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 AUTHOR
 haywiresue
Joined: 9/27/2006
Msg: 50
Our soldiers...Just what are they dying forPage 3 of 4    (1, 2, 3, 4)
Arturo, holding an opinion contrary to mine does not make you or anyone an armchair general. Nor did I say that you manipulated events. I made that comment because I have encountered, and had discussions with people who were uninformed, who do not follow current events and just quote media headlines and catch phrases. These same people are unable to back up things they have said or discuss the issues any further for lack of knowledge, and when challenged about an event they have manipulated. In stead of discussing the issue and possibly learning something or having their opinion modified or changed, they regroup and begin to attack the person who challenged them, or try to turn things into a pissing contest.

Your comments about the hijackers are correct and I believe that there is more going on than we have knowledge of. I think the plan will be better understood once more information comes to light, after the military plan has been achieved. There are more players in the Taliban and Al Queda than the 19 hijackers. Saudi Arabia does not demonstrate exemplementary human rights and that has been a concern since the world became dependent on oil. I would personally like to know more about what the military are doing, but that is not in the news, and that leads to assumptions and speculation.

After 9/11, I was of the opinion that the US should have turned these countries into golf courses with their bombs. However, that was not right as these groups oppressed innocent people and liberating the innocent people them while seeking the destruction of the forces behind the terrorism was the right thing to do. I believe these terrorists cannot be rehabilitated as they hide behind religion to do unspeakable acts of violence against innocent people. IMHO when a person has no respect for human life of another, or takes life away from another by violence, they are beyond help.
 Dudleyh45
Joined: 8/4/2008
Msg: 51
Our soldiers...Just what are they dying for
Posted: 12/6/2009 1:15:03 PM

I believe these terrorists cannot be rehabilitated as they hide behind religion to do unspeakable acts of violence against innocent people. IMHO when a person has no respect for human life of another, or takes life away from another by violence, they are beyond help.


Does this include using Christianity and Judaism as well as the other religions?
You have to remember these people are being indoctrined with misinterpretations of their holy book the same as many in all religions are. Do you not think that once they are shown what their book truly says and what the intent of the prophet was that they cannot change their thinking? Religion is a powerful tool and depending on the circumstance can be either a weapon or a shield. These terrorists are people just like the rest of us and just as we do they can learn and grow and change,it is inevitable.
They have their society as we have ours and what seems normal to us may seem barbaric to them and vice versa.
 haywiresue
Joined: 9/27/2006
Msg: 52
Our soldiers...Just what are they dying for
Posted: 12/6/2009 2:32:45 PM
Dudleyh45 - I don't believe that anyone who disrepsects the life of an innocent person and uses violence to take that life out, regardless of what mantra or religion they subscribe to, can be rehabilitated. This is my opinion, you will not be able to change my mind, and everyone is entitled to their opinion. So lets agree to disagree. It is for this reason alone, I believe in the executing war criminals and the death penality in the the local celebrity circuit .

Religious wars have gone on since the beginning of time, and regardless of the reason or differences the same things occur. Innocent people are murdered, property and possessions have been pillaged and there was no respect or regard for human life, or the possessions they had, or the carnage left behind.

All the religious conflicts in the world have and are about one group believing they have supremacy over another and the prize of that conflict is to eliminate the other religion or to take land or possessions that do not belong to the aggressor. Religious conflicts are not settled by scholars or prophets in a non-violent manner. Instead they are a facade that terrorists hide behind to do unthinkable planned acts of violence against unsuspecting unarmed innocent people.

Now please explain to me how these people are the same as you or I?

The United Nations and Democratic Countries of the world believe that every person on this planet has the right to live without oppression, and without violence. This is why countries such as the US, Canada and the UK get involved with terrorism, regardless of how it is labeled, packaged or advertised.

I would like to see the trained military used to eliminate gang activity, as I don't see much difference between the mindset of terrorists and gang organizations. IMO gang members are terrorists in training.
 Dudleyh45
Joined: 8/4/2008
Msg: 53
Our soldiers...Just what are they dying for
Posted: 12/6/2009 5:33:11 PM

Now please explain to me how these people are the same as you or I?

I believe every person on this planet has the same needs and the same basic human nature. We have different ways of prioritizing those wants and needs as well as thoughts on how to achieve them. That is what makes us the same and equal yet different.
I don't see this as a religious war. I see religion being used as a weapon to gain power over easily swayed people. All i see is people fighting to gain or maintain power over one people or another. If you want to unite a people you need a common ground, either a common goal or a common enemy. The taliban or alqueda were able to unite people from several nationalities into one or two groups to wage war against a common enemy. If you create an enemy you eventually have to war with them and if you have followers you need to keep them interested.
As for what the united nations thinks i couldn't care less what they think as they are no better than any other gang of thugs. What the un wants is to gain world domination and they show this in their desire to control the governments of every nation and force everyone to be the exact same. It is funny you add canada in the group when we really don't want to fulfill our obligations just as we didn't in Vietnam. If you want one world government just keep supporting the un bullies.
The gang members being compared to terrorists is hardly fair. Any decent terrorist would be thoroughly insulted to be grouped in with the cowards in gangs.
I don't believe there is such a thing as a waar crimminal. War is war and when at war there are no innocents.
 haywiresue
Joined: 9/27/2006
Msg: 54
Our soldiers...Just what are they dying for
Posted: 12/6/2009 6:39:30 PM
Dudleyh45 I will agree to disagree with you.

You are right that everyone priorizes their wants and needs, but it is only right when everyone in the mix earns what they get. Violence and murder to achieve these priorities is terrorism.

I don't share your thoughts on the UN. I have visited the UN while on a trip to NYC, bought some very interesting books written about the UN and I believe I have very good understanding of the development, process and authority of the UN. I'm curious about what substandtiates your opinion of the UN? The UN is not about one world government.

You don't see this as a religious or holy war - well I hate to tell you this, but in the first transmission received from Osama Bin Laden he declared a Jehad (sp?) a.k.a. holy war on the United States and other democratic countries.

Not sure about your comment about adding Canada to the group of not wanting to fulfill our obligations - what are you referring to?

Canada was involved in Vietnam - as peacekeepers. My cousin was in that conflict and was released with a medical discharge for neurologic problems experienced from being exposed to that non-existant chemical called Agent Orange.

Hmmmm........comparing gang members to terrorists. Geez, I think the shoe fits. Gangs terrorize people, violently attack and murder people for just happening to be at a location or wearing some kind of sports clothing that the gang member appears to want and not earn or buy for themselves. People die from the violence of car thefts. I'm not sure what your definition of terrorist is, but gang members fit the profile of a terrorist in my mind.

There are no war criminals, you say.................well mention that to anyone alive who was brutalized or terrorized in a German Concentration or Work Camp. Tell that to any of the European people who have numbers tattoo'd on their arm, when their personal identities were replaced with a number and they were regarded as vermin. Tell that to the survivors children and grandchildren.

I am sorry your understanding is blurred by the blinders you are wearing. Please visit the Human Rights Museum when it has been completed and opened to the public. You might change your thoughts on some of these issues.
 Dudleyh45
Joined: 8/4/2008
Msg: 55
Our soldiers...Just what are they dying for
Posted: 12/6/2009 7:47:46 PM

Canada was involved in Vietnam - as peacekeepers.

That is true and we were also involved heavily in selling arms and munitions to the US,a little over 6 billion dollars worth.A tidy sum in those days. We would not however make the commitment that was needed to back the newly formed South Vietnamese government. We left that to the US and other nations while harbouring their crimminal cowards. We go so far as to teach our children we were not involved and against the war there. We go as far as refusing to acknowledge the Canadian Vietnam war veterans with a memorial yet build one for the draft dodgers and praise them for their running from their fight rather than staying and fighting for what they supposedly believe in. We took a cowardly stand and that is how we will remain.

I understand that those who win the wars get to write the history of it so naturally we will have those who will determine that there are war crimes.Everyone who fights an enemy will feel slighted and feel their enemy used unfair tactics.We all commit attrocities during wartime.Should our government be tried for war crimes for the way the Japanese canadians were treated during the second world war or the Mennonite people during both world wars?The Mennonites ,to my knowledge, haven't received so much as an apology from government.

Every nation on earth has used guerilla warfare at some point or another but why is it when our enemies do it they are terrorists?It's simply the hypocracy of war. Truth is both sides are right in every battle,each is just right in his own eyes.
But all this is irrelevant. I still think the thing has dragged on too long and should be ended.If we need to do more damage send in the nukes and get this thing over with.
 haywiresue
Joined: 9/27/2006
Msg: 56
Our soldiers...Just what are they dying for
Posted: 12/7/2009 8:10:26 AM
Dudleyh45 - amazing you go from saying we were not involved in Vietnam and now you say we were, but won't admit it, but the veterans were honored with a memorial - man you are all over the map on this one. I don't believe that we took a cowardly stand, nor do any of our troops deployed as peacekeepers - so I think your comment is rude and distasteful to those who served.

I think you are watching too many war movies and confusing them with history books. I think you also need to familiarize yourself with the UN definition of what a war criminal is. War is war, and can be described as many things. War criminals are those who plan and carry out unnecessary acts of violence against non-military people in a country where a war is occurring.

You can use terms such as gurella warfare but it does not justify or change the activities of a war criminal. You cannot interchange the terms war criminal and terrorist. The activities may be the same or similar, however a war criminal uses the pretext of war to comit their crimes, while a terrorist does the same without the pretext of war. We have rules of conduct during times of war, and we have rules of conduct when we are not involved in war. We have the UN and war tribunals to deal with those who do not follow codes of conduct during war times.

IMO if you do not care or believe that each side is right and can do whatever they like, then you silently agree with acts of tierny, genocide, war crimes and terrorism. I must disagree with you that all of this is irrelivent, our country should be combating terrorism at home, which includes gang crimes. All democratic countries should continue to fight for the rights of the innocent against terrorism, and war.
 susan_cd
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 58
Our soldiers...Just what are they dying for
Posted: 12/7/2009 10:59:55 AM

don't see much difference between the mindset of terrorists and gang organizations. IMO gang members are terrorists in training.


Haywire, I can't imagine gang members here strapping a bunch of explosives around themself & detonating the explosives in Portage Place or atPolo Park ( or whereever).

But I like the idea of treating the gangs as terrorists; as long as the authorities are allowed to use deadly force when dealing with the gangs ( a group in a stolen vehiole is trying to elude the police? could be a car bomb, let's stop the vehicle any way we can... then there's no need to worry about the YCJA releasing the car thieves to steal another vehicle). A gang member in a house with a firearm? No need for a long drawn out event with negotiators; bring in a military team & let them deal with it. Again, the ridiculous YCJA won't be a hinderance.
 haywiresue
Joined: 9/27/2006
Msg: 59
Our soldiers...Just what are they dying for
Posted: 12/7/2009 11:57:55 AM
Susan CD - I see the brainwashing mindset similar in gangs to that of suicide bombers. Those who issue the orders to carry out terrorism are far removed and safe from the action being done on the gangs behalf. I agree and don't think any of the subordinates in gangs would strap explosives around themselves and detonating it, as they first of all are lead to believe that if they are doing a good job for the gang, they won't get caught. Also, gangs are into smaller crimes against fewer than 5 unarmed people as they have a pack mentality.

I have always believed that the police should police and the military be called in for their special forces expertise. Deadly force, I absolutely agree when a weapon is used or being threatened to be used in an act of crime/terror against an innocent and unarmed peron.

Most car chases end in damage or write off to the car, and many times innocent people have been injured or killed, so that turns a stolen vehicle a 2000 pound weapon, so I'm all for the police being allowed to disable the vehicle and be allowed to use any force up to and including deadly force to stop the crime. If this were the case, after a few of these incodents where the criminals are the biggest loosers, I think many criminals would change their minds about committing these crimes, and those who ride along for the thrill would not find this quite so entertaining.

I think that JCJA has a place, but once a child uses or intends to use a weapon to comit a crime or takes the life away from another in violence, that they are beyond the scope of the resources of the JCJA. The death penality does not have a record or repeat offenders..........unfortunately we cannot say the same for JCJA. Before the nails and the cross come out.............I prefer military boot camp for kids rather than the JCJA.
 susan_cd
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 60
Our soldiers...Just what are they dying for
Posted: 12/7/2009 12:09:59 PM
I agree that once violence has entered into the crime ( and merely stealing a vehicle & driving it should be considered a violent crime, since it can easily become a weapon) but unfortunetaly the YCJA ties the hands of the police & legal system.

Maybe the answer is a curfew ( perhaps 11 PM) for anyone under 18 unaccompanied by a parent or guardian. Then impose martial law between the hours of 11 PM and 6 or 7 PM. Anyone caught breaking the curfew will be charged under military law, not the civil law; thus the YCJA is removed from the equation.
 haywiresue
Joined: 9/27/2006
Msg: 62
Our soldiers...Just what are they dying for
Posted: 12/7/2009 2:29:12 PM
IMO curfew and martial law are no different than the gun permit joke that our ill advised legislaturers have created thinking it will curb crime with guns - it only punishes the law abiding citizens.

Huge joke about firearms registration - has anyone heard of a criminal filing the necessary papers and waiting the 14 or whatever number of days, after buying an illegal gun to commit a crime? No, its only the sport hunters, gun enthusiasts and collectors who respect firearms that are inconvienced and fund this program. Has anyone heard if a criminal who does not have a permit for their firearm or who cannot produce a legisitmate proof of purchase, ever get a fine thrown on top of whatever penality they face for the crimen the attempted or did use that firearm for? I don't think I can remember such a thing happening.

I believe the streets should be returned to the people - and not have people hide in their homes afraid to go out, or be terrorized by the criminal element. I can remember as a kid walking with my mom down Portage between Eatons and the Bay after the stores were closed looking in the store windows, enjoying the Xmas lights and trees and then going home by bus or being met by my dad who usually drove our car and then going to A&W at Polo Park for hot chocolate. We were never in fear the way people are now. This is sad, I don't understand why our government does not use our military resources and have men and women who are trained to deal with terrorists, patrol our streets and deal with those who terrorize the law abiding citizens. Great practice for overseas deployment of our troops and I think it would help more people appreciate the military and free up time for the police to work in areas of their expertice.
 susan_cd
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 63
Our soldiers...Just what are they dying for
Posted: 12/7/2009 2:50:35 PM

IMO curfew and martial law are no different than the gun permit joke that our ill advised legislaturers have created thinking it will curb crime with guns - it only punishes the law abiding citizens.



But a curfew & martial law won't cost the taxpayers hundreds of millions of dollars in administrative costs. And it won't punish the law abiding citizens, just those breaking the curfew. Or maybe the feds will show a glimmer of intelligence & get rid of the YCJA and the "catch & release" system it creates.
 haywiresue
Joined: 9/27/2006
Msg: 64
Our soldiers...Just what are they dying for
Posted: 12/7/2009 4:20:43 PM
Both curfew and martial law needs to be enforced and that is where the cost comes in, it requires supervision. Why should responsible kids have a curfew if they are not the problem?

For some kids, being allowed to acquire priviledges, which for some means staying out later, when they were not doing crimes doesn't hurt anyone ? I have been raised that with responsibility comes priviledge. My group of friends and I stayed out later than other kids, and we never got into any trouble. We did things like hang out at the local community centre, either on the field tossing or kicking some kind of ball around. Someone would bring a radio and we would just hang out listening to music in the bleachers, singing along with it, and talking about music, stars and things that interest kids, or dancing. My group of friends all had both parents that worked and we were required to not only do our homework, but get good grades, helpe with daily, weekly and seasonal chores around the house, assisted with siblings and started or made meals until our parents came home. After dinner, was our time to go out and we were all within yelling range on most days if any of our parents wanted us. We needed to be home by 10 pm on weekdays and midnight on weekends. There were times when the curfews were extended when we went roller skating and stayed for their late sessions the ended at midnight, or to late movies at local theatres. We were good enough to remain good, while being bad enough to have fun. We tried underage drinking, smoking, and other things kids get into and try. We survived and none of us wound up with addiction problems or did anything that put us behind bars.
 susan_cd
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 65
Our soldiers...Just what are they dying for
Posted: 12/7/2009 5:50:57 PM

Why should responsible kids have a curfew if they are not the problem?


But that argument can be used for most laws. Why should law abiding citizens have to register their firearms (which is all the gun registry does)? Criminals aren't about to register their weapons; so the registry just provides a list of the firearms in the possesion of law abiding citizens.

OK so skip the curfew, but have the city under martial law from 10 or 11 PM until 7 AM. Then if any youths break the law during this period we can still skip the YCJA and charge them under military justice. It'd be nice to see a 14 year old car thief suddenly realize they aren't going to face just a finger shaking at them, and the threat of a slap on the wrist ( but no actual slap, that'd be bad for their self esteem!!!) before being released into the public to steal more cars.
 Dudleyh45
Joined: 8/4/2008
Msg: 66
Our soldiers...Just what are they dying for
Posted: 12/7/2009 6:24:11 PM

Dudleyh45 - amazing you go from saying we were not involved in Vietnam and now you say we were, but won't admit it, but the veterans were honored with a memorial - man you are all over the map on this one. I don't believe that we took a cowardly stand, nor do any of our troops deployed as peacekeepers - so I think your comment is rude and distasteful to those who served

I think sue if you re-read my post slowly you will see that you have either misread it or misinterpreted it.Not all troops deployed as peace keepers feel the same about their job so your assumption that none of them feel we took a cowardly stand is a touch off. I have 2 brothers that are career military,one retired and one set to retire in a couple of years. Both have been on peace keeping missions and each has a different opinion of how involved we should be in each instance or if we should be at all. Being in the military does not mean they all think and act alike.

We have rules of conduct during times of war, and we have rules of conduct when we are not involved in war. We have the UN and war tribunals to deal with those who do not follow codes of conduct during war times.

So if we are at war and you happen to win i would be placed in your court and tried for war crimes although i don't adhere to your particular code of conduct.Would you be willing to submit yourself to my code of conduct under the same circumstance? Or are you saying the un and nato etc have authority over each governing body and can force them to do their will? If i don't sign up to play under your rules what exactly makes me subject to your rules?Seems to me the true crimminals are those who wish to force their ideology onto other cultures because they simply don't agree with how they live.
 haywiresue
Joined: 9/27/2006
Msg: 67
Our soldiers...Just what are they dying for
Posted: 12/8/2009 8:53:21 AM
One up..........in the military, or in any job there are questions, disagreement and people wonder all the time why they are doing what they are doing. That goes without saying. However, I quoted the words you used and responded, if I did not get your point, try using those same words and provide clarity for me.

You have no concept of what a war criminal is or the rules of war, based on your 2nd statement after the cut and paste. Please google this information and come to party ready to dance.

Susan CD, to bring our comments about local criminals in line and on topic, I don't think the soldiers who served, and those who lost their lives abroad for democracy would be happy with what is going on at home when it comes to crime, and the way criminals terrorize people. If not dealt with, in time our country could become oppressed the same way countries are that we send our troops to. IMO I don't think the government are using all resources available to them, and our lawmakers are too afraid to do what is necessary to eliminate crime/terrorism.
 susan_cd
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 68
Our soldiers...Just what are they dying for
Posted: 12/8/2009 10:31:18 AM

IMO I don't think the government are using all resources available to them, and our lawmakers are too afraid to do what is necessary to eliminate crime/terrorism.


And thanks to the bleeding heart "those kids aren't criminals, they're just misunderstood/bored/from a broken home" liberals that support the YCJA the situation won't be changing until THEIR children are getting stabbed & shot in the streets, THEIR homes are getting invaded, and THEIR houses are being set ablaze.

Then they'll be crying out to the same authorities (that are trapped in the catch & release/ don't punish, rehabilitate hole) "why aren't you protecting us & locking up these thugs?".

But as long as these crimes happen out of their sight in the north end & similar areas, then they don't see the problem since their ivory towers aren't being splattered with blood. ( besides, it's just the gang members & low life rabble that are geting harmed, so what's the problem? )
 haywiresue
Joined: 9/27/2006
Msg: 69
Our soldiers...Just what are they dying for
Posted: 12/8/2009 12:16:15 PM
I think we are getting off topic after I related gang and criminal activities to terrorism. We have discussed that and I think if conversation about criminals, YCJA, and gangs is to continue, it needs a thread of its own. I don't want it to appear that this thread is being hijacked. I would be happy to continue conversations that have been inspired from the original subject.
JMHO
 susan_cd
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 70
Our soldiers...Just what are they dying for
Posted: 12/8/2009 2:09:02 PM
I was thinking the same thing.

But to simplify things, if we're going to think of gang members as being terrorists then there's only 1 solution. A terrorist is like a rabid dog, your only options are to avoid it or kill it. Since we can't avoid the terrorists ( they have stated Canada is on their list of targets) then we have to send troops to Afghanistan to do what they can to destroy the terrorists.
 haywiresue
Joined: 9/27/2006
Msg: 71
Our soldiers...Just what are they dying for
Posted: 12/9/2009 2:31:02 PM
The following was reported by Reuters today and is shown on the Yahoo Newspage. I will be following this story and would like more details before I make a decision about who is at fault. There is a long line in the chain of command and it will be interesting to see just how far up this goes and who is really to fault, if this is true. I think calling for Harpers resignation is so...............schoolyard until after an enquiry was completed and evidence of who the responsible person/s are.

(Reuters) - In a major embarrassment for the government, Canada's top soldier unexpectedly revealed on Wednesday that some Canadian troops had known detainees handed over to Afghan authorities could be abused.

The announcement by General Walt Natynczyk effectively swept away the long-held official line that there was no credible evidence prisoners might be harmed.

Legal experts say handing over detainees in the knowledge they could be abused is a war crime.

The opposition Liberal Party stepped up demands for a formal inquiry and said Defense Minister Peter MacKay should resign over the affair.

The ruling Conservatives, although still ahead of the Liberals, have slipped in recent polls amid intense media coverage of the abuse allegations.

MacKay has repeatedly told the House of Commons there is no evidence that soldiers knew prisoners might be abused. Last month MacKay and senior officials publicly denigrated a Canadian diplomat based in Afghanistan who said he had repeatedly warned of the risk of torture in 2006 and 2007.

A contrite Natynczyk said on Wednesday he had just received information about an incident in southern Afghanistan in June 2006 that showed soldiers knew what could happen to detainees.

Reading from the field notes from an officer after troops arrested an Afghan man, he said: "We then photographed the individual prior to handing him over to ensure that if the Afghan National Police did assault him, as has happened in the past, that we would have a visual record of his condition."

Natynczyk said he would launch a full inquiry to discover why the additional information had only come to light now.

Canada has 2,800 troops in Afghanistan on a combat mission that is due to end in 2011. So far 133 soldiers have died and recent polls show support for the mission is slipping.

Liberal leader Michael Ignatieff said the comments showed that neither the government nor MacKay could be trusted.

"When will the prime minister fire him and call a full independent and public inquiry?" he asked in Parliament.

Prime Minister Stephen Harper brushed off demands for a probe, replying that the military had acted correctly.

"The opposition is accusing our soldiers of committing war crimes," he said in comments that were partly drowned out by loud shouts and catcalls from opposition legislators.

When MacKay stood up to speak, he was greeted by bellows of "Resign" and "It's over."

The military has already said the detainee was abused by the Afghan Police. Canadian troops later rescued him.

Natynczyk, and government ministers, initially said the man was arrested by Afghan troops taking part in a joint operation and was never in Canadian custody.

"I want to correct my statement ... the individual who was beaten by Afghan police was in fact in Canadian custody and then the (police) took control of him," said Natynczyk.

MacKay, Foreign Minister Lawrence Cannon and former Defense Minister Gordon O'Connor are due to testify to a House of Commons committee on Afghanistan later on Wednesday.
 susan_cd
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 72
Our soldiers...Just what are they dying for
Posted: 12/9/2009 10:33:45 PM

Canada's top soldier unexpectedly revealed on Wednesday that some Canadian troops had known detainees handed over to Afghan authorities could be abused.


And why does the govt. have so much concern about what happens to the detainees that were fighting our troops? Shouldn't the govt. be more concerned with how safe our streets and homes are?

I guess the lesson here for our troops is "NO PRISONERS!"
 haywiresue
Joined: 9/27/2006
Msg: 73
Our soldiers...Just what are they dying for
Posted: 12/10/2009 9:47:56 AM
Our soldiers are involved in the training of Afgan police and military based on democratic models. Unfortunately due to the abuse, terrorism and lack of concern for human life in that country, there are bound to be some Afgans that can't/don't/won't do things the way they are being taught. There is a lot being thrown at the people in Afghanistan, democracy takes time, because these people have to re-learn the ways their country operated for decades. There are bound to be problems as this is major rehabilitation in their ways of life, and not all will embrace and welcome it. An example that is easy to relate to this point is, think of how so many of the older generation refused to use a computer, to this day, there are many that want nothing to do with them.

I believe that Canada is being pointed out at being the bad guy here, when reports of thoughts/fears of abuse have been surfacing since the story broke. This is a very delicate situation, as the Afgans need to find their sense of authority while the Taliban is still out there and a threat, and they are being taught democratic police and military authority in a country that has not fully embraced democracy. Hard call about punishing anyone for war crimes in this environment. Many of the Afgan police have had to live by way of the gun, so this may take time. Its one thing to go after the heads of Al Quada and the Taliban, but its another to guide the country into democracy.

I would like to see the abusers held accountable and punished for their actions, but not as war criminals.

I believe this is one of the growing pains that comes with Democracy, its no different than the early days of the 13 Colonies in the US, or struggles between the English and French here in Canada. It all takes time.

Personally I like the "no prisoners" theory, but the line is so thin between that and the genocide that goes on in Rhwanda. I don't think any of us want that.
 susan_cd
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 74
Our soldiers...Just what are they dying for
Posted: 12/10/2009 8:59:42 PM

Personally I like the "no prisoners" theory, but the line is so thin between that and the genocide that goes on in Rhwanda.


But there's a difference between killing someone who's attacking you ( either directly or by using bombs) rather than taking them as prisoners and seeking out a specific race/culture & killing them because they are that race or culture.
 Heavencalling
Joined: 8/28/2011
Msg: 75
Our soldiers...Just what are they dying for
Posted: 10/14/2011 2:11:35 PM
My nephew fought in that war. He was one of the guys that survived the bombing that killed his 3 partners in the blast. He is now working for the Winnipeg Police. It hurts my heart and I have tears still thinking of waiting for the call, even though that was years ago. Countries have been killing each other for religion and freedoms for years. I don't think we should have gotten involved. We are supposed to be PeaceKeepers.

When I watched his 3 friends go down the Highway of Heros, I Prayed for them and Thanked God my nephew survived unharmed, not a scratch on him.

Bin Laden is dead now but there is always another crazy person to take his place. Leave them to kill themselves, they have been doing it for over 2000 years. We can't change them.
 88Steve
Joined: 4/12/2008
Msg: 76
view profile
History
Our soldiers...Just what are they dying for
Posted: 11/26/2011 7:07:54 PM
"FREEEEEEDOM!" - William Wallace, Brave Heart

Trolololol
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