Alas, at this rate the only way I'll get into heaven is by the grace of God."

St. Peter beamed. "Welcome home little sister. You may enter!"

As far as being worthy of love, we all are worthy of love. You, me, everyone. This is part of mutual respect and self respect.

There can be no healthy relationship without mutual AND self respect. I would never date anyone who had no respect for me or for himself.

Finally, you always get what you expect. If you expect the world to squash you, that is exactly what it will do...because you will do things to court it and entice it. Your brain always wants to prove you right.

Time to stand up for yourself. If your partner does not give you love and respect through words and actions, time to move on.
 miss music
Joined: 1/18/2005
Msg: 75
view profile
History
Sex Before Marriage
Posted: 2/3/2005 1:18:11 AM
Salvation and love are two separate things.

It is definitely non-christian to believe that you are not worthy of Love.

And even if you still believe you're not worthy of love, I think it's clear that God wants you to be loved. Jesus commanded us to love our neighbour as ourself. This commandment has no value if you do not love yourself. He also commanded us to "love one another as I have loved you".

Why do you not want to love yourself? For what possible reason do you think you are not worthy? What does a person have to do to be worthy? Is it just you or is everyone unworthy?
 Fid Copya
Joined: 1/13/2005
Msg: 76
Sex Before Marriage
Posted: 2/3/2005 1:18:11 PM
@wiiliam_tyr: Put that in your profile!

@Loukus re "The usual. I'm a fallen human being, just like everyone else.":
IIUC, God/Jesus will forgive you.
If they will, then maybe you shouldn't be so hard on yourself?

re topic: Call me a heathen if you will, but I'll take sex before marriage. I hear it's hard to get after marriage. :/
 cat_in_hat
Joined: 1/11/2005
Msg: 77
Sex Before Marriage
Posted: 2/3/2005 4:01:04 PM
i didn't find anything obvious......but sex is not the only thing in marriage.....but i still see nothing wrong with consentual sex before marriage......you should live life the way you want to.......
 Fid Copya
Joined: 1/13/2005
Msg: 78
Sex Before Marriage
Posted: 2/3/2005 4:05:32 PM

I should be allowed obstinate self depreciation every now and then.


Whatever turns you on! :D


I see where you're coming from: love+marriage+sex is the way to go.

Not for me, though. I've gotten so comfy in the gutter.
 miss music
Joined: 1/18/2005
Msg: 79
view profile
History
Sex Before Marriage
Posted: 2/3/2005 4:06:21 PM
In response to my comment that it is non-christian to believe you are unworthy of love, Loukus said
I don't see how. I mean, this is sort of the reason for, you know, that whole, uh... Jesus thing.
My response is that if we are unworthy of love, then God would never have bothered making such a huge sacrifice for us. I can not see how the fact that He sent us Jesus, the fact that he sent us such a gift, that He sacrificed so much for us, can be taken as proof that we are unlovable.

Do you typically give gifts to people who are unworthy?

That's all I'll say on the subject. I've said my piece. I am not going to continue feeding this wallowing in self-pity.
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