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 AUTHOR
 printer2
Joined: 6/19/2007
Msg: 35
Our soldiers...Just what are they dying forPage 2 of 4    (1, 2, 3, 4)
Forget about shared responsibility to other people in the world. The heck with them, they do not need our help. The fact that the people trying to take over the country would probably whip you, sorry I meant give you the lash, if they were your government and you talked that way.

Better to have women as cattle, forget sending them to school they do not need it to make babies. Much better if they could not write, if it was you over there you might not have the writing skills to post in a forum like this. And I am sure we would all regret that.
 printer2
Joined: 6/19/2007
Msg: 36
Our soldiers...Just what are they dying for
Posted: 12/3/2009 7:57:11 PM
You are some piece of work.

My comment was tongue in cheek, sarcastic and meant to highlight how easily guys like you have the touque pulled over your eyes.


Have you not all heard the reason our soldiers are over there? They are protecting our freedoms and way of life. One only has to look at the number of times Afghanistan has sent soldiers and warships to Canada to threaten us.


Have not noticed any tongue in cheek yet.



The number of times Afghans have come to our front door telling us our freedoms and way of life will soon be eliminated by them. The numbers of times their troops have policed and occupied our land. The number of times they have bombed our cities and killed our people.


Still no tongue in cheek evident, still waiting.



Wait a minute I've got it ass-backwards. I guess I'm brainwashed by our government and media.


Well here might be a little, I would guess the punch line is coming up.



Canada is now an aggressor nation like our bully to the south. They couldn't control Asia, so now they are targeting Arab states.


Hmm... they way I am reading this is that you are against Canada contributing to the war. Not sure when we were trying to control Asia, I guess we need to bully someone so Arabs are a good choice.


Now I am not saying that you should take this seriously but, you know how people are misjudging you? Well no real gentle way of saying it but, maybe you should take a step back and look at yourself. You may find the source of the troubles others find in you.

Have a nice day.
 OhNoItsDano
Joined: 11/3/2008
Msg: 37
Our soldiers...Just what are they dying for
Posted: 12/4/2009 8:35:22 AM
Maybe we can inoculate the Taliban and Al Quaida for polio...they'll all end up with MS and voila, end of terrorism!
 susan_cd
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 40
Our soldiers...Just what are they dying for
Posted: 12/4/2009 8:18:47 PM

One only has to look at the number of times Afghanistan has sent soldiers and warships to Canada to threaten us. The number of times Afghans have come to our front door telling us our freedoms and way of life will soon be eliminated by them. The numbers of times their troops have policed and occupied our land. The number of times they have bombed our cities and killed our people.


So if we use this logic ( the Afghans haven't attacked us so we have no business over there) then Canada shouldn't have gotten involved in the second world war either; Germany and Japan didn't attack Canada; so what the heck were we doing in Europe fighting them??

rozzko also fails to mention that the Afghanistan government WANTS the Canadian military there; hardly an "invasion" by an agressor nation.
 arturo_bandini
Joined: 9/4/2009
Msg: 41
view profile
History
Our soldiers...Just what are they dying for
Posted: 12/5/2009 8:54:09 AM
Obama has committed an additional 30,000 troops at a cost of 30 billion dollars a year to fight what his own intelligence agencies estimate to be less than 100 Al Quada fighters. So let's say that Al Queda IS wiped out (at a cost of $300,000,000 per terrorist) - who replaces them? The taliban? Opium-producing warlords? Do we stay and wipe them out as well, or do we go home and pat ourselves on the back for a job well done? Let's ask the British or the Soviets how well their campaigns in Afghanistan went (you could ask Ghengis Khan as well, but probably wouldn't get an answer). I say we cut our losses and bring our troops home - we're gonna need them come spring when the Red floods. BTW, being opposed to the war in Afghanistan does NOT translate into being against our troops - quite the opposite. We can't win there - history has taught us that. Bring 'em home.
 haywiresue
Joined: 9/27/2006
Msg: 42
Our soldiers...Just what are they dying for
Posted: 12/5/2009 12:35:58 PM
Our soldiers were deployed to help the people in Afghanistan and other parts of the middle east live to remove the tierny of the taliban and others who ruled by violence, after the 9/11 attack on the US, and other attacks in other parts of the world. Many of the people in these countries were without basic human democratic rights, wanted change and an improved way of living. The retaliation actions of the US have been sanctioned by the United Nations. Countries like Canada and Britan have assisted.

In these countries that we have troops deployed, women were and are being killed and abused without any reason by the previous terroristic power, they were unable to attend school, learn to read, or work to provide for their families. Men who did not want to become part of the terrorist army were executed. Female children were raped, beaten and killed, while male children were taken from their homes and forced to become part of the agressors army. Gee........what are they dying for?

In addition to protecting the safety of these citizens our troops were instrumental in assisting in having democratic elections and training local police to uphold newly formed democratic laws. These troops have assisted with aid from other UN recognized charities to provide water, electricity, food, medical care and in the rebuilding of infastructure. Through this work the troops were able to provide communication with the outside world through telecommunication and world news broadcasting that was being allowed into the countries for the first time ever.

Our troops have been deployed in an attempt to rid the world of tierny as troops of other generations have done in the numerous conflicts throughout the world. If the Taliban and other terriorist groups gain control of the money made by the OPEC nations, they might be in a position to plan and fund destruction of the democratic world, and world domination............that Hitler could not achieve.

I fully support the plans of eliminating violence and the oppression of others from the world. Sadam Hussain was one success story and eliminating Osama Bin Laden and others like them is the only way to deal with terrorism.

I support the efforts of our troops and UN agencies in providing a new way of life, education, health care, and the building blocks for these countries to begin living a democratic way of life.
 susan_cd
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 43
Our soldiers...Just what are they dying for
Posted: 12/5/2009 3:54:43 PM

Let's ask the British or the Soviets how well their campaigns in Afghanistan went



We can't win there - history has taught us that.


But all the history you bring up is about invading armies entering Afghanistan on wars of conquest. Our troops are there with the blessing of the Afghan government; hardly the same as armies seeking to expand their empires.

You can be as opposed to our troops being there as you like ( and as you say, being opposed totheir presence there isn't being against our troops) but use valid arguments to support your position. The British & Soviet examples were invading armies..entirely different from our soldiers mission there.
 arturo_bandini
Joined: 9/4/2009
Msg: 44
view profile
History
Our soldiers...Just what are they dying for
Posted: 12/5/2009 11:25:39 PM


But all the history you bring up is about invading armies entering Afghanistan on wars of conquest. Our troops are there with the blessing of the Afghan government; hardly the same as armies seeking to expand their empires.

Semantics. We weren't "asked" to invade Afghanistan after September 11. Hamid Karzai's government is in place only with the blessing of the U.S. and amounts to little more than a puppet government. Besides that, the enemy that we're fighting there could care less if we were asked to come over or not - they still enjoy the same advantages that previous invaders or "guests" have been subject to. The argument for why we're there in the first place keeps changing. In late 2001, it was to weed out terrorists and destroy Al Queda - now we're there so that women aren't subjugated and the Afghani people can enjoy western style democracy. Justify it however you want, but it's time to end it.
 haywiresue
Joined: 9/27/2006
Msg: 45
Our soldiers...Just what are they dying for
Posted: 12/6/2009 8:30:41 AM
You are correct in the respect that we weren't ask to invade Afghanistan. We assisted the US after 9/11 to hunt down the dogs who brought terrorism to the US in an attempt to financially ruin the US. Had that been accomplished, do you think those monsters would have stopped there? I don't, did Hitler stop after his first victory? It was discovered by US and Canadian intelligence that terrorist plans were being formulated after 9/11 to cripple millitary installations in the US, then turn their sights on Canada. They planned on duplicating what was done in the US, by wiping out our financial and business centres by bombing Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver, followed by our military installations. Europe was next on their agenda. This information was broadcast on CNN and I followed the coverage intently.

It is really easy to be an "armchair general" and debate semantics or manipulate events. During this return on an act of war, the military modified their plans, but the objective remained - to capture the terrorists responsible for that act of war and destroy Al Queda. I can't remember exactly why they chose Afghanistan as a starting destination, but I think it had something to do with the terrain of the area and it was a central point to the mountain tunnel system. The taliban was able to move to through many countries in the region through the extensive tunnel system, and they did not have full support of the Afghan people.

The reports of how the people were treated in this region at the hands of Al Queda, came out after a female journalist who was born in Afghanistan and later moved to the US with her family produced documented evidence of how the people were being tortured, and what was really going on. Once this information aired, the military called in more resources to deal with liberation of the people and to help them bring order to their country and introduce democracy. In any liberation, there are people who fear the oppressors and resist change, but there have been 2 elections in Afghanistan, they are developing their own democratic police and military, and people there are now able to make personal choices and have some of the democratic safety that we take for granted here. Its not perfect, nor finished, but it is better for the people than when the Taliban or Al Queda were the oppressors.

I would like to see our troops return home, but Osama Bin Laden, the Taliban and Al Queda have not been destroyed, so until then, the objective has not been completed and our troops need to be there. There is only one way to deal with terrorism and tierny and that is to destroy it, as left alone it grows and spreads like mold.
 arturo_bandini
Joined: 9/4/2009
Msg: 46
view profile
History
Our soldiers...Just what are they dying for
Posted: 12/6/2009 9:46:43 AM



It is really easy to be an "armchair general" and debate semantics or manipulate events.

So by holding an opinion contrary to yours, I'm being an armchair general? How exactly did I manipulate events?

I would like to see our troops return home, but Osama Bin Laden, the Taliban and Al Queda have not been destroyed, so until then, the objective has not been completed and our troops need to be there. There is only one way to deal with terrorism and tierny and that is to destroy it, as left alone it grows and spreads like mold.

I couldn't agree more. That's why I've always wondered why, when 18 of the 19 9/11 hijackers were from Saudi Arabia, when much of the financial backing for Al Queda comes from the Saudis and that Bin Laden himself is a Saudi , that there was never the slightest mention of taking the fight to the front door of the terrorists. Must be because of their exemplary human rights record and shared opposition to "tierny".
 Dudleyh45
Joined: 8/4/2008
Msg: 47
Our soldiers...Just what are they dying for
Posted: 12/6/2009 9:54:58 AM

I would like to see our troops return home, but Osama Bin Laden, the Taliban and Al Queda have not been destroyed, so until then, the objective has not been completed and our troops need to be there. There is only one way to deal with terrorism and tierny and that is to destroy it, as left alone it grows and spreads like mold.

The only way to accomplish this would be a complete genocide of any nation who you war with. The ideal is in the people,their leaders just reflect and help them intensify that idealism. We didn't drive to extinction any other of our enemies and we shouldn't now.
The only natural predator of man is man himself and with the advances in modern medicine we need war for population control. Part of the problem lies in the fact that the more civilized man becomes the more brutal his weaponry. It used to be you had to come face to face with your enemy and club or otherwise overcome him. For this reason as well as cost most wars were kept relatively short. Now you don't even need to be in the same hemisphere and you can kill and maim thousands with the push of a button. For this reason wars should be kept even shorter. I think this one has gone beyond it's time frame and slowly we should pull out and build our defences here. We will always have war just as we will always have poverty and disease. We need to build and be vigilante.
Other nations will always have their problems as we do ours. let them fight for their freedoms if they want them. Our interference has done nothing to end tensions at any place on this planet we have sent peace keepers or aid of any kind. The dictators remain wealthy the impoverished remain subserviant and neither knows nor understands any other way. Let them live their lives as they see fit in their nation as we do in ours.
I have absolutely nothing against war but it needs to be done and over with as quickly as possible so we can return to the business of living and improve trade markets etc. This thing should have been a message not a full out war and should have been done with inside 3 years.
Of course this is just my opinion and each of us has one of those.
 Dudleyh45
Joined: 8/4/2008
Msg: 48
Our soldiers...Just what are they dying for
Posted: 12/6/2009 10:16:06 AM

I couldn't agree more. That's why I've always wondered why, when 18 of the 19 9/11 hijackers were from Saudi Arabia, when much of the financial backing for Al Queda comes from the Saudis and that Bin Laden himself is a Saudi , that there was never the slightest mention of taking the fight to the front door of the terrorists. Must be because of their exemplary human rights record and shared opposition to "tierny".


Could be that the Saudi's produce oil rather than heroin?Might be that these extremists come from all over the world but their stronghold for government support was Afghanistan.
I think you'll find the Saudi's have been fighting this war longer than we have and we could learn from them and their backwards ways.
The saudi's have what is considered the most successful repatriation program in the world for these so called terrorists(funny how we use guerrilla warfare and our enemies use terrorist tactics). They imprison them and councel them on what the quran actually says and means. If and when they are ready they place them into society and help them find employment. If they are single they help them find wives and encourage them to produce families. A family man is duty bound to home and thus must use reason and therefore less prone to indoctrination of extremists. All the while the government is supporting him and any family he may have. From what i've heard it has a very good success rate.
 susan_cd
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 49
Our soldiers...Just what are they dying for
Posted: 12/6/2009 10:50:09 AM

Semantics. We weren't "asked" to invade Afghanistan after September 11.


So if someone calls you on the flawed examples you use to support your view, then it isn't your examples thatare wrong, it's "semantics" ???

Also, we aren't "invading" Afghanistan. We are there with the support of the current government.


Besides that, the enemy that we're fighting there could care less if we were asked to come over or not - they still enjoy the same advantages that previous invaders or "guests" have been subject to.


The enemy we're fighting there doesn't care if we've been invited or not. That means our troops are fighting an enemy which isn't the current government. So our troops aren't an "invading" army. Thanks for bolstering my point
 haywiresue
Joined: 9/27/2006
Msg: 50
Our soldiers...Just what are they dying for
Posted: 12/6/2009 11:53:32 AM
Arturo, holding an opinion contrary to mine does not make you or anyone an armchair general. Nor did I say that you manipulated events. I made that comment because I have encountered, and had discussions with people who were uninformed, who do not follow current events and just quote media headlines and catch phrases. These same people are unable to back up things they have said or discuss the issues any further for lack of knowledge, and when challenged about an event they have manipulated. In stead of discussing the issue and possibly learning something or having their opinion modified or changed, they regroup and begin to attack the person who challenged them, or try to turn things into a pissing contest.

Your comments about the hijackers are correct and I believe that there is more going on than we have knowledge of. I think the plan will be better understood once more information comes to light, after the military plan has been achieved. There are more players in the Taliban and Al Queda than the 19 hijackers. Saudi Arabia does not demonstrate exemplementary human rights and that has been a concern since the world became dependent on oil. I would personally like to know more about what the military are doing, but that is not in the news, and that leads to assumptions and speculation.

After 9/11, I was of the opinion that the US should have turned these countries into golf courses with their bombs. However, that was not right as these groups oppressed innocent people and liberating the innocent people them while seeking the destruction of the forces behind the terrorism was the right thing to do. I believe these terrorists cannot be rehabilitated as they hide behind religion to do unspeakable acts of violence against innocent people. IMHO when a person has no respect for human life of another, or takes life away from another by violence, they are beyond help.
 Dudleyh45
Joined: 8/4/2008
Msg: 51
Our soldiers...Just what are they dying for
Posted: 12/6/2009 1:15:03 PM

I believe these terrorists cannot be rehabilitated as they hide behind religion to do unspeakable acts of violence against innocent people. IMHO when a person has no respect for human life of another, or takes life away from another by violence, they are beyond help.


Does this include using Christianity and Judaism as well as the other religions?
You have to remember these people are being indoctrined with misinterpretations of their holy book the same as many in all religions are. Do you not think that once they are shown what their book truly says and what the intent of the prophet was that they cannot change their thinking? Religion is a powerful tool and depending on the circumstance can be either a weapon or a shield. These terrorists are people just like the rest of us and just as we do they can learn and grow and change,it is inevitable.
They have their society as we have ours and what seems normal to us may seem barbaric to them and vice versa.
 haywiresue
Joined: 9/27/2006
Msg: 52
Our soldiers...Just what are they dying for
Posted: 12/6/2009 2:32:45 PM
Dudleyh45 - I don't believe that anyone who disrepsects the life of an innocent person and uses violence to take that life out, regardless of what mantra or religion they subscribe to, can be rehabilitated. This is my opinion, you will not be able to change my mind, and everyone is entitled to their opinion. So lets agree to disagree. It is for this reason alone, I believe in the executing war criminals and the death penality in the the local celebrity circuit .

Religious wars have gone on since the beginning of time, and regardless of the reason or differences the same things occur. Innocent people are murdered, property and possessions have been pillaged and there was no respect or regard for human life, or the possessions they had, or the carnage left behind.

All the religious conflicts in the world have and are about one group believing they have supremacy over another and the prize of that conflict is to eliminate the other religion or to take land or possessions that do not belong to the aggressor. Religious conflicts are not settled by scholars or prophets in a non-violent manner. Instead they are a facade that terrorists hide behind to do unthinkable planned acts of violence against unsuspecting unarmed innocent people.

Now please explain to me how these people are the same as you or I?

The United Nations and Democratic Countries of the world believe that every person on this planet has the right to live without oppression, and without violence. This is why countries such as the US, Canada and the UK get involved with terrorism, regardless of how it is labeled, packaged or advertised.

I would like to see the trained military used to eliminate gang activity, as I don't see much difference between the mindset of terrorists and gang organizations. IMO gang members are terrorists in training.
 Dudleyh45
Joined: 8/4/2008
Msg: 53
Our soldiers...Just what are they dying for
Posted: 12/6/2009 5:33:11 PM

Now please explain to me how these people are the same as you or I?

I believe every person on this planet has the same needs and the same basic human nature. We have different ways of prioritizing those wants and needs as well as thoughts on how to achieve them. That is what makes us the same and equal yet different.
I don't see this as a religious war. I see religion being used as a weapon to gain power over easily swayed people. All i see is people fighting to gain or maintain power over one people or another. If you want to unite a people you need a common ground, either a common goal or a common enemy. The taliban or alqueda were able to unite people from several nationalities into one or two groups to wage war against a common enemy. If you create an enemy you eventually have to war with them and if you have followers you need to keep them interested.
As for what the united nations thinks i couldn't care less what they think as they are no better than any other gang of thugs. What the un wants is to gain world domination and they show this in their desire to control the governments of every nation and force everyone to be the exact same. It is funny you add canada in the group when we really don't want to fulfill our obligations just as we didn't in Vietnam. If you want one world government just keep supporting the un bullies.
The gang members being compared to terrorists is hardly fair. Any decent terrorist would be thoroughly insulted to be grouped in with the cowards in gangs.
I don't believe there is such a thing as a waar crimminal. War is war and when at war there are no innocents.
 haywiresue
Joined: 9/27/2006
Msg: 54
Our soldiers...Just what are they dying for
Posted: 12/6/2009 6:39:30 PM
Dudleyh45 I will agree to disagree with you.

You are right that everyone priorizes their wants and needs, but it is only right when everyone in the mix earns what they get. Violence and murder to achieve these priorities is terrorism.

I don't share your thoughts on the UN. I have visited the UN while on a trip to NYC, bought some very interesting books written about the UN and I believe I have very good understanding of the development, process and authority of the UN. I'm curious about what substandtiates your opinion of the UN? The UN is not about one world government.

You don't see this as a religious or holy war - well I hate to tell you this, but in the first transmission received from Osama Bin Laden he declared a Jehad (sp?) a.k.a. holy war on the United States and other democratic countries.

Not sure about your comment about adding Canada to the group of not wanting to fulfill our obligations - what are you referring to?

Canada was involved in Vietnam - as peacekeepers. My cousin was in that conflict and was released with a medical discharge for neurologic problems experienced from being exposed to that non-existant chemical called Agent Orange.

Hmmmm........comparing gang members to terrorists. Geez, I think the shoe fits. Gangs terrorize people, violently attack and murder people for just happening to be at a location or wearing some kind of sports clothing that the gang member appears to want and not earn or buy for themselves. People die from the violence of car thefts. I'm not sure what your definition of terrorist is, but gang members fit the profile of a terrorist in my mind.

There are no war criminals, you say.................well mention that to anyone alive who was brutalized or terrorized in a German Concentration or Work Camp. Tell that to any of the European people who have numbers tattoo'd on their arm, when their personal identities were replaced with a number and they were regarded as vermin. Tell that to the survivors children and grandchildren.

I am sorry your understanding is blurred by the blinders you are wearing. Please visit the Human Rights Museum when it has been completed and opened to the public. You might change your thoughts on some of these issues.
 Dudleyh45
Joined: 8/4/2008
Msg: 55
Our soldiers...Just what are they dying for
Posted: 12/6/2009 7:47:46 PM

Canada was involved in Vietnam - as peacekeepers.

That is true and we were also involved heavily in selling arms and munitions to the US,a little over 6 billion dollars worth.A tidy sum in those days. We would not however make the commitment that was needed to back the newly formed South Vietnamese government. We left that to the US and other nations while harbouring their crimminal cowards. We go so far as to teach our children we were not involved and against the war there. We go as far as refusing to acknowledge the Canadian Vietnam war veterans with a memorial yet build one for the draft dodgers and praise them for their running from their fight rather than staying and fighting for what they supposedly believe in. We took a cowardly stand and that is how we will remain.

I understand that those who win the wars get to write the history of it so naturally we will have those who will determine that there are war crimes.Everyone who fights an enemy will feel slighted and feel their enemy used unfair tactics.We all commit attrocities during wartime.Should our government be tried for war crimes for the way the Japanese canadians were treated during the second world war or the Mennonite people during both world wars?The Mennonites ,to my knowledge, haven't received so much as an apology from government.

Every nation on earth has used guerilla warfare at some point or another but why is it when our enemies do it they are terrorists?It's simply the hypocracy of war. Truth is both sides are right in every battle,each is just right in his own eyes.
But all this is irrelevant. I still think the thing has dragged on too long and should be ended.If we need to do more damage send in the nukes and get this thing over with.
 haywiresue
Joined: 9/27/2006
Msg: 56
Our soldiers...Just what are they dying for
Posted: 12/7/2009 8:10:26 AM
Dudleyh45 - amazing you go from saying we were not involved in Vietnam and now you say we were, but won't admit it, but the veterans were honored with a memorial - man you are all over the map on this one. I don't believe that we took a cowardly stand, nor do any of our troops deployed as peacekeepers - so I think your comment is rude and distasteful to those who served.

I think you are watching too many war movies and confusing them with history books. I think you also need to familiarize yourself with the UN definition of what a war criminal is. War is war, and can be described as many things. War criminals are those who plan and carry out unnecessary acts of violence against non-military people in a country where a war is occurring.

You can use terms such as gurella warfare but it does not justify or change the activities of a war criminal. You cannot interchange the terms war criminal and terrorist. The activities may be the same or similar, however a war criminal uses the pretext of war to comit their crimes, while a terrorist does the same without the pretext of war. We have rules of conduct during times of war, and we have rules of conduct when we are not involved in war. We have the UN and war tribunals to deal with those who do not follow codes of conduct during war times.

IMO if you do not care or believe that each side is right and can do whatever they like, then you silently agree with acts of tierny, genocide, war crimes and terrorism. I must disagree with you that all of this is irrelivent, our country should be combating terrorism at home, which includes gang crimes. All democratic countries should continue to fight for the rights of the innocent against terrorism, and war.
 susan_cd
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 58
Our soldiers...Just what are they dying for
Posted: 12/7/2009 10:59:55 AM

don't see much difference between the mindset of terrorists and gang organizations. IMO gang members are terrorists in training.


Haywire, I can't imagine gang members here strapping a bunch of explosives around themself & detonating the explosives in Portage Place or atPolo Park ( or whereever).

But I like the idea of treating the gangs as terrorists; as long as the authorities are allowed to use deadly force when dealing with the gangs ( a group in a stolen vehiole is trying to elude the police? could be a car bomb, let's stop the vehicle any way we can... then there's no need to worry about the YCJA releasing the car thieves to steal another vehicle). A gang member in a house with a firearm? No need for a long drawn out event with negotiators; bring in a military team & let them deal with it. Again, the ridiculous YCJA won't be a hinderance.
 haywiresue
Joined: 9/27/2006
Msg: 59
Our soldiers...Just what are they dying for
Posted: 12/7/2009 11:57:55 AM
Susan CD - I see the brainwashing mindset similar in gangs to that of suicide bombers. Those who issue the orders to carry out terrorism are far removed and safe from the action being done on the gangs behalf. I agree and don't think any of the subordinates in gangs would strap explosives around themselves and detonating it, as they first of all are lead to believe that if they are doing a good job for the gang, they won't get caught. Also, gangs are into smaller crimes against fewer than 5 unarmed people as they have a pack mentality.

I have always believed that the police should police and the military be called in for their special forces expertise. Deadly force, I absolutely agree when a weapon is used or being threatened to be used in an act of crime/terror against an innocent and unarmed peron.

Most car chases end in damage or write off to the car, and many times innocent people have been injured or killed, so that turns a stolen vehicle a 2000 pound weapon, so I'm all for the police being allowed to disable the vehicle and be allowed to use any force up to and including deadly force to stop the crime. If this were the case, after a few of these incodents where the criminals are the biggest loosers, I think many criminals would change their minds about committing these crimes, and those who ride along for the thrill would not find this quite so entertaining.

I think that JCJA has a place, but once a child uses or intends to use a weapon to comit a crime or takes the life away from another in violence, that they are beyond the scope of the resources of the JCJA. The death penality does not have a record or repeat offenders..........unfortunately we cannot say the same for JCJA. Before the nails and the cross come out.............I prefer military boot camp for kids rather than the JCJA.
 susan_cd
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 60
Our soldiers...Just what are they dying for
Posted: 12/7/2009 12:09:59 PM
I agree that once violence has entered into the crime ( and merely stealing a vehicle & driving it should be considered a violent crime, since it can easily become a weapon) but unfortunetaly the YCJA ties the hands of the police & legal system.

Maybe the answer is a curfew ( perhaps 11 PM) for anyone under 18 unaccompanied by a parent or guardian. Then impose martial law between the hours of 11 PM and 6 or 7 PM. Anyone caught breaking the curfew will be charged under military law, not the civil law; thus the YCJA is removed from the equation.
 haywiresue
Joined: 9/27/2006
Msg: 62
Our soldiers...Just what are they dying for
Posted: 12/7/2009 2:29:12 PM
IMO curfew and martial law are no different than the gun permit joke that our ill advised legislaturers have created thinking it will curb crime with guns - it only punishes the law abiding citizens.

Huge joke about firearms registration - has anyone heard of a criminal filing the necessary papers and waiting the 14 or whatever number of days, after buying an illegal gun to commit a crime? No, its only the sport hunters, gun enthusiasts and collectors who respect firearms that are inconvienced and fund this program. Has anyone heard if a criminal who does not have a permit for their firearm or who cannot produce a legisitmate proof of purchase, ever get a fine thrown on top of whatever penality they face for the crimen the attempted or did use that firearm for? I don't think I can remember such a thing happening.

I believe the streets should be returned to the people - and not have people hide in their homes afraid to go out, or be terrorized by the criminal element. I can remember as a kid walking with my mom down Portage between Eatons and the Bay after the stores were closed looking in the store windows, enjoying the Xmas lights and trees and then going home by bus or being met by my dad who usually drove our car and then going to A&W at Polo Park for hot chocolate. We were never in fear the way people are now. This is sad, I don't understand why our government does not use our military resources and have men and women who are trained to deal with terrorists, patrol our streets and deal with those who terrorize the law abiding citizens. Great practice for overseas deployment of our troops and I think it would help more people appreciate the military and free up time for the police to work in areas of their expertice.
 susan_cd
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 63
Our soldiers...Just what are they dying for
Posted: 12/7/2009 2:50:35 PM

IMO curfew and martial law are no different than the gun permit joke that our ill advised legislaturers have created thinking it will curb crime with guns - it only punishes the law abiding citizens.



But a curfew & martial law won't cost the taxpayers hundreds of millions of dollars in administrative costs. And it won't punish the law abiding citizens, just those breaking the curfew. Or maybe the feds will show a glimmer of intelligence & get rid of the YCJA and the "catch & release" system it creates.
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