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 Secondhand_Lion
Joined: 11/10/2008
Msg: 276
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History
Jesus was a SocialistPage 17 of 22    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22)
Oh Goodness....Jesus again? What ever happened to the "Great Pumpkin"....I thought Charlie Brown was really on to something.
 JustDukky
Joined: 7/8/2004
Msg: 277
Jesus was a Socialist
Posted: 11/24/2009 4:19:43 AM
@ Krebby

You throw the church a grand or two, you're blessed.

There's no need to squander all that hard earned money. If you're interested, I'll bless you for $99.95 AND provide you with a certificate of my existence and authenticity to frame and display with your blessing! (It's a little deal I made with the Franklin Mint)...Let's see God or some piker church beat that! Hah!

Have a beer & think it over....
 8765649326
Joined: 9/29/2009
Msg: 278
Jesus was a Socialist
Posted: 11/24/2009 12:45:49 PM
you didn't know dyk

you would have to seek resolve within your own wiery existance
to be able to accept love and forgiveness.....Right dky

If ya fall in a River and can't swim....
plain and simply you Drown!

.....I see someone else is desperately(pinkelephantsyndrome)
treading water..............to regain her status of meaningless...
 8765649326
Joined: 9/29/2009
Msg: 279
Jesus was a Socialist
Posted: 11/24/2009 12:50:39 PM
Can I call you Ed?
Sorry but nothing I can do about the chains you are
bound in!

Now don't make me pull out that excorcism again!

 8765649326
Joined: 9/29/2009
Msg: 280
Jesus was a Socialist
Posted: 11/24/2009 12:59:16 PM
gee thanks kreb for that enlightening source of fiction!
But upon deciphering your attempt once again to place yourself
on solid grounds! I would have to conclude that the
term filthyanimals would rather be a metaphor for the
likes of persons' as you.

 8765649326
Joined: 9/29/2009
Msg: 281
Jesus was a Socialist
Posted: 11/24/2009 1:12:29 PM
oh my Thorn
Can you just try to pray a little for clarity of thought
before posting again!

 8765649326
Joined: 9/29/2009
Msg: 282
Jesus was a Socialist
Posted: 11/24/2009 1:20:25 PM
so sorry thorb did you just wish to be alone with
your distortion of meaningless thought- maybe you would benefit
from journal writing........? self-analysis?
 Secondhand_Lion
Joined: 11/10/2008
Msg: 283
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History
Jesus was a Socialist
Posted: 11/24/2009 10:07:37 PM
^^^Looks like heaven is going to be full of people that stick their tongues out, do the self rightous snickering, and throw insults around. I don't think I could handle eternity with that kind of company.....Anyway, the Great Pumpkin has a better deal for me and Charlie Brown....it's even safe for children!
 8765649326
Joined: 9/29/2009
Msg: 284
Jesus was a Socialist
Posted: 11/25/2009 9:32:44 AM
mtnlvr No worrys' mate you not gonna make it there anyway!
oh and an extra one for your continued journey of
non-eternal......
 8765649326
Joined: 9/29/2009
Msg: 285
Jesus was a Socialist
Posted: 11/25/2009 9:44:21 AM
^^krab
you said:'the integrity of pof'
Of course with your amazing intellectual and mature written material,
How could we possibly not believe that?

'as kreb sits curled up in the corner rocking back and forth uncontrollably...
singing &
'I wanna know what love is'



becareful though.....you could soon end up krebinthe wall like danielle..
scratching your way through just like you do on here!

 8765649326
Joined: 9/29/2009
Msg: 286
Jesus was a Socialist
Posted: 11/25/2009 10:29:00 AM
krab wow to get such an out of control reaction-
I must of struck the hidden cord!!

 8765649326
Joined: 9/29/2009
Msg: 287
Jesus was a Socialist
Posted: 11/25/2009 10:36:53 AM
^^^ on the 2 PHD's- and when ya get that refund maybe
you can give it to the church huh Krab!

ur ingnorance makes this all worth it!
Laughter is good for the soul...
 8765649326
Joined: 9/29/2009
Msg: 288
Jesus was a Socialist
Posted: 11/25/2009 10:42:54 AM
Gotta stone to throw 'burntoutspark'
better clean up your own doorstep first!

Just cause you can't handle my spark! quit pretending yours'
is lit!

 hungry_joe
Joined: 6/24/2006
Msg: 289
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History
Jesus was a Socialist
Posted: 11/27/2009 1:31:27 PM
On public goods those Interstates that you drove the materials to the Displaced Americans of Hurricane Katrina were public goods, i.e. tax payer funded goods for the general use of the public. It was those same Interstates that brought the trail elements of my troopers to New Orleans. As were my UH-60 helicopters where were the lead element. So there is a place for some government spending. The Constitution also, mandates we spend for Art, and Science, as well as Defense.

An under-ground economy (black market) is all around us. Usually in economically deprived/underdeveloped regions. Not all black market activities are illiecit in scope and nature. An example of this, at a local gas station in Fayetteville, young men will often purchase a pack of cigerettes, and sell the individual (square/short) for a 0.25. This in itself is not illegal. Because the tax has been paid, and the individual is now just charging a convenience fee for the individual smoke.
Or the woman that will do corn-rolls for $100 a session. This is all under the table non-reportable money. There dozens of legal street hussels going on in the underground economy. Some is to survive, some is to make an easy buck, some is to get over on uncle Sam.

For Dukky, I heard on radio as I was driving home from MD, that the Founders and the Enlightenment movement (natural law) were informed by Biblical verse. And Judo-Christian philosophy. They even said that you'd find Biblical quotes in Montesquieu, and Locke. With that in mind, that would change the debate of Jesus, of Socialist thinker, to more Egalitarian, Classic Humanist?
 merelymortal
Joined: 11/24/2009
Msg: 290
Jesus was a Socialist
Posted: 11/27/2009 1:59:08 PM
The enlightenment thinkers didn't base their philosophies on Jesus though, they based it on reality, you can tear a verse out of pretty much any religious text and claim that since it supports your political beliefs that the whole religion is compatible, but that doesn't make it true.

Its also popular to say, and I've heard it on the radio before, that the US was formed upon puritan values, but that isn't true at all either, but people buy it and some people like to hear it because they think the puritans were quaint, harmless, and adorable, not the intolerant and dangerously ignorant people they really were... I mean, why else would a whole continent made up of the then most tolerant people on earth not have any space for them? They were persecuted, not for their tolerance, but for their intolerance to others.

The enlightenment thinkers were not all like minded, but to speak for Locke in particular, he was a non-believer.

Ever read his writings on the nature of religious tolerance and intolerance? They were the guide for secularism and were the beginning of the end for religion dominating society, and Locke knew it. Locke tore a page from the bible and used it as a weapon against the rest of the bible, if that makes him a believer... I'm not sure what to say, but I don't buy that a true believer could do something like that and feel OK about it.
 8765649326
Joined: 9/29/2009
Msg: 291
Jesus is the birth of Salvation!
Posted: 11/27/2009 5:22:27 PM
krab glad to see you are at least trying to come
to terms with your anger-way to go!

and you learned how to use those emoticons- thats just
great!

 8765649326
Joined: 9/29/2009
Msg: 292
Jesus is the birth of Salvation!
Posted: 11/27/2009 6:21:01 PM
krab I sure do hope your nephews are able to visit
you 'while you hanging around the insane asylums'

say a prayer close your eyes if it helps....
then maybe they take the straight jacket off ya!
 8765649326
Joined: 9/29/2009
Msg: 293
Jesus is the birth of Salvation!
Posted: 11/27/2009 7:44:02 PM
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 hungry_joe
Joined: 6/24/2006
Msg: 294
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History
Jesus is the birth of Salvation!
Posted: 11/28/2009 3:26:49 AM
Going back to the Enlightenment. I didn't know what John Locke's religious beliefs were, I thought he might have been a Deist. However, that is inconsequential. The larger point that I was making the foundations of the dominate philosophical trend of the American Revolution were informed on Bible. If we take out the religion (I know it is difficult) you can see a understanding of human nature, interaction, and governance in it. Therefore it would make sense that this would inform a learned man's (of the era) thoughts.

I do find it interesting that the early Calvinist (Purtain) Pilgram settlers of this nation experimented with a form of collectivism. Like many here they felt that this would be outstanding model to return to early (pure) church teachings and practices. They later discovered that this has a disasterious effect on incentive, and production. They quickly abandoned the commune idea in exchange of individual property rights, which lead to a sucessful colony.

As to the Purtains. Are we talking about the Church of England Purtains? Are we talking about the Calvinists (Pilgrams)? They are two different groups, from different eras and goals. You see the Pilgrams were more Scottish in nature. They left the England, and the Greater United Kingdom to avoid religious persecution. It was in the late 1630's in which the Monarchy was trying to Establish absolute control and authority of religion making the Anglican (Episcoplian) Church the church of the kingdom. This would be Roman Catholicism light (Less the Pope) Whereas, the Calvinist Church was a Protestant religion popular in the Scottish Regions of the Island nation that believed in pre-determination of the Elect. In other-words, at the moment of conception God knew if you were destined to go to Heaven, or Eternal Damnation of Hell. This sect wasn't very popular, because you had to be very good, and pious yet you still could go to Hell after all that work. The reason that the Pilgrams orginally traveled to Holland before making the trip to the Americas on the Mayflower is that is where this is where this religious movement began. Though the Dutch being being the famous tolerant people that they are the Calvinist were unhappy that they had to learn new ways, and customs, and there children were becoming Dutch. So this investment firm funded a trip to establish a permenate colony in the Americas. If you want to have any idea of what these anti-baptists (Calvinist) look like travel to Lancaster, PA to Dutch country and say hi to the plain people. The Almish, and the Meniote religions are direct decendents of the Calvinist movement of the 1600's.

The the Purtains on the other hand were a group that were to follow later. That wished to purify the Church of England. In other-words, they wanted to take a lot of the pomp, and ritual out of the worship. Remember that I said that the Church of England is Roman Catholicism, without the pontiff. The Purtains wished to have a more scripture driven, worship where the locus of the service was on the word, and not the Eucharist. It is from this fervent focus, on scripture study that the notion of Tithe, and blessings becomes popularized. In the old Testament in Deuteronomy it is said the 10% of your earnings should go to support the Church (Priest class). So the harder you work, the more you can make, the more you make, the more you can tithe, the more you tithe, the more God will love you. So goes the thinking. However, nowhere in the Bible does it say thou, shall be wealthy. I could go on and on, but this post it becoming much too long. I do find some irony that the Western Schism started over symoney (sp ) (selling of indulgences) and we just changed it to tithe.
 milt_n_bradley
Joined: 10/14/2009
Msg: 295
Hmm
Posted: 11/28/2009 4:13:29 AM
If jesus did exist,it's doubtful that his philosophies could be boiled down to mere political ideology.
That is...unless his adherents are again selling him short.
Like when they presume that he was/is obsessed w/ sex....particularly non-mainstream sex.
 8765649326
Joined: 9/29/2009
Msg: 296
Jesus is the birth of Salvation!
Posted: 11/29/2009 1:59:48 PM
Jesus was never obsessed with anything......He is not
warped like many on these philosophy forums!

He merely pointed out the extreme weakness's of Mankind..
(notice he blames the man )
all sin leads to obsessing and wanting more , eg:
money, sexual, ect. which leads to self-destruction!


Jesus Is the Birth Of Salvation!

man is the birth of confusion and ignorance.....
Without God 'We are Nothing' more than the sand
I have brushed from my feet!

 8765649326
Joined: 9/29/2009
Msg: 297
Jesus was a Socialist
Posted: 11/30/2009 3:02:24 PM
^^^to speak the word Normally? wouldn't one have to bare some kind of
resemblance to what in fact is 'Normal'????
 acuddler
Joined: 10/30/2009
Msg: 298
Jesus was a Socialist
Posted: 11/30/2009 6:23:52 PM
A.F.D - first, Jesus was not a socialist, or a pacifist. Read how he whipped the money changers, and will throw many into The Lake Of Fire on Judgement Day. There is a time to every purpose...turning the other cheek, AND destroying enemies...everything in it's time.

Even if Jesus were a socialist, what of it? That doesn't mean we can be let alone that we should be.

If Jesus WERE who/what he claimed to be-God in human form-He had infinite power, and infinite resources, so Socialism would work for him. We lack such resources / power, so Socialism can not work for us. The demand will always ultimately outstrip the supply.

If Jesus WAS NOT who/what he claimed to be then he was just an insane Jewish carpenter who abandoned his trade to pose as deity. As such, his opinion-on anything-is worthless. He did not even know who/what he was, let alone what he was talking about.

Either way, Jesus is not an excuse to try Socialism.

BTW CAPITALISM is ECONOMIC, while SOCIALISM is POLITICAL. One can be Capitalist with, or without, being Socialist...or be Socialist with, or without, being Capitalist...in the generally accepted sense of the terms.

In fact, the universe is Capitalistic...even with no people/governments in it. Chemical reactions in lifeless space have a price to pay for making/breaking chemical bonds. The price is in heat gain, or heat loss. Gain, and loss, are Capitalistic principles. There is, thus, no escape from capitalism,and non/anti-Capitalistic forms of government/etc are impossible.

In fact, one can never have pure Socialism, pure Capitalism, pure Democracy, etc. The best we can achieve is a blending of several things...with each blend being different from another. The Swiss form of Democracy differs from that of The USA, which differs from that of the Algonquin Indians, which differs from that of the ancient Greeks. The Socialism we now have in America is different from that once existing in the USSR. The blending of various social/political/economic forms is an art in itself...and some work better than others. What works best with a small population does not always work best with a large population. What works best in metropolitan areas does not work best in rural areas.

The Great god Karl Marx was a rich Capitalist who proved that he knows nothing about economics, or politics. He thought he knew all the answers, but proved that he did not even know the questions. Follow him at your own peril.
 Earthpuppy
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 299
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History
Jesus was a Socialist
Posted: 12/1/2009 7:01:02 PM
Lost in this thread, was the contention that anyone left of Rush Limbaugh and Coulterguist is somehow now a "socialist" in America. By their definitions, Jesus was a raging socialist given his teachings and scriptures, and parables.

The bar of what is "socialist" keeps moving farther and farther to the right, where Dwight, Barry,**** and even Ronny would not meet the new standard. If Jesus showed up and spouted his librul, lovey-dovey, socialist agenda, he would be nailed on a cross all over again by the far right.

“Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies in the final sense a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.” Dwight D. Eisenhower, who went on to build the socialist interstate highway system of the US.
There was Teddy Roosevelt with his vision of socialized public lands. Nixon with his EPA, ESA and Clean Water Act. Goldwater, anticipating the far right nanny state.."They have no damn right to interfere in our free right to do as we damn well please."
Even Ronny...with his redistribution of wealth, would be seen as a socialist in the current whirled of wepublican far wighters. The bar is moving so fast that these guys would be strung up on the hill along side their Christ.
http://www.laprogressive.com/2009/03/30/reagan-the-socialist-nixon-the-commie-eisenhower-the-quisling/
 Earthpuppy
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 300
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History
Jesus was a Socialist
Posted: 1/28/2010 6:38:18 PM
Wilberforce, while a champion against slavery, was also a champion for theocracy. His anti-slavery stance was in great part dictated by his evangelicalism, and perhaps somewhat cynically an opening to push his brand of Christianity and theocracy across the "dark continent" via the Church Mission Society. He also had a domestic agenda to force Sabbath rules on society, had little respect for the working classes at home, supported the suspension of Habeus Corpus, supported the "patriot act" of his day, was anti-union, a misogynist, and held a double standard for the sins of the poor vs. the ruling classes.

I would say that Jesus would have thought him to be another hypocrite, wearing his faith on his sleeve, getting half of what was said in the Beatitudes, and using his position for his own greater glory, a bit more than warranted by his "good" deeds. He was, though, a man of his times. We shall give him that.
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