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Show ALL Forums  > Relationships  > A girl matter.. Way beyond spilled milkshake..      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 chameleonf
Joined: 12/22/2008
Msg: 45
A girl matter.. Way beyond spilled milkshake..Page 4 of 8    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8)
Dave, let's not stoop to personalizing in the manner that you just did. My response with respect to apples and oranges wasn't in response to any of your posts, even though I also happen to disagree with your stance on the matter. If you want to get personal, Email me and I'll give you a full bore response if you want to take it in that direction.

Notatowniegirl: If your girlfriend was suddenly capable of acting in the way she did, she's either having a breakdown if it's totally out of character to display this type of behaviour or you've seen signs of inappropriate actions in the past and overlooked them. It's unusual behaviour to suddenly be that extreme - that's all I'm getting at.

Edit: LOL..wrong kind of taking it to a personal level, dave...but cute response.
VVVVVVV
 sweetest
Joined: 10/8/2007
Msg: 46
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A girl matter.. Way beyond spilled milkshake..
Posted: 3/22/2009 12:24:55 PM
Seaga, in your first post on pg 4 you wrote that you really identified with an earlier poster on pg 1. His suggestion in post 16 was from the get go something that in my pov, I found to be rather simplistic and paternalistic.

He also suggests that we who advise the OP to keep the friendship, despite the OP's friend's poor choices are, in some way - condoning her poor choices; and by extension rewarding her for it. We're not. Far from it.

My son is 17 1/2 years old. I've always told him that no matter what he does in life; he will always have my love and support; even if he does something wrong. If my child did anything as egregious as your scenario depicts...I would turn him in (we've actually discussed this)..but I would still love and support him. Unlike Korky's pov, my support of those I love is unconditional...friendship and love will never (by me) be meted out as a 'reward'.

Cheating bfs/gfs and spouses is a rampant condition everywhere. As someone else has already contributed to this thread, if we refused to have anything to do with all these known cheaters (not to mention the legions that keep it covert for years and even decades) finding a good friend might just then be like one in a million....!

Edit: added to first and second paragraph for clarity.
 Wishes Granted
Joined: 3/6/2008
Msg: 47
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A girl matter.. Way beyond spilled milkshake..
Posted: 3/22/2009 12:47:38 PM

The words "contagious"and "lepers"...? are such an extreme exageration that it drains any impact your response may have had.
Although the words "contagious" and "lepers" wasn't used.. I feel exactly the same way about Dave's post.

BTW: using the words

example I used was not even (remotely associated)
makes me wonder why you would associate them with the details of this particular thread then??? Certain posts kinda remind me of bitter beans who resort to personal attacts (no offence withstanding)

Nice attitude
 chameleonf
Joined: 12/22/2008
Msg: 48
A girl matter.. Way beyond spilled milkshake..
Posted: 3/22/2009 1:05:16 PM

I have to wonder what the hell you'd have to say if the guy's wife found out about what was going on and shot your friend in the head with a 357 magnum. Maybe THEN you'd understand the gravity of the situation. I bet your post wouldn't have the little emoticon rolling around in laughter then would it?


Speaking of exagerations, I'd say that if the wife was the type capable of shooting someone in the head with a 357 magnum, she had all kinds of other problems which lead to her husband (improperly) seeking someone outside of his relationship with her in the first place. Stick to the topic at hand or I'll start making up stories that the man in this scenario was subjected to battering by his wife in an attempt to ridiculously support my opinion.
 sweetest
Joined: 10/8/2007
Msg: 49
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A girl matter.. Way beyond spilled milkshake..
Posted: 3/22/2009 1:10:27 PM
I have to wonder what the hell you'd have to say if the guy's wife found out about what was going on and shot your friend in the head with a 357 magnum. Maybe THEN you'd understand the gravity of the situation.


Weren't you the one citing 'extreme exaggeration draining the impact...." Talk about over the top!

My point is this: You can have friends that F**K married men if you want to. If you have ONE friend that likes to F**K married men? Then that means you would be fine with having EIGHT frinds that like to F**K married men.


Yes I probably have a friend or 8 that do this...because it's hardly ever disclosed...further, I don't ask for a run down of who my friends and acquaintances are sleeping with. Affairs and cheating are kept discreet. And before you go launching more venom know this: You probably have a few of the same people in your groups and networks.

People who have affairs are everywhere! They're in your extended family. They work with you or have in the past; they go to your church (yes they do!); they live on your street and invite you to bbq's in the summer; their kids play with your kids. So by your logic you would need to vet every relationship to determine their 'worthiness', because you couldn't have anything to do with these 'people'...because of their personal choices affronting your own personal moral code.

I have firm morals and firm values and will not impose mine on anyone else. JMO
 Wishes Granted
Joined: 3/6/2008
Msg: 50
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A girl matter.. Way beyond spilled milkshake..
Posted: 3/22/2009 1:35:47 PM

you need to wake up and eat a real pill. This is entirely ON topic. Ig you have a friend that you support screwing a married person then you support the possible consequences that go along with that decision also.

Maintaining a friendship does not support a persons bad decisions. It only supports the friendship. Here's another example that has absolutely nothing to do with this thread: If your son or daughter got hooked on drugs. (You are morally against such behaviour) would you kick his/her ass out at the first discovery of the drug taking? Or, would you maintain the parent/child relationship until your child got help and came to be on the right and healthy path again? Now, after doing everything possible to set the kid on the right path and they refused, then it would be time for tough love and refuse to enable such behaviour. IMO.

Some people appear to have a very rigid / conditional view of what LOVE is.
 chameleonf
Joined: 12/22/2008
Msg: 51
A girl matter.. Way beyond spilled milkshake..
Posted: 3/22/2009 1:47:46 PM
God. Was anybody EVER talking about what goes on that you DON'T know about?
Get with the program here. Keep up.


So, let me get this straight...as long as you don't know about it, they're a fine upstanding citizen in your eyes, but if you happen to get wind of it they're suddendly scum, no matter their other outstanding qualities? Keep wearing those rose coloured glasses and keep burying your head in the sand, I'm sure it serves you some useful purpose.


Quite often it's looked at as justifiable homicide and they don't even go to jail. I don't know what lala land you're living in, but
you need to wake up and eat a real pill. This is entirely ON topic. Ig you have a friend that you support screwing a married person then you support the possible consequences that go along with that decision also.


Justifiable homicide for blowing someone's head off who's spouse had an affair? Where did you find that rule of law? Certainly not in North America.

Please read what posters are saying...they do NOT support that the person is having the affair; in fact, they (myself included) have made that clear any number of times. Some people are either very selective in what they read and choose to interpret or lack the ability to comprehend what they read. I get that you are THAT judgemental with people. I'm not judgemental to the same hardline extent that you are ...but I do believe that Karma will come back to bite people (even the friend who has chosen to cheat) as well as people who are so incredibly judgemental.

....the point is, the friend has not had all these other scenarios included - those are your embelishments to the OP's story. Again you go off track with a number of what ifs. If a person was acting out of character to that degree where you keep adding to your embellishments, I would attempt to help them by pointing out the error of their way and advise them to change course and seek help. I certainly wouldn't participate in what they are doing or help facilitate their behaviour. It's really not a difficult concept.

...and then you go further by personalizing it as though it were any poster opposing your view who had the cheating husband and friend. That is not the scenario of this thread. That aside, there are still those people that do have that very thing happen and do go on to forgive their spouse to the point of being friends with them in one way or another and would not, for instance, turn their back on the offending friend if they found them in real trouble - certainly things would take on a different dimension because it has then been personalized. Then there are others who would say if they found said friend hit by a car, they would do nothing to assist them. If that's you, fine - it's not me, nor is it a number of other poster's positions.
VVVVV
 Wishes Granted
Joined: 3/6/2008
Msg: 52
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A girl matter.. Way beyond spilled milkshake..
Posted: 3/22/2009 2:03:23 PM

How can you have a serious friendship with someone that makes decisions contrary to your system of beliefs?
I counter with how can you wipe someone who's been a part of your life since childhood because they've fvked up ONCE? and that mistake does not affect me personally in anyway? If it was a transgression directly against ME than I would have to think twice about what kind of a friend she really is/was in the first place.


Let's say you make a decision to support the friendship sfter she confides to you that she's screwing a married man.
What do you say next week if she tells you she's seeing an additional married man?
What then if she told you she's begun shoplifting? For the thrill of it? and on and on?
If it came to that.. then obviously she/he's changed to an extent that we would no longer be compatible.. the friendship would THEN be impossible because we wouldn't be the same two people we were that drew us to be friends in the first place... Is that so hard to understand?

My last paragraph answers the rest of your post.

 wishful58
Joined: 8/20/2005
Msg: 53
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A girl matter.. Way beyond spilled milkshake..
Posted: 3/22/2009 2:14:32 PM
.... let him who is without sin cast the first stone ..... I'd be her friend, I'd talk with her, I'd wonder why she had such low self esteem as to want to do this, and express that to her, and I'd be there. That's it ....... B
 Wishes Granted
Joined: 3/6/2008
Msg: 54
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Posted: 3/22/2009 2:31:41 PM

I said," SERIOUS" friendship. and I never said anything about WIPING them out of your life. Come on. When you let a friend know you can't support a decisin they've made that doesn't mean either one of those things necessarily will be the result. But you and that REALLY good friend are going to have a rift there because of the bad decision they made. Either there will be a rift or there won't be. If there isn't..? It's because you decided you're cool with what she's doing or she decided to stop doing it.
Your straw man arguments are tedious but I'll reply anyway.

To address the bolded portion of your quote: So.. are you now saying that you wouldn't sever the relationship.. pick a side will ya?

I did not say there wouldn't be a "tiff" about what she was doing..(if you read my previous posts you'd know that I would be telling her what I thought about how her behavior will affect her and others) all I said was that if she screwed up ONCE within a friendship that has lasted many years, I wouldn't disown her for it. If she continued in the behaviour and did the same thing over and over or did worse things against my "belief system" then the friendship or, any type of relationship for that matter would most likely terminate. Please look outside the box to see what I'm saying.
 00redheadsaid00
Joined: 5/30/2008
Msg: 55
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A girl matter.. Way beyond spilled milkshake..
Posted: 3/22/2009 2:45:40 PM
Hey all,


Thank you all for your idea’s and opinions. I sure got a lot of them honestly I didn’t think for a moment that I would get response that I did..

I figure I would give you an update on the situation even though the up-date is a small one..

Up-date is I spoke to the other group and I pleaded with them not to judge me when I’m just trying to keep us pulled together. I told them that regardless if it was any them in Kate’s shoes I would do the exact same thing and re-main loyal as it is the same luxury they all have given to me when I have fallen short of what they deserved..

After a long talk the others understand where I’m coming from so least they may not agree with my choice to re-mains friends with Kate they will at least respect the choice and are willing to be friends with me.. But they have no interest in contact with Kate until she stops this relationship..

I figured that since Kate was the one who openly came out that she was dating this married man that I should be allowed to talk to her about it.

A few details I left out of my prior post so people hopefully won’t need to jump to so many assumptions. Though I don’t’ meant to be I’m a very vague person when it comes to writing so I will probably leave out more details which will have some of you still jumping to your own assumptions on Kate, The married man and Me and for some of you Even my cat..

The married man..

There are three of us in the group who know this man as he works along side of us.

I know he is married and has two kids. I have spoken to his wife a few times but other than just an outside acquaintance I really don’t know him or her or details about their marriage other than they are in fact married and regardless if their marriage was on the rocks or not married is married in my court I wouldn’t want my friend to get involved with him..

What I know of the affair.

I asked Kate when they started this relationship and she confided that it started in November which was a lot earlier than when I originally thought it started as I just found out about it a week ago. It apparently branched out to this relationship from a friendship they formed.

When she started talking about their relationship it made me really un-comfortable and well angry. It sounds like a very superficial relationship that is basically built on convenience and sex as that seems to be all there is to it.. He calls her she makes herself available. I didn’t think my friend suffers from low self-esteem before but as this is the sort of relationship she desires in someone I can’t help but question why she doesn’t think she is deserving of better than that..

My friend..

First Kate isn’t the devil.. Kate is well just Kate.
She is a recent divorcee as in the ink was dried six months ago.
This is the first relationship she has had since she divorced.
She is one of the most generally kind people I have ever met.
She is also one that is prone to act impulsively.
Kate was the one who packed up me and my child and moved us in with her without blinking an eye when my husband said that he didn’t have any intention of stopping his affair.
She is my friend regardless if what she doing makes me sick.

Regardless if you agree with me or not, I will re-main loyal to her and be her friend that does NOT mean I will make any effort in supporting her relationship with this man.. I’m presently looking for a transfer in my job so I won’t have to work along side of him.

I know a lot of you will rip me to shreds on my choice but it is just that my choice..

Please try to be gentle in your replies as it took a lot of guts for me to even post this.. Some of you ladies scare the heck out of me..
The Redhead.
 Wishes Granted
Joined: 3/6/2008
Msg: 56
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A girl matter.. Way beyond spilled milkshake..
Posted: 3/22/2009 2:59:14 PM

She is a recent divorcee as in the ink was dried six months ago.
well, it's quite obvious that sub-consciously she does not want a relationship of commitment yet and has chosen to make herself less lonely without the fear of him wanting more from her.. this of course is unfortunately being done at the expense of someone elses partner. You might want to tell her that there are literally thousands of men on this site that are single and would be willing to alleviate her loneliness without committing to her. *laughs ~ kinda*

Good luck ~ You're a good friend who has the ability to forgive without enabling. (In otherwords you won't lie for her and you don't condone or sanction what she is doing but you remember her friendship to you in your time of need) Hopefully it will all get worked out soon.
 Landra
Joined: 9/10/2007
Msg: 57
A girl matter.. Way beyond spilled milkshake..
Posted: 3/22/2009 5:57:29 PM
That's all nice. I'm sure the man's wife and kids would be relieved to know Kate is a darling.
She's so kind, I'm sure the children won't mind knowing she's helping to destroy their lives.
Maybe the wife can befriend her as well, since she's not the devil.


I can’t help but question why she doesn’t think she is deserving of better than that..
yeah, same question for you when it comes to your friends. Don't you feel you deserve better?
 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 58
A girl matter.. Way beyond spilled milkshake..
Posted: 3/23/2009 5:16:12 AM
For the people who want to compare murder to adultery...do you really think people in healthy marriages cheat? sounds like these marriages are going down the hill already, so is it really akin to murder, a mercy killing...or ?

Now, if Kate did what she could to woo this man away, I'd say that's awful, but what if the husband was already on the search b/c his marriage sucked? Funny how he keeps getting a free pass.

Oh well. If posters are the type to cut off a longtime friend so quickly, then that's fine. But, I wonder how a longtime friend suddenly goes off script. suddenly does behavior so abnormal to what made them a friend all this time before. Methinks the friend was this type of person all this time, yet it didn't bother you.
 packagedealx3
Joined: 2/4/2006
Msg: 59
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Posted: 3/23/2009 6:09:12 AM
It always sort of crack me up that Jesus, who was pretty much as without sin as a human gets, could forgive anybody anything and the majority of the time was hanging out with the prostitutes and the criminals, the dregs of the sinner barrel, without judging them or deeming them inferior human beings. His was the ultimate guilt by association, eh?
 GoneSailinBabe
Joined: 7/6/2008
Msg: 60
A girl matter.. Way beyond spilled milkshake..
Posted: 3/23/2009 7:32:44 AM
Hey y'all it's Monday - nice to see things on POF never change.....

Good quote about Jesus, GF....I loved that one! Guess we have some who are holier than the most holy? Or simply a whole lot more bitter...


Now, if Kate did what she could to woo this man away, I'd say that's awful, but what if the husband was already on the search b/c his marriage sucked? Funny how he keeps getting a free pass.


Whoa baby! Not only are we giving the GUY a free pass we aren't holding HIS wife responsible for the fukked up mess her marriage is.....ah ha embittered women who claim no one is caring about his poor loving wife and kiddies.....assuming aren't we that she's simply lovely and innocent and not a hopped up, crack addict, biotch from Hell.....

Or maybe, she is? Maybe the dude's wife is a shrew....maybe she DESERVES to be cheated on and abandoned because she has made his life and everyone else's hell???

That COULD be.
Couldn't it....

Really, anything is possible in the land of POF where assumptions and judgements and conclusions are all based on reality only in as much as ANYTHING can be real and credible online.

OP - you're an excellent friend and you clarified much about Kate and her choices. I hope she grows and matures and learns what she wants in life.

Peace out, y'all Happy Rainy Monday!
 Wishes Granted
Joined: 3/6/2008
Msg: 61
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Posted: 3/23/2009 8:15:05 AM

It always sort of crack me up that Jesus, who was pretty much as without sin as a human gets, could forgive anybody anything and the majority of the time was hanging out with the prostitutes and the criminals, the dregs of the sinner barrel, without judging them or deeming them inferior human beings. His was the ultimate guilt by association, eh?
Great post packagedeal
 packagedealx3
Joined: 2/4/2006
Msg: 62
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Posted: 3/23/2009 10:42:56 AM
Well, just to thoroughly hijack the thread, if you even believe you are somehow better than anyone else because of your belief system and ethical standards you are indeed casting the stone in your head and as the thought is father to the deed....Most evangelists I have encountered seem to side-step that whole judgment issue because they don't get that what Jesus did was to walk among them because he did not think he was any better than any of them, he wasn't doing it as a favor to them, background and position meant nothing to him because there are saints and sinners in all socio-economic groups. He might have wished that they improve their belief system and ethical standards but he did not think he was better than they were for not having them.

Bottom line, considering the repost that I did not see when I posted earlier, the woman the OP speaks of was a very good friend to her when she needed it and she is not willing to ignore that friendship because Kate is doing something that not only bothers the OP, but truly makes her sick. Shows a great deal of character in my opinion and the friends I am also happy are able to deal with the OP's choice while making a different one themselves.

Sometimes OP, people are really mental after a divorce. If the marriage was bad, the smallest bit of attention can make you feel so wonderful, and it is such a change from the years of whatever. Hopefully this will be a passing thing and she will get her head out of her butt soon. You have gone through your own, had Kate not taken you under her wing, I suspect there would have been many more irrational moments for you and lord knows how that idiocy will manifest.

It always seems more productive to me to try to guide someone beyond their own stupidity than to point fingers and do the I am better than you dance.

Dude, you make absolutely no sense whatsoever and I am sooo glad I am not your friend so you can sit on your little daiz and dissect my life to determine whether I am worthy of your paltry friendship. And this is where your argument is just plain stupid.


that know better than to stretch the gray margins entirely out if proportion

You apparently accept that there are gray areas of life but apparently you have appointed yourself arbiter of where those gray areas end when these are subjective things for all people. Certainly there is some line that someone crosses and even when the situation does not impact the individual directly, they decide they can no longer be friends with the person.

Dealing crack to kids would probably be one for me but then again, I would probably ask the person have you lost your fuking mind and try to get them to stop, but that's just me.
 chameleonf
Joined: 12/22/2008
Msg: 63
A girl matter.. Way beyond spilled milkshake..
Posted: 3/23/2009 11:49:21 AM
If you can't tell the difference between murder and adultery, I'd certainly not want you on a jury. Stop with the "what ifs" - she didn't commit murder. That's like comparing stealing a chocolate bar and robbing a bank. They are both wrong but different in scope.

Being non-religious, I don't tend to draw any god said this that or the other thing into forum topics. So are you then saying that if a person commits adultery, they should be on death row like a person who has committed murder?
VVVVVVV
 chameleonf
Joined: 12/22/2008
Msg: 64
A girl matter.. Way beyond spilled milkshake..
Posted: 3/23/2009 12:28:22 PM
wouldn't want you on a jury either. Both the bank robber and the chocolate bar thief are thieves.


So if you are doling out punishment in that oh so black and white stance, then a person who commits adultery should be sent to the electric chair just like someone who has committed murder and a person who steals a chocolate bar should receive the same penalty as someone who robs a bank....being that guilty is guilty and all that jazz? We are basically talking about punishment fitting the crime here. If you believe turning your back on someone who has hitherto been a very good friend is fitting punishment, again, I wouldn't want you on a jury.
 chameleonf
Joined: 12/22/2008
Msg: 65
A girl matter.. Way beyond spilled milkshake..
Posted: 3/23/2009 1:29:42 PM
No, pro-filer. In my world things aren't black and white and I don't throw out the same "punishment" because not all crimes and circumstances are the same. You were the one saying that "theft is theft"; therefore, the deduction, through your examples, would also be that you believe the punishment, no matter the degree of the crime, should be the same. You only have to look at the judicial system to see that's not the case. Each transgression needs to be weighed on its own merit and circumstances. In this case, I don't believe that a person continuing to have contact with someone within a circle of friends should be thrown from the group because she has a differing opinion or a different association with the perpetrator. As it turns out, from the OP's further postings, the group came to their senses after giving it further thought. Good on for them. We all have our varying set of principles and even those principles have varying degrees within each set. I wouldn't snub you even though I disagree with you and that's basically what the group's stance started out as. They didn't want to associate not only with the one having the affair (their choice), but with anyone who didn't follow the herd.
 chameleonf
Joined: 12/22/2008
Msg: 66
A girl matter.. Way beyond spilled milkshake..
Posted: 3/23/2009 1:54:24 PM
Dave...and I willingly accept your apology. Not that I'd be all bent out of shape even if you still thought I was addressing you. I like a good debate (obviously) and I don't hold grudges because someone might happen to disagree with my point of view - not unless dirty tactics are used.

Pro-lifer....it would seem that this is a day for apologies and I owe you one! Serves me right for multi-tasking.
 chameleonf
Joined: 12/22/2008
Msg: 67
A girl matter.. Way beyond spilled milkshake..
Posted: 3/23/2009 4:34:59 PM
verityone and seaga - my examples have to do not with the "crime" (adultery) but with the punishment (excessive). Now you've thrown in an armed chocolate bar robber of all things - sure, if a person wanted to steal a chocolate bar using a gun - throw the book at him. I'm talking about degrees of punishment for degrees of a crime. As explained - I do NOT condone adultery but the "punishment" to the person who will maintain contact with someone else who has committed the act, in my eyes IS excessive punishment if the group of women won't have anything to do the OP who decides to maintain a long standing friendship with the adulterer. It's not about the adultery itself - it's about the treatment of someone who wasn't the adulterer. You are of the opinion that the friend of the adulterer (the OP) should not associate with her and if she does, the group of women should shun the OP as well. Quite the harsh ripple effect, if you ask me. I'm not one who bases my associations on what someone else's dictates are and I take things case by case, not on a one size fits all basis as you do. Had the OP's friend shown a pattern of this throughout their friendship, yes, I would have distanced myself from her long ago. They have a friendship history that bears consideration when making a decision. Even the group of women relented and found they were too harsh on the OP.

Having said all that, I also stick by my own sentiments that I would not turn my back on a friendship with someone who did commit adultery - I just wouldn't be a party to it. I would express my displeasure, and would tell her I wouldn't cover for her if confronted by anyone who had a need to know. I'd attempt to counsel her in the error of her ways, whether she liked it or not and whether or not that counsel made her angry to the point of her discontinuing our friendship. I take friendship seriously when it's someone I care about and when they're acting in a way that will ultimately harm themselves and others.

Dave: I'll get your head spinning so much you'll pass out from shear exhaustion
 chameleonf
Joined: 12/22/2008
Msg: 68
A girl matter.. Way beyond spilled milkshake..
Posted: 3/23/2009 6:46:11 PM
You're absolutely entitled to your parameters, however, when you want to back up your own arguments by stretching things to someone stealing a chocolate bar and suddenly having them using a gun in the act, don't accuse me of being the one using strawman arguments. This is the end of the debate for me, personally. I believe myself, and everyone else to this point, has pretty much made their position clear. Thanks for the fun everyone and the insight to your personalities. See you around in the next topic, whatever that may be.

Best of luck to you, OP, with your friends.:
 Landra
Joined: 9/10/2007
Msg: 69
Ahh irony
Posted: 3/24/2009 5:19:19 PM
It's ironic that the thread above this one is called
"Husband of 26 yrs. Left for a girlfriend 15 yrs younger "
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