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 drinkthesunwithmyface
Joined: 3/27/2012
Msg: 140
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Has society bred stupidity?Page 8 of 8    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8)
I see that it's still ineffective sometimes to cite post numbers instead of copy pasting posts. My message 127 refers to something that is no longer there, and now points to a post that I wasn't talking about at all. Arg!
 Aries_328
Joined: 10/16/2011
Msg: 141
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Has society bred stupidity?
Posted: 9/29/2012 7:24:57 PM

We are led to believe everything we saw was true and a new generation is coming along and they are told not to question anything because mommy and daddy have it all under control and they know better while making sure a vast number of them have been diagnoses with some invented social disorder so they are good and doped up, you are going to produce dumb dumb f*cking kids, no doubt and none of those are the result of liberal minded thinking.


You have that all backwards... The new generation is to not only question your mommy and daddy but to rebel against them and that the government has it all under control and the government knows better because you likely have a social or learning disorder and here are necessary drugs to help you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attention-deficit_hyperactivity_disorder_controversies

Meyers states that in the 1990s some social conservatives began to see ADHD as a sign of societies' hostility towards men and as an infringement upon the family.


You can thank this guy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell_Barkley

, Ph.D., is a Research Professor in the Department of Psychiatry at the State University of New York Upstate Medical University. Involved in research since 1973 and a licensed psychologist since 1977, he is an expert on attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) and has devoted much of his scientific career to studying ADHD and related problems in children.


I can't argue that it isn't a real condition. Can you? However, what the diagnosis and treatment is doing to people today isn't a right wing conspiracy as you want to think.

Please try again.
 Aries_328
Joined: 10/16/2011
Msg: 142
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Has society bred stupidity?
Posted: 9/29/2012 7:46:50 PM

Public Education were defunded by the post-Reagan Republican K-Street/C-Street bunch in the last 40 years.


Before I consider that as anything other than addressing how one state is addressing the issue as being relevent to anything else... please provide evidence that "Public Education was defunded post Reagan.

actually look at when the money started being spent
http://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=66

It started in the 80's. Why... the Department of Education thanks to douche newt the closet leftist. I remember that time very well. the f*n moral majority with Al and Tipper Gore leading the charge.

http://thinkerspodium.wordpress.com/2009/07/24/tipper-gore-why-do-you-haunt-me-so/

But prior to that, I remember Gore from the political power he enabled his wife to wield back in the 1980s. Particularly in relation to the way she hooked up with the moral majority (particularly the wife of Reagan’s chief of staff) to crusade against the Devil’s music.
 emotionalheat
Joined: 6/27/2007
Msg: 143
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Has society bred stupidity?
Posted: 9/29/2012 8:55:59 PM
Response to Gingerosity Msg 151


I'd think that stupidity and intelligence would be opposites, in general.

I like J. Martin Rlotsche's take on what intelligence means:


"Intelligence is derived from two words -- inter and legere -- inter meaning 'between' and legere meaning 'to choose.' An intelligent person, therefore, is one who has learned 'to choose between.' He knows that good is better than evil, that confidence should supersede fear, that love is superior to hate, that gentleness is better than cruelty, forbearance than intolerance, compassion than arrogance, and that truth has more virtue than ignorance."

I like the Rlotsche quote but it only speaks of one’s ability to identify between virtue and vice. How does a person attain the knowledge to identify between virtue and vice and what would guide the individual to choose one over the other?


So if intelligence is promoted by facilitating informed, rational choice, then the question becomes to what extent does society assist or retard such development and create an environment of freedom in which to choose?


I think your first assumption is backwards, we must first have knowledge (information) in order to apply it, rationally, to a choice. Therefore, having knowledge facilitates intelligence which is the ability to apply knowledge(information) to a choice in a rational manner. Then, I think, your two questions can be restated to be more relevant.
To what extent does society assist or retard the ability of individuals to attain knowledge (information)?
AND:
To what extent does society promote or inhibit an environment of freedom for the expression of choice?

Getting back to the first quote
I'd think that stupidity and intelligence would be opposites, in general.


I think that stupidity occurs in different ways, two of which I’ll state here.

1. Stupidity can be a willful act, it occurs when an individual makes an irrational choice by deliberately ignoring or denying information of which the individual has full knowledge.
2. Stupidity can also be attributed to the lack knowledge or , more specifically, ignorance of how to think critically. (at this point I leave out individuals who do not have the mental (cognitive) capacity to comprehend all the information much less make critical assessments)

In example (1) a stupid act by such an individual can be thought to be a rational and virtuous choice by those who are ‘ignorant’ of all the information that is necessary in order to form a more rational conclusion. For whatever reason, the ignorant have placed faith in the stupid person’s choice.

So Ignorance is lack of knowledge (or information), and those who lack information are not necessarily stupid. For example, a person may claim to be agnostic. That person may have sufficient information about various religious beliefs, and science and may be adept in critically evaluations. That person may reason (rationally) that all the dogma associated with religious beliefs is fallacious. On the other hand it might be going too far to think that humans will ever have it in their power to fully understand what preceded our universal existence. Therefore it might be best to consider that, at this point, there is not enough information with which to determine if our universe occurred through intention or through nature. I would not consider such a person to be stupid, but the person admits that ignorance (lack of information, which cannot be attained objectively) has played a role in the critical evaluation.

So stupidity is not the opposite of intelligence. Stupid people have knowledge and having knowledge facilitates intelligence. Ignorance however, is a lack of knowledge and since knowledge facilitates intelligence, the lace of it suggests the opposite of intelligence which is the ability to apply knowledge to a choice in a rational manner.

These are my thoughts but before I apply this thought process to the other comments about free market capitalism, widespread availability of scientific method and social contract, I would like to have some feedback.

Does it make sense that
Having knowledge facilitates intelligence which is the ability to apply knowledge(information) to choices in a rational manner. Would that make the following two questions relevant.

To what extent does society assist or retard the ability of individuals to attain knowledge (information)?
AND:
To what extent does society promote or inhibit an environment of freedom for the expression of choice?

And do my definitions of ‘Stupidity’ (1 & 2) and of ‘Ignorance’ lead to the my conclusion that:

Stupidity is not the opposite of intelligence. Stupid people have knowledge and having knowledge facilitates intelligence. Ignorance however, is a lack of knowledge and since knowledge facilitates intelligence, then the lack of it suggests the opposite of intelligence (intelligence being the ability to apply knowledge to a choice in a rational manner).
 rockondon
Joined: 2/21/2007
Msg: 144
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Has society bred stupidity?
Posted: 9/29/2012 9:51:49 PM

Has society bred stupidity?

I think society is breeding stupidity.
Uneducated dolts spending their lives on income assistance are great at popping out tons of kids, far more than the higher educated ones who actually benefit society.
/devil's advocate.
 Outsideofthebox1
Joined: 8/18/2012
Msg: 145
Has society bred stupidity?
Posted: 9/30/2012 8:32:20 AM
Yes, it always has and always will...
 427cammer
Joined: 3/1/2008
Msg: 146
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Has society bred stupidity?
Posted: 10/1/2012 4:37:13 PM
Aries msg. 156:


She does not allow for anyone thing to maintain dominance over all others.

Nature not only prefers equality, she demands it.

????.

No really... ?????

Project much? Anthropomorphism much?

So, if you would have called it 'He' that would be God and that would be bad but since you call it 'she' that is mother earth and tree huggers unite?

I had similar thoughts when I read that post.... kind of like he's deifying Nature. Strange animals people, no?... no matter how much they fight against it, it seems their brain has a "Flying Spaghetti Monster" shaped void in it that they feel compelled to fill up with whatever's available.

Nature abhors a vacuum.... so It is written.


Aries msg. 171:

actually look at when the money started being spent
http://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=66

No one seems to want to touch this with a ten foot pole.

So.... from 1961 to 2008 spending on education has almost quadrupled?.... and people are still getting stupider?

Whodathunkit?
 Kohmelo
Joined: 9/20/2011
Msg: 147
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Has society bred stupidity?
Posted: 10/2/2012 3:32:56 AM

So.... from 1961 to 2008 spending on education has almost quadrupled?.... and people are still getting stupider?

Did it actually quadruple?

http://www.thepeoplehistory.com/1961.html

How Much things cost in 1960
Average Cost of new house $12,700.00
Average Monthly Rent $98.00
Cost of a gallon of Gas 25 cents
23 inch Television $219.95
Average Cost of a new car $2,600.00
 427cammer
Joined: 3/1/2008
Msg: 148
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Has society bred stupidity?
Posted: 10/2/2012 6:40:31 AM

Did it actually quadruple?

No, it actually went from $393 to $10,297 actual dollars (these are costs per pupil).... an increase of 26 times.

In adjusted for inflation dollars it almost quadrupled.... the link that Aries provided was there in my post.
 Kohmelo
Joined: 9/20/2011
Msg: 149
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Has society bred stupidity?
Posted: 10/2/2012 9:02:35 PM

the link that Aries provided was there in my post.

...and there I was proving the thread title....
Anyways - look at the data.
61 thru 91 (30 years) the spending increase is 2.8 times whereas 91 thru '08 (27 years) the increase is only 33%, which is still large but pales in comparison to the first 30 years.
Most of the answers to the spending increases can be found in those first 30 years.
 Aries_328
Joined: 10/16/2011
Msg: 150
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Has society bred stupidity?
Posted: 10/2/2012 9:57:11 PM

61 thru 91 (30 years) the spending increase is 2.8 times whereas 91 thru '08 (27 years) the increase is only 33%, which is still large but pales in comparison to the first 30 years.
Most of the answers to the spending increases can be found in those first 30 years.


I have no clue what you are trying to say but you need to learn about rates of change and exponential growth a bit before you can say that the first 30 years growth is similar to the recent 30 years. $1 : $2 and is 100%growth. $100
: $1000 is only 10% growth. Unless you were saying something different and that doesn't apply.

Now take our population of school children and we still compare to the rest of the world which means we spend a whole crapload more than any other country.
http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/statistics_explained/index.php?title=File:Expenditure_on_educational_institutions,_2003_and_2008_(1).png&filetimestamp=20111117102022

For what? Now, keep in mind. I didn't say we are getting dumber. I think our overall intelligence has risen greatly. I also think that the effort to equalize education has lowered the bar for education and severely lowered standards. I also think the teaching methods are not based in teaching anymore and are more in self esteem which has no value in actually educating. Also, more kids depend on school for their meals which is an entirely different form of control.

So... What were you saying?

You guys really should read Plato's Republic. It's all covered.
 427cammer
Joined: 3/1/2008
Msg: 151
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Has society bred stupidity?
Posted: 10/2/2012 10:20:59 PM

61 thru 91 (30 years) the spending increase is 2.8 times whereas 91 thru '08 (27 years) the increase is only 33%, which is still large but pales in comparison to the first 30 years.
Most of the answers to the spending increases can be found in those first 30 years.

From '91 to '08 is 17 years.

...anywhooo... not sure where you're going with this. Spending has not increased at the same rate as the first 30 years. Are you suggesting that it should have? If so, why?

Edit for above:

$1 : $2 and is 100%growth. $100: $1000 is only 10% growth.

From $100 to $1000 would be 1000% growth. I can be a bit obsessive/compulsive (read prick) about numbers.
 Aries_328
Joined: 10/16/2011
Msg: 152
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Has society bred stupidity?
Posted: 10/3/2012 10:32:03 AM

From $100 to $1000 would be 1000% growth. I can be a bit obsessive/compulsive (read prick) about numbers.

!doh. so what you are saying is that 10% is not equal to 10x :D
 Kohmelo
Joined: 9/20/2011
Msg: 153
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Has society bred stupidity?
Posted: 10/3/2012 8:04:18 PM

.anywhooo... not sure where you're going with this. Spending has not increased at the same rate as the first 30 years. Are you suggesting that it should have? If so, why?

Thanks for correcting my math - brain fart.
Anyways - No. I didn't suggest it should have nor did I suggest that it should not have. All I am saying is that the majority of the increase is in the first 30 years, thus the rate of change is no where near linear.
If you were to compare today vs 91, you'd see only 33% increase and while that may seem high, with increases in technology and rapid advances in sciences, I would expect that schools would dole out a few extra bucks, especially over the past 17 years.

So just to make it very clear, my point is this data was relevant 17 years ago (after the 280% increase) but is not so relevant for right now (33% increase over 17 years).
 Smplguy55
Joined: 1/10/2012
Msg: 154
Has society bred stupidity?
Posted: 10/10/2012 11:41:29 AM
Sadly humans are the most stump dumb creatures on this planet. We are the only creatures on this planet who systematically and willfully destroy the very things we require to survive (air, water, soil) Ponder this next time you get feeling like your really smart! Humbling!! George Carlin was spot on It's all bullshit and it's bad for you! R.I.P. George.
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