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 buckmaker
Joined: 4/20/2009
Msg: 38
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Doing the math: 200/25/0Page 3 of 5    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5)
Here's my 2cents. This OP is probably a lot more considerate of these women than I could muster and he's not getting respect not because there's something wrong with him but with the broads on these sites. [I can hear the rants already]. Basically, there are an army of guys willing to jump through hoops and all the woman need do is show their boobs on this site and then show up for free stuff.
In all my years I never used these sites before and got great women (really) who were anxious to take care of me.
My conclusion is that if a man wants a serious woman, go to the mall, or grocery store or even the bars. At least there you'll either get a real conversation or lucky, but you won't have to write a dissertation and apply for jobs with a bunch of hoochies that want you to send their kids to college after their true love ran off with a waitress.
 buckmaker
Joined: 4/20/2009
Msg: 39
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Doing the math: 200/25/0
Posted: 5/1/2009 5:38:39 PM
One more thing, when you look at the women who are commenting here, they have all been on this site (probably many others too) for a least a year. Ergo, if [as they say] they want long-term relationships. What's up. With all the guys chasing em, and they're aren't taking the long term offers, then just maybe they want long term dates from whom they can pick and chose to get wild or get whatever else, that flatters
their vulturous vanities. Listen to Some Girls by the Stones. It says it all.
 buckmaker
Joined: 4/20/2009
Msg: 40
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Doing the math: 200/25/0
Posted: 5/1/2009 5:55:13 PM
After reading Ahoy there Dave's comments I confess he is on to something but, not quite hitting the mark for OP. Women are all the same in their reptilian programing, they want a confident man to sweep them off their feet. These sites force them to be rational about their grocery list of crap they want. My advice is get their number right away and if they wont, then don't waste time. On the first date start going for it immediately. In your case, nothing ventured nothing gained or your gonna lose anyway so try to get the nookie. You might be very surprised.
 4UMaybe
Joined: 8/3/2007
Msg: 41
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Doing the math: 200/25/0
Posted: 5/10/2009 10:00:42 AM
If you had a good time on the first date at the end of that date ask her for a second date. Let us know how that strategy works!!
 misszmsz
Joined: 5/31/2008
Msg: 42
Doing the math: 200/25/0
Posted: 5/10/2009 11:46:28 AM
So a guy walks into a nightclub/bar and there are 75 women there, realistically how many does he try to talk to? He will probably find 10% - only 7.5 women to which he asks to dance/talk all night long. He finds after spending a little bit of time with each he only wants to go out with one - which is a about 13.35% average.

If he wanted better results than that he must aim for 25% - which means he must attempt to talk to 18.75 women ( 1 of every 4 females in the place) - using his average of 13.35% he will find only 2.5 women he realistically wants to ask on a first date beyond the club.

Your figures of 200 and meeting 25 results in a 26.7% ratio. Remember you are not meeting these women in person, so the biggest factor of chemistry is out of the picture. With 25 women and a 10% average base you should have found at least 2.5 women of whom you met, would realistically go on a first date with you, beyond the first encounter.

Out of a year you have managed to meet with a new woman (25) about once every two weeks. To increase your results means you must try to meet with a new woman every week or better yet try to increase it by 25% or 2 meets a week average.
That would be 104 new women in a year. See where this is going?

The mistake you are making is that you are considering the first meeting a real date, and therein is the problem, you are being unrealistic with the results of your math. Not even the most beautiful woman/guy or top salesperson has a 50% closing ratio.

If you truly want a 12% return on effort - then every week you must meet with an online prospect or every month go to a place where there are 75 women, you talk to 7 and get a date with 1.

Of those 12 women at a 25% average, 3 would go on a second date with you.
Of those 12 women at a 10% average, 1 would go on a second date with you.

If your first ENCOUNTER with a potential romantic partner was in person and you ask them out on a date, statistically one would have a greater chance of a second date than if you are solely obtaining your leads from an online source.

Thinking that it is weird or depressing that 0% of 25 semi-blind encounters resulted in not one first date is seriously mis-calculated, but you do the math.

If your life depended on catching a fish every day to eat, you certainly would want to go fishing every day, at a spot and time when the fish are biting.
 terri368
Joined: 4/28/2009
Msg: 43
Doing the math: 200/25/0
Posted: 5/10/2009 12:53:09 PM
the easiest way to get a 2nd date is ask :D If you like a woman, dont wait 3-4-5 days then call her.. she's waiting for you to call and ask! And for the record.. Yes I will call a guy and talk to him and even ask him out on a date if I am interested in him just to see if the feeling is mutual if I dont hear anything from him in a day. I figure if I go out on a date and a guy doesnt call me back the next day to talk to me or even ask for a 2nd date then 'hes just not that into me' which means move on.. because they arent worth your time anyhow and yes, there is someone out there that will be eventually.
 setuid
Joined: 9/5/2008
Msg: 44
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Doing the math: 200/25/0
Posted: 6/11/2009 8:59:39 PM

If you had a good time on the first date at the end of that date ask her for a second date. Let us know how that strategy works!!


Well, I tried some of the suggestions here, in various ways... and it didn't work.

In fact, I went on a date on Sunday with a woman who was very close to my age, we had a great time just walking on the beach and chatting, then went out to get some food, and had laughs and some good chemistry and tension the whole time.

She openly admitted that she's been on a LOT of dates, and hands-down, I was the best first-date she's ever had, ever... from online dating.

I was joking around with her about how I still haven't had a second date, and some of my other dating horror stories. She reflected that back by saying she's never had a bad date in her life. She "screens" her dates pretty well beforehand. She also said that if she noticed something in me, in my personality that would want her NOT to have a second date, she would tell me. She said it must be the "stupid chicks you're finding" that aren't compatible and can't see what a great guy I am.

At the end of the night, we had a very long hug... the kind of hug where neither person wants to be the first to let go. She reiterated that she would definitely love to get together, and SOON. I told her I'd call her tomorrow and we could figure it out. I gave her a gentle kiss on the lips and thanked her for a great end to a very busy week and weekend.

On the way home, I texted her because I forgot to tell her something. The next day, we exchanged a couple of calls and emails. She was (as she put it) "VERY pleased" with the level of openness and communication so far.

I told her my basic schedule for the week, free times and work times and all of that, and asked her if she'd like to get together on Thursday to do something... 24 hours go by without any response. Then she emails me back and says she "can't guarantee" Thursday. 24 more hours go by, and she ignores part of an email where I mentioned catching up Thursday again. She did it again tonight in a brief text where I congratulated her on securing a new job she applied for.

It's now Thursday night, and she's now vanished completely. There's no second date in the future for this one either. I tried to match her level of communication, so it wasn't over-bearing or smothering. I tried to secure the second date pretty quickly. I tried to be a gentleman, but also cross the line with some overt physicality (without shoving my tongue down her throat).

All of that failed.

What bothers me the most, is that SHE was the one who said she couldn't see why anyone would not want a second date with me. And yet as it all played out, she did exactly what the rest of them did... said she wanted a second date, said she was VERY interested in me, and vanished too.

Lied to. Deceived. Manipulated again... Back to the drawing board I go.

 Lovelygirl88
Joined: 6/25/2008
Msg: 45
Doing the math: 200/25/0
Posted: 6/12/2009 1:19:46 AM
OP, it is now June 09, been about 2 months since you posted this problem. If I were you I would be "frustrated" too. But don't "hate" women, yet. To be with women, you have to learn to like / love them ( women in general). There is a post by a guy here that said that.
I am not suggesting that you need to be a player to get merely a second date.

I read your profile, and think maybe you'd consider :
* Your body language when you meet these girls.
* Your genuine sincerity, attention, curiousity toward the date.
* Why would you want a second date ( just for statistic), how about your real feeling ( sparks)?. Maybe of all these women, YOU did not find real sparks? or your heart belongs to a woman already?.
* Body arts?, geographic?
I am sure a guy will sail over seven seas for a woman he truly likes.
 seekndestroy
Joined: 8/20/2008
Msg: 46
Doing the math: 200/25/0
Posted: 6/12/2009 2:34:17 AM
dude... you obviously are getting the dates so that's not the problem....

now what you have to do is just try to "get some".... dont worry about a second date just make the first one count !!!!!

worse that can happen is she turns you down.... which is pretty much all you've gotten so far......and if she calls you to "meet" again, you will have met your goal.

dont worry...it not like you are gonna give us a bad rep.... we are already used to being reminded that we are ALL nothing but players on a regular basis....


 seekndestroy
Joined: 8/20/2008
Msg: 47
Doing the math: 200/25/0
Posted: 6/12/2009 3:06:01 AM
hey scat.... let the poor man be now !!!!

some people have an affinity for banging their heads against a particular spot on the wall over and over..... and over and over again !!!!!

some things are what i refer to as "self correcting" ... like crossing the freeway during rush hour or riding a bike with a blindfold.... or dating!!!

unfortunately not everyone gets the "self correcting" concept !!!

 setuid
Joined: 9/5/2008
Msg: 48
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Doing the math: 200/25/0
Posted: 6/12/2009 6:58:48 AM

Perhaps the text message you are sending is not a strong enough interest.


If I've felt some good chemistry and they've indicated they felt the same for me, I usually send something like: "I had a great time tonight, and am definitely interested in getting together again. Have a good night, sleep well :)" , or similar.


The men who were interested in me seriously enough for a second date did take the intiative and either CALL the next day, or at the very least email.


I do this as well, at least within the first 24 hours, 48 at the longest (depends on business schedules and all that). I never let a good one slip through my fingers if we both had a good time on the first date, or got along well in initial phone calls or emails.


I think you are victim of psycho babble like "He is not that in to you" where it is beaten into women's heads to let the man do the chasing.


I'll chase, up to a point. I won't "cling" or "stalk", if I don't see some sort of interest reciprocated back to me.

If I've set up the date, done all the preparation and driving, gone the extra mile (metaphorically), expressed my interest ON the date, after the date, and tried to get another date within the next day or two, keeping the lines of communication open... and I hear NOTHING back, I stop chasing. I won't run around and around and around, sending dozens of emails or texts or calls... if there is ZERO reciprocation. And I'm talking about reciprocation from women who had genuine interest, or lied about having genuine interest.


You know those 25 women. I suggest you contact them again with a friendly email and ask them where you dropped the ball and see if they would like a second meeting or date.


See, that's just it.. I didn't drop the ball, they did. I held the ball, dribbled it down the court, drove to the net... and found nothing there when I got to the other side.

Occam's Razor suggests that these women were either:

a.) abducted by aliens, with no justification for their silence and ignoring my attempts to communicate (even a "Had a great time, but I don't see anything more here for us" would be totally fine too)

b.) liars, feigning interest, when they really had none, and just wanted a fun night out without any intention to go further
 sweetest
Joined: 10/8/2007
Msg: 49
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Doing the math: 200/25/0
Posted: 6/12/2009 7:17:14 AM

Lied to. Deceived. Manipulated again... Back to the drawing board I go.

^^^We all experience this to varying degrees. This attitude will not be helpful for you going forward though.

You might recall that I was one who posted and advised on your thread several times. While you state that you took the advice...did you also try with more than one person? As a singular event, this date was a kind of litmus test wasn't it and perhaps pressure??? Have you had 2nd dates with others?

Unfortunately, the woman that you were with may have had competing interests or a declining interest in seeing you in the following days. And yes, some people are duplicitous. Some people are not good at stating where they are with someone on the spot...so they say what's appropriate, and what can get them away without having to lay it out there. That's always going to be there.

Don't give up. Get out there again.
Try to keep your expectations low always.
Kiss on the cheek after the date on a first date..but be affectionate throughout the date.
Get the next date agreed to on the first date.
Do not text after the date. Call her it's more intimate.

/setuid: send me an email-I can't because of your filters.
 ForRumOnly
Joined: 3/16/2009
Msg: 50
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Doing the math: 200/25/0
Posted: 6/12/2009 8:21:53 AM
The solution is undefined, because you can't divide by zero. I think you need to reformulate the problem.
 karma1160
Joined: 6/10/2008
Msg: 52
Doing the math: 200/25/0
Posted: 6/12/2009 9:43:48 AM
Try locking a second date in at the end of the 1st night maybe women are not getting as much of a feel good vibe from you as you think.
I suggest you do not tell people your aggravations with dating .

The power of suggestion is very strong.

If you tell someone that you have never been asked for a second date they will wonder why and go over your behavior with a fine tooth comb until they find something wrong with you.
 OutMind
Joined: 2/13/2007
Msg: 53
Doing the math: 200/25/0
Posted: 6/12/2009 1:30:47 PM
Dude you don't get it don't you?


I was joking around with her about how I still haven't had a second date, and some of my other dating horror stories.


Big, big mistake. It has been my experience that when you brag about how well or how bad your dating has gone, all they do is tag you as a "Serial Dater". They don't see it from your point of view that you failed, they see it from the point of view that you will continue to date and date. So the best thing to do is be nebulous, say "it's okay" and change the subject. If you keep nagging about it, they will see how much of a whinner you really are, and you are history. If you say how well you do, then you are a player. So avoid this topic other than to tell her "don't get mad when at the end of the date, you go to the dating site and we are both online."



my personality that would want her NOT to have a second date, she would tell me.


Yeah right. And you believe it? "Hi I think you are a cute guy and I find you as sexually attractive as my little brother or a small slug."
She is NOT going to tell you with words, but with things that are said or done between the lines. And I will show you.


She said it must be the "stupid chicks you're finding"


Which right there she is making up her mind that since she is not a "stupid chic", she more than likely is not going to be interested in you.


we had a very long hug... the kind of hug where neither person wants to be the first to let go. She reiterated that she would definitely love to get together, and SOON.


You "hugged" and she said she reiterated she would like to see you soon. Don't you see what is going on? Actions, actions. If she kissed you and could not get her hands off you, this would have meant that. I've had women that have said the same thing, even kissed me and it panned into nothing. Yet I've had women that we go into a kiss fest, and well have told me that they would love to do something else but they don't believe in sleeping together on the first date, and they made sure that we got together again.

Dude, next time, be less polite. If she says that definitely she would like to see you again, in a funny way tell her that "maybe" you may call her maybe not. Give yourself some value, not like she is doing you a favor. Unfortunately this is what happened to you, she felt pity for you, so she told you what you wanted to hear.

And that is were it went wrong. You do not create pity or emotions of "I feel sorry for him." No. You create emotions of "Wow, I want to see that guy again. What did he mean by maybe. Will he call me? Will he not."

And stop being so negative. This is still a good learning experience. So move on.
 setuid
Joined: 9/5/2008
Msg: 54
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Doing the math: 200/25/0
Posted: 6/12/2009 1:40:03 PM

Dude, next time, be less polite. If she says that definitely she would like to see you again, in a funny way tell her that "maybe" you may call her maybe not. Give yourself some value, not like she is doing you a favor. Unfortunately this is what happened to you, she felt pity for you, so she told you what you wanted to hear.


So you're basically suggesting I do the exact opposite of what everyone else here is suggesting... and NOT call her within the next day, two days at the most, and NOT keep the lines of communication open. I should be aloof, mysterious, and a someone who "might" call her back, or might not.

Somehow I don't think that's going to work with any woman I want to keep around in my life. Hey, if it works for you, great... but that's not my crowd.
 OneMoreNutt
Joined: 3/31/2009
Msg: 55
Doing the math: 200/25/0
Posted: 6/12/2009 1:47:22 PM
You just need to take all of the women who are posting on this forum on a 1st date.. Then we can come back here and post "What does it mean when he says/does_________ .... ?" or "Is he really interested if _______?"

Maybe then you will get your answer.



 val0214
Joined: 5/7/2007
Msg: 56
Doing the math: 200/25/0
Posted: 6/12/2009 2:35:49 PM
OP,

First, forget the numbers.

Seriously. It may be the 201st date, but it's the first one with this woman and you so be fair about it. It's not fair to assign her that number.

** It only counts in marriage (wife number 4) then I have to question anyone over wife number 2 as to what these women were thinking or their motives and the man's issues.**

Also aside from the usual "be yourself" advice, rather than trying to make up for your shyness by being overly "polite". Have fun! Enjoy the experience "in the moment" rather than what the outcome would be. And if you "feel" the attraction DURING the date, mention an event that you would enjoy and think she may enjoy as well (concert, movie, art show) and ask her if she'd be interested. Yes, right smack dab in the middle of the date if you're both having a grand time.

If you're not sure, mention something more subtle like book readings on wednesdays at the cafe you're at and maybe she might enjoy it.

If she makes excuses but is vague, she's politely turning you down.

It's not personal. Sometimes, myself included, I need to step back and think through how I feel about someone when I'm not sure. Maybe something didn't sound genuine and I'm having doubts. Maybe she really is busy. Sometimes timing is off.

If you spend several days with no communication and then "touch base" it sounds like Ms. Thursday stood you up and this woman is your back-up.

On the other hand, if you want faster results.

Date a stalker with obsessive compulsive disorder after she's off her medication.

She'll do the chasing.
 kenfla38
Joined: 1/31/2006
Msg: 57
Doing the math: 200/25/0
Posted: 6/12/2009 3:11:40 PM
I agree with some of the above advice, I also strongly disagree with some of the above advice.


Out of those 200 women, I've managed to arrange a first date with about 25 of them.


First, HOLD YOURSELF TO A HIGHER STANDARD... You're making it sound like YOU were lucky enough to talk to 200 women... and that YOU were lucky enough to arrange 25 dates out of the 200 contacts (would you have really wanted to meet all 200 of the women you talked to??) ... and then that YOU couldn't get a second date (as if you tried with all 25 ?? maybe you did), etc....

BE MORE SELECTIVE. Only a very few women are going to potentially be a good match for you (or any particular person)... YOU should take it into your power that YOU are going to decide who might have real potential, and who might not. Start communication and/or ask out only those who you feel have real potential... Be confident (but not****) believing that SHE should is equally fortunate to have the opportunity to meet you. It's a 2 way street. Most of your dates you're just not going to have the right chemistry with (such is life). For those where you think you do (maybe 5 out of those 25 at the most), ask them out again (next subject).

2nd Date:
..... I have to disagree with many who suggested that you ask a girl/woman for a second date before the end of the first date... OF COURSE, everyone wants to know where they stand...but NOT KNOWING makes you seem that much more desirable and "valuable" in their eyes... Women are often going to tell you what you want to hear in that situation because you've backed them into an uncomfortable corner (which also makes you seem too anxious and/or desperate). Play it "cool" and confident. Would George Clooney try to get a time, day, and place commitment for a second date on a first date?? Nope. If the date went well and he wanted to see her again, he'd leave her "wondering" and she's get a call the next day. Not that any of us are George Clooney, but you get my drift.... Ask yourself what would a very self-confident person do in this situation... THEN DO IT.

FORGET the text messages and Emails after a first date... You've already advanced beyond that and it'll be perceived as weak, timid and/or a friendly "blow off" if that's how you attempt to re-establish communications after meeting in person. Let HER be the one wondering how the date went and if you're going to call... Call her the next day or day after at the latest and ask her if she'd like to join you at (where-ever) next weekend.

Be confident... Give her the impression that you're interested but that if she's not, you have MANY other options. Self-confidence is attractive and lack of self-confidence is not.

Best wishes.
 val0214
Joined: 5/7/2007
Msg: 58
Doing the math: 200/25/0
Posted: 6/12/2009 8:06:43 PM
Kenfla,

You're advocating ACTING "cool" aka playing a part/games.

He's already doing that and it backfired.

Nuff said.
 EdwardPartSix
Joined: 4/6/2007
Msg: 59
Doing the math: 200/25/0
Posted: 6/12/2009 8:21:10 PM
The overriding theme of everyone's advice is to grow some sack and get what you want. You are basing every decision you make on whether whatever girl is interested in you. This is a very passive way to live. If you are interested in a girl, make a move. Don't worry about the texts, or the phone calls, or how much contact you are having - make your decisions based on what you want with the woman. If she rejects you she rejects you, but right now you seem content waiting for a girl to chase you, instead of the other way around.
 El_Mariachi
Joined: 4/21/2007
Msg: 60
Doing the math: 200/25/0
Posted: 6/12/2009 9:05:44 PM

This is the sad and **SICK** thinking, values, principles, actions, and typical way of today's female in going about the selection, dating process. The "average", "decent", "hard working", "really nice guy" is just simply NOT GOOD ENOUGH for today's "modern" feminist female. They are counseled, advised, and admonished that he MUST be up to standard, like the standards set in Beverly Hills and on Rodeo Drive!!


The quickest way to become someone I do not like is for a person to "counsel", "advise" and "admonish" me about what I should want in a man or what my standards should be. I already know what they should be. And lucky for me (and any of you who may at some time be interested in me) very rare is the man who cannot meet those standards.

The options are plentiful when you're the rational type.
 GoofBall311
Joined: 5/4/2009
Msg: 61
Doing the math: 200/25/0
Posted: 6/12/2009 9:33:31 PM
It means you have no game. Get some.
 OutMind
Joined: 2/13/2007
Msg: 62
Doing the math: 200/25/0
Posted: 6/15/2009 3:05:25 PM

I should be aloof, mysterious, and a someone who "might" call her back, or might not.
Somehow I don't think that's going to work with any woman I want to keep around in my life. Hey, if it works for you, great... but that's not my crowd.




"It means you have no game. Get some."


Obviously the OP is not interested in getting some game. I think he is more interested in coming to the forums and b itch about what never seems to happen. Well, if the OP continues doing what he does, he will continuously get the same result.
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