Notice: Forums will be shutdown by June 2019

To focus on better serving our members, we've decided to shut down the POF forums.

While regular posting is now disabled, you can continue to view all threads until the end of June 2019. Event Hosts can still create and promote events while we work on a new and improved event creation service for you.

Thank you!

Plentyoffish dating forums are a place to meet singles and get dating advice or share dating experiences etc. Hopefully you will all have fun meeting singles and try out this online dating thing... Remember that we are the largest free online dating service, so you will never have to pay a dime to meet your soulmate.
     
Show ALL Forums  > Politics  > North Korea fueling rocket for impending launch ... So what's the big      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 36
view profile
History
North Korea fueling rocket for impending launch ... So what's the big deal?Page 3 of 4    (1, 2, 3, 4)
Well it appears as if they (North Korea) did in fact launch the missile. From what I also heard ... it failed to accomplish their goal.

Susan Rice (US Ambassador to the UN) is saying that the US is going to pursue action against them through the UN Security council ... ie let the UN handle this ... make it a group thing. No stupid "gun-slinging" rhetoric. WHEW!!!! At least we are no longer at the mercy of that "Bring It On" idiot. I am so relieved that we have such a level-headed man at the helm.

I note that one of the commentators on "This Week with George Stephanopoulos" commented that we (the US) can't dominate the world and it's not our job alone to do that. And that is exactly what I have been saying here.
 kabiosile
Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 37
view profile
History
North Korea fueling rocket for impending launch ... So what's the big deal?
Posted: 4/5/2009 10:26:56 PM
Lar I dont think cotter said no one should aid the civilians in N Korea. Many of the issues in North Korea have long been exacerbated by the international communities political motives. The war going on till this day which is only stopped by cease fire and the DMZ also do not help the situation at all. Isolating countries and putting sanctions only serves to starve their women and children.

When a country like this feels threatened and rightfully so for, if we go back into the history of the matter these people have been under attack long before the USA got involved. The Japanese were BRUTAL to these people before this stuff broke out.

What people fail to understand is that communism is a reactionary movement to injustice towards the lower class working poor. The movement often gets hijacked by someone with dictator aspirations or they feel it is the only way they can hold power because other non-communist nations are VERY hostile to them.

I am most certainly am not trying to make excuses for the behavior of the N Korean government but, I do believe it is equally not helpful to try to politicize it in the other direction either. One needs to look at the history of WHY this stuff happened and continues. The actions of the international community have more often than not been to throw gas on the fire. With Bush aid to the civilians of the N Korea plummeted in a time they need help more than ever.

My issue with what you are saying is that you blame one man for the problems in a region many that stem from issues, that were going on even before that one man was born.

I try not to politicize suffering. I think it leads to more suffering. I agree that the people of N Korea need help. The international community should get together with people who want to take the politics out of the issue and truly help the civilians. I also think nations need to drop the threatening posture with the North.

N Korea's leader has even privately accepted US troops presence on Korea. He has even signed an agreement that can lead to reunification. Those were both steps into the right direction. One that can have a peaceful solution to the problems. Bush and what he did in Iraq destabilized a whole lot more than the middle east. It in fact destabilized the worlds balance. Bush was clearly sending out the message that the US was taking the posture again of a country that was hell bent on nation building and invasion of sovereign nations.

This of course set into motion reactions to such a posture.

Every action has a reaction...

IF you are truly concerned about the humanitarian issue in the North then lets drop the politics and be for real about helping people. That will not happen by trying to get hostile with the North Korean government. We have to think in a manner that will take into account that these people whom run the power structure have been at war for a VERY long time being attacked, invaded and in the case of the nations history with Japan they were occupied and treated with extreme brutality. These events are going to have effects on the way the powers that be react both to those outside their borders and within where many countries will try to establish clandestine movements to overthrow the government from within.

With all of this taken into account, it is hard to place the blame solely on the leadership of N Korea. Again I make no excuses for their behavior here. I stand firmly opposed to people being mistreated anywhere for I see common mans interest over any form of government but, I also am able to look outside of the politics and try to see more of the whole picture and I can say here is that, the handling of the issues by nations outside of the north are compounding the already existing problems because the only thing really being considered when most are trying to implement policies, is how to harm the power structure in the north.

When the focus gets taken out of military/war mentality I believe we may be able to facilitate changes that positively effect the plight of the civilian in the north.

Dictatorship is not native to communism. It is actually counterproductive to communism which should be a movement of the people by the people. Dictators come to power as a reactionary movement to other nations hostility to the concept of communism, in some cases. In others they have a charismatic ability to garner support and hide their true intent till it is too late..

In the case of communism in smaller nations, it is more often the history of capitalist nations being hostile to the idea that any nation become leftist, in support of the labor movement or in any way threaten the hegemony of the top down structure implemented by foreign corporate interests that compound an already volatile situation..

These western nations will openly support BRUTAL right wing dictators, and over throws of stable governments which leave a power vacuum to attempt to crush the leftist/labor movement the common people try to make to fight the injustices they have been subject to by puppets of foreign entities or in some cases outright by foreign companies/corporations.

This brutality has often served to in many cases swell the ranks of the leftist movement and push it over the top. ie Cuba, Vietnam, Korea, Cambodia etc etc. All perfect examples of brutal right wing dictator nut jobs and over throws supported by the US and other western nations that backfired BIG TIME.

There are many many many more of course but, I would not like to get too side tracked.. The point here is to show that the actions of the west have only served to aid in spreading communism which is supposed to be a movement for the common man by the common man, these actions often cause a reaction within and it serves to change into a movement that takes on a more dictatorship quality. I believe it is in many cases a direct reaction to the foreign policies and history of the region as much as other typical ways dictators come to power.

I agree with you that the people of N Korea are suffering. Nothing saddens me more. I believe we need to develop policy as nation that will not do more harm to situation nor cause more war in the region for this only serves to exacerbate the suffering. We need to think of a way to help move the region for a war like posture and to start thinking in more sane productive meaningful ways. It was done before to a degree and positive steps were being taken.

Nation building, coups or support of right wing dictators, imperialism, and exploitation of workers are the fertile ground for leftist revolutions. In every single case those were present to a great degree and were the cause for the reactionary movement of the styles of communism with dictatorship leanings, we have seen spring up.

Communism in and of it self if done by the people and ran by the people not attacked is not such a bad thing. It is merely a different way to spread the wealth. When attacked as some sort of bogey man or hijacked by someone with lust of power, it often turns into a dictatorship and no matter if it is right or left wing dictatorships do not often turn out well for the inhabitants. We can not just lump all the blame on one person though no matter how easy it may seem. History is seldom neat and clean like that. It takes a long stream of events which all have their influences in the grander scheme of things.

It will take the people involved to put aside some rather profound differences, and be in the spirit of fixing things instead of trying to topple each other to get things going back in a direction that will be beneficial to the innocent civilians whom are ALWAYS the ones whom suffer from the actions of the callous governments of the world whom often merely seem to see them as their playthings.

My sympathy goes to the innocent civilians of all nations not to ANY government.
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 38
North Korea fueling rocket for impending launch ... So what's the big deal?
Posted: 4/5/2009 11:14:58 PM
Oh dear Kabiosole. My comrade! My confrere! My colleague as we stand against the silliness of the righties who post here.

It's with truly heavy heart that I have to call you a wooly headed liberal.

Communism at it's heart is dictatorial. It has to be - any time you have a system that will provide perfect happiness if the People can just be forced to accept it, you've got a tyrrany. Heck, that's the scary part of the radical right in America.

And Kim Jung Il isn't a reaction to the brutality of western imperialism. He's a maniacal, narcisstic monster. Sanctions are the stick - aid is the carrot. You can't deal with North Korea's leadership except by appealing to narrow self interest. Even he knows that if he starves his people there will be fewer worshippers at his altars - so you give if he plays nice, and withhold if he, say, develops nuclear weapons and delivery systems.

The problem is that, with no hope of getting aid or sanctions lifted during the last 8 years, building bombs and missiles actually is the only viable strategy to get hard currency so Kim can buy Scotch and Cognac.
 kabiosile
Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 39
view profile
History
North Korea fueling rocket for impending launch ... So what's the big deal?
Posted: 4/5/2009 11:32:14 PM


Communism at it's heart is dictatorial. It has to be - any time you have a system that will provide perfect happiness if the People can just be forced to accept it, you've got a tyrrany. Heck, that's the scary part of the radical right in America.


Will have to completely disagree here. There can be communism without dictator just like there can be capitalism with a dictator. Dictator is not needed nor is it innate to either economic system. Have you ever lived or visited a commune? Most are democratically ran by form of coucil. They are the base of what real communism is. A group of people working together voluntarily for the ideal of sharing the wealth with the whole. The issue of dictator comes separate of the economic system. It comes when a person or party wishes to gain absolute power and force their system. It happens in every form of economic system.





And Kim Jung Il isn't a reaction to the brutality of western imperialism.


Did not say he was. I said the spread of dictatorial versions of communism is also affected and in some ways reactionary to actions of imperial powers. Also not always exclusively from western nations. There have been plenty of imperial powers in the east as well.

Right wing and left wing are both reactionary movements to each other.
 kabiosile
Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 40
view profile
History
North Korea fueling rocket for impending launch ... So what's the big deal?
Posted: 4/6/2009 12:13:11 AM


The problem is that, with no hope of getting aid or sanctions lifted during the last 8 years, building bombs and missiles actually is the only viable strategy to get hard currency so Kim can buy Scotch and Cognac.


While I do not disagree with you here, I also think there is a certain amount of attention seeking here as well with some of this. He is using this nuclear program more so in my view of the situation as a bargaining chip though I would not put passed him to try to make cash off them too.. When in a disparate situation people whom seek to hold onto power do so at all costs. It is a form of insanity many leaders of nations have had throughout history. The good thing is it has been studied quite a bit and it is rather predictable and these disturbed people are usually the ones whom do themselves in. Their greed and obsession often become so powerful they consume even them.

These are some of the things I am trying to get across. People are so quick to jump on one political side or the other as if they are rooting for their favorite team, school or club.

Only thing is this is no game. I have heard people in these forums talk about how they support criminal behavior and certain countries having nukes simply because they are "our allies."

This mentality is disturbing to me to say the least

There is more going on here than left and right. Both the extreme left and right have done the most horrific things to this world. I think it best to stop the extreme behavior. People whom wish to have a communist situation should just do so within the system they currently live in. Voluntarily group up with other people and work together. That is the real deal. No system should be forced by the government. The people should choose how they want to operate economically without interference of any government.
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 41
North Korea fueling rocket for impending launch ... So what's the big deal?
Posted: 4/6/2009 7:15:02 AM
There's a total difference between a commune and communism. Hutterites and Shakers organized themselves according to Christ's teachings, so they live communistic.

That's a voluntary thing. But even Christians who think the first and last books of the Bible must be read absolutely literally wouldn't even consider taking Christ's words literally in their own lives. That's what makes Christ so radical even today.

So you can't organize a state along communist lines without force. The people will not voluntarily accept it. Communism isn't part of a continuum of socialism - it's a complete break from it.
 kabiosile
Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 42
view profile
History
North Korea fueling rocket for impending launch ... So what's the big deal?
Posted: 4/6/2009 10:26:55 AM
Commune is pure communism. The real deal... Just because the name got drug through the mud with a few dictators does not mean the idea is flawed. Same goes for capitalism. Ideas are just that. It is not the ideas fault for how people misuse and abuse them.

What we saw evolve in Russia started as a communist revolution that then later down the road got hijacked and turned into totalitarianism hiding behind the faced of communism. Only problem is totalitarianism is a method of governance and communism is a system of economics... They are not related at all. One can have a totalitarian form of Capitalism it has happened before...

I understand a lot of people like to point to that and say that is what communism always is but, just like people now point to our system and claim it is what capitalism always turns into. You are being quite black or white here. The fact is Communism and Capitalism in their ideal state can both be wonderful systems.

The issue is how to keep it in a beneficial state and not allow people to run over it and turn them into menaces. Both in their extremes run by the same powers they were both invented to put in check take them over they become just another exploitative and oppressive system to maintain control and power.

The issue is not the economic system but the form of governance that goes along side with them and it's influences and whom they serve.




So you can't organize a state along communist lines without force. The people will not voluntarily accept it.


Here is where I agree with you but, I must also add that the same holds true for any economic system. Economics in my view should not be forced by government. The common man should CHOOSE what culture they prefer. If some people wish to pool wealth and work together it should be allowed if others can find ways to work in capitalism let them do it.

It's coming one day....
 Twill348
Joined: 12/20/2008
Msg: 43
view profile
History
North Korea fueling rocket for impending launch ... So what's the big deal?
Posted: 4/6/2009 4:38:43 PM
"By the way in today's modern world Isolationism doesn't work. "

That's true, so it's a good thing I'm not proposing that.


The Aegis Ballistic Missile Defense System sounds good, I'll beleive it when I see it. Right now, it's 20 years in the future, so it will come in handy when Mars attacks. In addition, carriers are expensive, missles are cheap. Same reason we don't have battleships anymore, no battleship can survive a fighter plane attack.

""to prepare and conduct prompt and sustained combat operations in support of the national interest". As part of that establishment, the U.S. Navy's functions comprise sea control, power projection and nuclear deterrence, in addition to "sealift" duties So the mission of the Navy is not to defend the United states?Um yeah okay!"

No, the mission IS to defend the US, they are just not doing it! Our military leadership is lost in a dreamworld of force projection, I want a navy that PROTECTS OUR CITIES. Do that first, then go gallavanting around the globe. Soviet Generals would have died if a Soviet city was attacked, which American generals have paid the price?

I repeat...there has been nothing done to protect any American city from another 911 type of attack, never mind stuff they have thought of since then. In addition, our homelend national defense force, has been sent halfway around the globe. Yeah, that's real smart! All because we are fighting a war without the support of the people! A draft was needed, but our leaders knew they could not get away with that. Our sacrifice of the NG , for political reasons, will come back to bite us.

But this will come to an end, when a carrier or two gets sucker punched.
 Twill348
Joined: 12/20/2008
Msg: 44
view profile
History
North Korea fueling rocket for impending launch ... So what's the big deal?
Posted: 4/7/2009 3:38:40 PM
"On June 22, 2007, the USS Decatur, using the operationally-certified Aegis Ballistic Missile Defense Weapon System (BMD 3.6) and the Standard Missile - 3 (SM-3) Block IA missile, successfully performed a "Hit To Kill" intercept of a separating, medium range, ballistic missile. The target missile was launched from the Pacific Missile Range Facility on Kauai, HI. The Aegis-class cruiser USS Port Royal, Spain's Álvaro de Bazán class frigate MÉNDEZ NÚÑEZ (F-104), and MDA's Terminal High Altitude Area Defense (THAAD) mobile ground-based radar also participated in the flight test. FTM-12 (Codename: Stellar Athena) was the first to use an Arleigh Burke-class destroyer as the firing ship. [10]"

There's tests, then there's real life. Most tests are very specific, test one aspect of the system only. A real test? Have the North Koreans keep shooting, that's real target practice!
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 45
view profile
History
North Korea fueling rocket for impending launch ... So what's the big deal?
Posted: 4/10/2009 6:30:25 AM

Have the North Koreans keep shooting, that's real target practice!
NO!!!!

It's not the job of the US to boss the rest of the world around and it's not their job to go around shooting down any kind of missile from any other country. Let the Security Council do their job.

I really do wish the "shoot 'em up bang bang" attitude could just go back to Crawford along with the idiot who started it.
 kabiosile
Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 46
view profile
History
North Korea fueling rocket for impending launch ... So what's the big deal?
Posted: 4/10/2009 8:34:10 PM


You don't seriously believe the U.N. will do anything about anything do you?
The rocket they're testing could have the ability to reach California and blow up half


You honestly believe even the ruler of N Korea is that stupid? One of our missiles would level most of the region...

What is your point? We have much bigger and missiles that can destroy any part of our nation pointed at us right now as we type... China, Russia, Pakistan.... I dont think a missile or two from N Korea is going to be any more of a big deal other than it will set them in a position to no longer be bullied and have sanctions on them.

 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 47
North Korea fueling rocket for impending launch ... So what's the big deal?
Posted: 4/10/2009 8:57:52 PM
Holy Smokes. The whole purpose of non-proliferation is to reduce the threat of nuclear war.

You seem to be advocating North Korea threatening nuclear attack to get sanctions lifted. I can't see any other way of interpreting what you've posted.

It doesn't matter how many weapons any other country has. One country who has them and is willing to use them is extraordinarily dangerous. And you certainly seem to be giving them your approval to use them. You can't make a threat unless you're prepared to follow through. The result would be horrific - I have no idea if North Korea would be able to follow through but the threat would almost certainly result in a nuclear attack on North Korea.

And yeah, the concensus from those who know is that Kim Jung-Il is that deluded that he might use the weapons if he had them. This isn't just hawks or right wingers talking - it's everybody who knows the nation.
 kabiosile
Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 48
view profile
History
North Korea fueling rocket for impending launch ... So what's the big deal?
Posted: 4/10/2009 10:11:04 PM


You seem to be advocating North Korea threatening nuclear attack to get sanctions lifted.

I am not advocating any of it.
In fact I think the whole thing is proof of the folly of war.

Nope. I am saying that their nuclear program is supposedly as we are told a threat to eventual nuclear attack. I am saying that if they got a nuke, they become part of "the club."
I am also, playing devils advocate if you will.


I did not make the rules here. It is what it is.

This whole competition for wealth and recognition, and the competition for power; it is all foolishness, in my view.
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 49
view profile
History
North Korea fueling rocket for impending launch ... So what's the big deal?
Posted: 4/12/2009 7:21:21 AM
Every country has the right to defend itself. We (USA) do not have the right to tell any sovereign nation what to do. After what we just sent home, we certainly do not have the right to judge the stability of leaders of other countries. If anything we should either just shut our mouths or hang our head in shame.

If the US is not going to poo poo Israel having "illegal" nuclear weapons ... just turning their head and at the same time giving them all kinds of money to build up their military ... then they should not poo poo Iran or North Korea having the same.
 Ready4SomethingFun
Joined: 3/17/2008
Msg: 50
view profile
History
North Korea fueling rocket for impending launch ... So what's the big deal?
Posted: 4/12/2009 10:04:04 AM

After what we just sent home, we certainly do not have the right to judge the stability of leaders of other countries.


While "what we just sent home" was in office we didn't have to worry about this crap.

It's only now, since "what we just put in" came into office international affairs seem to be going haywire. Why? Because other countries know "what we just put in" is an blame America apologist who will do little or nothing to stop anything other countries want to do. So they are ready to have a field day.

America grows more unsafe each day "what we just put in" is in.
 Ready4SomethingFun
Joined: 3/17/2008
Msg: 51
view profile
History
North Korea fueling rocket for impending launch ... So what's the big deal?
Posted: 4/12/2009 2:42:13 PM

This is where the problem lies.


In your eyes. My problem is too many people see my having a problem with it as the problem.


Has someone or some organisation planted some propaganda of “fear” into you?


How about Al Qaeda? Need more? Google it.


The boogie man isn’t prowling, isn’t pacing back and forth biding his time, waiting for a favourable opportunity to attack the USA. No one is going to attack the USA unless they are responding in their own “self defence”.


And when were you born? Were you around Sept of 2001? We did not provoke the attack that happened on 9/11 by any other means than being what a terrorist group considered infidels (well most sane people consider this a fact--we'll exclude those like the Rev. Wright and his ilk). You have no clue weather or not someone is biding their time waiting to attack this country, no more than I do. My stand is I oppose appeasing and enabling, allowing things to happen that may backfire on us in the future.


If you added up the combined annual defence expenditures of the world’s next twenty most powerful nations after the USA, you still could not match what the USA expends annually on its colossal military machine.


Good, at least our government does something right. It sure can't run schools, social security or much of anything else. Let us be first in something for christ sakes. But I'm sure Obama will fix that problem up quickly, like Clinton did. Still, what does that have to do with keeping nukes out the hands of nutjobs like Il? It doesn't mean we don't have to retaliate if he does decide to lob a missle in our general direction. It doesn't mean we don't have casualties that could have been avoided if he we not allowed to get one in the first place. Why is it so hard for some to admit the world is a safer place if certain countries are not allowed to have nukes? Fairness is not always the common sense solution. If little Johnny runs around stabbing kids every time the teacher brings out the pointy scissors isn't it wiser to keep Johnny from using them even though it may not be fair?


Has the USA provoked through its actions anywhere a “self defence” scenario from another people/nation? Has it?


What does it have to do with keeping nutcases away from nukes? Nutcases don't need provacation. What the heck is wrong with being better safe than sorry? Only one side seems to think we have provoked anyone, and it seems to them it is because we are the big bad bully. Well, when/if the s**t hits the fan I want to be on the big bad bullies side--not the apppeasing apologist wimp side.

And I refuse to apologise for the fact I feel that way. No matter how much all the libs always say things need to be fair and everything needs to be equal--I like to win sometimes. It feels damn good. Last year at this time I had no doubt we would be the winners if anything bad happened, now I have way too many doubts. And if you have any doubts about it, go back and look up what Obama's own VP has to say about it. He knows it, and it's already beginning. Ever wonder why the Al Qeada endorsed McCain? Because someone strong on war is the last thing they wanted running our country that's why. Just think of it this way--if you are rouge nation (or terrorist org.) looking to attack the U.S. when would you do it? When you know the U.S. is going to pound sand up your ass, or when an appeasing wuss is going to want to sit down and talk about it, then if no resolution is made, run to the U.N. for a six month procedure that will go nowhere?


One of your own leaders once said “There is nothing to fear, except fear itself” and that’s still damn good advice.


And Fran Tarkenton said "Fear is good, but panic is bad." There is nothing wrong with a little, as long as it doesn't consume your life. And unfortunetly there are things in this world that are bad, and we didn't make them all that way, contrary to some's belief.
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 52
North Korea fueling rocket for impending launch ... So what's the big deal?
Posted: 4/12/2009 3:15:33 PM
Holy cow, hard to know where to start.


And when were you born? Were you around Sept of 2001? We did not provoke the attack that happened on 9/11 by any other means than being what a terrorist group considered infidels (well most sane people consider this a fact--we'll exclude those like the Rev. Wright and his ilk). You have no clue weather or not someone is biding their time waiting to attack this country, no more than I do. My stand is I oppose appeasing and enabling, allowing things to happen that may backfire on us in the future.


If the only thing you took from the attacks on the WTC and the Pentagon is that you were targeted because Americans are "infidels", then you're the problem. The first step in any conflict is understanding your enemy. I'm not going to even try to start, but there's a whole lot of information out there.


Only one side seems to think we have provoked anyone,


Say what? If by one side you mean those on this side of the sanity fence, then I guess you're right. But there isn't a rational human being on the planet who doesn't think American foreign policy hasn't created enemies. I'll give you two examples from the the man worshipped by the GOP - Ronald Reagan:

He sponsored real terrorism in Central America. Trained them, funded them (by selling weapons to Iran) and massacred at least tens of thousands in Nicaragua.

Two American servicemen were killed in a nightclub explosion in Germany. The terrorists were sponsored by Syria. The White House learned that immediately. But rather than retaliated against Syria, who they were negotiating with regarding Lebanon, Reagan bombed Tripoli. Killed Ghadafi's infant son among others. That's why a plane was attacked carrying US soldiers over Scotland. That attack was certainly provoked.

And as far as the rest of your delusional system, ("Last year at this time I had no doubt we would be the winners if anything bad happened, now I have way too many doubts.") they do have medication for that now.
 Ready4SomethingFun
Joined: 3/17/2008
Msg: 53
view profile
History
North Korea fueling rocket for impending launch ... So what's the big deal?
Posted: 4/12/2009 8:49:57 PM
Well I will say this much. I was impressed on how Obama handled the pirate hostage situation. Most of it anyway.

But as far as understanding my enemy-I don't want to understand them. I want to eliminate them. If you think we provoked 9-11 fine, think it, that's what I was refering to. That I still consider an unprovoked attack.



And as far as the rest of your delusional system, ("Last year at this time I had no doubt we would be the winners if anything bad happened, now I have way too many doubts.") they do have medication for that now.


They have a pill to make me think like a liberal now? No thanks, I'll pass--in my opinion the delusional thinking is thinking America can sit down and make nicey-nice with people who hate our guts and would rather see our country eliminated. No amount of kiss-assing is going to change the way they feel. And Canadians just love to criticize those of us who feel this way, but I bet I know who gets the first call for help if a country ever sees it worthwhile to attack you.
 Ready4SomethingFun
Joined: 3/17/2008
Msg: 54
view profile
History
North Korea fueling rocket for impending launch ... So what's the big deal?
Posted: 4/13/2009 9:05:23 AM

What do you deem to be of greater importance to your society


I guess what I deem to be of the greatest importance is that we actually have a society. Any chance for the prosperity of my children depend on it. The only way our society (and my definition of society I'm getting from your post is our country) is going to advance is to get rid of it's enemies. If sitting down and talking to them would actually work I'd have no problem with it. History has shown otherwise.

As far as the social infrastructure failing, it's because the government enables troublemakers--I know people who have 5 and 6 DUI's--what does it take--mowing down a schoolbus full of kids to get them to put them away? When the government gives schools money, they fall all over themselves to build new schools, because they don't teach responsibility and the troublemakers destroy the old ones, they'd rather spend millions building new ones instead of thousands referbishing what they have, or spending money rewarding the good teachers while telling unions to go screw themselves and firing the bad ones. I've read posts in these forums and seen ads put up on this very site by "teachers" who should be ashamed of their own spelling and grammatical errors. The school I went to was 88 years old, and had nothing to do with the quality of education I got--it had to do with the teachers.

Half of this society blames the other half for everything they hate about this society, they think those that work hard for what they have owe them something for nothing. They are taught this is okay--by their parents and by a large faction of "society". Especially the ones in office right now--blame America for everything wrong, take from the sucessful and give to those who screwed around, reward those who lived beyond their means and those who skrimped and save and were responsible will help pay for your stupidity.

Our government can't run any of it's social programs right but the answer is to take away from the one program we do run right? Throwing more money at a problem rarely solves a problem-our country's history has shown that too. Not only that, but the supposed intelligentsia of the nation thinks after the failure of our schools and our social programs (welfare, social security, etc.) that we should let them take over running the healthcare system?!?!?!? Gimme a break!!

You are right, it is sad that we our greatest strenght is our military and not some other endeavor of our society. But it is what it is, and when the chips are down, most of the world looks to us. So all in all is that such a bad thing? And is it such a bad thing that we keep other countries from getting mowed down by oppessive forces? I guess some think so. But I choose to look at it as a good thing. Sometimes we goof, and hindsight is always 20/20 on that fact.

But still, I think a prime objective (and a way to get this post back on topic) is to keep N. Korea and Kim Bong Nutcase from getting his grubby mitts on a nuke. And we are just the colossal war machine to do it.
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 55
view profile
History
North Korea fueling rocket for impending launch ... So what's the big deal?
Posted: 4/13/2009 4:17:35 PM

But still, I think a prime objective (and a way to get this post back on topic) is to keep N. Korea and Kim Bong Nutcase from getting his grubby mitts on a nuke.
Again, we are the last on the face of this earth to talk about having a "nutcase" as the head of government. We were the laughing stock of the world with that "High Functioning Moron" for the past 8 years, not to mention that for decades we have been supporting a country that is slowly but surely committing genocide on it's neighboring country.

I don't consider that for using good judgment at all. Excuse me, but we are in no position to go around judging other countries' leaders.

And we are just the colossal war machine to do it.
No we are not ... we are in no way, shape, or form any kind of "colossal war machine".

The last president was a big-mouthed dumba$$ "shoot 'em up bang bang" moron that wanted a lot of people to believe we were big & tough, but in the end it's clear that we are not at all.

We are the laughing stock of the world for invading a sovereign nation for WMD's that basically only existed in the warped imagination of the head moron. The moron then declared "victory" and promptly got his a$$ whooped!!!!

We are in no way any kind of "colossal war machine" ... it's all just a big bag of wind. We're getting our a$$ kicked all over the world. We have no more to give ... our ranks are spread here and there and getting nothing done. We can't seem to get anyone to sign up any more.

Who would want to sign up knowing that if you should get injured, you'd just get shoved onto Welfare (if you're lucky) and your family would basically end up living on the streets. The whole thing is the joke of the world.

OT ...
We have no right to tell other countries if and how they should be allowed to develop weapons to defend themselves.
 Ready4SomethingFun
Joined: 3/17/2008
Msg: 56
view profile
History
North Korea fueling rocket for impending launch ... So what's the big deal?
Posted: 4/13/2009 8:12:55 PM

We can't seem to get anyone to sign up any more.


Really? My son just graduated from boot camp in Fort Jackson South Carolina, one of several training spots in the U.S. Thousands enlisted before Obama took office.

But now, you may be right about nobody signing up because they know the new "high functioning puppet" in office has cutting the military on his mind (just like the last democrat "high functioning adulterer" puppet master Slick Willy did)--after he "nabs Bin Laden" of course. We all know why Obama has to get him too. Slick was too busy getting hummers from aides and white house groupies to catch him when he had the chance back before this whole 9/11 mess happened.

And the fact that our military is going to get cut to the bare wires again is another good reason for N. Korea not to have a weapon of mass destruction.
 Ready4SomethingFun
Joined: 3/17/2008
Msg: 57
view profile
History
North Korea fueling rocket for impending launch ... So what's the big deal?
Posted: 4/14/2009 7:14:34 AM
Yes, I do love this country, I am willing to die for my country, if it's for the right reason. I don't see many reasons at this point and time. All the blame America pundits are happy as larks, I am now the one who is ashamed.

If the military budget is projected to be $534 billion in 2010, it's only because the "high functioning puppet" is as lousy at budgeting as he is everything else (which one look at the overall budget--the biggest in the history of our country--proves without a doubt). As far as stop-loss goes, when times are extrememly prosperous, the military doesn't get as many sign-ups. That should tell you something right there. It had nothing to do with "being mean to people" it had everything to do with keeping our military up to snuff to fight those "evil wars against imagined enemies". But don't worry it will be stopped two ways--no one wants to join the military under Obama, and Obama WILL cut the military--in numbers if not in spending.




Do you have selective memory or amnesia?


Not sure I understand your question, since your posts are usually so obtuse I seldom read them. But I will try---it's funny how some people forgive actual terrorists themselves (let's say Bill Ayers for example) but if the other side has friends that happen to be related to one, they are all for lumping them into the same regime. Yes, it made me uneasy that the Bush's and the Bin Ladens conducted business. But they were not responsible for the bombings, no one has proven they were, unlike some who openly admitted guilt.


No Show George went on vacation............


I wish Obama would take more vacations. The stock seems to go up everytime he leaves for awhile.
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 58
view profile
History
North Korea fueling rocket for impending launch ... So what's the big deal?
Posted: 4/14/2009 2:29:51 PM

...one look at the overall budget--the biggest in the history of our country--
The budgets from the last administration did not have the "war budget" in them, but this budget does. So how about going back and take the previous budgets and ADD the cost of the wars into it (as is included in the current budget) and I'm betting the previous budgets (submitted by the previous administration) would be even higher or just as high.

So in reality ... this budget is the WHOLE budget whereas the budgets that were submitted by the past administration was really just a partial budget ... certainly not the complete budget by any means.

Anyways ... getting back on topic ...
... fight those "evil wars against imagined enemies"
If we could just get rid of supporting Israel, we wouldn't be in any more trouble with the Middle East. Ha ... now that I think about it ... if we stopped supporting Israel, we wouldn't have any more people who want to punish us for that ... by flying jets into buildings. Seems to me to be again a matter of minding our own business. Among other things, keeping our nose out of the Middle East.

People just won't learn from history. Supporting Israel over the years has cost us dearly. We lost Bobby Kennedy over it, and now years later ... all those lives with the happenings of 911 as well.

... no one wants to join the military under Obama ...
No ... actually no one wants to join the military under ANY circumstances. Enrollment was down during the "Shrub" administration as well. They don't want to accidentally become disabled or injured because they now know the VA won't take care of them. The VA will just pronounce them "no longer able to serve, but employable" ... and send them on their way.

The new VA is now our current Welfare system.

OT ...
No matter what ... we still do not have the right to tell other sovereign nations how they can defend themselves ... most especially when we support the "bullies" of the Middle East the Israelis ... the basic threat to peace in the Middle East.
 Ready4SomethingFun
Joined: 3/17/2008
Msg: 59
view profile
History
North Korea fueling rocket for impending launch ... So what's the big deal?
Posted: 4/14/2009 8:32:17 PM
No ... actually no one wants to join the military under ANY circumstances. Enrollment was down during the "Shrub" administration as well. They don't want to accidentally become disabled or injured because they now know the VA won't take care of them. The VA will just pronounce them "no longer able to serve, but employable" ... and send them on their way.


One thing I don't understand is all of these people who say the VA won't take care of them. It's true being ex-military doesn't mean your road is paved for life, but I have two friends, one who is over 60 that did a short peace time stint in the early 60's and one who did a peacetime stint in the mid 80's. Both of them have recently needed operations, the first a hernia operation (and false teeth to boot) and the other an appendix operation, and the VA took care of both of them for all their needs. My older friend even got 1200 dollars to help with bills. I don't know if it was through the VA but the VA helped him get it.

Now I'm not calling anyone a liar or anything, but are my two friends somehow special? Did they somehow become exceptions to some rule somewhere?
Or did they both somehow find the deep dark secret or loophole that others can't seem to find?

And considering Jack posted above that the military was 510 billion under Bush and is projected to be 534 billion in 2010 (while Obama will surely cut the military) I doubt it would have been higher under Bush. Because the rest of the budget was no where near what Obama has up his sleeve.
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 60
view profile
History
North Korea fueling rocket for impending launch ... So what's the big deal?
Posted: 4/27/2009 7:38:17 PM

... but I have two friends, one who is over 60 that did a short peace time stint in the early 60's and one who did a peacetime stint in the mid 80's. Both of them have recently needed operations, the first a hernia operation (and false teeth to boot) and the other an appendix operation, and the VA took care of both of them for all their needs. My older friend even got 1200 dollars to help with bills. I don't know if it was through the VA but the VA helped him get it.
I'm glad for them ... good for them. Those kind of benefits are apparently no longer available to the military and from what I've seen ... haven't been for some time.

I know a lot of Vietnam era soldiers who have Posttraumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) and can't get any help with it ... NONE. I also know a lot of Vietnam era soldiers who were exposed to agent orange who now have Diabetes and other physical disorders related to that exposure ... but the VA refuses to help them.

I'm seeing more and more soldiers returning from the Middle East with the PTSD and to boot, their families lost everything while they were (illegally) deployed. No one is helping them and since the VA has decided it's just easier to declare them employable ... they can't even qualify for Welfare (like our "legal" Somalian immigrants/refugees ... for example) ... they are basically just stuck out on the street.

Through getting only "combat pay" while deployed, their families could no longer afford their house and vehicle ... lost it all. The spouse and children go on Welfare for a short while and when the soldier returns home ... injured and unable to work or perhaps not so apparently injured, but suffering from PTSD ... the VA finds ways of poo-pooing their problems and setting them free. The ones that don't kill themselves over it ... never get better and will never make it.

But none of that has anything to do with what is now going on in North Korea except that those who think our military is so great and could kick a$$ over in North Korea are probably sadly mistaken. I guess only time will tell.

Right now, they are getting their a$$es kicked and the VA is kicking it further when they finally do return home.

OT ...
No matter what ... we still do not have the right to tell other sovereign nations how they can defend themselves ... most especially when we support the "bullies" of the Middle East ... the Israelis. They are the basic threat to peace in the Middle East. As long as we continue to support them ... we will have problems ... all over the world.
Show ALL Forums  > Politics  > North Korea fueling rocket for impending launch ... So what's the big deal?