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 8765649326
Joined: 9/29/2009
Msg: 98
Jesus was a SocialistPage 4 of 22    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22)
Did you find my statement ridiculing? or insulting? it was simply a matter of fact.
But then again you two seem to misinterpret alot don't you?

well have fun on your date!!

back to the subject at hand:

Jesus Is the Son of God. Everything else is Just a Toy!:grin:

 sweetbilly3Am
Joined: 9/6/2005
Msg: 99
Jesus was a Socialist
Posted: 11/5/2009 6:19:01 PM
I couldn't go without correcting this. You've got to be kidding right? Jesus was not a socialist neither was he a pacifist, read revelations for the pacifist part. He seems pretty angry to me.

For the socialism: The point behind these scriptures, which you obviously missed, was that the fight of Christians was not against each other people but against the powers and principalities of this world which make up the rules of this world ...which were covered in the scriptures you so conveniently left out. Do you really think Christ would have said submit yourself to non-Christian heathens who drive knowledge of himself out of society? No.

Free will is the ultimate expression of love given by God, what father would give his child a rock if he asks for food? What person would force their beliefs on another and claim it was done out of love? None. Socialism/communism is about power not about love, Satan is about control and power, just look at Islam they're socialist they hate everyone and they suffer horribly. Show me one communist or socialist society that has ever matched the success of this nation?? There are none, so obviously they didn't have Gods blessings to be socialist or communist did they? How could another person decide what is right for you when no one on this planet can run their own lives without turmoil and grief??

It's impossible to read the scriptures the way you just did, simply because that's not what Jesus said. Jesus was not a communist nor a socialist, nor was he a pacifist. In fact he represented a MAJOR threat to Rome. He didn't want anyone to submit to anything but him, that's why being saved is your choice and not the states. That's an example of God holding the power of the sate back. If it was up to the state NO ONE would be Christian therefore everyone would go to hell. But God gave man the freedom of choice to choose him. Socialism doesn't give choice's. He was telling you to make moral choices based upon your own free will. You simply didn't understand him.

BTW Jesus did chase them out of the temple. He also over turned their tables and called them names! Doesn't sound like a pacifist to me.
 8765649326
Joined: 9/29/2009
Msg: 100
Jesus was a Socialist
Posted: 11/5/2009 6:39:35 PM
sweetbilly omg ok lol
although I applaude your post for the exception of Jesus's anger as pacifist
or turning over the tables and calling names?

Gods' anger is on unrighteousness and sin as written in revelations....
It is the final warning to mankind to shape up or get shipped out!
He is God his mercy and forgiveness is for all that ask of him ....
and choose deliverance.

God has nothing to prove to any of us.......but we do to him!

as for the turning of the tables......again against unrighteousness...
anger is an emotion best demonstrated against that which
is not righteousness.
he did not call names yet informed them of the sinful actions
they had committed.

As believers' he calls us as well to correct the wrongs!

and if the boat doesn't sail..........wipe the dust off......

 8765649326
Joined: 9/29/2009
Msg: 101
Jesus was a Socialist
Posted: 11/5/2009 6:47:43 PM
ya paul blah blah blah without any apparent knowledge within the walls of your
wiery soul, I would expect that post to go right o'er yer head

whats the matter can't get that boat in the water?
 8765649326
Joined: 9/29/2009
Msg: 102
Jesus was a Socialist
Posted: 11/5/2009 6:54:19 PM
Paul you need to pray for the wisdom to know the difference!

as for the dust........Oh I wiped that off a long time ago....
sailing solo these days are ya

 monalee1
Joined: 10/22/2007
Msg: 103
Jesus was a Socialist
Posted: 11/5/2009 7:02:06 PM
"Relax, Mona, God has a great sense of humor............. looked around lately"

... you relax in regard to me, I am not your judge.... I tell my teen that it is only funny when everyone is having fun .. are you certain that Jesus appreciated your comment or that God of The Universe sees humour in blasphemy... all that I know is that I did not find it funny and I am only human... blessings for wisdom
 sweetbilly3Am
Joined: 9/6/2005
Msg: 104
Jesus was a Socialist
Posted: 11/5/2009 7:03:05 PM
I'm sorry kizz but he did call them names, read it again, he called them a "brood of vipers" ...and yes it was for only sinful people you're right, because they turned Gods temple into a supermarket. They were playing Catholic, people were buying themselves out of hell for a few bucks.

I agree with almost everything you said, he is a God of mercy and love but he is also the God of vengeance and wrath. We Christians forget that at times. God said himself he is never changing, so if he turned over tables on the temple mount in anger I believe he'd turn them over now too. I just hate this idea that everyone tries to place God in the category of a pacifist and doing anything else means he can't be God, or that it's some kind of sin to be angry. He's not, and it's not sinful to not be a pacifist or full of righteous wrath and vengeance either.

Does he have something to prove in the end times?? I don't know, he certainly pours out tremendous pain on what's left of man, that seems pretty flamboyant to me. I don't think he takes any pleasure in it, yet he seems to enjoy punishing the wicked. If you had nothing to prove, why pour out your wrath, why not just send them to hell and be finished with it?? He's proving he's God!
 sweetbilly3Am
Joined: 9/6/2005
Msg: 105
Jesus was a Socialist
Posted: 11/5/2009 7:08:48 PM
I meant Roman Catholic, not just Catholic sorry :P And I don't dislike Roman Catholics either (so please don't send me hate mail), I just think their view of God is quite skewed from my understanding of scripture ...like most the rest of man. Just had to correct myself.
 hungry_joe
Joined: 6/24/2006
Msg: 106
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History
Jesus was a Socialist
Posted: 11/5/2009 7:12:58 PM
More Angry Jesus: Matthew 10 34-36 Do not think that I have come to bring peace upn the earth. I hve come to bring not peace but the sword. For I hve come to set a man "against his father, a daughter agaisnst her mothere. and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and one's enemies will be those of his household.

MT 17 24-27 Paraphrase: Doesn't your teacher pay the temple tax?...From whomdo the kings of the earth take tolls or census tax? From their subjects or foreigners? Peter From Foreigners. Then subjects are exempt. But that we may not offfend them... go catch a fish open its mouth, and you will find a coin twice the value of the tax and give to them for me and you.

MT 21 18 20 Jesus was hungry he came across a fig tree without fruit. And he said "May no fruit ever come from you again" And immediately the fig gree withered .

There's loads more examples. Jesus wasn't a soicalist. He was trying to remind people about the ways of God. It isn't an easy road to travel.

Oh I'm Roman Catholic, and I don't feel that I'm skewed in my thinking. I also think that I am holding my own in this discussion. We read the Bible too.
 sweetbilly3Am
Joined: 9/6/2005
Msg: 107
Jesus was a Socialist
Posted: 11/5/2009 7:16:34 PM
Sure many things can be taken out of context krebby but I don't think God meant for scripture to be read other than the way he intended! That's why Islam is dead set on destroying the west, because they changed scripture. You have to be very careful when you play with scripture, if God said it isn't so then it isn't.
 monalee1
Joined: 10/22/2007
Msg: 108
Jesus was a Socialist
Posted: 11/5/2009 7:17:49 PM
"Does he have something to prove in the end times?? I don't know, he certainly pours out tremendous pain on what's left of man, that seems pretty flamboyant to me. I don't think he takes any pleasure in it, yet he seems to enjoy punishing the wicked. If you had nothing to prove, why pour out your wrath, why not just send them to hell and be finished with it?? He's proving he's God!"

I can agree with a lot of things that you have posted but to this comment I disagree 100%... the wages of sin is death and Truth makes us free... God does not have to prove anything to man, other worlds and heavenly angels obey His Law and worship Him as God... satan was granted power only for a ~short~ time, how do we like satans government ??.. I do not, I choose Gods Government and I pray for Its Soon Coming.... blessings
 sweetbilly3Am
Joined: 9/6/2005
Msg: 109
Jesus was a Socialist
Posted: 11/5/2009 7:21:22 PM
Totally agree gadgetdoc, it's not a sin to have righteous indignation and be angry. It's just not. The question is "does mas have the wisdom and knowledge necessary to impose justice" on other men? IMO No man doesn't! Therefore man can not be perfect, but God because he is omnipotent and knows mans heart can be absolutely perfect in his judgment even if it involves anger and wrath and calling people names.
 sweetbilly3Am
Joined: 9/6/2005
Msg: 110
Jesus was a Socialist
Posted: 11/5/2009 7:34:17 PM
Sure I agree, he doesn't have to prove anything to believers but ask yourself who he is punishing in this scenario and why he's punishing them??? It isn't Christians or believers, it's the non-believers that rejected him, even after seeing with their own eyes. I think in Revelation he is so flamboyant it's almost over the top ...I think it's for a reason, to prove he is god to the non-believers. Remember, the opportunity to be saved is over at this time. God isn't hiding from man, man is rejecting God. What better punishment to dish out to your enemies than to lay the smack down! Remember God said he can be jealous too!

And once again, appeasing to the palate or not I think it's perfectly just for him to prove that he is God. Isn't that not why Jesus came, to prove he was God? Of course he came to show Gods loving side, but there are certain people who just will not accept that. I prolly digressed a little from the topic of this post, but it was just to prove my point.
 sweetbilly3Am
Joined: 9/6/2005
Msg: 111
Jesus was a Socialist
Posted: 11/5/2009 7:56:06 PM
Yes, but you have taken into consideration that there are people who have dedicated their entire lives studying the bible for more than 2000 years, (actually more than 5000 years) and while some of the bible is still a mystery, I admit, how God wants man to live his life is not a mystery. He was perfectly clear, he had to be for man to be saved! You have to take into consideration the language, the time, the area, the beliefs etc.. It's very complicated, but we really don't question the most simplistic aspects of what God meant. For everything that can be questioned God gave man an answer in the bible. It is a very, very deep book. God said he engraved Gods law in man heart.

I'm not dictating anything to anyone, God is. I'm simply telling you there is no way to re-interpret what he said, socialism is not ok ...he warned man not to change his words for this very reason! Catholics added scriptures which other felt were not written by God, the Apocrypha, the Muslims added Muhammad etc... You have to literally read the scriptures and interpret them correctly to know what fits and what doesn't with the world, and every scripture is dependent on he correct interpretation of every other scripture. That's what prophecy is for, to figure out which interpretation is correct!! Such as Genesis 1, which includes the description of Pangaea. When we find it in the natural world that's how we know we have the correct interpretation.
 hungry_joe
Joined: 6/24/2006
Msg: 112
view profile
History
Jesus was a Socialist
Posted: 11/5/2009 8:38:42 PM
The Approchial Gospels were the books not orginally included in the Cannon of the the Bible at the council of Nicea. However catholic with the little "c" means universal, which all Christains belonged to by the rule of Constine, the first Christian Emperor. So all Christians were Catholics at one point. I think it was the Council of Trent that we had the Eastern Schism, (I may have the wrong Eccumenical council). That said that the Catholic bible is the frist Cannon, which wasn't "added" to. Prior to the Catholic Bible there wasn't a Bible just a collection of different letters, gospels, and legends held by the individual churches. But the books that you refer to are books of the old Testament Tobit and Esther.

I don't know Hebrew, but I do know that the old Testament is several Jewish books, the Torah, and Tannicak. Then you also have poetry in it, think Palsms, and the Song of Songs. Of course you have some Jewish history there too, Samuel, Kings, and Chronicals. Also when reading the old Testament you have to know what was happening in Ancient history such as the Babolyian exile. Daniel, Lamentations, Hosea, Maccebes..etc.

Then you have the various translations of the bible. You have the Ancient Greek, Translated into the Vulgate Latin, and you have some documents in Arimaic, and Hebrew. Much of what you read depends on who is doing the Translation. While the KJB is the first English translation, being the first there are many mistranslations in it.

Then we can get into what Christ means. The anointed. Who was anointed? Both kings, and the preist Class. This is why Jesus is often refered to as Christ, because he is both king and Cheif Priest.
 PetalPi
Joined: 10/23/2009
Msg: 113
Jesus was a Socialist
Posted: 11/5/2009 9:28:06 PM
Jesus was a realist. He saw the hypocritical things being done in the name of goodness and he was poor compared to the Priest caste. So his take on things is easily related to. I've often wondered at a man who did everything he could to get himself crucified.... was it a form of heroic masochism? And there's no doubt that until The Council of Nicea in about 300AD, his sayings were word of mouth and then finally we had an English version of the Bible... but after such a long time, surely it was a bit like Chinese whispers? And what has always intrigued me is where was he for those 30 plus years that he was absent from Palestine? He was a realist and a good man and if it all happened for the first time now, I think it would be even worse! They were barbaric times he lived in and they still are in the Middle East. Terrible terrible things have been done in the name of Christianity and they still are , more subtly but prejudiced against those 'they' see as sinners. How pompous! I was with a group of Chritians and the town Prostitute had died. I made it my business to find out more about her. Hers was a tragic story, no time for details, and this moralistic prick was holding forth on how he just couldn't bring himself to mourn for her, she was such a sinner ... blah blah. He must have forgotten Jesus' attitude to the 'woman taken in adultery' !!!
 Verzen
Joined: 12/9/2007
Msg: 114
Jesus was a Socialist
Posted: 11/6/2009 2:12:15 PM

^^^^^^

So you really are serious about astrology?


^^^^^^

So you really are serious about some guy walking on water and who rose from the dead?

So you really are serious about original sin entering this world because some women who was born from a rib ate a magical apple because of a talking snake?

Verzen
 hungry_joe
Joined: 6/24/2006
Msg: 115
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History
Jesus was a Socialist
Posted: 11/6/2009 3:07:17 PM
Xzanthius I might take up on your offer, if nothing more then my own entertainment. However, I do believe that Jesus walked on water and so on. Sure If you think that he is God why not? The bible wasn't solely work of mouth. There were many different texts at the time, that is why they need to decide which books should be included into the Bible. Jesus returned to the Galilee after Herod Agripia died, well in Mathews texts 2 19-23. This is where we get the Feast of the Holy innocents.

As far as Jesus's view on Prostitution, this is where we get the famous line he without sin cast the first stone. However, he could've been asking among you who is the Chief Priest to make the interpertation of the law, that she should be put to death? The Chief Priest was supposed to be sinless, to enter the Holy of Holies. I prefer the popular interpertation but just a thought. Jesus often said the sex should be within the confines of a marriage, and even said that divorce is wrong (unless fraudulent).

As for orginal sin well you have to look at Genesis 2 to find that. I like Genesis 1, where God created man and woman, and said be fruitful and multiply.

One of the advantages of living in the south (Bible Belt) you learn where in the bible to find stuff. I'm not Evangelical in anyway. As far as I'm concerned if you want to be a wicken and worship nature so be it. Or any other religion for that matter.

But to bring it back to topic, if you had to discribe a political bent to Jesus and his message it would be Theocratic.
 monalee1
Joined: 10/22/2007
Msg: 116
Jesus was a Socialist
Posted: 11/6/2009 4:13:20 PM
"And that, for all intents and purposes, is when you "have to be careful when you play with scripture." Read back over the posts .... who is interpreting what HE meant? "

a believer stands behind that title.. they believe God when He Says "ask and I Will Answer... we believe ALL of Gods Promises... Gods Spirit Teaches man in All Truth, man can not interpret without God or he thinks himself God... who does that sound like?... blessings
 monalee1
Joined: 10/22/2007
Msg: 117
Jesus was a Socialist
Posted: 11/6/2009 4:27:25 PM
"Don't get me wrong, I'm a Christian and believe in Christian beliefs, but geez, that doesn't give me the right, in this country, to impose my view on others.
What is it with you bible thumpers? Do you get frequent flier miles or a gift certificate to Chuckie Cheese for each instance of imposing you belief on others?
my favorite beer is Pearl Bear, "

... as a Christian I study Gods Word and The Life of Christ and I state what Gods Spirit Teaches me to.. you call yourself a Christian, mock people who study the bible while imposing on us what your fav beer is... see any differences, see any similarities??... you judge me but I leave you to Gods Judgement... blessings
 monalee1
Joined: 10/22/2007
Msg: 118
Jesus was a Socialist
Posted: 11/6/2009 4:33:08 PM
"wonder if there is something to birthcharts. I have analyzed mine, pretty freaky! I suggest that you do the same. "


... ty but no, I am going with what God says.. "do not even touch it"... God does not keep any good thing from us so that settles it, astrology is not from God, it is from another source not out for our greater good.... blessings
 hungry_joe
Joined: 6/24/2006
Msg: 119
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History
Jesus was a Socialist
Posted: 11/6/2009 5:34:50 PM
Krebby, when talking about Religion you have to solve it like a Geometry problem, that is that you have to have a few assumptions to solve.

Now here's Jesus. He is the Son of God.
He is both 100% God, and 100% Man.
Jesus was crucified and rose from the dead for the forgiveness, of sins.

So for you question because Jesus is God, he didn't find an interesting way to multiply food. He's God first postulate: Therefore, created the entire universe down to the subatomic particle.

Postulate Two Jesus is 100% God 100% Man: Therefore as a Man (human) he is nuanced in personality like we all are. Well those of us that think, and are confortable being ourselfs. I'm not 100% Conservative, or 100% Liberal, depending on the topic you could call me either. When you see the inconsistancies, that is just a reflection of Jesus humanity, his emptying himself to experience our life. Jesus, when you look at him in a whole you will see that it is very consistant. You just can't just look at chapter and verse out of the context of the whole.

Jesus died, and rose from the Dead, supports the other two postulates.


 hungry_joe
Joined: 6/24/2006
Msg: 120
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History
Jesus was a Socialist
Posted: 11/6/2009 7:17:09 PM
Yeah the 100% and 100% is an article of faith, and doctrine. There are a few Christian outliers, but that is besides the point. I was answering your question, as to the juxapostion of Jesus teachings and his precieved personality.

As to Socialism, I'm actually answered that it is contrary to Christian belief. However, I also answered in my "formula" that Jesus was also completely human, therefore, capable of nuance like all of us are. I think where we get confused, is who is doing the giving. Christianity believes in charity, therefore the individual giving of him or herself for the betterment of the community, whereas, socialism, is the State, (Rome in Jesus's time) gives to the members of the community for there betterment. So it is a function of responsiablity. Christian Charity you do good because you wish to become more Christ-like. Socialism you give because you want equality.
 hungry_joe
Joined: 6/24/2006
Msg: 121
view profile
History
Jesus was a Socialist
Posted: 11/6/2009 7:53:53 PM
It was an oversimplification, best I could think of. I also said it was state controled.
 hungry_joe
Joined: 6/24/2006
Msg: 122
view profile
History
Jesus was a Socialist
Posted: 11/7/2009 7:36:02 AM
I have more expertise in Turbine tech. so that is why I want to go with wind on a micro-scale.
I use the forums as a method, of physical therapy since the IED explosion and subsequent TBI.
I don't take anything personal here, unless, I'm addressed personally in a negative way. Like I said in the US we're all able to make or own choice on religion. What may be good for one might not be good for all. I've studied the religions of the world, and see some good and ill in all. This topic is speaking about Jesus, that is why we're talking about Christian doctrine.
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